Alessandro

Again - contradictions in the various lines being put out there.

Personally I think given the pretty good record DR had over previous seasons, that this "offence" of giving them a week off to rest, is hardly a sackable offence. Also In JE's case.

Especially when you scrutinise the details - who actually are we talking about getting injured since/during the international break? 

Williams - impact injury in training.

Naismith?

James - impact injury vs Ipswich 

So the reality is the difference between the line ups pre (Leeds) and post (Coventry) last international break was 2 players, Nays and Williams? Doesn't align with the story that the week off has caused more trouble. On the contrary, maybe the rest helped the recovery of others?? Weimann, Conway etc.

Hardly sackable...

44 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

I’m not getting into an internet back and forth on the ‘point to where I said blah’. They never end well. 

In this case it won't end well for you because I haven't said what accused me of, as you've now realised. But let's leave that there now...
 

it’s not just you I’m picking up and agree you are more measured than the real name calling posts. And yes, I am annoyed by those as I don’t think they are properly justified yet apart from by hearsay and echo chamber. And I think they go hand in hand with belittling a man who clearly cares about this club more than most, clearly knows a lot about football, and has played a leading part in turning our awful youth dev around. 

Agreed he's done a great job in terms of the academy, along side others. Recruitment, along side others work, has had a better focus and is less scattergun - although the success of it, we are yet to fully see. Signs are good. The crown jewels however, future nest eggs if you like, are still the academy players at the moment...
 

But I would say phrases like ‘to suddenly go from radio co host’ and ‘lies and arrogance’ go beyond an objective critique of his job performance. I know you will disagree with that. 

The radio show was reference to fans perception of him. It is a fact that it was on RobinsTV that fans saw and heard from Tinnion the most, unless it was to do with the academy.

R.E Lies and Arrogance - referring to both JL and BT - I presume you haven't seen the 'Prince Andrew' esque interviews they did?

But again, not particularly singling you out.  I’m really against all this personal and professional abuse of a man I think deserves a lot more respect, who loves the club and is obviously so proud of the youth pathway. But all that aside, a man that has done a good professional job in each role he’s been given in recent years and so has earned promotions  

Yep again, agree, he has done an excellent job with the academy and I am more than happy with him staying there, or with his role in recruitment for now. The issue for me, and for others who've replied to you - is the recent promotion. And the manner of it.

We've gone from 2 very highly qualified and experienced CEO's - one left us for a very high level national job, the other with years of premier league experience, fired after 3 months. 

This job, key key job, CEO - is then seemingly not advertised and Tinnion is shuffled upwards/sideways into a morphed version of it - in a manner that smacks of Lansdown cronyism - has he earned a shot at the job? Maybe, but in any other world, in such a high level role, you advertise and interview other people and pick the best candidate. Then it's earned IMO.  But in this case, for me it's the potential to be Holden all over again, let's see how it works out this time. I'd love to be wrong.

Not really much more to say as I know I won’t change minds of those who have decided Tinns is some kind of cancer in the club. And I’m similarly unlikely to change my mind and suddenly start thinking that he is. 

Haven't seen anyone calling him a cancer at the club - the cronyism certainly is, but not Tinnion. I don't doubt his work ethic or love of BCFC and for that I hope it works out - but as I say, the manner of the reshuffles and his alleged involvement in Pearson's sacking leaves me with more questions than answers.

 

 - replied within

3 minutes ago, Ian M said:

*condemned

(Condoned means you approve of it)

 Run out of emoji's again - thank you!!

49 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

No words put in your mouth at all. I actually left out your worst words to give you benefit of the doubt. 
 

Re does that qualify him - if I do well in my job, I get promoted. And if I do well in that role, I get promoted again. That is what qualifies you for the next job up. And that is exactly what he’s done. He was not handed on a plate the technical director job. He’s progressed on merit. And now in role, time will tell if he’s qualified. But what would show him as unqualified is if he was too scared to voice his own football opinions. 

