firstdivision

1 hour ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

And will again raise the elephant in the room.

Home fans behind both goals. 

 

 

I’m absolutely sick to death of seeing away fans celebrating (in the Atyeo). Stick them in a corner or up high where we can’t see or hear them. But better still - starting winning some home matches so they have nothing to shout about. 

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW, I think LJ’s “squad” was miles better than Nige’s “squad”.  If you put best team v best team that would be a good debate.  But I posted LJ’s squad in an earlier post (or other thread) and I think it is massively superior in its individual players, but importantly it’s depth.

I honestly don’t think comparing LJ with Nige can lead to a conclusive verdict, apples and pears really.  But it’s a forum and it provoked a good discussion, that’s the main thing.

Sorry, thought you were from your posts, even if you haven’t said so. Apols if not.

re Alternatives, of course there’s always alternatives.  You or I could take on the job, or maybe partner up?

Back to reality, and your point, I’m not a subscriber to “if you can’t name a replacement, you can’t have an opinion” viewpoint, it’s why I often talk in terms of manager names by type, e.g. a Warne-type, an Ainsworth-type, a Duff-type, because availability is unknown by the likes of us, cost to dismiss Nige, cost to compensate new manager’s old club, etc.

Its a tough period at the mo’.

I’m just a patient bloke and prepared to watch how things go.  If we played like Boxing Day every week, I’d be worried.  But I think overall we will be ok.

Really interested in tonight’s performance, although digressing from your point.

 

Apology accepted. 
We were ok tonight. A more logical team selection, thank god. Solid performance. Largely unattractive game. Millwall looked ordinary but they do some things very well, generally the ugly things.
Good to see Antoine back, too. He’s not quite at the level yet but he created one great chance, nearly scored and was a pest after a disjointed first 30. I nearly always select him in my team. I have King nowhere near it and I don’t have Weimann as wing back if I can help it. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, a thought provoking post from a new angle.  Guess what?  It provoked thought and responses with great maturity and thought from the likes of @Oléand @The Constant Rabbit, but because they challenged @Harry’s point of view (and your want of Nige Out, you don’t like it.

There are some great responses on both sides of the argument across OTIB at the mo’, but why are certain OTIB posters trying to shut down opposing views.  Debate / discuss what you like about Harry’s post, that’s the right way to engage.

 

Who says I want NP out, Dave? I have never said that. I’m sceptical about his time as manager, yes. I don’t particularly like his demeanour.  I wouldn’t have given him a three-year contract 18 months ago. But please find where I’ve written that I want him out. Go on. 

I honestly don’t know the right course of action. I debate it with myself every day. What I do find puzzling is the unswerving faith in him from some. It feels almost cultish at times. Just because I praised Harry’s post, people get their y-fronts in a twist. So be it. 

I’ll be at Millwall tonight hoping we can get three points, like I was at  the WBA game on Monday. I hope everyone on here will be joining me.

I didn’t boo on Monday. I didn’t shout ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’. I didn’t shout ‘we want Pearson out.’ 
What does make me laugh, though, is the ‘there’s no alternative’ narrative. There’s always an alternative. No one knows whether the alternative will be better or worse. But they assert that they do. I don’t know and nor do you. 
 

20 hours ago, Harry said:

You are of course correct Rob. You’re right that I have framed my argument in a certain way, but as you’ll see from my opening line, I’ve really done it to try to spark a slightly different debate - ie one which asks “should Pearson be getting much more from this squad”. So I intentionally made it more of a ‘trolling’ type post and you correctly sussed it

I think as a club, they have been pushing the ‘bad finances’ narrative and this is disguising Nigel’s performance (or even protecting him). 
I guess my point was that Nige has a relatively decent squad when comparing to 3 years ago. I genuinely think, aside from Brownhill, every other member of that previous squad was not fawned over by the fanbase, and the majority of the fanbase were happy to see the majority of them gone. 
Todays team still contains 6 of that team. 5 of those 6 arguably being the more respected/liked by the fanbase of that previous squad. Add Semenyo, Scott, Conway, James, Naismith, Atkinson, Klose, Williams, and I genuinely wonder why this manager isn’t getting more out of them. 
I 100% acknowledge that finances are a huge problem for us. But I refuse to believe that this is the sole reason we’re in a relegation fight. And that’s the general narrative (excuse) coming from the club and the manager. The players we have are plenty decent enough to not be involved in a relegation scrap. As a club they need to quit with the “woe is me” narrative. It’s portraying a loser-mentality. 

