Davefevs

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

 

Thanks for sharing.  Very frustrating interview because I think both TalkSport and Steve Dale were asking and answering different Qs.  Dale adamant that PFA are paying 50% of the wages to players under the agreement that Dale pays them back.

The question that wasn't asked was is anyone paying the other 50%.

I suspect that is a large proportion of people in this country who would "go under" if they were only paid half their wages for 6 months.  Footballers down in Lg1/2 are not earning stupid amounts, some are and they drag the average up.  A good percentage won't be and they'll have large commitments, e.g. mortgages etc.  Its quite possible in Dawson's case that he's already defaulted on mortgage, loan, lease payments.

The lack of empathy and belief by Dale is shocking.  I appreciate he's been stitched up when buying the club, but to keep going on about whether Dawson has been paid, but not specifically whether Dawson has been paid in full, shows him in a very poor light.

Whilst in some ways the odd club needs to go bust to make other clubs rein in their spending, the likes of Bury, serving a community, is not the club to made others think harder.

It's a mess, same with Bolton and others....and the EFL are not doing anyone any favours.

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Saw an interesting article on The Athletic- on FFP. Phil Hay the author- interesting to see Leeds view on some of the transactions of grounds etc that took place in the summer.

I think the Leeds situation is thanks in large part to their owner not sticking in the equity but a good article nonetheless. Interesting that Leeds one of the most compliant clubs, want reform.

Thanks for posting!

Have you read my DM yet?

1 minute ago, Carey 6 said:

 

Interesting few comments here, 

https://twitter.com/danielstorey85/status/1158667384015794176

Still £40k per week....£2m per annum.

SL - you need to get better lawyers, Morris is using every loophole!!!

53 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Is this true? Would he have to be classed as a youth team coach rather than a first team coach?

 

Gilmartin’s on more

You would think that any contract including a playing role, would have to count towards FFP.

32 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting one.

I'm not sure Clarke is such a cost but we'll see I guess. Bielik though certainly would be!

I think regardless of stadium sale they would have been alright with it to June 2018, as I've had a bit of a look at their Sevco 5112 Limited accounts for 2015/16 and 2017/18- will post full workings on here in a few days.

Could've been in a bit of bother once 2015/16 dropped off as there was a large "Impairment of Goodwill" on the Sevco 2015/16 accounts of £21,198,000 or thereabouts and it is unclear whether this was playing side related or not, and if it isn't then it could have been eligible for deduction from losses/addition to allowable costs.

Mel Morris did mention something about £10-15m of players wages being off the wage bill after the season just gone, so unlike say Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday definitely moving in the right direction. Entirely possible they will sell some academy/fringe players too which could be profit on transfers, the Lampard compensation helps too.

On the flipside, if they have that residual value model could that store up a few problems? Those aging/expensive/out of contract players who left this summer commanded no fee so far as I can see! Then again, Cup run including big Cup ties, playoff final as the losing side keeps gate receipts all helpful of course. On the other hand after this season, that stadium sale drops off- I think it brought a decent whack of restructuring time personally, as their amortisation model seems to differ to most,  I don't know how much impact an addition of £10m Bielik will have right now.

EFL really needed to set a cap, a precedent- in short to benchmark- on valuations once Reading's sale and leaseback was done.

Their profit as a% of current Net Book Value sounds feasible and realistic and the EFL should have capped as that for FFP purposes- i.e. the owner can pay what they like on paper and in actual accounts it would appear as that, but for FFP it's adjusted downwards- that sort of thing. Quickest example- Madjeski worth £20m or so, purchase cost £26.5m, profit £6.5m (roughly). Therefore for Pride Park say, Net Book Value £42m, Profit £13.65m for FFP- as I say owner can pay what they like in reality but for FFP you only allow that %. So simple- it's clear, it has a precedent and it has a benchmark to weight against.

For Hillsborough that would have left Sheffield Wednesday right up shit street. Highly likely Aston Villa too.

Incidentally, once this season is up that stadium sale and leaseback induced "profit" drops off the accounts- new starting point for the projected in March 2021 is 2018/19. Similar goes for Sheffield Wednesday though the veracity of that particular transaction, well it's very odd.

@DerbyFan re Bielik post, looks like you are getting your house in order.

@Mr Popodopolous Derby buying Bielik for £10m, loaning Clarke.  They’ve trimmed their squad but how do you think this looks from their FFP perspective?

Sir Les now weighing in. QPR have put a complaint into EFL. 

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

THE cost of rescuing Bolton Wanderers as a going concern could hit the £1million mark, according to a report released by administrators at the club. 

It is currently estimated that the services of David Rubin and Partners, who were placed in charge of the club’s sale, and their associated consultants, will reach £976,113. 

Administrators claim to have written off £20,761 in costs incurred prior to their appointment on May 13 but up to July 5 had racked up a bill of £560,951, at an average charge of £357 per hour. 


It is claimed a total 1,570 man hours – or roughly 65-and-a-half days - have been expended by administrators in the report, with rates ranging between £150 per hour for cashiers and assistants to £550 for seniors or managing partners. 

Fees will only be paid to the administrators at the end of the process, although a number of professional consultants have been paid monthly. 

A monthly fee of £30,000 has been paid to Consulting Logistics, a company whose registered offices are in Billericay, Essex. 


Among their directors is Keith Cousins, the former Rushden and Diamonds owner who was brought aboard to help with transfers and contracts. His correspondence address at Companies House is in Geneva, Switzerland. 

According to the report, Consulting Logistics are due significant payments at the end of the sale process, which are currently estimated at £480,800. 