Just for clarity, what were my "worst words"? 

And also can you find the point where I said BT has "done nothing for the club since he's been brought back"?

So yes, you have put words in my mouth.

You may be annoyed with people giving Tinnion abuse, you seem very protective of him, fine - but I am not one of those people giving him personal abuse, i've actively it actually. So go and reply to those people directly about that if you want, not me.

This is a BCFC football forum, all i'm doing is debating the job he's doing at BCFC and the quality of his opinion. 

4 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Agree with part 1

Completely disagree with part 2

Lies and arrogance are subjective as nothings been proven and it's been hearsay rumours and conspiracy .

There's no justification for the personal crap thrown about on here towards him, even if you don't think he's good at his job.

There's no decorum on the forum in large parts and there's more than one way to skin a cat fans are absolutely better than this.

Agree apart from bold part. Those following OTIB for the last 2 weeks (or even following the club for the last 20 years!) have seen everything that has panned out called virtually to the day - there is more than enough information out there to blow holes in what SL and the board are saying vs. doing...again.

1 minute ago, the1stknowle said:

But he’s not a radio co host is he. And there is ample evidence that he has done well in the footballing jobs he has been given over last several years.
 

Unless you are saying it is pure coincidence that we have gone from never producing a youth asset who does anything with their career to a fairly consistent pipeline of players of interest to top flight  

I don’t get these straw man arguments. Can people not disagree with Tins without rewriting history and saying he’s done nothing for club since they brought him back? 

I think you've put a few words in my mouth there.

As I said, I feel for him - he clearly has played a big role, alongside many others, in finally getting our academy sorted and up and running and producing at the levels it should have 10/15 years ago. No one is taking that away from him.

My question would be, does that qualify him for the role he's now in? Personally i'd like a more ambitious appointment - but as always, we wait and see and time will tell, as it always does in the end what his legacy will ultimately be. 

11 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

That suggests he is definitely instrumental in the firing.  Doing some daft video, that effectively says nothing, isn't proof of that.  Unless we were privy to the actual conversations, we cannot know.  At best, all BT is guilty of is moral cowardice. He didn't stick up for Nigel enough, make his case to the owner. Potentially, because he was worried about his own job security.  I've been there. Saw a colleague unfairly blamed for something (while the real culprits were forgiven) and demoted and effectively constructively dismissed by management. Moaned a bit behind the scenes but didn't rock the boat too much with the decision maker as I didn't want to follow my colleague out of the door, 

Yes this is very true - could well be self-preservation.

When the, absolutely spot on, rumours about NP's sacking, even down to the timing of it - were starting to appear on OTIB weeks before the event....so too were very strong rumours, from the same sources, that Tinnion was briefing against NP, at the time along the lines of "he never comes to training anymore...". 

So I think a few are inclined to believe that too, given the rest was all true - yeah we don't know if he was leading or following though, but he is a key (one of 3) part of the process, that's the job he took.

9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

And now folk are calling him a "snayk".

Anyway, leaving aside his written English, I suppose the nuance is whether he is fearful of losing his job and was told to do the video to support the management position. At 55 and settled back in the area, he probably wants City to be his last employer before retirement. You might say it's cowardly not to stand up for Pearson in that way, but how many of us have resigned our jobs when a colleague has been unfairly treated?

Of course, if he has been one of the instigators of Pearson's heave-ho, then he's either horribly Machiavellian or thick (or both).  There's a world of difference between saying to NP "Really do you reckon Kingy at centre back? Knight-Lebel is more than ready to step up in my view" and going to Jon (or Steve) Lansdown and saying "Nigel's f-ing it all up! He's playing people out of position and he won't give the academy boys a chance to show what they can do!"

Unlike some on this thread, I think Tins does deserve some credit for his work with the academy (not to mention his sterling efforts when a player for us). IF he's engineered this sacking so he can be a de facto DoF then he's a backstabber and beyond contempt. Lansdown should remember how poor a manager Tinnion made - wedded to playing his friends and unable to adapt the side to adjust to circumstances. However, there is an IF there. 

