Alessandro

@W-S-M Seagull - like you my initial reaction was one of suspicion - mainly because I am suspicious of BT and JL right now.

Having heard a few more details on here, I think we’ve made a pragmatic deal, albeit not ideal, with no major risk for any parties involved and have added something we need in the squad.

One to reassess in the summer - for now I’m happy just see what value he brings on the pitch. 

19 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

People with opinions.

You don’t have any opinions?

Or you prefer not to hear opinions you don’t agree with??

Always amazing how often someone comes on OTIB, a forum for discussion and opinions and complains about there being discussions and opinions….

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

All very reasonable questions. All very reasonable concerns, challenges.

But........over-thinking it?? 

Six months is a very long time in football. So many if's and but's along the way.

It doesn't feel to me like it's some kind of massive departure from our direction of travel/strategy. 

I'm just looking forward to seeing a good player, who'll give us something different, and - even if we don't make 6th (I don't think we will) - may contribute to us ending the season with more confidence about next. And let's see where we, Burnley, Twine, Williams and everyone else is then.

Yeah maybe overthinking but just discussing it…probably one to reassess in the summer really - as I say, on paper a great addition, but I’m not a massive fan of the if’s and but’s, wait and see strategy. 

I prefer every player to have a plan for us and one beyond 6 months personally. Maybe Twine does have that and we don’t know about yet, as others have intimated. Also given the rumours about how the deal came about, the loan doesn’t seem unreasonable.

It is a departure somewhat, as I believe under RG and NP we wouldn’t have made this signing in this form, even if we wanted or ‘needed’ the player. 
 

Time will tell what value he brings in the next 6 months. 
 

Leaving aside the black and white opinion club politics of the signing.

Is Twine a signing that improves the team, yes.

Is Twine a signing that develops the squad, potentially no.

That’s the thing for me now with new signings, it’s not about a shiny new thing, a few more points this season and more ‘feel good’ down the gate factor for a few games - we’ve been trying to do that for years and getting nowhere.

It’s about the strategy and the plan. I don’t quite see where he fits in that yet, with the current info we have around the deal.

Under RG and NP we didn’t have loans for the sake of it and the development of our squad benefitted from that.

If Twine is one of 2 or 3 signings this window that help us push on for 6th, brilliant I absolutely love and welcome that. However if he’s the only 1, IMO he will not be the player that makes the difference.

So, what’s the point? Suppose it depends if you think we still have a chance this season at 6th or not, personally I’m looking at next. Call me Negative Nancy. Let’s see how the rest of the window goes.

Therefore I’m asking the question - how does he fit in the team with regards to development for next season?

Drop Bell or Mehmeti? Or is it Williams or TGH? If LM’s decided Williams doesn’t get a new contract, fine. Harsh maybe but there’s a plan there.

If he plays Twine for 15 plus games (then he leaves us in the summer) having dropped TGH or Bell or Mehmeti, all players who are contracted to play next season, I’d be asking questions.

Does that make me an ungrateful Karen? Well I don’t think so. IMO I’m looking more long term because it’s going to be a long term strategy (one we seemed to be on) that will get us out this division.
 

We know we can’t buy our way out so we need that long term thinking. There’s a place for a good loan if it’s a “final piece of the jigsaw” type but not one or two Prem loans here and there to maybe finish 10th instead of 14th. 

What sane, normal Leicester fan would come out of their way onto this forum months after Pearson has left, sign up, just to write some drivel that appears very few Leicester fans think….odd…but I think we all know that’s no Leicester fan. 
 

Anyway - Manning!

Yes credit where it’s due - wrote elsewhere Williams is one of a few players whose levels seem to be going up under LM.

I’ve been delighted to see Manning doing the simplest of things that so often managers don’t do - playing players in their right positions and to their strengths. 

Bell being another - I often complained with how he was used under Pearson, Manning has utilised him in a much better way that suits his game, and we’re seeing more from him, which is great.