It goes on to say that total costs will be around £1.5 million

Perverse 

Just now, chinapig said:

I'm inclined to agree, except football, and especially the football media, has lost any sense of its history. After all, the game began in 1992.

If Bury went there would be a few crocodile tears then it would be quickly back to talking what Paul Pogba has posted on Instagram.

I know, it really needs a Prem club to go bust.

Feel sad for their fans, but I actually think we need to see a historical “big club” go.  They have been mis-managed for a good few years now, mis-spent whilst in the Prem, and promotion in 17/18 in effect depriving another club a promotion.

It’s harsh, but football and the EFL (and PFA) need to get a serious grip. 

There’s more than a football club at stake here, lots of creditors, who might also go to the wall because of Bolton too.  Suspect they did business with Bolton in good faith.

2 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Might aswell support rovers if you are supporting glos at cricket. 

Derbyshire, la la la, Derbyshire, la la la.

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Kelly sale will fall in 2018/19 or? Eisa defintiely 2019/20 I believe.

I assume he's in the process of putting up the initial then going through and adjusting for infrastructure, youth, womens football etc.

Kelly into 18/19 definitely....along with Reid, Flint and Bryan.  18/19 is gonna look healthy.

Eisa into 19/20 definitely.

Surprised Price Of Football putting out a table like that, knowing it’s not accurate.  There are one or two clubs where we don’t know whether their owners are backing them for the full £13m or just working on £5m losses.

28 minutes ago, Taz said:

Now can't fulfil their Pre-season game against Preston....

23 team league season?

Looking increasingly likely.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17783753.amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Magennis and Otzuner handed in their notice, but not accepted by Administrators.  How does that work?  We all moan that footballers have it easy, but in situations like this, they appear to be stuck.

5 hours ago, JackofromSanJavier said:

And now I feel totally excluded on OTIB, thanks for that………….. 

Steak that looks like Putin!

13 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Whitchurch. Either Rush-Back (anyone could be the goalie) or Drop-Back (the goalie could play wherever they wanted but was the goalie nonetheless) 

Well. That's how I remember it anyway! Don't forget good old next goal wins too mind! 

Hengrove/Whitchurch borders for me.  We used same definition. 

The reality

I know they’re not big anymore, but this would be a significant club to go under.

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

General rule of thumb is £2k per 1,000 seats for a new build with an average finish, so thats about right if they're going for a decent finish.

 

So Derby’s £81.1m (if just Stadium) is way over with “depreciation”. 

On 29/06/2019 at 09:33, chinapig said:

The potential asset stripping won't bother Villa fans, they're living the dream and so on.

For it's long term benefit football needs a club behaving like this to crash and burn.

My thoughts for a long time.  One big club to go to the wall, or Sky / BT to start paying less.

We are positioning ourselves sensibly.

@Mr Popodopolous pretty sure Kelly will be in 18/19s accounts....and that’s not just because it happened on 18th May.  Think the England u21 tournament was a reason for getting it done and dusted (not pending).

On 19/06/2019 at 14:24, Riaz said:

@Mr Popodopolous I noticed that last summer relegated clubs west brom and swansea didnt spend much at all. Am i right in thinking, they are in a very good position under FFP rules? Will be able to spend quite a bit? Considering that last season they would have got 40m in parachute payments and will do this season

West Brom have suffered from cash flow issues, not FFP previously, but having not gone straight back up, this season will probably see pragmatism, hence the rumour if offering Rodriguez for £5m rising to £10m in season 2, probably to get him off the wage bill. Gayle was only loan wasn’t he, but they get Rondon back....probably to sell.  So I think they will be starting to adjust, like Norwich did.

Swansea had a huge wage bill, so Dan James sale will help compensate that.  Think they’ll be ok, but they won’t be splashing loads either.  The appointment of Cooper suggests they go back to their old formula.

@Mr Popodopolous will give you a better answer.

4 hours ago, DerbyFan said:

It's just been announced that our Chief Executive Stephen Pearce has joined yours and Reading's on the EFL Board today.

Can we assume from that, given that they are selected by the other clubs in the division that there is no problem between us and the majority of clubs re. FFP as had been rumoured on here?

I can't imagine they would have voted our CEO onto the board if there were issues?!

Nah, it’s so he can’t influence anything that might benefit Derby as he’ll have a conflict of interest and not be allowed any decision making!.  

@Mr Popodopolous any idea what went on between Bryn and Jason on the Fishing Trip....otherwise known as the EFL Meeting in  Portugal?

Your comments re the projected accounts submission id the big flaw in that rule and one we’ve speculated a lot on here. 

If Villa projected a big loss, then their FFP submission might include a footnote that they’ll sell Grealish before the end of of their accounts period to comply. 

And to be fair, there’s nothing wrong with that, hence the flaw in the projected accounts rule!

Out of interest @DerbyFan, what is your reason for joining our forum?  I understand posters of other clubs forums, coming onto OTIB to discuss players / recruitment, or best pub to drink in type stuff....but I’ve never seen anyone join to post about FFP....that’s pretty niche!

@Mr Popodopolous and @Olé 

Their method of accounting is gonna bite them in the arse (if they do t get promoted), maybe not this year or the next, but at some point those players are gonna be worth eff all and their amortisation impairment is gonna be huge.  Perhaps Morris can sell the player’s houses and lease them back.  It’s a dangerous game not straight line depreciating.  I can see Huddlestone being valued at £10m aged 57, continuing to get renewals just to keep Derby inside ffp!