Ron W

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

True... However, like I implied, he was last man and being closed down fast.

Make that error in midfield, which happens often, as in closed down and misplaced pass, and it often goes unnoticed, is seen as part of the game, and often goes unpunished. And no one mentions it. 

That's true, but not if it leads to a goal. Aaronson was a good example for Leeds against West Ham on Wednesday and got rightly criticised.

20 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't put all the blame if any on Atkinson.

If any? It was a hospital pass from MOL but an awful error. There was no-one anywhere near where he was passing it to.

A positive view on a 25-minute good spell at home to a team who have won one of their last seven away games - and even with that were controlling the whole game for more than an hour - seems very optimistic.

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Not saying motivation isn’t a “thing” but lack of motivation was not the reason Atkinson literally showed the technique of a Suburban League Division 7 player for their first goal. And if you think that is unfair you are correct, unfair to Division 7 players more like Division 9….

No it's not, that's not the point I was replying to but concentration and focus aren't totally unconnected from the manager's influence either.

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That’s a bit simplistic though if you bother to think about it. Players don’t or shouldn’t be walking off the Coach at 11:15am this morning not giving a **** and waiting for Nige to tell them “we’ll fight them on the pavements”, “make sure you give these ******* Jack ***** a good hiding” etc. etc.

There is a large degree of self motivation involved in pro football.

Saying motivation is just about the team talk is definitely a simplification. Man management and trust are built on the training pitch and in the manager's office as much as on a match day. Then you need to build the right team too and have the right characters, but it's a definite balance.

5 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Why ? Why do you need motivating to play football for a living. It’s just a cop out 

I think there are very few players or managers who would agree.

Just now, steviestevieneville said:

Why do you keep mentioning motivation . Do you need someone to  motivate you to go to work . Biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard 

Saying motivating a team isn't a part of football management would certainly be a new take.

3 minutes ago, Vidal said:

In which case he then plays advantage, he didn’t put his arms out. He hasn’t stuck to the rule book.

You're not going to change your mind on this but the yellow incident was about a second after Scott's foul. There was so little time between them that not waving for an advantage is irrelevant.

2 minutes ago, Vidal said:

If he had given the free kick his arm would be out stretched to signify an advantage as Swansea were breaking, he didnt, therefore he hasn’t given the free kick. He only signifies a decision after the challenge on Scott which shows he has made it up .

He could've just taken his time to make the decision. Not unusual.

Just now, Vidal said:

The ref hasn’t given it , so therefore it’s not a foul.

He did give it, he gave them a free-kick.

2 minutes ago, Vidal said:

Seen the clip re Scott, the ref didn’t play advantage for Swansea so therefore we should have had a penalty. Awful refereeing .

Scott fouled him first, it's not a penalty.

Much better since the goal but there's no excuse for being this bad for 70 minutes.

10 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Looks like a few taking some pleasure in a young man’s current misfortune/downward spiral (probably the wrong words!). 
 

As @Numero Unostates, let’s hope he gets back to enjoying his football and a settled period for him. 

He's young and hopefully sorts himself out, but as others have said he should let his football do the talking because at the moment, his comments about Pearson when he left look pretty silly. He had a poor attitude at Yeovil too, partly why Cooper got rid.

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Don't get me wrong, LJ isn't perfect, he has his problems, you don't get the nick name of Streaky Lee for nothing. His biggest problem imo, is trying to overcomplicate the way a team plays...trying to play in a way that the players aren't capable of. Glen Hoddle was the same. Trying to get progression with players that weren't capable of doing it. Judging the ability of a squad is paramount.

I think this nails it. He has a masterclass video on the Coach's Voice website recorded during his time at Sunderland.

It's aimed at coaches, and I'm no expert on the lingo players are taught on the training ground to fully judge.

It was very intricate and thought-out, and you could appreciate the planning that had gone into it. But he didn't come across as particularly charismatic and to a layman it felt technical to the point that you could see players getting bored and switching off.

10 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Is that not smart game management to recognise an opponents strengths early and adjust your defending style to nullify the threat in a different way? The player he was against got hooked midway through the second half didn't he? That's about as big a win a fullback can have... 

Yes if it’s part of the game plan, but not if it’s because you’re scared of engaging the player. And it looked a lot more like the latter.

Not trying to get at him, he had a great 45 minutes after that and like you said helped get their winger subbed.

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He wasn’t that poor 1st half on Thursday, just that Burey skinned him once (then skinned Vyner which amplifies Burey’s threat), other than that he did ok.

He was that bad IMO. Got done more than once and ended up refusing to engage his man because he was scared of getting beaten. Looked a different player in the second half.

Would've hooked him at half-time against Millwall on Thursday but credit to him, he showed some real character to stick at it and was excellent second half. Sounds like he was today too.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

OTIB forgets that Rob “lost” his place when he pulled out pre-game Swansea with an illness.  Vyner initially played centrally, then King, who had a couple of decent games and Naismith came back fit too.  This coincided with perhaps a reminder to him that he needed to do a bit better, and as per Nige’s selection policy, King had a dodgy game and a bit, Rob improved in training and he comes back in.

The manner of Nigel's 'reminder' definitely didn't need to be that abrasive. That's just him at times, but most other managers wouldn't have reacted publicly in the same way he did.

