Lee Johnson

[cheese]

Great reply,

I thank you.

[William Stand]

First comment - of the replies on this thread, 14 people don't think Lee is good enough, 7 more or less say the entire midfield is pants without overtly supporting Lee. This thread is fairly typical of others, IMO, and is fairly typical of most people I talk to. Perhaps all your mates are his cousins? (joke).

Second comment - people very often say that, but ignore the fantastic 5 games before the play-off final when LJ wasnt in the side. So arguments on both sides.

Third comment - agreed.

1st Comment - dissenters always make more noise - 2 weeks ago a No of people were calling for Orr to be replaced by Wilson... now its the opposite.

2nd comment - not sure about the 5 games ?? Sheff Utd away we played great (but it was a unique match as a point meant absolutely nothing to either side). PNE we played well, shame PNE were already on the beach. Palace away - agreed, no holds barred great performance. Palace home, great for the 1st 20. Once they scored we were rubbish till Extra time. Had Watson scored this forum would've been in melt down re our collapse after such a good start.

Regardless of your opinion of LJ, he isn't much better/worse this season to last - the biggest changes seem to be we're giving away cheap goals, Marv looks half fit & we seem to have lost our potency from set plays (& to be honest I have no idea if thats cos LJ is taking them poorly or we're not attacking them).

You can't blame everything on luck, but it does seems that this season is payback for a lot of good fortune we had last. IN our last 2 games we've started well - an early goal would change everything. But typical of a team short on confidence we don't take our chances & the opposition do. We were clearly the better team on Sat in the 1st half, but it is worrying that very rarely this season have we "played" for 90 mins.

[Lordofthebling]

The whole midfield needs looking at urgently.

- We have needed a right winger all of last season and this.

- No competition for Mcindoe and he drops infield too often.

- Elliott has not been the same and again, I feel he needs competition.

- LJ, plays too deep and can only pass backwards and sideways.

- Noble, just not fit enough to beat a man and kick on...

I look at players like Britton at Swansea and think "oh how we crave a bit of magic in our midfield." Someone to beat a few players...

I mean seriously - I am struggling to think of one player in our first choice midfield who can beat a man. Further than that, in our whole squad, I think Trunds may be the only one who can beat a man and loves running at defenders.

Our midfield is sideways, sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards to McCombe - big kick up to Dele. Its too lightweight, a pushover and predictable.

Rant over.

[sodburyred]

Wilson came inside to try and win the ball,all because he was caught with a two on one situation Noble didnt track back to cover Preston's left side. Then when he finally did decide to track back he gave up and allowed the cross to come in, he could and should have made it a lot harder for the Preston player to get that cross in.

Wilson was closing down a player in the centre who was left alone! Why was there a preston midfielder 30 yards from goal all alone? Lack of a centre midfielder on our part i think!

[kingswood red]

I didnt mention the word nepotism, or even infer that in my opinion he plays due to nepotism.

So I am quite happy to answer your question, when I understand what the **** you mean by it.

Sir, I agree you didn't use the word nepotism but, in a thread that was purely debating the merits, or not, of LJ being in the team you chose in post 42 to bring up his relationship with the manager on two occasions. Saying it would be best for him to leave because of it. I think you implied nepotism, but if you say you didn't, then I humbly apologise. I would like all players to be judged by how the perform on the pitch, and incidentally off it, not by any family connection, that was why I replied to post 42, in which you ended it by saying

LJ really is a smashing lad and I hope he goes on to somewhere he is appreciated and not open to the stick he will always get while he is the managers son playing for a team not playing to the expectations of the supporters.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

[redrebel]

He is not crap. He just does not have the natural physical attributes to compete successfully in the CCC.

He does not really bottle tackles, he just is not strong enough to win them.

He cant compete in the air obviously.

He plays so deep attempting to find space away from the quicker stronger opposition midfielders any creativity he possibly has is now needed to launch balls forward bypassing a midfield we are usually outnumbered in as he is missing, resulting in an attempted flick on from Adebola. The only other option he has is to play square balls to fullbacks who have the same problems as him and results in another long ball to Dele. Because as stated the midfield is outnumbered and the wingers are forced to tuck in to make a 3. Resulting in no wide out ball.

LJ can play in a 5 man midfield because the extra man in there reverses the negative effects of him dropping deep. But creates a whole new problem of isolating a lone striker so the ball tends to come back at the back 4 as quick as we send it forward.

In short his 'quick footballing brain' which served him well in League 1 is not enough in the CCC where the big strong atheletic players are just that bit better technically therefore negating his previous advantage. The same reason he could not play with any great success in Scotland - physically he cant cut it.

