Alessandro

Even in our days of ‘big spending’ the reality was our accounts showed how our wage budget was only ever, top half, top 10 approximately.

Given the club have reduced that wage bill budget drastically, how can they justifiably expect a top 6 finish?

1 minute ago, Reefer Madness said:

I'm going to buck the trend and say good. I've nothing against him but we were not going anywhere under him either .

Those of you who want nothing more than perennial survival, in understand why you are upset.  But frankly I would rather we took a gamble on someone new.  If we go down, that's too bad.. but it's just a game. We'll come back. And if we get it right, we might just be able to push for something special

That’s what we’ve been doing for the last 20 years - where the hell has it got us?!?

I’d question which one of those ‘top’ options would actually come? 

Suspect it’s becoming more and more obvious in the football world that we have an owner who likes to meddle in first team matters. And the context of Pearson’s sacking will raise eyebrows outside the club. People talk.

But look, there are some good options out there, proven track records.

History (Tinnion, Millen, LJ, Holden) tells us it won’t be one of those, but another one of SL’s ego appointments.

Obvious it’s been coming, but still shocked it’s happened.

Well, it’s a massive “over to you then SL” - let’s see what the grand plan is.

1 minute ago, Champs said:

Really sad day - did a good job in challenging circumstances, without really making real clear progress on the pitch….it was nice to have a proven manager and did such a good job yet at the same time I understand why they have moved on. A real class bloke though so thank you Nigel.

**** off Lansdown Bristol Sport bot

Yeah it’s got a bit like those Twitter bots supporting the Tory’s at times on here…

1 minute ago, BS2Boy said:

Worth noting that a number of those players today are Pearson signings. Cornick and Mehmeti are supposed to be better than what we already had.

Well ultimately they're the club as a whole signings, because NP can only bring in what he can on the budgets the club sets...so....

Injuries and fatigue are clearly going to be massive factors today, no doubt, so I won't be too critical.

Despite that thought we actually acquitted ourselves pretty damn well - better than vs. Ipswich - and it's another de-ja-vu feeling of we wouldn't have lost that game with a full (well fuller) squad.

A few of the more 'senior' players stepped up IMO, Dickie, Knight and TGH (yes had a few moments in possession but he passed and moved and quarterbacked excellently considering) Cornick put in a shift, Sykes out of position had moments. 

Disappointed with the levels of some others today.

Ironically James/Williams out meant TGH and Knight deeper and I thought Knight had his best game there, and TGH very good on the whole. Mehmeti didn't disgrace himself centrally. Knight-Lebel looked the better option if we're still needing the U23's to cover our depleted squad. 

Conway is looking fine in the video arriving at the ground.

Looks like Chinese whispers….

Shocking injury levels means you have to ask some questions. Was pre-season too intense? Is training causing issues? Is the squad too small?

You can say we've been unlucky with some, McCrorie. But all the soft tissues of Conway, Wells, Vyner, Tanner etc??

Is the squad balance to blame? Feel like we have a few sick-notes like Williams but is there also too much pressure on more injury susceptible players like Weimann, James, Naismith who realistically need to be managed, fatigue-wise? 

You've got to ask the question because it's not good enough. TBH feels almost as bad as it's ever been.

On 05/10/2023 at 22:26, Ciderhead433 said:

I've just watched the abuse he got over the sending-off, how did he ever put up with that 

It’s mental isn’t - I think about the people who abused him, no doubt fuelled by certain areas of our press - all fans that probably have the attitude ‘if someone hits you, hit them back’ - all loving and cheering the aggression in English football usually, taking pride in that football style that takes no prisoners, shirts off abroad, chucking chairs around French bars. But then losing their temper at an England player who loses his temper and reacts to being trampled on. 
 

English hypocrisy at its best. We love to sit ourselves on a pedestal don’t we.

9 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

So no club our size has done worse? Derby, Bolton, Wednesday, Wigan, Blackpool, Reading, Portsmouth, Charlton, Barnsley .. need I go on?

As I was saying, you can pick your argument.

What about Bournemouth, Brighton, Fulham, Cardiff, Swansea, Burnley, Brentford, Luton, Leicester, Southampton...need I go on?!

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

2007 new stadium plans.

Even a reference in late November 2007 to a new Training Ground at Failand.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/bristol_city/7118510.stm

Yes he did get on fairly quickly with planning the much needed new ground/development.

