NickJ
-
Posts
5245 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
6
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Store
Events
Posts posted by NickJ
-
-
As for you, I haven't made personal insults about you..
Your original post is indeed an attempt to attack me, not my opinion.
Don't do it.
Plenty of people on this thread made personal insults against OUR manager and really should be ashamed of themselves, irrespective of if he's good bad or indifferent.
My opinion based on fact is SC is 70% better than our previous manager. Not saying he's the answer, who knows (certainly not our board BTW) but anything was always going to be an improvement.
-
You must be his agent or related to him... get over yourself ffs.
Don't like the personal insults at a decent bloke who happens to be in charge of OUR club so I'm sticking it in.
You get over yourself, resist the urge to make it personal v me, and we will get on just fine. FFS.
-
He was right!!!
Yes and the pro rata points for the season has now jumped to 61 points which makes SC's record 70% better than SOD's.
FACT
-
18% thought he was a good manager
82% thought he was a poor manager ( and they are roughly evenly split between - poor but got the job done and bad good riddance)
That's the man we have in charge
Yes according to you (you're wrong) 82% (32 out of 38) of Forest fans in that thread think he's a poor manager, therefore we have to think that as well. Yeah right.
Let me know which 6 posts are the ones that doesn't say he's a poor manager, then I will prove you wrong with the others that also don't say that.
-
"We have improved results wise 55% under Cotterill which is as good an improvement as we could have expected."
Steve should change his Blue Stratos cologne for some 'Sex Panther' by Odeon, 60% of the time it works...every time.
And it's made with bits of real Panther.
See what i did there?
Don't have a clue what you did there.
Must admit it made me laugh though.
Are you saying, Cotterill is a winner?
-
So what are we saying here then Nick? We were shit under O Driscol, but we are slightly less shitter under Cottrell?
We were extremely shit not to say boring as **** as you know! under O'Driscoll, who is a good coach but not an inspirational leader and manager. We have improved results wise 55% under Cotterill which is as good an improvement as we could have expected.
Sorry Nick, I have been mistaken as others have and was referring to the 13 page thread on the Forest Forum as the "infamous" one on SC.
It's a truly shocking read!
Well mate Burnley fans in the main like and respect Cotterill, Notts County and Cheltenham could hardly say anything other than he's a good manager, and on the thread I highlighted the majority of Forest fans likewise.
A Bristol City fan asked Forest what they think of Cotterill. Are they, given our history with them, going to:
a) "congratulations Bristol we really like you lot and you've got a great manager" OR
b) take the opportunity to have a pop
and even if the entire country especially Forest hate him, as you have said is the case Will, which I've proved is not the case, does that mean we have to too, while he is OUR manager?
Oi Cotterill we are Bristol City fans we don't have your sort here we like our managers to be MENSA members so **** off you thick wide boy.
Yes that's really pulling together congratulations everyone involved in that, sorry but I really don't get that mentality.
I'm not saying Cotterill is a great manager, I really don't know. But he seems to be respected as being an honest hard working type capable of getting more out of teams than is expected, who says odd things sometimes - so what, don't we all.
And he is OUR manager!
-
The thread people are reffering to is the 13 page one with 100's of replies when we asked about his appointment, not the one you seem to have selected that seems to have only a handful. On the first page alone their are 22 scathing comments on SC and 1 person who is neutral - and the thread carries on pretty much in that vein for another 13 pages.
Maybe you should work in Government - with your selective stat collection to spin a general opinion into the complete opposite.
You are incorrect.
This is the thread I highlighted:
http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24192&start=1
KId and Alex decided to reply by reference to a completely different thread.
Now that's what I call spin.
-
Read the thread that has 300+ replies on the Forest forum if you're going to claim that they don't mind him!
That thread was started by a City fan who asked Forest what they thought of him. Given the history between us and Forest, I should imagine that was seen as an open invitation to take the piss out of us. As soon as the first few got in with cheap digs, the herd effect took over. I've noticed that on forums not too many have the balls to go against the vocal minority, but when they do, the previously silent majority will get involved.....
