Alessandro

Just now, transfer reader said:

Have I denied that at any point?

Ha mate - well if you haven’t, then you seem to have got yourself in a right old lather with multiple posters for no reason! 

3 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Yes, if it was an accurate statement because then it would be correct.

I'd still have an issue with the very selective dataset for the first table and the second table having uneven amounts of games, but that's seperate to whether a statement is actually true.

So you agree then, at some points during this season, we have been in the form that would, some seasons in the championship, be relegation form?

@transfer reader - so if @Silvio Dante had said - during some seasons over the last 10 years, that period of PPG extrapolated over a season would be ‘relegation form’ - would that be acceptable? 

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Blimey- he did all that? Top bloke.

I bet Brian Tinnion , the owners and Richard Gould couldn't believe their luck.

Well I’m sure they’ll all be glad now he’s gone, giving us nothing but mediocrity!

Can’t wait for all the exceptional progress and football we have to look forward to now Pearson won’t be holding us back!!

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Marginally off topic but....

Are we still going to rename a stand after Nigel Pearson? I'm really concerned that it's just a matter of time before he's only remembered for a couple of seasons of mediocrity.

Yep - a couple of seasons of mediocrity saving our club from points deductions, potential relegation and fines because of the mismanagement of the owners that you so unconditionally support….

Oh and developing on the pitch the best young player we’ve ever had, the money from which your also don’t dare criticise Liam Manning will be benefiting from….

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

There is a lot of stuff I agree with here although I’m not so black and white.  All I can do is sit and watch us game by game and see if the recent games, still containing inconsistency, are the “new norm” or not. If they are then I can move forward. But if we start to see a move back towards the style we saw pre-Easter now he’s got himself a few points, then I’ll be very disappointed.

All I can hope is he’s seen a bit of light and realised his principles, identity needed a bit of a tweak to be more effective at this level. 

R.E Style and Principles etc - clearly something was going to give, wasn’t it? The style Manning seemed to be pursuing, for whatever reason, was not bringing results. 

Simply put, the manager and squad/club model were not aligned IMO. 

If the club are recruiting to a model, and have been for some time, either:

A) BCFC change that model for the each manager.

or

B) The manager has to adapt to our model. (Or get sacked - or be so good they prove their model is better)

Since the international break, (again) for whatever reason, Liam has fallen back into a style closer to our ‘model’ and one that was bringing more results.

Whether he came to that realisation himself or has been given an ultimatum by the club, I don’t really mind - it’s working for now - but as you say, time will tell if the style changes again.

3 minutes ago, Cole Not Gas said:

Interesting you pick out those two. Like everyone sitting around me, i think the players have looked far more 'on-it' and 'intelligent' since Liam came in. However, these two are important exceptions; i think Vyner was brilliant under Pearson and Skyes was at his most dangerous then rather than since October. In Zak's defense one of Liam's great tactics last night was to play the long ball against a suspect defence and several paid off- two didnt but that's the nature of a higher risk, longer pass. As you say, no strong criticism last night - especially the manager's subs! 3 goals and an assist in short time

Hi Mrs Manning - Liam will be home for tea in a minute!

49 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

First was an out ball stuck out the exit. The second resulted from an attempted pass. 

Tactic executed excellently. Not really. 

I bow to your superior tactical knowledge! 

I was referring more to the tactic of running the channels and looking to capitalise from that, which worked for the first two goals at least. 
 

EDIT - given we’re discussing “how good city were” vs “how bad Blackburn were” - in terms of the 5-0 win - what’s your opinion?

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

The first poster to use the word lucky was the poster moaning at people calling us lucky........................

We finished superbly, we pressed/condensed play, call it what you want superbly AND Blackburn were absolute litter. All three are a fact but some are so sensitive of perceived criticism of the manager that you ain't allowed to say it.

From my personal perspective I've got no issue with Liam at all if he keeps producing and/or showing signs that long term he can do the job. The only person I have an irrational desire to **** out of it is Tinnion, and no circumstance whatsoever and comment by anyone on here changes that.

Thank you, good post - this is the reality - not some sensitive nonsense about people apparently saying, which I haven’t seen, that we were lucky, just because we’re discussing us capitalising on school boy defending. 

15 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Fair enough. and having rewatched Conway's goal, I think you're right: the ball isn't trapped by Hyam but bounces off him and TC pounces.  Still needs good composure from Conway to seize the chance. Another 20 seconds and it's safe for Blackburn.

6 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

 

There was a coaches voice or similar video where a manager (possibly Dyche, but don't hold me to that) talked about a game where they deliberately conceded possession with a ball into the channel, with the intention of then pressing high.