To some extent you are right he doesn't bottle a lot of tackles because he makes sure he is never around to make any.This great skill was also perfected by Matt Hewlett.I wondered the other day why Johnson never gets injured , a stupid thought really.If you never get stuck in you will never be injured.I would bet my house that he is the most injury free player at the club.He has go to be dropped for GJ to maintain any of his shrinking credibilty.

[NickJ]

Sir, I agree you didn't use the word nepotism but, in a thread that was purely debating the merits, or not, of LJ being in the team you chose in post 42 to bring up his relationship with the manager on two occasions. Saying it would be best for him to leave because of it. I think you implied nepotism, but if you say you didn't, then I humbly apologise. I would like all players to be judged by how the perform on the pitch, and incidentally off it, not by any family connection, that was why I replied to post 42, in which you ended it by saying

LJ really is a smashing lad and I hope he goes on to somewhere he is appreciated and not open to the stick he will always get while he is the managers son playing for a team not playing to the expectations of the supporters.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

OK, thankyou.

I made those comments because lets face it, it is relevant because those accusations have been made. You cant debate a point while simultaneously ignoring what is part of the issue, so if it was post 40 before it was mentioned, by me, well what can I say.

In my view LJ did a great job for us in his first season, an ok one last season, has become more and more exposed this, and, even if he improves, if the team continues to struggle, he's on a hiding to nothing, because he is the managers son.

[William Stand]

To some extent you are right he doesn't bottle a lot of tackles because he makes sure he is never around to make any.This great skill was also perfected by Matt Hewlett.I wondered the other day why Johnson never gets injured , a stupid thought really.If you never get stuck in you will never be injured.I would bet my house that he is the most injury free player at the club.He has go to be dropped for GJ to maintain any of his shrinking credibilty.

Umm... Watford game, home last season.... didn't he get crocked in a challenge with Henderson ??

No tackling isn't his strong point, same as passing isn't Elliotts strength.

[kingswood red]

OK, thankyou.

I made those comments because lets face it, it is relevant because those accusations have been made. You cant debate a point while simultaneously ignoring what is part of the issue, so if it was post 40 before it was mentioned, by me, well what can I say.

In my view LJ did a great job for us in his first season, an ok one last season, has become more and more exposed this, and, even if he improves, if the team continues to struggle, he's on a hiding to nothing, because he is the managers son.

I agree entirely with you as regards LJ, but I do think it devalues the debate against LJ as a footballer, first and foremost, if references are made about his family connections. Personally I don't think he, as a footballer, is good enough to take us forward. Along with a few others it has to be said.

By continually picking LJ and not trying out other formations GJ is leaving himself and LJ open to all sorts of, unfounded, accusations which do the supporters no credit. I myself have previously made them, more in frustration than anything else.

Every supporter is united in one thing, we all want City to do well.

[wookey]

The nightmare scenario for Gary is that he drops/rests/gives a break too Lee J and the team clicks and there is no immediate way for Lee J to come back in.

This happened last year, when Lee J was injured. Carle took his chance and kept him out of the team on merit and there was nothing Gary could fairly do. However with Orr injured injured in the play offs he was able to bring Lee on to the pitch, albeit the wrong substitution, and any chance we had was gone. Carle was then transferred to avoid Lee J further embarassement.

So unless Steve Lansdown has a word we are not in the market for a creative mid-fielder.

[cheese]

The nightmare scenario for Gary is that he drops/rests/gives a break too Lee J and the team clicks and there is no immediate way for Lee J to come back in.

This happened last year, when Lee J was injured. Carle took his chance and kept him out of the team on merit and there was nothing Gary could fairly do. However with Orr injured injured in the play offs he was able to bring Lee on to the pitch, albeit the wrong substitution, and any chance we had was gone. Carle was then transferred to avoid Lee J further embarassement.

So unless Steve Lansdown has a word we are not in the market for a creative mid-fielder.

Everybody was getting along so well debating the issues and then you come along with the same old mantra and rubbish.

[Portland Bill]

You mean like Fontaine did with Tyson against Forest?

Why don't we rewind to the kick-off and blame it on that.

But we werent talking about Fontaine and Forest.He got beaten by a player who outpaced him etc. Noble just wasnt doing his job!

[Riaz]

The nightmare scenario for Gary is that he drops/rests/gives a break too Lee J and the team clicks and there is no immediate way for Lee J to come back in.

This happened last year, when Lee J was injured. Carle took his chance and kept him out of the team on merit and there was nothing Gary could fairly do. However with Orr injured injured in the play offs he was able to bring Lee on to the pitch, albeit the wrong substitution, and any chance we had was gone. Carle was then transferred to avoid Lee J further embarassement.