Same with Pring and Tanner - one with more license to roam - playing to strengths.

I admit I wrote him off slightly in the summer - in terms of being a ‘top 6’ player for us, more a squad filler who might struggle with injuries. 

Very happy he’s having this purple patch and staying fit. Let’s hope it stays that way! 

One of a few players whose levels appear to be going up under Manning which is also very positive. 

Sorry if already mentioned - haven’t seen it:

SC was analysing for 5live today from the game - I heard him whilst listening on the motorway.

Made several interesting comments - slightly paraphrased, but this was the jist, not in direction relation to city necessarily, just general comments, but felt pointed at times:

1) Owners sacking managers - owners don’t understand the pressures of being a manager and often expect too much from the resources given. 

2) Blooding youngsters - the pattern he always sees when a good prospect comes through is a burst onto the scene and then a dip in form - it’s then up to the manager to protect that player by “taking them out the firing line” so they can come back stronger. Made me think of a few currently in our squad….

3) Absolutely called our game in the first half - talked about possession football and playing from the back. Asked why do it? Because it’s trendy or because you want or can break the press? Do you have the ability? He took City/Millwall as an example and said City can try and play pretty football all day but if you can’t defend set pieces…and Millwall will get a chance from one today….it’s worthless. Lo and behold…. 
 

Didn’t listen all game so he may have had more gems - but interesting comments regardless. 

Dust settled and plenty of positives for me - always good to come away from an away game frustrated with a point. 

Birmingham have plenty of quality even if the form is not good since Rooney came in.

Felt that several were not at their best last night, fatigue no doubt - happy to say we weren’t at our best and still picked up a point.

Final third quality is missing, but we knew that in the summer didn’t we…enjoying the performances in this 4 game undefeated run though.

Actually a decent first half in a scrappy game with quite a few of them not firing on all cylinders. 

TGH and Mehmeti scrappy in final third - latter missing two good chances.

Williams and Pring not at best on ball in the right places.

Knight took a long time to get into it.

Birmingham do look poor though, feel this really is a game to be won.

Conway on for Wells. 

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

5 off when NP sacked, 4 off after the Fleming game.

Credit where due we have been moving upwards. 2 points off now.

For completeness of records we were between 3 and 5 points better off from the 3 games of NP this and last season and it definitively became 5 after the Fleming game.

The 14 from 9 under Manning is without doubt an impressive return.. and we are really trending upwards but it is identical to the equivalent 9 last season.

Agreed - very happy to see us settling now under Manning.

However what we’re seeing, in terms of league position and results, is nothing particularly new or ground breaking…

You could argue the last few results simply ‘righted’ the poor ones we had under Manning before.

As you also point out, let’s not rewrite history - we’re not yet beating teams we didn’t under NP and our league position now is not a position we haven’t been in under NP…nor potentially different to where we were when we started that run of bad injuries pre his sacking.

I’m enjoying being where we are and that little run of wins - but for people to be saying ‘look how much better Manning is’ is perhaps a little premature/simple view. 
 

Add in any potential Jan business which further adds to the “we’ll never know”.

As @Red-Robbo says - NP is gone so it is what it is - any further success will be upon his foundations and I’ll be very happy for Manning to have built on those if he does that! 

Fantastic run of results - today we were brilliant - very positive how on it we were compared to Watford.

Well done Manning and the boys - let’s keep it going and to the Lansdowns, let’s give Liam a few more materials to work with in January please now, thank you. 

I mean it’s an absolutely shocking decision for the penalty - as soft as it gets.

But is it just me or is it just very hard to get any sort of optimism or positivity about that half? 
 

At home and we just feel miles off another top 6 team - and Hull for ***** sake. 

Another club to the list to come back and over take us in the queue for promotion as we slowly drift backwards.

Depressing. Merry Christmas. 

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Indeed. When Manning came in.

The position now, still with some to play this week to get up to 21 games each.