Idea being they'd press up high while the opposition were still regrouping from the turnover, and try to catch people out of position in the process.

 

I know that's not necessarily what we were doing last night, just a point about how a long ball into the channel and a high press aren't exclusive and can be utilised together.

 out of likes today

It was clearly a tactic last night and it was executed excellently - regardless of their mistakes. 

10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

To my mind, a "press" includes strategic balls over the top. It wasn't as if we were lumping it up from our half a la Pulis. We played on the front foot more or less from the off. Totally agree that they gave away stupid penalties. But then, most are...  Silvio is right to give credit to a ref who called them correctly particularly when others might've ignored the handball "because I've already given them one".  

I kind of know what you’re saying but for me a high press, say from a goal kick being played out from back, which results in a turnover from a good press is different to a ball into the channel IMO which isn’t a press.

The intensity and intent however is the same granted, willingness to run those channels and force mistakes with your pace and positioning yes, but that’s not a press. A straight out foot race between defender and attacker is not the same as the modern press. Regardless of if the attackers intent can force a mistake, like a poor touch or back pass.

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

I don't think we were "gift wrapped" goals. Hyams may have been poor but both pens and his under-pressure back pass came because we were pressing high and continuously. For his first,  Conway still needed to be alert to the possibility and bury it. I've seen us miss plenty of possible interceptions. As for Mehmeti's goal, there was nothing gift wrapped about it in my opinion. After robbing the defender he had to hold him off, take it into the box, wrong-foot another defender and shoot from an angle to avoid a third. It was pure skill. 

You don't fluke a 5-0. It comes because you were playing well - as well as them playing poorly. 

As I said on another thread, you lose 5 nil if you collapse or meet a far superior team.
Blackburn have the 2nd worse defence in the league and we’ve got the 8th worst goals scored in the league, so, it clicked for us last night, but they were awful. For our level of football those are gift wrapped chances.

Credit for our running and energy in the channels, but the first two goals didn’t come from a press but from balls over the top. From a defensive perspective, they both should have been cleared easily. First goal, awful first touch actually (it was a mis control, not back pass IMO) to let Tommy in. Second, mis-kick then reckless diving challenge when the angle was tight for Sykes anyway.

Third was good pressing, but Mehmeti isn’t outmuscling Hyam, he’s misjudged it and played for a foul and gone down like a child. Very poor. Then his team mates seem to wait for the whistle and just watch - lovely skill and finish from Anis to capitalise though. 

4th - I mean, come on.

5th - lovely goal, but they'd collapsed. 

4 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

#emotions 

#allthefeels

10 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Aren't most people basing in on the last 4 (certainly) possibly 7 games.? Not just tonight.

After the Cardiff game I was properly pissed off at how dreadful we were.

Swansea, I actually think was deliberately cautious to stop the rot.

Ipswich - at least we competed.

West Brom - wasn't great, but now looks like a blip in the run, rather than reverting to type.

What makes you think anyone is basing it on 1 game, when we haven't conceded a goal in 4 games & taken 10 points from the last 12 available..?

There’s a few on here using that win last night as justification to say they’re vindicated for their strong support of Manning - and sticking the knife those who’ve, rightly ImO, been critical of an otherwise underwhelming, and at times little streaky, reign under Manning so far. 

As I said in another thread, the last 4 ‘results’ have been very good - but in those 4 games we’ve been the beneficiary of some poor finishing (Vardy) and top keeping from Max (v Sunderland in an otherwise pretty poor showing) and we were literally gift wrapped 4 goals last night.

So all I’m saying is, within that nice run, it’s not all been perfect sailing - we’ve ridden our luck at times and despite the clean sheets we’ve continued to give away big chances, statistically that will catch us up.

That’s not taking away however from a big improvement from Manning, playing a footballing style that is better suited to the squad finally and more akin to what was suggested the club wanted when they appointed him. Hopefully that means he has adapted (voluntarily or otherwise) which would be very good news. 

Big improvement but as I say, I’m not celebrating anything yet….long way to go. 
 

EDIT - I dare say the results uptick have also been helped in part by the return of a player we don’t have next season too…

10 minutes ago, Fuber said:

My only caveat is that Hyam and MacFadzean have gifted us all five goals.

Aside from that, solid, organised, nice 'patterns'. Strong performances across the pitch.

Would be more bouyed if Knight takes that Pring full back and smashes it in when 2-0 up. As would then be an open play goal not directly from an error or penalty, but that's obviously nitpicking.