I do feel a bit sorry for Tinnion TBH - Clearly a Bristol City man through and through, in large part due to the fact that the vast majority of his footballing life has been at BCFC.

But there's the problem - good player, failed (badly) manager. Little CV outside our club and what the fans see is him working his way up the greasy pole and it looks like more cronyism, something that is cancerous at this club under SL.

Suddenly he's going from being co-host of Robins TV and being the go to man for youth prospect info and development...to being instrumental in firing one of the most popular managers for decades, and people are rightly asking, hang on, how did that happen. Has he earned that? Clearly many think, no.

Pearson vs. Tinnion on footballing matters...sorry there's only one winner. 

A very harsh lesson these past two weeks for Tinnion that with power comes responsibility and consequences.

2 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

See we're still on the 'classy' responses

'thick'

'cant spell'

And whatever else has been chucked at him with gay abandon.

But then also a machivelian mastermind who's orchestrated a coup by usurping Nige.

This saga is definitely bringing out the worst in people and still it continues with terms of personal abuse for someone doing their job. 

Wonder where today will end up going 

I agree there are too many personal attack on here at the moment but I do feel the vast majority of posts are sensible debate based around 'performance' rather than 'personalities'.

However; not as a justification, but discussion point - the disdain with which Lansdown(s) and Tinnion have treated the fans (or should I say customers) with the - strong words but a spade's a spade - lies and arrogance of a) their words and actions and b) those 2 awful, awful statement interviews - frankly if that's the way you treat people, you set yourself for it.

59 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Loving the conspiracy theories on here.

So the inference is that players and coaches were holding players back so we would struggle ?

That being short of first teamers was a ploy by who exactly ? 

Really interested in the reasoning behind this. 

Nige and the medical staff he put in place, plus the coaches he put in place and the players , have been hypnotised into thinking 12 players were injured when they were fine?
That now , with Pearson gone , Jon snapped his fingers ( as it says in his online "hypnotism for Idiots" course) and they are all suddenly fit ? 

Pearson said most of the injuries were contact and players wouldn't be out too long. In the Ipswich preview he said Vyner was close and a couple of others would be looked at. 
I would hope Vyner , Wells and maybe one or two others could at least make the bench.

 

Don't think anyone has suggested any injury conspiracy theories, or anything along the lines of your active imagination there...you seem to be the one jumping to conclusions IMO.....?!

More that on Sunday NP and DR were fired, in part due to injuries and a day or so later, 4 key players (who DR would have got/been getting back to fitness) and NP would soon have at his disposal - are back in training. 

They would have known that and therefore not giving NP a chance to see how we get on with a few less injuries - given with a fuller squad we've been in/within touching distance of the play offs (the clubs expectation, as we've been told...) - would have seemed fair.

I think IMO people are more interested in the continued 'contradictions' coming out of the hierarchy of the club. 

1 hour ago, Glen hump said:

Williams now 16-1 with skybet 

5-1 now - you lot been splashing out?!

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

(Catching up, not read the responses, so apologies if covered by others)

Exactly that, just be honest….a simple “we didn’t think Nige was the man to deliver with this squad”.  I’d respect that, instead they’ve skirted around it.

Some other digs in there too.

++++++

To digress away from the actual interview for a minute…I’ve read a lot about Tins over the past week or so, suggesting shit-stirring, etc.

I can obviously comment on that (I have!), whether I think it has legs or not, etc, etc.  But I don’t know.  The message I saw forwarded from him by someone I know suggested shit-stirring, but I never saw the rest of the conversation so context is everything isn’t it?

FWIW, what is done is done, there’s been a huge backlash.  The hierarchy need to deal with it and do better with the fans than they are.

But, going forward this is now Tinnion’s “set-up”, it will be his appointment ultimately, he was the conduit on recruitment in the summer too.  I’m not gonna sit here and revise my view, I thought summer recruitment was good, it just lacked 2 more players to give that bit of depth required.  That’s why we’ve suffered imho.