But that training ground reference; I think that may be something different to what we ended up with, Mr Pop? Because that was 2007 and planning for the HPC was in 2015 and submitted in 2017 IIRC - and we don't share anything with QEH as far as i'm aware (as referenced in old 2007 BBC link) - didn't we buy the land off the golf club? So unless there was 10 years of legal rangling, there was a delay or put on the back burner, for whatever reason.

4 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Surely he has been "filling in the holes" with the investment in the stadium, training ground, Academy etc.? There are plenty of owners who don't put the money in, or very little, and let the club fall to a level where it can pay the bills with little or no subsidies (the Gas are a good example)

Yes some of these things have been done, but far far too late IMO. For too long SL has been a reactive owner rather than proactive owner.

If he's been involved with us for 25 years, it took until 2018 for him to get the HPC planned, meaning for 20 odd of his 25 years we'd been training in a secondary school's playing fields. I played golf with Steve Coppell back in 2011/12 ish and he told me then he asked SL for £20k to improve the gym and got given £8k. It's taken far too long to get the facilities to the level it should be.  

Fair enough, the ground plans were in place at Ashton Vale for a while and the nimbys slowed all that down and we did get on with the redevelopment at Ashton Gate.

R.E the academy, it's exactly the same as the training ground. Too late - Minimal investment was put into it until the 5 pillars back in 2014-16 - so again, it's taken SL 15 plus of his 25 years to realise the need for the academy and need for real investment, as young player after young player were being poached from our area. It should not have taken us 20 plus years for us to be producing academy products at the rate we finally are.

Regarding other owners, look you or I can pick or choose examples of good and bad owners to suit our argument - I'm not actually making comparisons, i've never really done that ever TBH - it's not about anyone, it's about what works. What makes clubs successful, SL has had 25 years to try and work that out and still can't - yet still seemingly believes that only he can lead the way, hence his tiny board and tiny group of senior management.

For me, the clubs that have the dictatorship owners rarely succeed. Those who pay up and put football people in all the football positions from the board room to the physio and let them do their jobs and stay out the dressing room, tend to see the most success. 

Has he been a bad owner, absolutely no. He's provided some incredible continuity and stability for his 25 years on the whole. The heart and intentions are there no doubt. But let's not fall into the trap of thinking it's all been give give give by SL. This is after all the same man who, you don't need to speculate why, decided to leave England and live elsewhere..and I'm sure the businessman has found ways to make owning BCFC 'beneficial', if not now, in the future.  

Off the pitch we are as good as we've ever been yes - but it's still only us catching up to a level that rival clubs have been at for years - don't forget the clubs like Stoke, Middlesborough, Hull etc etc all moving to new all seater stadiums was back in the 90's! Those 3 all seeing something we've not since, Premier league football.

I was fully behind him when he looked like he had a plan finally back in 2014/15 and was willing to give that a chance - I realised when he appointed Holden little had changed and frankly the shit show he oversaw with MA and at the end of LJ shows a complete lack of football knowledge.

So the more you look at his appointments, the patterns, the repeated errors and the way he runs the show, the increasingly out of touch comments in the media (before he gave up with the media and city fans as he's seemed to do) the more it feels he's stuck in an echo chamber. 

We know he wants to sell up, but with his asking price and the package it's already looking easier said than done.

Yes be careful what you wish for, some will say. Probably the same people though that say maybe we should sack NP and see what other options are out there....

19 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

People should remember that without Steve Lansdown putting in £20m or so every year to keep the accounts balanced this club would be in L1. No previous owners have supported the club financially to this extent so a change of owner may well see us going down rather than up.

I’ve always felt this over the years too - but the more I think about the more I think “that’s football” these days.

Yes it’s a huge sum, but people will say to you it’s often a debt of his own mis management - and more over time I’ve come to agree with this. He’s thrown good money after bad time and again.

The reality is football doesn’t make money outside the premier league, at least not for long periods. You own a club, you lose money - why bother? Many reasons probably but mainly because you want to get to the money of the premier league - that’s the jackpot.

Ironically, just pumping in the bare minimum to keep you a float, or throwing good money after bad, is counter productive - it’s like having a container ship with multiple holes in the hull, patching up one at a time and carrying a smaller payload to minimise the losses. 

No, haul the ****** out, invest in filling all the holes then you can fully load up the cargo and make some real money.