Yes it’s nice win but you’re absolutely right.

I don’t think you can understate how poor Blackburn were tonight.

If a team wins 5-0 either you’re meeting a hugely talented attacking team or the losing team have capitulated.

Given the fact we’ve only won a game by more than 2 goals 3 times all season and only 8 teams in the league have scored less goals than us…

Add in Blackburn’s current bottom 6 form and the fact they have the 2nd leakiest defence in the league.

Suggests more of the latter.

A nice win yes, credit for that - but IMo people probably shouldn’t get too carried away though on the back of tonight…

A little run of good results is nothing particularly new, we’ve been streaky for years.

Can Manning make us more consistent? 

Personally (not getting heady after winning 5 nil) I’m reserving judgment for a longer sample of games - especially as in the last few results we’ve been on the right end of some awful finishing (Vardy), Max at his best on multiple occasions and a Blackburn side that gifted, literally handed us 4 goals tonight. 

False dawn or not? Eitherway, we’ll find out next season as Manning will have his shot…

Am I right, they’ve had £19 MILLION of tax payers money, just to “clear the site”?

This ******* country…..

Steve Torpey - fills a gap in our squad…..

21 hours ago, Kibs said:

The use of Top 6 / Promotion quotes do crack me up.

If JL/BT told you to jump off a cliff because it’s good for your health, would you do it? Or would you use your brain and reach your own conclusion? 

Our squad is weaker this season than last season IMO, certainly not stronger!

Alex Scott was never adequately replaced, Antoine Semenyo was never adequately replaced - why on earth anyone feels we should even be competing for a Top 6 spot, regardless of the manager……I just cannot subscribe to that view.  

I could just never see where the creativity and goals would come from.

Had NP been given the opportunity to use the Alex Scott money, I think we could potentially have had a bit of a go, but the second that was denied, I could never see us being anything more than mid-table. 

No offence but I don’t think that is good analogy at all.

No one is on here moaning about “Lansdown said we were getting promoted and now we aren’t, I want my promotion they promised”

No one is complaining because we aren’t getting promoted this season. No one is saying that’s what they expected. It’s the club talking about promotion. 99% knew it was unrealistic.

The issue for me is the disconnect between what they say and the reality. Why do they say it?

Does that matter? That’s the whole debate, should they be held accountable for their comments?

I suppose it depends on what you think of their role as stewards of the club? 

Is Bristol City there simply to exist or to genuinely strive to get as far up the pyramid as possible?

I think when the club say one thing and do another they open themselves up to criticism and I think it’s fair for fans to ask those questions about the methodology - especially if the aim is more than simply ‘existing’

51 minutes ago, phantom said:

Thank you, you have confirmed that nobody actually said anything about guaranteeing top 6 etc, just that we want to get promoted this year

Perhaps people can stop using that line now as it is proven to be incorrect?

Certainly not the first City Manager in recent times that have been expected to cut costs etc and stay in the league

Yes there is no direct “top 6” quote (although to all but the most belligerent, top 6 is implied in the word promotion) - actually I think what they said was worse - “promotion” specifically mentioned on numerous occasions.

So note for everyone on OTIB - yes the club didn’t want Manning to simply get us into the top 6 - they wanted PROMOTION.

Just for future yard stick reference in discussions regarding his performance.
 

Happy for mods to pin this comment to avoid future confusion. 

5 hours ago, phantom said:

Again, nobody actually said it 

For those that keep quoting the top six comments, I'm pretty sure that's a misquote as well 

Though we were promised European football under LJ weren't we? 

Really? Why do people keep saying they never said this?!?…..:

“We all wanted Nigel to achieve our ambition to be promoted but, with our recent results, feel that now is the time to make a change to give the club the best possible chance of success.” - JL

‘We want to get promoted this year' - Bristol City board on decision to sack Nigel Pearson - from Gavin Marshall

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/jon-lansdown-talks-about-coaching-change/ 

Takes JL 30 seconds to mention premier league and best squad we’ve had here in my time - to name a few quick quotes.

28 minutes ago, Ashtongreight said:

Context comes before, ie that was his target when he arrived, excuses are afterwards if the target is not communicated at the beginning. That’s why we were patient with him, he levelled with us from the beginning. 
 

edit

compare that to this time when the communication was LM would improve us THIS season, hence why many judge LM so harshly, now it IS excuses.

Presume you’re referring in first paragraph to Pearson? Second Manning.

I don’t disagree with you - but my point is what do both those statements have in common? 