So unless Steve Lansdown has a word we are not in the market for a creative mid-fielder.

We were top after 38 games which LJ played in all.

He then got injured and played in one more game, but in the remaining 8 games we dropped to 4th.I'm using FACTS to demonstrate the bollox your coming out with

The game where you say we 'clicked' was in a 2-1 DEFEAT at Sheff Utd and we were very good - we then beat Preston in a nothing game.

We CLEARLY missed LJ in the remaining 8 games. And the reason we picked up when Carle returned was because for the first time since LJ was injured we had replaced him with a 'passer' type midfielder - and had a balanced midfield again.

[NickJ]

We were top after 38 games which LJ played in all.

He then got injured and played in one more game, but in the remaining 8 games we dropped to 4th.I'm using FACTS to demonstrate the bollox your coming out with

The game where you say we 'clicked' was in a 2-1 DEFEAT at Sheff Utd and we were very good - we then beat Preston in a nothing game.

We CLEARLY missed LJ in the remaining 8 games. And the reason we picked up when Carle returned was because for the first time since LJ was injured we had replaced him with a 'passer' type midfielder - and had a balanced midfield again.

A bit selective with your facts there Riaz.

LJ's last game was the forgettable 2-0 defeat at Southampton.

We were top, but the other teams that overtook us (at that time 5/6 teams within 2/3 points) all did so by virtue of picking up points in their games in hand.

Anyway, I would say LJ made a contribution to the season, no more no less.

In my view, Carle had LJ's qualities and other ones that LJ didnt, but thats just a personal view.

[Riaz]

A bit selective with your facts there Riaz.

LJ's last game was the forgettable 2-0 defeat at Southampton.

We were top, but the other teams that overtook us (at that time 5/6 teams within 2/3 points) all did so by virtue of picking up points in their games in hand.

Anyway, I would say LJ made a contribution to the season, no more no less.

In my view, Carle had LJ's qualities and other ones that LJ didnt, but thats just a personal view.

I did say he played one more game. And I'm saying that NC is not better than LJ - he probabaly is. But the post I was replying too, gave the impression that as soon as LJ got injured things got better - which is false - the opposite is true.

I like to Judge Lee Johnson on his ability, how the team plays and chose to ignore who his dad is - to be fair.

With regard to the critizism that LJ receives - there are a lot of fair points - but they get clouded by the bollox that gets written and wookeys post is a prime example.

for the record, I think its time for someone else to be given a chance in his position

[weymouth red]

simple if we want to progress then LJ is not what we want in the team.

[kah2008]

Everyone picks on Johnson but i think we have to look at the bigger picture and relise that it isn't just Johnson. Elliot is has been awful this season and i even had someone sat behind me the other day saying the reason Elliot is playing badly is because he is playing along side Johnson which personally i think is aload of bull.

Johnson may not be the best player and i along with most of BCFC fans would like to see Noble or Williams playing in the position but i think we just have to live with the fact the Johnson is staying in the squad.

[Seend Red]

Everyone picks on Johnson but i think we have to look at the bigger picture and relise that it isn't just Johnson. Elliot is has been awful this season and i even had someone sat behind me the other day saying the reason Elliot is playing badly is because he is playing along side Johnson which personally i think is aload of bull.

Johnson may not be the best player and i along with most of BCFC fans would like to see Noble or Williams playing in the position but i think we just have to live with the fact the Johnson is staying in the squad.

You're contradicting yourself!

You say he's being picked on then go on to say you agree that he shouldn't play and Williams and Noble would be a better option

I think the problem is Gary wants to be successful and wants to take Lee along for the ride and to share in that success but he has to realize for the sake of the club and his career that Lee isn't good enough at Championship level.

Time to cut the apron strings Lee .

[kah2008]

You're contradicting yourself!

You say he's being picked on then go on to say you agree that he shouldn't play and Williams and Noble would be a better option

I do agree that Noble/Williams should play in his position but i just don't think that all blame should be aimed at LJ when maybe we should drop LJ and ME and put GW and DN in.

[Riaz]

You're contradicting yourself!

You say he's being picked on then go on to say you agree that he shouldn't play and Williams and Noble would be a better option

I think the problem is Gary wants to be successful and wants to take Lee along for the ride and to share in that success but he has to realize for the sake of the club and his career that Lee isn't good enough at Championship level.

Time to cut the apron strings Lee .

Why do you make these statements and ignore where I have made a point which suggests that your talking out your arse??

He is good enough for this level, as he more than proved it last season.

Wow! If you'd of posted this a few months ago there would of been many lining up to defend the guy, interesting to see that many are now coming around to the reality that Lee really is way out of his depth.

Of course Lee's not responsible for all of the current problems but he's certainly one of them.

