Rich

Don't be daft, I think you meant to say, "they've been given the whole of Bury" for the weekend.

EP won't dig and discredit the family club, seeing as it's part of their family. It's all kept quiet and in house when it comes to BRFC. If this were BCFC, could you imagine the calls for heads to roll, public debates organised and attended to by EP, Radio Bristol, MPs, local councillors, supporters groups, plus anyone opposed to it at the outset if they were brave enough to attend?

This is from memory mind. I know of the deals at the time, and I'm certain it wasn't sold while in the rugby club ownership.

I'm quite certain that land was sold by BRFC (Dunford) for nearly £4m a few years after purchasing the rugby ground in 1998 for just over £2m. Good business, I wonder why the rugby club didn't think to do that? It was sold for housing, with the houses being built and first sales from what I could gather on Zoopla in 2006. Some gasheads argue that the rugby club sold it but, I'm sure it was much later, the deal was reported in the EP, with a figure of something like £3.87m. If I had access to the land registry site, I'd look it up but, you have to pay. Other than that, you have to check the EP archives.

No I don't. All we have here is the description of events from one of the two parties that were the instigators of the deal. We don't actually know if there was an offer from an insurance company, or that there was an offer from Amtrak. There is only hearsay of so called offers/interest from other parties, and firm evidence that a deal was struck between two people with vested interests for the deal to proceed. Obviously the deal arranged between Dunford and Holmes, appeared better for the rugby club, because they would keep a 50% share of their ground but, it included this buy out clause which instantly disposed of either parties assets for £10k, which were substantial and, to the detriment of either companies creditors. You have to remember that Holmes initiated their debt in the first place, by sanctioning the building of the centenary stand. Something that the rugby club had previously decided was unaffordable. As explained, there was only one club that would really benefit from this deal, BRFC, and, only one club at the time, that was losing enough money on a weekly basis to put it at risk. Simple arithmetic and past knowledge of the rugby clubs financial commitments would have been enough to know this clause was detrimental and that the outcome was unavoidable. The person at the top and in charge of that business must have known it's precarious financial position, yet still signed up to this agreement. As a result of it's financial status, he filed for bankruptcy within five months of signing that contract.

Yes they did get half the value when it was set up. Unfortunately, they owned all of it before that deal was set up. They effectively sold half, on the major shareholders instructions, then repaid the major shareholder the £2m they owed him. What money the rugby club actually received did very little to alleviate their problems and their major shareholder and then Chairman, Arthur Holmes, filed for bankruptcy, five months after the deal was struck, barely time for the ink to dry.

Very nice of you to come on here and bring your "news". You are welcome to come on here, unlike other sites, unfortunately, if you do bring "news" onto this site to so say correct somebody, please make it accurate. You can get away with misrepresentations on the other site but, not here. Below is the obituary of Arthur Holmes, written on your clubs website in honour of him, by Mr Dunford in 2015. In it, he goes to great lengths to try and justify the deal, which seems rather strange, rather than celebrate the mans life. One wonders why. Please read and digest. By Geoff Dunford Arthur Holmes who passed peacefully away on January 4th aged 90 should be remembered by both Bristol Rugby club and Bristol Rovers with gratitude. Arthur had to deal with rugby turning professional when it was not universally accepted. He carried this financial burden almost on his own. He was also the man who recognised sporting clubs could work closer together for mutual benefit With the advent of professional rugby in the 1990's the top rugby clubs in the country had to make important decisions on their future. Should they turn professional or retain their traditional amateur/semi professional roots? Bristol Rugby Club decided to follow the professional route along with most of the top clubs in England, however, it did not go down well with some of the Bristol purists who either withdrew their financial support or did not contribute to the coffers of Bristol Rugby. This resulted in a lifeline for Bristol Rovers who were still playing in Bath and I was charged with negotiating a lease with Bristol Rugby to return Bristol Rovers to Bristol which was successful. When I first met Arthur Holmes he was struggling to maintain Bristol on a sound financial footing and it seems he was fighting a lone battle. He needed financial support from other Bristol businessmen who were rugby fans, but the professional era was not popular. A deal was on the table to sell The Memorial Ground to a pension company and for the rugby club to rent it back. This was discussed at a Rovers board meeting and it was decided to offer the rugby club the same deal as the pension company but with the added benefit of starting a new company to acquire the stadium (The Memorial Stadium Company) with each club buying 50% of the shareholding for £10,000, and the rugby club would also receive £2.3m to solve their cash flow problems. This option was far better than the pension company offer as it would result in the same amount of cash to the rugby club plus 50% ownership of the ground. I found Arthur Holmes to be a gentleman in his business dealings and as a person. Indeed, he funded personally an amount of £250k to complete the sale to The Memorial Stadium Company as we were still short of funds at the deadline, to ensure Bristol Rugby could retain 50% ownership. (Arthur was made a Vice President of Bristol Rovers in light of this kind gesture.) As we are only too aware in Football, professional sport is a difficult business to balance the books, and without further financial assistance from others who could have made a difference, Arthur, found the finances of professional rugby unsustainable without other benefactors. Indeed, the only time offers of financial help came, it was too late as the club had already entered administration. If either club entered administration, the other had the right to purchase the shares in the stadium company for the initial price of £10k to maintain their trading position, and this is what occurred. Bristol Rugby survived turning professional and like most sports clubs needed very rich benefactors to help them maintain their progress. Arthur Holmes loved rugby, and loved Bristol Rugby Club. If it wasn't for his support the rugby club would have disappeared into the amateur game and Bristol Rovers would still be playing elsewhere. Sometimes history gets twisted into rumour and sub plots, but rest assured, both Bristol Rugby and Bristol Rovers have reasons to thank Arthur Holmes for being in existence today. Arthur, rest in peace, you were a true gentleman, something very rare in sporting circles today. Our thoughts and prayers are with his wife Julie and family. The deal you refer to with Amtrak, was I believe, to purchase the ground for £1m, then rent it back to the rugby club with a distribution center on the car park area. Suddenly there appeared a much better deal for £2m which Arthur negotiated and was better all round because the rugby club still got to own 50% of their own ground, except the rugby club got so little, as £2m was paid back to AH. There was only one club going to go bust and that was Bristol rugby, as they were haemorrhaging money, as on national journalist put it. At the time of the deal I remember a quote from Mr Dunford stating that, this was a great deal for BRFC, as we now have a 50% share in £6m worth of real estate for £2m.