That said, it was nice to see him raise a wry smile after the game last night as he said Atkinson "showed what a good player he can be".

9 minutes ago, RedNachos said:

Don’t see how Nige gets any credit - dropped him due to a personal vendetta. Then through popular demand  recalls him and he peforms.

Probably not through popular demand but losing patience with King's poor performances but yes, still entirely a situation of his own making and just as contradictory.

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

No don’t get me wrong. I can explain things too far in one way. The point is fine and anyone would be happy with it. I just did not see a special side with Millwall. We were smart and didn’t concede many things that would cause us problems. Well done for that and I mean it. If the plan was to come to Millwall and grind out a 0-0 we played great. 
 

My issue is we can’t be solid defensively without looking dismal going forward. We also can’t look good going forward without looking dismal at the back. This pattern is an ever present under NP. What we saw tonight we have seen before. It may lead to a run where we pick up some points but it’ll go south again. I just can’t come on here and say 0-0 at Millwall we are progressing when I don’t think we are.
 

Imo, we saw self preservation from NP tonight. Agent come out saying how well he has done. Get a point away at a bordering playoff side who actually is not that good. Then come out and say how thankful you are to the fans that travelled after what he said last time out. It is all a facade to me. 

Yeah that's fair enough, dismal going forward is a bit harsh though. Millwall haven't scored many but they've conceded even less. Only two more than Burnley.

I agree though, Millwall didn't look on their top form and some of their fans have mentioned them being poor. But we played a part in that, tonight was about getting back to basics (in the team selection too). If we only do that all season we'll not do much, but we needed some solidity to build from and we got it.

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I just don’t see it that way. They aren’t free scoring(29 goals in 24 games). Yes we nullified them but they aren’t prolific. We just didn’t give away too many corners or set pieces around our penalty area. We didn’t capitalise on their mistakes and didn’t look like breaking them down otherwise. Now breaking them down I am fine with giving credit to Millwall for but they were generally unbothered by us. 

They know how to grind out wins and make the most of set pieces and momentum, but how many times did they even get a chance to do that tonight? We switched off from one throw and that was it.

We’re 18th and lost our last two games, we weren’t going to become world beaters over night. There’s not many worse places to come when you’re out of form and being questioned than a physical bullying at The Den but we stood up to everything thrown at us.

On the balance of it I don’t know how there’s not clear positives in the context of where we are at the moment. Or even if we weren’t. Are there more than a few teams in this league who wouldn’t be satisfied with a point at Millwall?

10 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t really get the optimism from tonight. We won’t be staying up with performances like that. Even our chances were off Millwall mistakes not great play. Defensively was fine but wingbacks didn’t really get forward and the 2 cm sit deep. Should be solid. Whatever Millwall have done in their past games does not really interest me. They are nothing special and if you put the sides up side by side there would be little difference in quality. Yet they are 8th and we are 18th

Millwall would’ve gone fourth if they won. We largely nullified them, played the better football and had the better chances. If Weimann’s chance had gone in it would’ve been a perfect away performance.

I know watching us at AG recently anyone think every away side outplays the home side but we were a decent part of the reason they got booed off tonight. We did a proper job on a team who’ve done very well this season.

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I suppose when confidence is lacking and the pressure is on, despite some home performances which outstripped results, you have to start somewhere. Tough away game, vs a side in and around the top 6- showed more technical ability and composure in possession in 2nd half but clearly we had gained in confidence from our 1st half display- earning the right to play a bit is sometimes required.

Yeah agree with all of that. All the first half lacked was composure… In fact all the second half lacked was composure too, just at the other end.

Hard-earned and we’ll deserved point, with the only frustration it really should’ve been three.

I appreciate what you’re saying @Davefevs and there were times Millwall pressured our back line and we took the safe option. No issue with that.

But there were also plenty of occasions - and Vyner was especially guilty of this before HT - where there’d be a ball across the box, no one near us, and we’d still treat the ball like a hot potato with a poor hurried clearance. There have been plenty of City sides struggling for confidence with the ball down the years and that had plenty of the hallmarks of one for 45 minutes.

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But you earn the right to play like that second half because of how you battle first half.  Instruction will’ve been pre-match:

- they’re gonna swarm you, just turn them around when you can’t play

- don’t do anything stupid, go long rather than risk a ball into midfield where their 2+3 outnumber our 2+1

- WBs can go high for diag outball

Don’t give them a head start, we didn’t, we grew into the first half, had a good 10 min spell, that gave us the confidence to be a bit less cautious second half.

It really is a standard approach to being the away team, especially one in our position.  If we were top 6 and flying I might think very differently.

I enjoyed both halves for different reasons.

Gary Rowett won’t be calling us a soft team tonight.

Pring and Tanner’s physicality a help tonight.

I think this is quite generous to us first half. There’s dealing with their physical element and not making needless dangerous passes, and there’s hoofing it under no pressure which we did repeatedly.

I’d put it more down to nerves than team instructions, because we looked uncomfortable when we had possession and needed to calm things down, take our time, look up. When we did that after HT we were comfortably the better side.

42 minutes ago, Spike said:

A lot of names thrown about today but Pring has been brilliant I think, great under pressure, good putting players under pressure, passing has been solid too and he's given as good as he's got.

Totally agree, good at both ends of the pitch. It was a shame we didn’t use him more, very tidy on the ball.