+++++++

Back to the interview.

The new manager (Head-Coach) should not have to majorly change the squad, it was recruited for in the way Tinnion describes, aggressive, pace, etc.  This is not a change.  This was the recruitment profile in March 2022 when @Harry and I (and two others) met the club and were presented to by RG and SG.  So, there should not be a case of the new manager saying the wrong players are here, they don’t meet the profile.  That’s three windows of exactly that have passed (at least - I’m sure that player profile want dreamed up last Spring), this winter being the fourth.  And in fairness I think they’ve tried to recruit to it, and it’s generally been better than before Nige came in.

So it is more about getting the current players back on the pitch asap.

Some “digs” in the interview re injuries / fitness.

Despite my disappointment / anger at Nige being sacked, the expectations are clear of the new appointment.  Importantly there is clarity of what the manager will be expected to do.  That will rule-out some, rule-in others.

From this point onwards accountability / responsibility is 100% clear.  Through SL / JL to GM / TR and into Tinnion and his new head-coach and staff, there can no longer be “division” at any level or between levels, there can no longer be scapegoats.

THIS IS THEIRS TO OWN

I hope it’s a success, I’m a City fan first and foremost.

Good post - as far as they are concerned it's all clearer than ever - 

"THE TESTAMENT OF TINNION"

• Challenging the top 6 is expected.
• They believe this squad is good enough for that.
• Tinnion is leading the football side, our DOF in all but name and therefore ultimately responsible.
• Ethos/style is clear, high energy and press/buy cheap and develop - manager will work to that.

So over to you then gents...

But all joking aside, we all want this to work, don't **** it up Tinnion.

All emotions aside - whose football judgement do you trust more?

Jon Landsown and Brian Tinnion

or 

Nigel Pearson and Dave Rennie

I know the answer to that all week and unfortunately the former have the casting vote.

At least they've both spoken finally (chickened out of an actually outside interview) but it's a huge number of contradictions in both statements and the most worrying question for me is, do they actually believe what they're saying?? Because if they do, we are ****** with these guys at the helm.

To be fair to them actually - today and tonight they will be busy on the phone to the agents of the managers that they will be lining up for interviews over next 2 days. Offer the job Wednesday - Thursday he goes home to mull it over. Friday in to meet players. Saturday introduced to the fans and watching the game.

18 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Listen to "Sound Of The City"  tonight, should be very interesting. It would have been better if Geoff Twentyman was still presenting.

Tinnion was bullish on twitter about being on Sound of the City - so presume he's stepping up tonight? Will be interesting to hear...

Timing of the next appointment will be interesting - feels like this time it needs to be a quick appointment.

• Earlier this week - they were already pretty much lined up.
• End of week/early next week - see above or TBF to the club they've got a plan, drawn up a list and got their man quickly.
• Anything into end of next week or week after - They had no plan and I will be worried the process not going as easily as they expected i.e targets are turning us down.

IMO the new man should be at the Sheff Wednesday game, at least watching, if not in full charge yet.

Superb article @Ron W 

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

I bow to the superior knowledge that the likes of yourself and @spudski and @Davefevs have when it comes to tactics and styles.

But what you describe is exactly what I’ve said a number of times both before and after yesterdays sacking: we have a terrible track record of managing any sort of transition in a way that provides continuity and consistency.

We either change everything completely. Or we seem to equate consistency with an internal appointment and all that they’ve given us is consistent disappointment.

I’m not as furious as many others over NPs departure, but I’m utterly depressed at the prospect of us making the same mistake again.

Just out of interest, do any of the three of you see anyone among the lists of potential names who’d provide us with a smoother transition? Are there others whose ethos and style would fit better with the players we’ve got? 

Well we presume what will be expected from the new coach stays the same: develop youth, buy cheap and add value. Make the squad greater than the sum of it's parts. Work within tight (midtable) budgets.