I was referring to how they acquired the ground, Very dodgy! Arthur Holmes was the chairman of the rugby club, he'd been in that position for a little while, evidently, he was also a supporter of BRFC. He'd come in to give stability after professionalism of the rugby union, with Bristol rugby losing lots of money each season. He lent them the money to build their Centenary stand, which without his money, they couldn't afford. After a couple of seasons, he invited BRFC to join as tenants of the rugby club, to help out with finances but, they still kept losing money. He needed his money back (£2M) and a plan was hatched to form the Memorial Stadium Company with a 50% holding between BRFC (Dunford) and the rugby club, (himself). So Bristol rugby received £2m From BRFC (Dunford) in exchange for 50% of the Memorial stadium company and Arthur Holmes got his £2M back. The rugby club were still losing money. As part of the new company formation, it was agreed that if either party should go bankrupt, the other party could purchase the remaining 50% for a figure of £10k. The rugby club were still losing money. Within six months of that agreement, Arthur Holmes (the Chairman) filed for bankruptcy of the rugby club and BRFC(Dunford) exercised the right to purchase the remaining 50% of the shares in the Memorial stadium company. Arthur Holmes was not a well liked man to supporters of the rugby club but, he was made a life president of BRFC, for services to that club. Make of it what you want.

For all the decent gas heads I know out there, I feel sorry for you. I know how I would feel, we went through the ringer in the 80s. Sadly, there aren't many decent gas heads that I know of. I know of many who behave like spoilt bitter brats. And it does appear to run through the club from top to bottom. They were the only sporting association in this region who failed to back Bristol's bid to host world cup matches, the EP tried to represent them by quoting past players and fans but, the club itself failed to support the bid, PETTY bitterness as it would have enhanced our chances of progressing and leaving them in our wake. At the same time, they had a solicitor digging up as much information as possible on dealings between BCFC and the council, through FOI questions and feeding anything he could to those opposing the developments at AG and AV. They really did their utmost to stop our club progressing rather than striving to improve their club. They tried to rob us of our ground, they robbed Bristol rugby of their ground, I believe there was even an attempt to have Baths ground off of them. They keep spouting about failed planning applications yet, the only two they've actually applied for and it is only two formal applications, were successful. Those being the rugby ground, with some dodgy dealings at the final meeting, and South Glos allowing more developments to boost council coffers, on the back of Bristol's population. South Glos wouldn't be there without Bristol. They are so bitter about BCC not finding them a ground that they even formed a political party to oppose them in the local elections, this was while they were paying their council rates to Bath. Then blamed Bristol for it's failed attempts in South Glos. Every regime leading that club has bled them dry. How is it good for the club when Managers, directors and chairmen have sell on clauses for players? This list could go on for page after page, it couldn't happen to a nicer family club, backed by a friendly newspaper. A club who have always clung onto our shirt tails, apart from part of a decade seventy years ago. What goes around, comes around.

Look at all this shyte running around these cones! I knew we shouldn't have let those dirty Gasheads near this training ground.

No, it's, get that ******* camel out of my tent.

Just an after thought. They have sold over three thousand Season tickets recently, at an average of Say £300, that would give receipts of about £900,00. Has that been pocketed, or used in the day to day running, if as suggested they haven't paid some bills?

But more importantly, our registration as a football league club never lapsed, so it's a question of same as before, Bristol City Football Club, continuing to play in the football league. An administrative alteration only, to the administrative side.

Oh, I know he did, (Paul I think) but, George did as well.

Yup. Not been in there for years, since the ruining of North street was forecast by GF himself. East Street and West street seem to be on their knees, and no supermarket to blame, but, his places are doing ok.

I've done exactly the same, they seem bemused.

I found out that Roman glass put my windows in, I had them replaced by Ashton Glass.

And the pitch doesn't slope as much.

Or take most of the seats out, they'd still have more than they have now, even if they took 85,000 out.

Not big enough.

Fair play Bert, I was almost singing along to that.

Both lucky then, that they saw enough to help usher us away from the dark side.

My old man, said be a Rovers fan, well he would have as he was from that persuasion, but, he died in 1977. I can thank him for taking me to watch an FA Cup replay against Halifax in Jan 1967. Attendance 24,000, smoky, damp and could see the floodlights from miles away, what a night! Hooked for life.

Only if you admit that you're afraid of little white bulls.

No. I could show you the picture in my family album, what a picture!