-
I'm not going to get into the mud slinging, name calling, cock measuring or any other of the more competitive elements of this thread - but this one puzzles me - serious question.
I'm assuming you're right Nick - I haven't got the time to check in detail! But if that's the case, and if we're that much better now (I think you said 55% on another thread) then how come the other much quoted fact recently, namely that at the end of SOD's reign we were two points from safety, -3 GD and on the same number of games as all our rivals, and now we are two points from safety, -8 GD, and all our rivals have games in hand on us.
We are evidently in a worse position, table wise. I can't believe that the one game where we dint have either as a manager can make that much difference!
So, how come we are doing 55% better on results, but in a worse position in the table??
I'm not going to get into the mud slinging, name calling, cock measuring or any other of the more competitive elements of this thread - but this one puzzles me - serious question.
I'm assuming you're right Nick - I haven't got the time to check in detail! But if that's the case, and if we're that much better now (I think you said 55% on another thread) then how come the other much quoted fact recently, namely that at the end of SOD's reign we were two points from safety, -3 GD and on the same number of games as all our rivals, and now we are two points from safety, -8 GD, and all our rivals have games in hand on us.
We are evidently in a worse position, table wise. I can't believe that the one game where we dint have either as a manager can make that much difference!
So, how come we are doing 55% better on results, but in a worse position in the table??
Well I will guess its going to be because the teams at the bottom with us have also performed better. If that theory is correct, then the teams further up the table must have done worse.....
Which looking at the table, you can see is the case.
When SC took over, we were 16 points off the play of places (yes, ha ha).
If results had continued pro rata the same for all teams, you would have expected us to be by now 27 points off the play offs, whereas we are only 20 points away.
Bit of a rough and ready measure, but its clear there has been a bunching effect where most/all of the teams at the bottom have improved.
-
Indeed.
For 1 good comment about Cotteril are about 15 bad ones.
OK back from the pub suitably refreshed and I see that like Will, Alex has also been bunking off his maths lessons. Tut tut.
There are 38 posts on the thread in question.
I'd say they can be classified and counted as follows:
In praise of Cotterill for a reasonable job 13
Don't rate as manager but no hard feeling 6
Critical of Cotterill and OTIBesque insults 11
No comments on Cotterill 8
So in other words, 19 out of 30 (that's 63%) who expressed a view on Cotterill, do not despise him.
Or, at most, 37% (very different to 95% Will and very different to 15 out of 16 Alex) despise Cotterill, although none actually said anything like that.
So, Burnley like him, Forest don't mind him, lets see what Cheltenham and Notts County have to say tomorrow.
Tomorrow's sermon:
"How to draw Conclusions based on Fact"
-
Happy to discuss over a pint soon
Which is what I'm about to do now at my local I'm working too hard in amongst defending OUR manager's good name!
PS I have at least moved you from
- nothing at all good about him on the internet
to
- 95% despised
to
- massively outweighed
and even your latest position is still wrong I will chip away again tomorrow!
I'm about before and after Saturday send a text if you are I can impart more words of wisdom and for Harry I'm sure he's just itching to get involved in this ha ha
-
You gotta be pulling my plonker old boy!
That thread is 95% anti SC, as I said. There are several Forest fans on there who claim to have questioned watching football AT ALL with SC in charge!
And Im not getting all this OUR manager stuff?! Only cus SL is paying his wage. SC is about as mercenary as managers get - see Notts C and Pompey where he actually helped engineer his move to Forest!
Even if by some unlikely occurrence he had some success here, he'd be off in a shot!
He is OUR manager Will and whatever you or anyone else may have thought about the appointment, he should be supported. Of course he's a mercenary, that's his job, so are all managers and players. Doesn't mean SC isn't doing his best for us and believe me, he is.
And as much as I like you I cannot allow you to peddle untruths. The thread is not 95% anti SC, here are some more comments:
- Don't hate him. Job was a poisoned chalice at the time. Wish him well.
- He might not have been the most inspiring of choices but he was brought in to serve a purpose at a very difficult time for the club. He, along with the help of SO'D did that.
- No hate for him from me
- Kept his promise, kept us up and good luck to him in the future.