You really need to stop this, Harry - putting thought-provoking posts on here that go against the ‘woe is us’ orthodoxy. 

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yeah, having an open mind is too  much like hard work, isn't it? 

No. Not really. I find it easy to be open minded. It was just that I got up at 5am for work this morning and there was a lot to read. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

What did you think of @Oléresponse and others?

Exhausting. 

16 hours ago, Harry said:

Well, I say busting myths. Maybe I’m more trying to stir the pot. But here goes anyway….

At the start of the covid break, March 2020, we had Lee Johnson in charge. 37 games had been played. We were 7th. 1 point off the playoffs. Since the turn of the year, we’d won 5, drawn 2 and lost 5. 
 

In those 12 games of the calendar year to date, the following players were regulars :

Bentley, Kalas, Baker, Dasilva, Massengo, Weimann, Wells. 
 

7 players who have all been part of Pearson’s squads in the 22 months he’s been here. 
 

We keep hearing about the massive job Pearson has had to do. We hear that he’s had to get rid off bad eggs, overpaid primadonnas and not have any funds to bring his own players in. 
 

7 of the team that had us in 7th place after 37 games have been at his disposal. Sadly Bakers time was cut short, but he was available for Pearson for a fair while during his tenure. 
 

Players who have left the club under Pearson are :

Szmodics, Elliason, Morrell, J Smith, Bailey Wright, Matty Taylor, Korey Smith, Rory Holden, Adelakun, Diedhiou, Baldwin, Opi Edwards, Gilmartin, Hunt, Lansbury, Hinds, Mariappa, Paterson, Rowe, Walsh, Watkins, Wallocott, Nagy, Nurse, Palmer, O’Dowda, Janneh, Bakinson, Britton, Cundy. 
 

Of all of those gone, 30 listed, not a single one has gone to a higher ranked division and not a single one has been a success anywhere since. 
Of that list, you could probably get an argument for Paterson as being a decent player here, Diedhiou was generally pretty useless but for the odd goal and had cult status, Korey had a good career here but was on the wane, and Eliasson had a “good cross on him” but little else. 
Of all the others, there probably aren’t many fans who could put up a good argument for why they should have stayed at City and in most cases the majority of the fanbase were happy to see them go. 
 

So, let’s disregard all the financial arguments. Johnson had money and Pearson hasn’t. Yes, I get it. 
But the squad that Johnson ended with here in March 2020 contained 7 of the same squad Pearson has had at his disposal and 30 other players which no one really wanted here anyway and were not bothered when they left. 

Pearson has managed to replace those 30 unwanted players with Semenyo (a sought after talent), Scott (a much sought after talent), Conway (a potentially sought after talent, Atkinson (a £1.6m centre back), James & King (2 of his own studs who’ve won a premier league), Naismith (the player of the season at a team which got to the playoffs), Klose (a man with recent prem experience and promotion from this league).

So, the question is, Johnson got that bunch of players, most of which no fans really wanted and who have done nothing of note since leaving City, to 7th in the league, whilst Pearson has had 7 of the regulars from that Johnson team plus his own additions of generational talents and premier league players. So how did Johnson manage to get what could be easily argued as a worse team man for man into 7th place and nearly into the playoffs, whilst Pearson hasn’t managed to string any kind of form together over a 22 month stretch with arguably a better squad? 
 

I really feel that we are over-egging the impact the financial situation is having on Pearson’s job. Yes, the financial situation is very real and he hasn’t had a great deal to play with, but the squad now is arguably better man for man than the one Johnson had. Should Pearson be getting much more out of this squad than a record of 24-19-41, a 28.5% win rate, when Johnson was getting a 46% win rate from a worse bunch of players who needed to all be removed from the club!
 

Personally, I think the bloke is getting away with murder. 

You do realise there is far too much common sense and logic in this post. 

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I know it was a really poor attempt at humour, but even you must see that trying to draw any parallel between us & Norwich is simply ridiculous?

Eustace at Birmingham would surely be the better argument or even Ince at Reading, if you’re trying to make the case?

Probably this is all lost on you though..

I’ve literally no idea what you’re talking about, Graham.  

15 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Norwich, 5th in the league sack there manager.

Meanwhile here at Bristol City, Nigel Pearson with a 26% win rate, can't win at home, can't play players in their correct positions, seems to be unsackable. 

Quite right too. He’s still cleaning up the mess created by the Visigoths in the 4th century. 

‘So the excuse of poor inheritance is being used too often to given NP an excuse.’

Bingo. 