OK random analogy but hopefully you get the idea. 

Without looking to be antagonistic - you can add SC was fired when we fell into the relegation zone too, we’re not there with NP.

However back to now - I’m like a broken record, but the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. SL in decision terms, has made the same mistakes so many times we’ve lost count.

We just seem to be going around in circles and the ‘bodies’ are pilling up at alarming rates - Coppell, Pelling, McInnes, Cotterill, Burt, Alexander, Ashton, LJ, Holden to name a few off top of head (sure people can name more) - all leaving the club under varying size dark clouds, all with gagging orders - all with very little positive things to say about the club or board after leaving….will NP join that list?

All the while the number of people SL has around him in the key managerial and board level positions at the club has shrunk to a very small handful of yes men - as clearly anyone who questions him is handed a P45 - the result is SL looks now stuck in his echo chamber, further evidenced by his and the boards virtual media/fan radio silence. All leaves me with little faith that if NP is replaced, he will be replaced well.

Mixed emotions tonight - tough one to lose - some positives, too many negatives. 

Felt like a team struggling for a bit of confidence, composure and form, no doubt affected by the number of injuries we have and some fatigue for those remaining - feel like 4/5 key players more fit we wouldn't have lost that tonight.

Ipswich, enjoy the 3 points, actually expected much more from you given the way some of you talk yourselves up - clearly well drilled but execution lacking too often, minimal impact from subs and lucky to get all 3 points tonight TBH - I don't think you will go up this season IMO.

However - what I will say is this - I hope SL watches that tonight and it's a wake up call, a real time for reflection, that Ipswich under Ashton, are where they are, are moving past and ahead of us. Will they be the next club you want to emulate?! Or will you ask yourself why it didn't work here and why we are still treading water.

It's great to have an academy and a pathway but we shouldn't be relying on those players as we currently are. 

You want top 6, you talk about top 6 - invest in top 6. From the top to bottom of the structure. 

6 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I always park at the Goals centre, 5/10 min walk from the ground and think only £5 charge. Piss of piss to get in/out of. 

Gôl Centres always a good shout - very close.

I’d just avoid Canton, Grangetown, Cowbridge Road East, bottom of Llandaff Road etc 

7 minutes ago, devoncider said:

is Pontcanna worth it or a bit too risky? If it's just two of us keeping quiet with no colours

Pontcanna is a very nice area and usually fine, wouldn’t say it’s risky - parking hard. Most pubs fairly chilled up and around Cathedral Road. Somewhere like Brewhouse and Kitchen should be fine for you with no colours.

On 23/10/2023 at 19:45, Davefevs said:

Only time I’ve been to Cardiff (a) was the bubble match on an evening in the 15/16 season.

As this is a 3pm Saturday game, what is there around the ground, other than food stall type stuff?  Not looking for a pint, just prefer different food.

If I get to Cardiff early, is heading down to Cardiff Bay first an option?

Yes the bay is a good option Dave - take the docks road in and the first left off the queens gate roundabout onto Caspian way.
 

There is blue badge parking outside the wales millennium centre on Bute place or you’ve got Q Park Cardiff bay or Mermaid Quay Park. Other option is the red dragon centre.
 

It’s a bit further to walk but County Hall Park and Ride car park is free evenings/weekends.

10 hours ago, shelts said:

Driving . Daughter wants to park up in St David’s , have some food and walk to the ground, not a good idea ?

No colours or nothing. 

Yeah it’s a bit of a stroll but do-able.

Parking wise you’ve got John Lewis and St David’s at the shopping centre/motor point arena end - both get busy on weekend and are more pricey.

The NCP just before them at Cardiff Adam Street is an option if very busy.

Street parking closer is a bit of a gamble availability and permit wise but there are little spots here and there.

14 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

These are your made up words not a quote from me!

I clearly stated that I thought it best to continue with Nige if he is willing and able. 

I also stated that I thought it ridiculous to suppose that NP was the only manager capable of taking the club forward on the pitch.

As for the 'chill out' bit. Yes- I think that's precisely how I feel. I just can't feel the same sense of righteous indignation/ 'I'm not going to support City anymore'. as many on here suggest.

Something Tom (otib website manager)  said before he left /stopped working with OTIB really struck a chord with me. He said something along the lines of " if it all gets a bit much and you get too wound up then just take a break for a while". 