- did OK, we've moved on and so has he- wish him well.
- It was mission impossible for anyone at the time. Fair play to him for keeping us up, which was a task easier said than done.
- He came in done a job with someone else's team with some loans thrown in kept us up, pat on the back for that as i thought we were going one way, and then sacked as all owners want there own staff in sooner or later and as far as i'm concerned really the end of it. Never hated him but never loved him either.
- Think he and SOD could have been a great duo combination. Complemented each other strength and weaknesses well.
- I felt a tinge sorry for the guy, only because he had to work for the biggest pair of Muppets our club has ever seen since 1865.
- Cotterill achieved the best anyone could have asked of him when he came into the job.
- he is a nice enough bloke so have no personal grudge against him.
-
SC is absolutely despised by Forest fans, Nogbad.
Sorry mate but he is OUR manager and you are not correct!
Forest:
http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24192&start=1
Among the mainly complementary or at least respectful comments I particularly like:
As has already been said, he came in to a difficult situation. He realised he couldn't do it on his own, brought in a good coach and, with a bit of wheeling and dealing got the right bodies in and we stayed up.
Brought in good people - ironically SOD - to work with him. That's a strength and a sign of a good manager.
I like the common sense here:
He came in to keep us in the Championship and achieved just that. Some may argue that Sean O'Driscoll and the addition of Adlene Guedioura helped him achieve that goal, but Cotterill was the manager, the job got done under his tenure and he should have left with his head held high.
And this sums up quite well:
He inherited a mess...a thread bare squad, players with no confidence , injuries worked against him too...guys, the strike force that he had at his disposal is barely making the bench this year
Even the posters who criticise his management mainly recognize the difficult situation at Forest and in the main wish him well, so no, Forest supporters do not despise Cotterill.
-
It's difficult to find any comments on the internet praising SC, in fact most of the positive quotes about SC come from SC himself!
Behave Will.
Burnley:
Sample quotes:
He was Burnley manager for just over three seasons and....we always looked in with a chance of reaching the play offs
In his first season in particular it was remarkable given the size of the squad
Cotterill's third, and ultimately final, season got off to a great start. We were playing our best football in a long time and headed the league for a while
Given what he started with there is no doubt that he definitely improved the club
He will though be judged by many on results alone. We never did make a sustained challenge for the play offs, but he kept us in the second tier of English football for three years and that, looking back, was some achievement in, at times, difficult circumstances.
-
That's just a title Will. He was manager in all but name, he had ultimate responsibility for the playing staff.
At Forest he was number 2 and it worked.
Here he was number 1 whatever you call it.
He may be a coach, but he cannot manage, and part of his role irrespective of title, was to manage.
That was probably a failing of the board to think that one through, but when the board is led by somebody with little experience, predictably inevitable.
Anyway that's off my agenda, I'm just ****** off with SC being hammered while he is OUR manager.
-
He was despised at Forest due to his ridiculous, bullshit post-match interviews, his massive unjustified ego, his "direct" anti-football style of play, his lack of intelligence, persevering with tactics/players that don't work, bringing in physical "can do the dirty" types as opposed to play footballers with ability and nearly taking them down but for the saving grace of SOD coming in as coach.
Exactly, as coach Will. He isn't a manager.
A few random quotes from a Forest forum:
He should stick to being a coach or No.2. He'd be amongst the best around in those jobs instead of being a mediocre manager
I just think that he was too cerebral for the average footballer .. Lovely bloke but..............
That's what you get when your over cautious and your teams are boring as ****
He deserved to get sacked at Forest too. His boring over cautious football had us a single point worse off than this time this season
They are talking about O-Driscoll BTW.
-
Well this has been a cracking read
Manager says he's a 'Winner', people get the hump as we've lost
The 'Winner' bit is all about self confidence and belief, showing that this defeat was bobbins, and was unacceptable. Because people in general dont like, or dont like confidence and mislabel it as arrogance or Americanism when it's not. It's determination to put right what is wrong, succeeding inspite of defeat. Im a winner reaffirms that belief. Simple stuff
Indeed many of the 'great' philosophers and successful people in the world will generally say in order to succeed you must fail first. Ask James Dyson, Steve Jobs and so on.