11 above the bottom 3 has become 7, 15 above Sheffield Wednesday has become 13 plus QPR and Sheffield Wednesday each have a game in hand.

After QPR away we were 12 above the bottom 3 and 16 above Sheffield Wednesday.

At best bottom 5 or 6.

Wow - I hadn’t looked at the table for a while - when Manning came in, as you say, we looked miles off the relegation zone and the teams in it looked miles adrift.

In fact, didn’t someone start a post saying it’s all over for those bottom 3?! 

Certainly doesn’t look that way anymore, QPR have blown that last spot wide open and any team in that bottom half should be wary, including us now.

Absolutely crazy to even be entertaining it TBH - what a shambles right now, needs turning around soon.

1 minute ago, KingHillRed said:

But we have ripped it up

So what are the options:

 - Get behind new gaff and see positives over negatives

 - Moan about the shoulda/coulda/woulda

I personally opt for the former

I'm not a championship manager but I also understand these boys are not robots 

Do you know what - I’m sick of this kind of reply. 

Lemming ‘it is what it is’ attitude.

Sorry not for me anymore. Not after years of the same mistakes made by the Lansdowns - constantly going around in circles. I supported them for years but they’ve lost me.

We as fans have a voice and I intend to use it - not just fall in line ‘because’.

Why? Because I aspire for so much for this club. 
 

1 hour ago, KingHillRed said:

That isn't how things work in reality though is it

You are employed to implement your style of play on the playing squad as quickly as possible, accepting the teething issues that come with it

"Slowly" implement - come on, this is the championship, nothing is done slowly

These issues are inevitable but you need time to transition away from old style and into new - that is all this is

You’re talking like you have an idea how it works? Do you?

With respect, unless that’s you Luke, you’re not a championship manager - so you have no clue in reality. 
 

If it is you Luke, well it’s not working.

So it’s all opinions and other opinions, backed up by performances and more importantly results - suggest you’re wrong.

But as you say, it’s the championship - exactly why you don’t rip up the process and experiment 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Think Nige brought so many through into the first team group, and early / quickly, it’s left a big gap. 

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I think (from memory - which isn't the best) BT was referring to the younger element, those aged around 15/16/17 coming through. Meerholtz is only 17 and on the bench for instance, Naismith had some good words when talking about him. I don't think NP or LM would have any hesitation in using Knight-Lebel who is extremely good imo and has played for Canada at U21 level, but who do you drop ? Maybe towards the end of the season or next season for a few.

I think that’s my point - if promotion is the aim - and we’re realistically ‘writing off this season’ -

Look at the squad, we look 4,5,6 players short of Manning-Ball levels for a top 6 push IMO (as detailed in other thread)

If they’re not coming from the academy ready for next season…

We’re going to have to increase the wage budget restrictions and open the wallet fairly considerably to fill the gaps AND lift performance levels needed.

Maybe the cash is there already (held back, we now know why)…maybe we have 10/15 mill set aside from Semenyo and Scott. Spent wisely that’s 4 good players at least - we’ll see. 

I've got to say, i'm feeling a tad more pessimistic about the squad since Manning came in.

In terms of how he wants to play and who can play like that.

Looking at squad evolution, taking performances into account (I might be being harsh, but) you would want to build a team around:

Vyner/Dickie 

Knight/Sykes

Add in Pring and Conway.

(Atkinson and McCrorie to return, left out the debate)

So for me doubts over our whole midfield, James and Williams OOC in summer - TGH in and out team (does Manning rate him?) So who do you build around there? Anyone coming through academy ready for next season?

Bell, Mehmeti and Tanner - again question marks - need to lift levels. Weimann, Naismith and Cornick - what top pros, but top 6 material anymore?

Again, interesting times. 

49 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Funny you should say that, but I was thinking  the exact same thing yesterday. If Manning is under pressure for results he won't be chucking kids in.

Sid, what gave you done ?

Is anyone else questioning the depth of the academy right now? Tinnion has talked it up massively....if you thought Alex Scott was good, wait till you see the next lot...