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is where it’s worth reading beyond the headline! 

The art of effective communication, Dave, is that your message is clear. There was enough ambiguity in what he said for supporters to infer he was having a bit of a go. For all  his ‘blame me’ rhetoric, he hates being criticised. He always wants to jab back because he is naturally spikey.

It’s starting to feel like the last days of Rome. Dreadful performance, admittedly against a decent side: poor team and squad selection, odd substitutions and two more mistakes leading to goals, one of them basic. If O’Leary had come for the through ball, he could have a post-Christmas G&T and still got there. 

 

7 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Whist true, I think that's as much to do with timing as anything else. This isn't the first time that he's spoken immediately after a bad result and been awkward, some would say rude, but then at the next press conference a few days later been on good form, happy to engage and providing some real insight.

Totally. That was my point. There was an air of contrition about proceedings, the need to get the fans back onside. 

I thought one of the most interesting aspects of the press conference (and there was a lot in there) was that he was prepared to engage. He was much friendlier in his approach - less tough guy - almost as if he realised that he needed to play the ball not the man, by which I mean speak to the fans, not try to belittle the questioner.
It’s basic media management, which he too often struggles to adhere to because he a) has low tolerance levels b) gets too frustrated or c) is too stubborn. 

Fans should watch the interview - mainly after the Radio Bristol interview bit. I accessed it through Twitter. It’s on YouTube.

NP was in a mood to engage. One of those days when you could ask him almost anything without him biting off the head of the person asking the question. Loads in there. 
Eg Atkinson back in contention for Boxing Day.  Rangers haven’t made a bid for Semenyo. Six or seven offered new deals. We clearly want to trade in January. Also addressed the growing fans’ discontent with him (although I would have liked to see Richard Forrester delve a bit more here because he was in the mood to answer.)

Anyway, 25 minutes of it. Have a go for yourselves. 

On 19/12/2022 at 00:33, Davefevs said:

I wouldn’t have recruited Wilson because I would’ve been going for a back four!

Ideally I’d have been looking at (without hindsight) something like this:

GK - Bentley

RB - Tanner (plus a different RB recruited)

CB - Kalas

CB - Atkinson (plus another CB recruited as Kalas has had injuries)

LB - Pring

CM - James

CM - Rinomhota 

CM - Williams (perm the 3 CMs with Scott, Massengo)

AM - Weimann

CF - Martin

CF - Semenyo

I wouldn’t have recruited Sykes, nor offered Klose a new deal.  I’d have recruited another CB and then made my mind up about Vyner.  I think it was a call on who we signed first - Rinomhota or Naismith, we couldn’t get both.  We got Naismith and that dictated other things like Wilson.

So a bit of a 4312, or at times one true DM in a 4132.

I agree. The Sykes recruitment was a puzzle when we had enough cover there and not much cash. Surely we had other priorities. I’m not sure he’s that good either. 
I wouldn’t have renewed Andy King’s contract and probably not Klose’s. Is Klose’s new contract one or two years, Dave? I seem to remember there is an option for an extra year.  I hope not (unless the club has it, not the player). 

1 hour ago, B-Rizzle said:

Pearson loves talking about trust. He might be able to trust King as a person but he can’t trust him to defend a high ball, that much is evident.

Don’t care what Atkinson/ Klose have done. Continually playing King at CB is suicide. Man has lost the plot. 

Pearson out.

‘Pearson loves talking about trust. He might be able to trust King as a person but he can’t trust him to defend a high ball, that much is evident.’

One of the best comments I have read on here following NP’s interview. 

Looking forward to seeing NP trust King under Millwall’s high-ball barrage on 29 Dec.

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Geoff Eltringham is the joint worst ref in the Champ along with Gavin Ward.  Don’t bring Keith Stroud into the conversation, they aren’t fit to lace his boots.

Not using him as the excuse today, two poor goals conceded cost us 3 points, but he loses control of games so easily.  You can see why he’d been demoted to lg1/2 this season.  You start seeing bad tackles go in because he frustrates both sets of players.

 

Yes, Dave. He was as bad as the two goals we conceded. 
I saw your thread defending Andy King’s selection as a back-three defender. I said last week to a friend that sooner or later that selection was going to cost us. Sooner, obvs.

Where is Rob Atkinson? You said he might be ill. My hunch is that he’s still paying off his debt  for Lincoln. 
With a largely fully-fit squad, we can afford to keep selection simple.  