Why people are using this to lambast is beyond me.
We will either survive or we wont, as long as we have a club and are still following some sort of 'plan' then yippee. The navel gazing, the visciousness and the complete Panic, for some is like a car crash to watch. Many of the posters who are pro SC predicted we'd be bobbins at the seasons start and said we'd struggle, irrespective. No one listened and people are instead looking for people to blame for this 'failure'
It was pretty obvious we'd have a hard season, we are having a hard season. It's not over and we CAN still do it.
Take a step back and assess after we are safe/relegated (delete as appripriate)
Makes for a more stable board and quits the guttersniping.
Nibor: you are an intelligent guy and your posts often make sensible points - albeit couched in a dry, superior, slightly sneery tone, which has probably irritated more people than any post match interview given by any manager.
You say I'm a hypocrite because I've criticised O'Driscoll but post here that I am bored of the whole SOD v SC endless roundabout. That is - to use one of your favourite expressions - a category error. I'll express it plainly: Yes I've been critical of the last manager but I now think it's time for the whole debate to move on. I'm trying not to reference him. What is important is what's going on now at the club.
Now to the thing you took umbrage at - as you always do when someone challenges your assertions. You think Cotterill's appointment was a bad one and fair enough, you can take that view, although I think it's too early to judge.
Those two points that you use as "major reasons" why he was wrong for the club are very weak however. He is a "divisive" figure who was "opposed" by the "majority of fans". First up, how did you carry out this survey? I don't remember getting a ballot paper. It's fair to say, his appointment was opposed noisily by a number of people on this board, but you can't extrapolate that to the fanbase as a whole. I suspect if you'd walked around the Gate on Steve's first match in charge and questioned every spectator you'd find some people with strong opinions, but the majority would say "let's see how he does" or "can't be as bad as the last bloke" and some would probably say "Steve who?"
There were people who raised objections to McInnes "not experienced enough"; Millen "the cheap option" even Johnson "not proven at this level". I can't remember Alan Dicks' appointment but I imagine there might've been some consternation then. Being a "divisive figure" doesn't mean you are a bad manager. When Stoke appointed Pulis for the second time, there were fan protests outside the ground, but of course when he proved successful those fans who would "never go again" drifted back. Bloody hell! The popular choice on this board seems to be Warnock who has "divisive figure" engraved on his cufflinks!
You also state, he was a bad appointment because his public pronouncements made him difficult for some fans to like. Bloody hell, when have we heard that before?!
My initial post on this thread said that post-match interviews - conducted in the heat of the moment as it were - do often contain some doozies. And 'I'm a winner' falls into that category. But really it doesn't matter what people say - he could've grabbed the Mic and said I Am A Dalek for all I care.
What matters is how he manages the team. We both can agree that there are some causes for concern there.
CRACKING POSTS
-
We've gone from not enough points per game to stay up, to not enough points per game to stay up. You can say anything you like with stats.
Of course you can say anything with stats, the question, is it both based on accurate facts, and is it meaningful.
Extrapolating points per game of both managers this season over a full term, SOD comes out at 36, and SC comes out at 56.
No team has ever stayed up with 36 points, and no team has ever been relegated with 56 points.
Hence, you are incorrect, points per game under the current manager is sufficient to stay up, the problem is the weight of the opening 19 games.
Or, if you like, as you might put it, SC is "bright enough" to keep us up, whereas SOD wasn't "bright enough" to keep us up.
I think 1) was entirely predictable given how many objected to his appointment and 2) is inaccurate. There was plenty of vitriol, venom and character assassination directed at SOD often by the very people bemoaning legitimate criticism of Cotterill as the same now. For every "dumb, bullshitter" comment about Cotterill there was at least one "boring, miserable" comment about SOD. I've even seen one poster who slated SOD for having a boring black country accent defend Cotterill on the basis that people only think he's dumb because of his accent. You could hardly make it up.
Many of the comments about SOD have been since he left, not while he was here.
