Lee Johnson

[Nibor]

A while back (when Noble wasn't in the team) many people demanded we bring him back on the strength of his great performances at the end of last season (playing wide right).

Most people think our problem this season is a chronic lack of width.

The reason Noble is currently playing poorly is bacause he is out of position playing wide right.

Eh ????

Noble is good enough to be in the starting XI. He never gets a spot in the middle of the pitch. I'd rather have him out of position than not in the side because we seem to play better passing football. I'd really like to see him get a run in the centre but GJ seems to think Lee Johnson makes more of a contribution there.

[cheese]

A while back (when Noble wasn't in the team) many people demanded we bring him back on the strength of his great performances at the end of last season (playing wide right).

Most people think our problem this season is a chronic lack of width.

The reason Noble is currently playing poorly is bacause he is out of position playing wide right.

Eh ????

It's ok - logic isn't a strong point for the hysterical mob.

[kingswood red]

No he does'nt.Hes not the best tackler but he still wins a few, every player has there strengths. Elliot cant pass the ball half as well as Johnson but doesnt get slated because of that.

You are referring to a whole season, aren't you?.

Lets face it, tackle and Johnson don't go together in the same sentence. He plays the football equivalent of shadow boxing.

[Nibor]

It's ok - logic isn't a strong point for the hysterical mob.

Logic? OK then.

Lee Johnson. 20 league starts. 1 assist. 1 goal. Takes most corners and free kicks. Offers very little defensively, in that he rarely tracks back even when he's lost the ball and doesn't pick up his opposing central midfielder. Decent passing over long range, occasional lazy pass in his own half puts us in trouble.

David Noble. 5 league starts and 2 cameo sub appearances. Played out of position wide. Doesn't get to take set pieces. Still has the same number of goals and assists. Not the greatest defender either, gets forward more and passes well around the box and retains the ball well under pressure.

Some of that is obviously opinion but the fact that Noble has as many goals and assists in a quarter of the playing time from the wrong position is pretty telling.

[Portland Bill]

You are referring to a whole season, aren't you?.

Lets face it, tackle and Johnson don't go together in the same sentence. He plays the football equivalent of shadow boxing.

No, I'm referring to since hes been here!. We all know hes not the best tackler, and i doubt he thinks he is. But why do we continue to find ways of slagging our players off?.

Why not start threads about all the players and find all there faults ? . I am sure it will be great for the moral of the players .

The forum has now become one of negativity, where theres no praise, just winging and moaning about the same old players.

Our players are not perfect, if they were they wouldnt be playing for us, they would be in the Prem.

[redcityman]

The epitome being the tough-tackling David Noble presumably? There may be sound arguments for replacing Lee with David but defending is not one of them.

I was infact replying to SJC's statement that he felt it was Elliots job to chase 2nd balls, tackle etc, is LJ excused from those parts of the game then, or any player for that matter?

[kingswood red]

No, I'm referring to since hes been here!. We all know hes not the best tackler, and i doubt he thinks he is. But why do we continue to find ways of slagging our players off?.

Why not start threads about all the players and find all there faults ? . I am sure it will be great for the moral of the players .

The forum has now become one of negativity, where theres no praise, just winging and moaning about the same old players.

Our players are not perfect, if they were they wouldnt be playing for us, they would be in the Prem.

So you are saying he's made a few tackles in all the time been here, thats my observation too.

I, for one, can't go on indefinately getting behind a player who has, maybe, one good game in ten but continually gets picked, when there are other players who don't get a chance to show what they can do in their best positions. I am referring to Williams and Noble.

I could have written the script for the preston game after seeing the team and subs. Noble was always going to be subbed. Why was LJ not subbed giving Nobes a chance in central midfield. That must be bad for the 'morale' of the team surely. It's the same old, same old, which is doing more harm to our club than anything else.

GJ moans about the defence, moans about the forwards, but does eff all about the real problem which is and has been all season, the midfield.

[cheese]

Logic? OK then.

Doesn't get to take set pieces.