But the pathway looks like it's slowed down to me - feels that way. Who is next? I'm not saying it's stopped, just slowed.

We started were only 4 academy products - which one is the next big sell? 

Max, Zac, Sam and Tommy. I could see Zac being poached and if Conway goes on a run of goals rest of season, he'd be looked at. Bell, putting it diplomatically, still finding his feet at this level. Max? Can't see big money spent of him. 

Then 3 more on the bench that feel quite a long way off the first team and under ironically Manning he seems more reluctant to throw them on than under NP.

I can see new signings (if allowed..another debate) pushing Bell and potentially even Conway down the pecking order. Not great for the pathway/nest egg.

Then to the next crop - next season too soon for real impact? They're not getting any game time.....interesting times.

Under Pearson - he clearly built a squad and playing style built around the budget he was given.

A pragmatic style for a pragmatic budget. Not spectacular, but neither did we give away many goals, let alone soft goals.

Solid mid table stuff.

Under Manning - he has come in and highlighted this - our squad was built for that style, so the possession based approach is having limited success, and for me, despite some good glimpses, has the potential to continue to have limited success under Manning.

Yes maybe we’re seeing more possession and now chances - but what it is doing is highlighting the deficiencies in the squad, in terms of quality and ability, to play this style. 

Hence, the many bad decisions, lack of composure and missed chances up top and the now every match mistakes that are costing us goals and games.

So the changes are not bringing the results…yet.

What will bring the results? More of the same? More time?? I’m not convinced. 

So for me all he’s doing is highlighting what we knew - you want this style, you want top 6? Well you’re going to need to spend money. 

I'm sure the Lansdowns are lovely people and the intentions are good and honest.

But simply put they just seem not to know how to run a successful football club. 

There is absolutely no vision. No innovation. They are reactionary in a world where your reactions are usually too late. 

Add in the inability to recognise that and bring in top people with vision to work in the top positions instead and have voices that challenge them, means we're stuck in a perpetual cycle of yes men appointments like Tinnion, Holden, Millen, LJ. People the Lansdowns "can work with"....and so the pattern repeats.

Of course it's not impossible we go up under SL, but I can't see it this year or next, so it will have taken nearly 20 years longer than it could and should have done to get there.

Crazy really and a shame for Steve Lansdown that, after all this time and money, what looks like stubbornness from the outside will mean his legacy will probably be that he failed to get BCFC to the premier league.

Thanks @Davefevs - just interested to see those as I’ve been amazed at quite a few comments on here and social media that have concluded the “football is better” under Manning.

I said on another thread it’s certainly different, but is different better?

On goals scored, attacking football/chances created - all things we want to see and were sold by the board, it’s currently trending down.

Perhaps people being deceived by increased possession (at times)…but I guess that as you say QPR skewed the stats a bit - let’s see after next few games 

Interesting @Mr Popodopolous - I said in the match day thread, feels like we’re starting games slower than under NP..stats look that way too.

@Davefevs - so despite Tinnion and Lansdown talking, how many times?!, about front foot attacking football, we’re pressing less and getting less high turnovers, and we’re less direct football than under Pearson.

Out of interest Dave, do you have access to a sample of XG/chances created and conceded over pre and during Manning?

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's an observation of mine, that Manning has a whole plethora of words and answers, very much ' Coaching talk' that can be rinsed and spun in interviews. 

He doesn't take time to evaluate his answers...they are a gattling gun of responses, that sound 'intelligent', but when taken into context like today, will shoot you him the foot. 

Sadly there are a lot of Ashton's and LJs in his approach to responses. 

 

Don’t necessarily disagree mate - it’s a bad answer but perhaps he needs some time to find his feet, on and off the pitch. 

Interview’s always hard for any manager when you lose, easy when you win.

Fair enough for you to point it out and discuss calmly, but feel he is start to get some unfair stick from some, too soon, IMO.