I think you would be very hard pressed to assemble a collection of quotes about SOD with anywhere near as much vitriol and personal insults as I have reproduced in this thread.
-
For me the worrying thing about his career are he went to Stoke but resigned after 13 games, he went to Sunderland as asst mngr but him and the manager were sacked after 27 games, he had no managerial position for 2.5 years, he went to Notts County leaving after 3 months, and lasted only 9 months at Nottingham forest (getting a nice club record along the way of 10.5 hours of play without scoring at home (7 games or 2.5 months with no goals).
Even in a job with such a short life span as football management that is a worrying CV. I would never hire someone with that resume.
Cant argue with that as fact (although if I were SC I'd point out the win record at Notts County was 78%) however if for example I had a vendetta against Brian Clough I'd consider omitting Hartlepool, Forest and Derby, highlighting his record at Brighton and Leeds, and in keeping with the fanatical OTIB support I would feel obliged to say he was an egotistical tosser, a clown, a penis and clueless.
-
2
-
-
I assume you went around the forum picking people up the O'Drosscoll name that is even more hilarious than my David Brent/Mike Bassett comment?
The significant difference between the criticism of SOD and now SC are:
1) Those of SC started from day one, whereas at least SOD was given the courtesy of an opportunity to prove he was a failure
2) Those at SC have been full of personal venom, vitriol and character assassination to a degree thankfully not directed at SOD.
That is my essential point.
-
When you've got either of those problems you've got a bad appointment but both together in a relegation battle makes it terrible. The board dropped a giant 3.5 year bollock on this one and no amount of hypocritical forum defence is going to change that, particularly when results are pretty much unchanged, signings poor and performances maybe even trending downward.
Apologies however I missed the glaring error in the above, namely that results are in fact 55% better under SC, to date.
-
You sound like an upset 13 year old.
So yes, egotistical b*******. I personally can't see how that is even in doubt.
As for the '50% David Brent, 50% Mike Bassett' line I'm glad you found it hilarious,
I would happily have told him that referring to himself as a winner.....was 100% egotistical b*******.
You can't help yourself can you, but, I put good money on you wouldn't even say that last one face to face, and if I were SC I'd invite you along and put that to the test.
In amongst the personal insults of your previous post there were some reasonable points but why you feel compelled to attempt to publically insult the man who is on OUR SIDE I'm sorry but I just cannot comprehend.
-
1
-
-
Haha, superb. If pointing out that Steve Cotterill has been guilty of spouting b******* in the media throughout his managerial career gets me a place in the 'hall of shame' then at least I won't be lonely as I'm hardly unique in pointing that out.
By pointing it out, I'm not even making any judgements or criticising his personality
In point of fact your description was "egotistical bollocks" and in a separate post hilariously thought he was "50% David Brent 50% Mike Bassett".
In my judgment that is indeed making judgments, unnecessarily personal ones, on the guys personality.
Why would you feel the need to say those things?
And would you say them not on a computer as "bearded red" but in the same room, as you? No need to answer that one.
-
Shame? Come off it. My opinion is that Cotterill was a terrible appointment. There are loads of reasons for that, some of which aren't for the public domain, but there are two that are absolutely fundamental:
None of the opinions about the manager affect the support shown for the team however, so where you get the idea of shame from I don't know.
I've highlighted the bit which in terms of criticism I think is perfectly reasonable, its your opinion, and BTW there are justifiable question marks raised by many over the competence of those doing the appointing, but that's a different much bigger issue.
But you made it into my Hall of Shame for the sentence "he's not very bright", its also your opinion but personal insults are unnecessary.
Mind you, yours was quite mild compared with egotistical tosser, penis, clown, etc.
"i'm A Winner."
in Football Chat
Posted · Edited by NickJ
I meant your post this evening not before which I suspect you must know.
We are as one on our opinions of the board who this time around have stumbled on somebody who is at the very least less bad than the previous four.
We can debate ad nauseam the rights and wrongs the manner and timing of SOD's sacking and whether Cotterill is any good but my OPINION based on FACT is we are far less likely to be relegated then we were 14 weeks ago.