The one denominator - Steve Lansdown and his board - A) Pearson and Gould clearing up THEIR mess and B) Manning getting it from the fans because THEY again set him up for failure with their top 6 comments.

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

Of course. We should always strive to achieve and be successful. I was merely trying to provide some context. 

Plus, I remember some serious investment a few seasons back but that landed us in huge financial peril after Covid. It was not such a long ago we were second in the league at Christmas as a result of that investment. It’s not easy getting the balance right. 

As I say, one man’s context is another man’s excuses…

The second paragraph is more examples of mismanagement and underachievement - yes Steve did, relatively, have a go a few years ago. I say relatively, because it was still upper mid table budgets and we basically spent what we sold. 

But does that mean we don’t ever have a go again?

Or rather should the club learn from its mistakes and not gamble on putting unproven people in hugely important positions in the club? 
 

Maybe bring in someone trustworthy and experienced as CEO…like Gould instead of Ashton.

And a manager who’s been there and done it, like Pearson instead of Johnson.

Oh wait, we had those, but now we’re back to unproven again in Tinnion and Manning - and without the investment - and we should all just say oh well, it is what it is.

10 hours ago, firstdivision said:

I think play-offs is out of reach as we stand (ie before summer recruitment - but it will need something significant to make us top six).  Success next season (for me) is top ten with some exciting performances. 
Failure is flirting with relegation/still looking  over our shoulder with ten games left. 

I think this league is brutal and there will be crap games and some poor performances. (I see myself as a realist.) We should kind of accept that , however frustrating it is.

I’ve no idea whether LM will ‘succeed’ or not, but I have some patience. I never bought the hierarchy’s supposed suggestion that we were capable of top six this season. They didn’t fund a big/strong enough squad for that. I take a lot of what football people say with a pinch of salt.

I can’t stand many of the unequivocal postings on this forum. They lack nuance and context. And I don’t like the personal attacks on LM. But that’s the world we live in: too much social media short-termism and knee-jerk reactions. Thirty years ago we went down the pub after a game, or whatever, and ranted with two or three mates about  a performance. Now we come on here and other sites, and everything is amplified. It’s nuts, frankly. Plus, some people take themselves far too seriously. I’ve hardly posted recently because I can’t be bothered with the aggro. 

Only two Bristol City managers in history have succeeded in getting us into the top division and I don’t even know the name of the first one. Mid-table in the Championship is not the worst place to be. Ten seasons in the Championship have been pretty good compared to many of the other forty-four seasons I’ve witnessed. I’d like to see us in the PL before I die but it’s a damn hard thing to achieve. It needs wisdom, skill, money, patience and luck. I’m not holding my breath. 

I really hate losing and I want every BC manager to succeed. I don’t mind a sacking (ruthless when necessary) but I think LM deserves more time. I’m surprised you’ve nailed your colours this early in his tenure but that’s your prerogative. I’ve seen good and bad under LM and I expect that will continue under him and every other BC manager I’ll see. Because that’s pretty much football life. 

 

I agree with much of your post, it's a very sensible, realistic one.

But I just want to pick up on your sentences in bold - I've seen this kind of comment quite a lot on here recently:

Something along the lines of "this is the way it's alway's been with City" or "it used to be much worse" and "it's football, it's tough, nothing's a given" etc etc.

And I just don't like it. At all - it's so...defeatist. So unambitious. So mediocre.

Do you think that's the attitude Ipswich have at the moment? Or Luton before them. Or Brentford before them? I could go on.

Yes it's a tough league and nothing is a given, but we should as a club and a fan base, be striving and demanding so much more from the club, even with the level of investment, IMO, we should be competing higher up the league.

The reason's for that have been done to death - but I personally don't subscribe to this "it is what it is" attitude. 

I believe the "10 seasons in the championship" is not necessarily the badge of honour you think. Why:

Well IMO mid-table championship is Bristol City's par - the fact we've spent so much time under that level shows how we've underachieved as a club and the fact we've been talking about 'potential' for 20 years shows every year more at mid-table in the championship is not fulfilling our potential.

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Not really. They are still bound by ffp. 

Of course - but gives them the funds to push FFP to the limit.

Look at us, we must have a nice buffer in our FFP, but if Lansdown uses the revenue from Scott and Semenyo, for example, to pay for wages and other running costs, instead of ploughing back into squad, that FFP buffer means nothing.

Ipswich can afford to spend what they earn, and Ashton will no doubt be maxing those revenue streams, all the while there is little jeopardy over the funds.

Can they not also use it for development, academy etc? Go cat 1 and use the funds to outgun other clubs in area for best youngsters etc etc.