Eustace and Rowett have both done some of those things, but with quite defensive/hard to beat styles of play. Eustace fired in part IIRC for the football not being exciting enough for the owners?

I really don't know - some of my best options I would say are in jobs currently. Could we poach someone like Liam Rosenior or more realistically a Steven Schumacher type? Micheal Duff widely considered an excellent coach at improving players too. 

The bigger names not in jobs I don't see working under all of those above conditions, unless SL promises them big cash to spend (change of strategy, again).

43 minutes ago, spudski said:

If it does turn out to be Rowett appointed, then this is a recent and decent analysis of his style of play whilst at Millwall. 

I can't see how he will be a decent fit with the players we have to hand. 

Interesting that it mentions he was released as the board were disappointed he couldn't achieve the play offs...

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/team-analysis/efl-championship-202324-millwall-tactical-analysis-tactics

For all those fans saying, big deal sacking NP, he's just an expendable coach, a new one can come in and progress the team....here is the reality.

That theory only works if you have a succession strategy, you have a vision and a plan - in terms of playing ethos and style and therefore manager. Do we have that??

Rowett appears, in footballing style terms, is very different to NP. So the squad NP has assembled doesn't on paper appear to suit Rowett's style. 

So from a squad/footballing point of view, SL could have us back at square one, with a manager (In Rowett's case with little/no record of success) who treads water for rest of season, wants a whole load of cash to rebuild in Jan/Summer and so the Lansdown cycle of stagnation goes on. 

27 minutes ago, mozo said:

This is my thinking too. There are plenty of available managers with experience at this level, and their agents might look at City as a great option for their clients, but as soon as they've had the chat with the 'board' and realise the limitations they'd have to deal with, they might think better of it.

The only unlikely alternative is that the board were squirreling the Scott money for the inevitable new manager.... (hey, I said unlikely!)

Yeah I don't want to be too negative because we are, or at least very much should be, an exciting prospect for a new manager. The potential is there.

But for me, if I was a Dean Smith, Chris Wilder or John Eustace etc, i'd be left with a lot of questions about the job - the fact the owners are publicly trying to sell the club, the manner of NP's sacking, the available funds, will they have to continue to sell their best players, the current state of the squad etc etc. The management structure/board of the club would have any top coach concerned IMO - are the right people in the right places to enable them to do their job successfully?

Irony is for all the development we've seemingly made as a club, now we're looking again for a new head coach, I feel like, and SL will find out again, we're still in a position where the best calibre managers at our level would rather stay on gardening leave and hold out for a 'better offer'.  

Again, I hope i'm wrong...

Maybe it's just me being negative, but sleeping on it, i'd be concerned that some of the more qualified managers on the available list simply won't take the job if offered anyway.

We'll see - but if they read the clubs statement after sacking Nige (TOP 6?!) and look at the tools they'd have available....we've traditionally failed to get top, upcoming managers in anyway under SL....for some reason - I fear this trend will continue.

Hope to be wrong. Rowett, doesn't particularly inspire me...but I actually fear for worse TBH.

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Yep, usually just makes people sound very self important to me because guess what - pretty much everyone thinks they're being rational.

Usually an indicator people struggle to see or accept another point of view in my experience.

Merge - This is just a view point from someone who wants their voice heard louder and have said nothing that can't be said on the "He's Gone" or many other threads already.

Just had a look on twitter to gauge the mood there and not just on OTIB - fair to say it's 100's if not 1000's of near 99% universal support of Pearson and disagreement of the club from both City fans and other football fans alike. 

EDIT - Same on Instagram - so much so that the club's social media team have (re)posted 3 away kit posts to try and push the NP leaving post out the lime light...

I’m not going to go all in on Tinnion regarding this decision, as it will have been SL’s don’t be in any doubt  - but I have been quietly surprised at his gradual promotions up the ladder to positions that I’m not sure his experience, talent or ability is quite qualified for…actually that sounds quite harsh, apologies