Wise words. As far as the fortunes or otherwise of a club I have always supported are concerned, there are too many other situations in this world which matter far more to me than the manager or the owner or even results. If we do well then it's great and if we don't it's pretty much same old same old. I've had my Nick Hornby Fever Pitch period and am much the better for coming out the other side!

 

I guess that’s it there isn’t, you’ve summed it up - good or bad - City’s fortune doesn’t really matter that much in your life. For large periods I’ve been often the same.

However much I don’t agree with some view points, i’ve come to understand and respect though that for many, City is their life. Is their hobby. Is their weekend. Yes maybe some need to take a break as you say, but even if I don’t agree with their view points I respect their right to get frustrated if they see a large proportion of their income going into a club that is happy to take the cash but seems to care very little about them or their opinion.

A few other points about stability and foundations for those saying it won't just disappear if NP goes.

I'm not saying it will, obviously many foundations will remain. For example NP is benefiting from homegrown talent produced by work done in the academy under MA and LJ. 

So i'm not saying it's back to square one. But don't underestimate how much a new manager can undo balance at a football club. We've seen it time and again at other more successful clubs.

You have to remember, to manage at this level, it takes personality and a fair dose of ego/confidence in yourself and your processes. Whoever comes in will have their own way and that could well be in contrast to what we are doing currently which is, on the whole 'working', or at least trending the right way thanks to NP.

Players will become surplus to requirements, players will be frozen out, players will be sold. The excellent morale of this squad will be hit to some degree, whether you like it or not. That's a fact - the new manager will want their own players and so we go through the 1 to 2 year process AGAIN of them building 'their' squad. 

That could well be for the better, but either way it takes time and is a gamble.

The non-tangibles in football are like gold dust. Team spirit, ethos, momentum. Very hard to buy and very long to grow. Things we'll need in abundance to go up - NP brings those. Will the next man? Remember, the players aren't playing for SL, whether he likes it or not. NP has them playing for him and the fans. 

That's not me saying NP is the messiah or can never be sacked - but just a cautionary thought that things working well under NP won't automatically continue to do so under another manager who can just fly in and magic his way to promotion with some extra cash from SL.

17 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's an odd one- the impending change of Manager seems to be mainly 'a thing' on OTIB yet nowhere else other than from Nige himself stating that he was irritated by his lack of job security (new contract).

The idea that the club "destroys" three years of foundations seems , imo, overlooking all the work that the likes of Pearson, Gould and even SL have put in to create better foundations. If Nige leaves due to health/sack/choice then the work he has done will not have been 'destroyed'.

Last season 15 Managers were sacked in the Championship with Wigan,Watford and Huddersfield sacking two. Nige is the second longest serving . Football clubs constantly have to reinvent themselves and it's an ongoing challenge.If Nige had been more successful ( or becomes so)  and  poached by a bigger club would that destroy three years of foundations? Surely the whole point of foundations is to ensure the club is not reliant on one individual to get results both on and off the pitch?

 

 

This is hugely reliant on the next appointment though. You're presuming they:

A) Have the wish to continue building on these foundations in same sort of way.

B) Have the ability to maintain these standards.

As others point out, history has shown us, time and again, BCFC have a poor track record in any sort of continuity of strategy or managerial personality/ethos - as KITR says above, swinging from one idea to another. Which leaves us ripping up the rule book and starting again.

I think those who know my posting history over the last 10 years plus on OTIB know I've been a huge backer of SL, supporting him in the face of much criticism.

I'm not angry now or hysterical or frustrated - just wisened, perhaps disappointed - and over the last 15 years I've watched his actions and although there is praise to be given in areas, i've seen the same mistakes made time and again - most recently losing control under MA and LJ as he did under GJ and the appointment of Holden. Is he the only club owner making those mistakes, hell no. 

But the reality is we've been at best treading water league position wise under SL, the only moments of upwards movement being to put right the downwards movements on his watch. 

When you sit back and think, wow, look at what Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Luton, Forest, Fulham to name 6 teams out of 20 plus who've been in the premier league for sometime during this SL period - you look at the potential of BCFC and you see the same patterns, same mistakes made over and over - coupled with the increasing detachment of the board with the fans - I don't think it's unreasonable for fans like me to look at and say, this doesn't add up and I can't simply blindly get behind the actions of this board anyone - even if to you "it's just an impending managerial that really isn't a big deal/happens all the time in football/chill out just because OK".