Way out of his depth is bollox tbh - we were top after something like 38 games last season and he played every game (bar 1 maybe??)

There is no way in the world we would have been top of the league with a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER who wasnt good enough - theres no where to hide when you play centre mid. Full back maybe but not a central midfielder.

However, I would like to see another player given a go in his position, namely Noble. I think its time for a change - even if its temporary. Someone else deserves a chance.

[Redhyde]

None of our midfielders have performed this year. I believe it's the system. The individual's aren't top quality and one on one they're exposed. we achieved our success based on teamwork and this year we've gotten away from that as mistakenly IMO GJ thinks our players are/were better than they are after last seasons efforts.

So we either revert back to what made us successful and drop our record signing as he's a passenger we can't afford or we throw more money at it in January and buy quality players.

None of our midfielders are good enough at this level to cope in a 4 man midfield containing any combination of players we have at the club.

The seemingly popular midfield of McIndoe, Noble, Elliott, Williams still IMO looks weak.

LJ needs to be used where he can be effective, or not at all. But that applies to all of the midfielders with the pehaps exception of a Elliott or McIndoe when they're on form. Which they're not.

[Seend Red]

Why do you make these statements and ignore where I have made a point which suggests that your talking out your arse??

He is good enough for this level, as he more than proved it last season.

Well done Sherlock, you put 2+2 together and get 5! You really showed me :noexpression:

You only have to watch to see LJ struggles at this level.

[Riaz]

Well done Sherlock, you put 2+2 together and get 5! You really showed me :noexpression:

You only have to watch to see LJ struggles at this level.

He may have struggled this season, but are you saying that he wasnt good enough last season, and if so how do you come to that conclusion?

[cheese]

He may have struggled this season, but are you saying that he wasnt good enough last season, and if so how do you come to that conclusion?

Seend_Red comes to his conclusions and then looks for evidence to support it. A bit like the West Mids Police - allegedly!

[Riaz]

Seend_Red comes to his conclusions and then looks for evidence to support it. A bit like the West Mids Police - allegedly!

and conveniently over looks evidence that goes against it

[cheese]

and conveniently over looks evidence that goes against it

Mond you, have you been to Seend?

[dezgimed]

Mond you, have you been to Seend?

Have you?

[kingswood red]

Mond you, have you been to Seend?

I know it's Christmas but it's a bit early for the sherry.

[Seend Red]

Mond you, have you been to Seend?

I have!

Lovely village surrounded by 4 country pubs over looking the Avon & Kennet canal!

Not sure what it has to do with the topic under discussion but then that sums up your input on this forum.

[CalgaryRed]

Living in Canada so don't get to see the lads play much except occasionally on Setanta. But I was at the Sheffield Utd game at the end of last season (the weekend after we blew automatic promotion with a shocking Route 1 first half against Stoke). I have to say that one of the best two players on the pitch that day was Gary Speed. Over 6 feet, big and strong, dominated the park, great target for setpieces and dangerous with his head and feet. At 39 would eat Lee Johnson for breakfast. Why couldn't we get someone like that who would be a great dressing room asset at the moment ? (For the answer read on)

The other - I'm sorry to say - was Nick Carle. His crime was that - besides body strength - he had flair and upset GJ's cosy dressing room. He's also scored more goals for Palace this season than LJ and they are higher than us in the league.

Sorry to say this but Steve L made a big mistake giving GJ a 5 year deal. It's made him untouchable and complacent and lost Steve L all leverage. How - for example - can he quietly tell GJ the necessary message - that LJ has to go...?

Gary is in danger of coming across as a bit of a bully. The sort of manager who does very well at motivating and building a team out of the young, the impressionable and the easily dominated. It's OK as long as he's in charge of and surrounded by weaker personalities like Maynard or his son. But - unlike say..Colin - he can't cope with and will always shy away from handling the bigger stars like a Speed ..or a Carle..or even a Trundle. I wasn't a big Marcus Stewart fan but he was actually a great example of GJ's managerial limitations. The Meteb and Mifsud episodes should have rung the warning bells for Steve L again. The man can't cope with and isn't respected by the kind of players we need. Unless he can change - doubtful - he's already reached the end of his limitations.

You will only prosper in the Championship - let alone the Premier - with quality players. Quality players sadly do have egos and will be paid more than the manager. The manager has to be able to cope with that - and MANAGE them ! Without those stars we are and will remain a team of colourless journeymen resorting to Route 1. Last year's play-offs were the high-water mark. We may eke out a couple of seasons in the Championship then we will be back to the familiar surroundings of League 1. Enjoy. Hope the new stadium gets started before that happens cos it never will be otherwise...