Yes, not sure why Mcindoe insists on taking them all these days.

[Portland Bill]

So you are saying he's made a few tackles in all the time been here, thats my observation too.

I, for one, can't go on indefinately getting behind a player who has, maybe, one good game in ten but continually gets picked, when there are other players who don't get a chance to show what they can do in their best positions. I am referring to Williams and Noble.

I could have written the script for the preston game after seeing the team and subs. Noble was always going to be subbed. Why was LJ not subbed giving Nobes a chance in central midfield. That must be bad for the 'morale' of the team surely. It's the same old, same old, which is doing more harm to our club than anything else.

GJ moans about the defence, moans about the forwards, but does eff all about the real problem which is and has been all season, the midfield.

Is this the same Noble that didnt work hard enough to get back and stop the cross for Preston's first goal. Take a look at the video.

I rate Noble, but if your going to pick fault with other midfield players then be consistant.

[kingswood red]

Is this the same Noble that didnt work hard enough to get back and stop the cross for Preston's first goal. Take a look at the video.

I rate Noble, but if your going to pick fault with other midfield players then be consistant.

Personally I would have blamed the non-existant full back but, hey, what do I know?

[SJC]

re. Redcityman

Of course Johnson is not excused from such duties. But we don't consistently criticise Elliot for his lack of creativity do we?

[NickJ]

There is a lot of comment about LJ in the pubs and on this forum.

It is reasonable to assume that human nature being what it is, there will be among the players too, especially if you are not playing regularly.

The overwhelming consenus among the fans is that LJ is not worth a regular place at best, or not good enough at all, at worst.

When things are not going so well, if you are the managers son that will inevitably be thrown at you, correct or not.

Is there any reason to think the players don't think the same way also?

LJ did a good job for us in League One, but in my view, as I have said before, it would be best for Bristol City, for GJ's status and standing as our manager, and for LJ's sanity, if he moved on to another club in January, and I for one would wish the guy all the very best, whether he ends up in the Premier League or the Conference.

LJ really is a smashing lad and I hope he goes on to somewhere he is appreciated and not open to the stick he will always get while he is the managers son playing for a team not playing to the expectations of the supporters.

[cheese]

There is a lot of comment about LJ in the pubs and on this forum.

It is reasonable to assume that human nature being what it is, there will be among the players too, especially if you are not playing regularly.

The overwhelming consenus among the fans is that LJ is not worth a regular place at best, or not good enough at all, at worst.

When things are not going so well, if you are the managers son that will inevitably be thrown at you, correct or not.

Is there any reason to think the players don't think the same way also?

LJ did a good job for us in League One, but in my view, as I have said before, it would be best for Bristol City, for GJ's status and standing as our manager, and for LJ's sanity, if he moved on to another club in January, and I for one would wish the guy all the very best, whether he ends up in the Premier League or the Conference.

LJ really is a smashing lad and I hope he goes on to somewhere he is appreciated and not open to the stick he will always get while he is the managers son playing for a team not playing to the expectations of the supporters.

Is there anything to suggest that the players DO think the same way? Given that they are professionals maybe they appreciate the work the LJ does more than us? Or maybe they're just the same as Gallas but keeping their mouths shut! :noexpression: On the other hand - they all seemd pretty pleased when he scored the other week.

[Portland Bill]

Personally I would have blamed the non-existant full back but, hey, what do I know?

Wilson came inside to try and win the ball,all because he was caught with a two on one situation Noble didnt track back to cover Preston's left side. Then when he finally did decide to track back he gave up and allowed the cross to come in, he could and should have made it a lot harder for the Preston player to get that cross in.

[kingswood red]

There is a lot of comment about LJ in the pubs and on this forum.

It is reasonable to assume that human nature being what it is, there will be among the players too, especially if you are not playing regularly.

The overwhelming consenus among the fans is that LJ is not worth a regular place at best, or not good enough at all, at worst.

When things are not going so well, if you are the managers son that will inevitably be thrown at you, correct or not.

Is there any reason to think the players don't think the same way also?