Poor game. Until the 88th minute, Stoke had two chances, both gifted to them by a bloke who is not a central defender. Meanwhile, we have a perfectly good central defender not in the 18. I don’t understand it. Unless someone tells me Rob Atkinson is, for some reason, unavailable. He seems to have been out of favour since the Lincoln game despite doing well for us generally. 
Seem familiar? See Cam Pring. Who surprise surprise is not doing too badly now he’s in the team. 
And how does Chris Martin make the 18 when we have Semenyo and Bell to come on? 
 

21 hours ago, Betty Swallocks said:

When was the last time City & England played on the same day? 

Southend 0 City 2 in a L1 promotion season in the late 90s on the day England drew in Italy to qualify for the World Cup. That’s my best guess. 

Iran remind me of us playing at Birmingham. 

San Bell always looked tentative to me in the first team. He’s lacked conviction.
There was another classic example at Boro where he had the chance to play in Wells or drive on in the box and have a shot. It was one of our few dangerous attacking moves in the second half. He under hit his forward pass and we lost a great attacking position. 

But he also showed a beautiful touch when he killed a high ball on the left touchline. He was then cynically fouled as he ran towards the box. (We, inevitably, made absolutely nothing of the free kick.) That moment showed he, perhaps, does have what it takes.

I hope he can find some belief when he steps up. To me, he’s not looked ready. But youngsters can make big leaps in a short space of time. 

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

1) Pearson Stays
2) Get Behind The Team - So We Stay Up This Season
3) Judge The Manager After The Summer  - After The Clear Out
4) Understand Our Situation

1 Pearson goes.

2 Find someone who can inspire and organise.

3 Move on from something that hasn’t worked before it’s too late.

4 Don’t grimly accept the lot circumstances have handed you. 
 

The other side of the argument to consider - just for balance. Stick or twist? I’m not entirely sure there is a clear right answer at the moment. Perhaps we literally can’t afford to change. If so, that’s an uncomfortable position to be in. Change always has to be an option. 


 

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

1) Pearson Stays
2) Get Behind The Team - So We Stay Up This Season
3) Judge The Manager After The Summer  - After The Clear Out
4) Understand Our Situation

1 Pearson goes.

2 Find someone who can inspire and organise.

3 Move on from something that hasn’t worked before it’s too late.

4 Don’t grimly accept the lot circumstances have handed you. 
 

The other side of the argument to consider - just for balance. Stick or twist? I’m not entirely sure there is a clear right answer at the moment. Perhaps we literally can’t afford to change. If so, that’s an uncomfortable position to be in. Change always has to be an option. 


 

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This is where I am too, pretty much.

When the accounts come out later this week (hopefully) we can see how big a mess it is.  Contracts have to be honoured…this summer all the pre-Pearson players are OOC bar Joe Williams.  But that doesn’t necessarily mean we can mad either.  The losses still hang around because of the 3 year cycle, unless the new FFP rules become clear and give us a get-out!  It’s quite possible next season’s squad is weaker than this.  That sounds implausible doesn’t it, but it could.

I think what we’ve witnessed is how important individual players are to us, or more importantly, the more of them you can get in the eleven, the better chance we have of competing.  Naismith, James, Weimann.  Naismith injured, James injured, but back, Weimann out of form, hopefully coming back to form.  Semenyo and Martin pairing were a big part of last season’s attacking success.  Both are nowhere near at that level.  Thankfully Conway and Wells have stepped into the breach.

Last night was a combo of a couple of youngsters not ready and the likes of King, Martin, Klose, Semenyo, Sykes, Dasilva not being good enough / in form enough to raise their games to cover others.  It shows zero depth.

Much as I think the WC is coming at a good time, I do worry that giving the players a holiday is too good for them / some of them.  Nige needs to galvanise what he has over the next month.  Could really do with getting something Saturday.  No shit Sherlock.

 

Yes, a team that has three over-the-hill old men and two not-ready youngsters is likely to find it difficult against a competent, well-organised team. I saw the side last night and thought that midfield two looks very thin. Plus Antoine looks out of form/short of confidence. Daft to play him as wing back on Saturday. 
 

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Low on a yellow too.

Harsh as it is…welcome to proper men’s football Joe.

Only Scott and Conway (eg that goal at Millwall) have looked anything like ready when we’ve played the academy youngsters in the last couple of years. I say ‘only’ - they are excellent young players. But playing in the first team clearly doesn’t make you a first-team player. 

6 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Hmm Maths not good.

We lose, West Brom and Blackpool win, we are in the bottom three.

You’re right. I’m wrong.