formerly known as ivan

What is it with signing someone and loaning them back ffs! If he can benefit us now then why isn’t he staying with us.

If we are doing this to ensure we get him before he is OOC in the summer, then he isn’t that bothered about signing for us to begin with surely if going elsewhere is a possibility???

5 hours ago, winsaw said:

Totally agree couldn't believe the amount of stick Max was getting from a small number of members last night, makes a mistake and now not good enough for league 1  he's won us more points than he's lost us this year,

 

Can you back this up? I recall the Sunderland game, two worldie saves. 

What other games has he won us points?

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

Maybe but anything else  is wishful thinking.  Because on what basis is the expectation of more in anyway realistic - it can’t be based on any history at this level.

The sacking of NP, quotes from the board about squad being good enough for promotion, top 10 budget in the league, appointing a young forward thinking head coach…

I know I am hanging on the words/actions of our board but this is what they have set themselves up for. After everything that has happened over the last 4 to 6 months, we are entitled to believe we deserve more than what we are getting.

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

It’s an opinion isn’t it. We all see what is in front of us differently. 

Valid, we will agree on that at least 

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

It’s always stats with you isn’t it! Just watch the game with your eyes 

Oh dear! You say watch the game with your eyes yet can’t see what’s right in front of you.

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

I’m not bothered what the win ratio is as I won’t pour over numbers to form an opinion. I will accept that football is often about small margins. I will accept we have been good and bad under manning with games being decided on individual errors or moments of brilliance. I will recognise what he’s trying to do and give him time before judging him.  **** points per game. **** win ratios. Just chill out, watch the ******* games and give him some time 

Each to their own I guess. Some people want more than mediocre…

Just now, And Its Smith said:

If we’d lost the cup games you’d mention them and include them in any opinion 

Not when talking about points per game!

If you really want to include cup games then what is the win ratio? I can’t be arsed to work that out as to me the cup games are irrelevant!

Was Lee Johnson a good manger cus he beat Man Utd?

7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

The logic is this. Fans form an opinion on a player early and then don’t want to be proved wrong so they give that player a hard time in a desperate bid to be proved correct. 

Fans would love to be proved wrong. If not I would question why you would even call yourself a fan it.

Max has proved no one wrong!

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Nonsense.  Fans give him a tough ride as they can’t bear to be wrong after judging him 3 years ago 

I don’t get this logic… Everyone wants to see the players perform, but especially when they come up through the ranks. Sometimes you have to say they aren’t of the standard needed.

Max is a good league one keeper and a decent back up at championship level. That’s the reality!

Just now, Rob k said:

He’s only just off the back of another clanger at Preston - how many is he allowed?

As many as he wants it would seem!

3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Utter nonsense. All games contribute towards a manager’s reputation and help demonstrate what the team is capable of and how the coach deals with superior opposition. Manning deserves a lot of credit for the West Ham games in particular, not for them to be ignored because of some weird rule you made up that for some reason they don’t count.

And that reputation is currently a couple of decent cup performances vs not having won in the league since 26th December! What’s you point?

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We are judging Manning v Pearson it seems on this thread. Why not take the whole body of work and judge that?

Cup games are one offs, replays aside. You always get the occasional performance and upset. It’s the league form you have to look at for a true reflection.

Couple of decent cup games aside, he has cost us again tonight. Area of improvement needed in the summer if we are to progress over the next couple of seasons.

I know fans give him an easy ride as he came through the youth set up but reality is he isn’t good enough for anyone with promotion ambitions.

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Is there any point in ignoring the cup games when analysing Manning?  Or is it moaners ignore and happy claps include?

Personally I would include every game 

Its points per game… not sure how you want to include points gained by cup results in that??

Slightly related… just reading about the lad who scored for Leeds yesterday had a message for his mum, who had passed away earlier in the week, under his shirt and was booked for showing it when celebrating.

Is there no room for compassion in the game???

30 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

 

That’s literally nothing! You can see the trouble is over the other side of the ground from this. One fan getting a slap or two

Seen a lot of videos on social media but nothing in terms of fans fighting. Mainly scuffles with the police and one bloke having his head smashed open, presumably from the police.

Looks like they are doing alright without him anyway.

I wonder how much arrogance is involved that he will be gutted to see them winning!

Not sure if I missed something in terms of Murphy being injured, but not featured at any level since joining us as far as I am aware.

Not in the U21 squad for today’s game.

If he is injured, do we know how long he is out for? If it’s not injury related, how come he isn’t involved currently?

Of course it’s unprofessional! They pay his wages, how can he refuse to play.

The only Sunderland fans who will agree with him are those who still believe they are a big club and have a right to be in the premier league. They have been petty ever since Beale was appointed. 

Manning had mixed reviews when joining us but Sunderland were embarrassing about Beale.

Given the way the league is looking, strange time to announce it.

Basically, I no longer have Salah from this season on so I want out!

13 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

You absolutely are, I doubt anyone says it's perfect but it's a tactic he's obviously told to use and saying,

Is not in the real world. No one would "Drop it on Pring’s head" every time , OLeary probably hit him 2/3 times and missed a couple. I remember one lead to a break from a flick, but the ones going straight out stand out over those that Pring challenges for because it is frustrating. 
Ederson & Pickford are probably 2 of the best , they each cost £30M+ , not sure you can expect the same from Max.

I would like to think they would be working on it , as much to give him another option so he doesn't have to play that ball as much as actually improving his accuracy .
TBH I was more annoyed/disappointed with the long floated clearances that screamed for a big CG to win. I'd love to see him strike a ball like Ederson, much lower trajectory that give defenders less chance to set, but I don't see that happen regularly any time soon. 

So you think Max is being coached to smash the ball over Pring’s head and raise his hand in apology each time? If he is then whoever is coaching that deserves a pay rise as they have taught Max to be very good at it.

All I am saying is Max’s kicking needs to be drastically improved. If this was then he’d be a much better all round keeper and someone I’d be more than happy with sticking with.

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Show me a keeper who can 100% of the time, hit a player from 50 yards and that's the point. 
He can put it in an area and be 2 feet out and it's over Pring's head. A midfielder puts a through ball 2 feet in front of a chasing forward and the crowd go OOoo unlucky. 

I'd like to know how many headers Pring challenged for against how many of those balls went straight out.

Not 100% of the time, just now and again would be nice.

49 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Especially the "worldie" against West Ham - Was surprised to see that he didn't get  thread of his own - he did mke a few errors that day too  - reticence to come an collect / missing it when he did. 

He has been pretty solid of late - if we can maintain that and improve his kicking I'd be a happy camper....

You’re not allowed to criticise his kicking apparently…

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

That's the alternative, guarantee it's in play but give the CB heading practice or aim for Pring where if it's slightly overhit it goes out. Until (if ever) we have a team totally comfortable getting the ball from Max and playing out successfully , we will have balls played like this.

But playing the ball out the Pring isn’t a bad option. The issue is giving Pring no opportunity to win it. Drop it on Pring’s head to flick it on. Don’t keep kicking it 10 yards over him and giving possession back easily.

Excellent bit of keeping and in general an excellent shot stopper. That has never been in question. Look at West Ham away and home to see that.

But as said many times before, there is more to goalkeeping nowadays. I think yesterday was one of Max’s worse days for kicking. Constantly smashing it out over spring’s head. When he tried to adjust he was booting it straight down the throat of their centre half. Then there was the goal at Preston last week.

He will do until the summer but certainly an area we need improvement in going forward. There is just too much value in a keeper nowadays in more aspects than catching a ball.