LJ did a good job for us in League One, but in my view, as I have said before, it would be best for Bristol City, for GJ's status and standing as our manager, and for LJ's sanity, if he moved on to another club in January, and I for one would wish the guy all the very best, whether he ends up in the Premier League or the Conference.

LJ really is a smashing lad and I hope he goes on to somewhere he is appreciated and not open to the stick he will always get while he is the managers son playing for a team not playing to the expectations of the supporters.

Why did you feel the need to bring up Nepotism. Nobody on here has mentioned it. I would think that LJ wouldn't thank you for your condescending remarks. My thoughts, about LJ, are purely concerned with what he does on the pitch. I give him the respect of being judged as a Bristo City Player along with all the other players. Where he chooses to have his Sunday lunch is his and his families business.

[kingswood red]

Wilson came inside to try and win the ball,all because he was caught with a two on one situation Noble didnt track back to cover Preston's left side. Then when he finally did decide to track back he gave up and allowed the cross to come in, he could and should have made it a lot harder for the Preston player to get that cross in.

You mean like Fontaine did with Tyson against Forest?

Why don't we rewind to the kick-off and blame it on that.

[NickJ]

Is there anything to suggest that the players DO think the same way?

Footballers are no more and no less knowledgable about football than the rest of us, they just happen to be more gifted at actually playing the game.

So on the basis that they are a representative sample of the population with an opinion on the matter, I would guess that there might be something in it, but you are correct, there is nothing that we are aware of that actually confirms it.

[cheese]

Why don't we rewind to the kick-off and blame it on that.

You have to admit - that's where it all started to go downhill!! :noexpression:

[William Stand]

There is a lot of comment about LJ in the pubs and on this forum.

It is reasonable to assume that human nature being what it is, there will be among the players too, especially if you are not playing regularly.

The overwhelming consenus among the fans is that LJ is not worth a regular place at best, or not good enough at all, at worst.

When things are not going so well, if you are the managers son that will inevitably be thrown at you, correct or not.

Is there any reason to think the players don't think the same way also?

LJ did a good job for us in League One, but in my view, as I have said before, it would be best for Bristol City, for GJ's status and standing as our manager, and for LJ's sanity, if he moved on to another club in January, and I for one would wish the guy all the very best, whether he ends up in the Premier League or the Conference.

LJ really is a smashing lad and I hope he goes on to somewhere he is appreciated and not open to the stick he will always get while he is the managers son playing for a team not playing to the expectations of the supporters.

I can honestly say that is not the case for the people I go to the pub/game with - as often happens 10 people with a shared view on the forum & it becomes an overwhelming concensus!

The slightly odd thing is that quite recently we've had a sustained period when Johnson wasn't in the team..... & by an overwhelming concensus it conincided with our worst run of form last season.

My view on LJ is the same as every other player - I am quite happy for them to be dropped/sold to Rovers etc.. as long as what comes in is better.

[NickJ]

Why did you feel the need to bring up Nepotism.

Well that depends on what you mean.

Are you suggesting that I have said or even inferred that he plays due to nepotism?

Or do you agree that LJ playing has often been explicitly stated by others as being down to nepotism, and I have merely referred to that state of affairs in my post?

Short simple answers will suffice.

[cheese]

Footballers are no more and no less knowledgable about football than the rest of us, they just happen to be more gifted at actually playing the game.

So on the basis that they are a representative sample of the population with an opinion on the matter, I would guess that there might be something in it, but you are correct, there is nothing that we are aware of that actually confirms it.

Wasn't being a pedant - honest!! I just wondered whether there was anything out there - I've seen the rumours about coach fights and stuff. I used to be quite involved with Swindon Town and my experience of professional footballers is that they don't seem to think quite the same as the rest of us!! Some of them think they're quite good!!

[redcityman]

re. Redcityman

Of course Johnson is not excused from such duties. But we don't consistently criticise Elliot for his lack of creativity do we?

"We fail to win ANY 2nd ball and attacks are rarely broken down in midfield, both of which are, in essence, Elliots job."

But you stated the above, which to me, led me to believe that you're saying all attacks and lost 2nd balls are down to Elliot, when its everyones job to chip in surely.

I'm sure elliot would be critcised if his present form continues, but then again he'll probably be dropped now and again, as all players should be when not contributing enough to the team.

[Riaz]

Wow! If you'd of posted this a few months ago there would of been many lining up to defend the guy, interesting to see that many are now coming around to the reality that Lee really is way out of his depth.

Of course Lee's not responsible for all of the current problems but he's certainly one of them.

Way out of his depth is bollox tbh - we were top after something like 38 games last season and he played every game (bar 1 maybe??)

There is no way in the world we would have been top of the league with a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER who wasnt good enough - theres no where to hide when you play centre mid. Full back maybe but not a central midfielder.

However, I would like to see another player given a go in his position, namely Noble. I think its time for a change - even if its temporary. Someone else deserves a chance.

[kingswood red]

Well that depends on what you mean.

Are you suggesting that I have said or even inferred that he plays due to nepotism?

Or do you agree that LJ playing has often been explicitly stated by others as being down to nepotism, and I have merely referred to that state of affairs in my post?

Short simple answers will suffice.

What I mean is, ' Why did you feel the need to bring up nepotism?' It's a straight forward enough question.

A short simple answer should suffice.

[westy]

The whole Lee Johnson thing has gone on long enough - Regardless of whether he is good, bad, excellent or rubbish it is just an unnecessary position to be in. It's clearly not good for him, GJ, the team or the fans so the sooner he moves on the better IMO.

[NickJ]

I can honestly say that is not the case for the people I go to the pub/game with - as often happens 10 people with a shared view on the forum & it becomes an overwhelming concensus!

The slightly odd thing is that quite recently we've had a sustained period when Johnson wasn't in the team..... & by an overwhelming concensus it conincided with our worst run of form last season.

My view on LJ is the same as every other player - I am quite happy for them to be dropped/sold to Rovers etc.. as long as what comes in is better.

First comment - of the replies on this thread, 14 people don't think Lee is good enough, 7 more or less say the entire midfield is pants without overtly supporting Lee. This thread is fairly typical of others, IMO, and is fairly typical of most people I talk to. Perhaps all your mates are his cousins? (joke).

Second comment - people very often say that, but ignore the fantastic 5 games before the play-off final when LJ wasnt in the side. So arguments on both sides.

Third comment - agreed.

[cheese]

Way out of his depth is bollox tbh - we were top after something like 38 games last season and he played every game (bar 1 maybe??)

There is no way in the world we would have been top of the league with a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER who wasnt good enough - theres no where to hide when you play centre mid. Full back maybe but not a central midfielder.

But did you not know that Elliot was superhuman last season and did the job of two players? So, that was quite an achievement really - to be top after 38 games having played the majority of games with only 10 men.

[NickJ]

What I mean is, ' Why did you feel the need to bring up nepotism?' It's a straight forward enough question.

A short simple answer should suffice.

I didnt mention the word nepotism, or even infer that in my opinion he plays due to nepotism.

So I am quite happy to answer your question, when I understand what the **** you mean by it.

[NickJ]

Wasn't being a pedant - honest!! I just wondered whether there was anything out there - I've seen the rumours about coach fights and stuff. I used to be quite involved with Swindon Town and my experience of professional footballers is that they don't seem to think quite the same as the rest of us!! Some of them think they're quite good!!

I don't know anything about coach fights or anything else for that matter, just putting 2 and 2 together.

I may be coming up with 5, or maybe I'm about to crack Einstein's theory of relativity, I don't know.

I used to think I was good at football. Not many people agreed.

[Nibor]

Yes, not sure why Mcindoe insists on taking them all these days.

Great reply, I like the way you've focussed on the key argument there.

For the record, McIndoe takes some of the right sided corners and the odd direct free kick. LJ still takes every left sided corner and every free kick that isn't at the 20-25 yard range and set up for a left footer.