kingswood red Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Your feeling is that he's a league two standard player who is somehow holding down a place in one of the most crucial areas of a team that reached the Championship playoff final last season and is looking a decent bet to make the playoffs again. We're simply asking you to explain how the team can possibly be doing so well if what you say is true. In the role that GJ requires LJ to play, he is definately the best all round player to fit that role. Actually, he is the only player in the club that fits that role. Is he the best in the division? no, not by a long way. Is he the worst? probably not, but does he get special treatment? yes, nobody can deny that , because he has, in GJ's eyes, no competition, why is that, Coincidence? maybe. No team is perfect, but some teams are better than the sum of it's parts as BB used to say. ie sometimes a lesser player can play in a team without affecting the performce. Don't forget we actually made the playoffs without LJ. DN LTand good old NC performed very well at the tail end of the season. I'll support LJ while he is in the team but, I for one, will be glad when we get better players in and he moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 'We made the play-offs without LJ' Considering we were poised for automatic promotion before he was injured surely this is a bad thing! Johnson does a fantastic job on the whole for the team. He does lack physical presence but, overall, he performs the role he is required to admirably. Of course there are better central midfielders out there, however the manner in which {Gary} Johnson has his team play means a ball retainer such as Lee is pivotal. I agree there are better central midfielders but how anyone can condemn Lee Johnson as a 'League 2' player, given that he has been virtually ever present during our recent years of resurgence, is quite frankly mystifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Don't forget we actually made the playoffs without LJ. . Are you really that stupid to think that??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Don't forget we actually made the playoffs without LJ. We staggered across the line having been in the automatic promotion places prior to Johnson's injury. I'll support LJ while he is in the team but, I for one, will be glad when we get better players in and he moves on. I will be very happy indeed when we sign a better player than Lee Johnson to play in central midfield. Michael Carrick would be nice. I'll also be happy when any of our other players are replaced by better ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Seend you have certainly made your views clear - but they are patently ridiculous. hence why a number of us are prepared to point that out. A couple of hundred on an internet board from a matchday population of 16,000 isnt alot. Plenty of people down AG will concur with SR, game of opinions isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 A couple of hundred on an internet board from a matchday population of 16,000 isnt alot. Plenty of people down AG will concur with SR, game of opinions isnt it? Not sure what you mean by 'plenty'. But yes, I'm sure he's not alone in his view. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 A couple of hundred on an internet board from a matchday population of 16,000 isnt alot. Plenty of people down AG will concur with SR, game of opinions isnt it? If you for any reason need to have a father-son realtion at any club it has to be unquestionable that he is there for the right reason being so much better than the rest. Being average at the best is simply not good enough which the current debate is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 If you for any reason need to have a father-son realtion at any club it has to be unquestionable that he is there for the right reason being so much better than the rest. Being average at the best is simply not good enough which the current debate is all about. Its not at all. The allegation is that he is nowhere good enough. Anyone who says he is average, has a fair opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Its not at all. The allegation is that he is nowhere good enough. Anyone who says he is average, has a fair opinion. Average is not good enough for a playmaker. Especially not if he is the managers son. The European Commisssion would love this debate and so would Aristofanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Average is not good enough for a playmaker. Especially not if he is the managers son. The European Commisssion would love this debate and so would Aristofanes. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 ; ) Maybe we shall close this Forum down? During the season we shall support the club whatever they come up with and off season people are sick to death about rediculous transfer rumours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE23Red Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 A couple of hundred on an internet board from a matchday population of 16,000 isnt alot. Plenty of people down AG will concur with SR, game of opinions isnt it? As is life...and people believe all kind of crazy conspiracy theories. And like all good conspiracy theorists those who claim it to be true struggle to back up their 'opinion' with fact. In this case one of two facts would do it: (1) The team's results are poor due to the way a key midfield slot is given to the manager's son. (2) The team shows a marked improvement in results when the manager's son is out of the team. Which of these do you think is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Oh, and Lee scored a goal after the time you'd have subbed him on Tuesday. Perhaps that why he's left on, because he can continue to affect a game for 90 minutes through his determination and fitness, regardless of a dip in form. it's not a dip, the lads lost in a valley of low form at the moment, he's had a dreadful season todate, on a serious note......can anyone recall the last time they felt Lee had an excellent game? or was even a man of the match contender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 We staggered across the line having been in the automatic promotion places prior to Johnson's injury. the last game Johnson started was the defeat at Southamton after that we were still top, but everyone else had games in hand, by the time we actually started the next game, we were out of the auto promotion places. so to me, he got us a play-off place and all this talk of "we were automatically going up till he got injured lack" is totally untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 it's not a dip, the lads lost in a valley of low form at the moment, he's had a dreadful season todate, on a serious note......can anyone recall the last time they felt Lee had an excellent game? or was even a man of the match contender? He's had a dreadul season and we're 8th? So, presumably you're another one who thinks 10 Premier League players are carrying Gary's son to another stab at promotion? When was the last time Orr was? Or McAllister? Or McIndoe? Or Sproule? Or Maynard? That's not a serious note. It's another attempt to make him sound crap, when he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE23Red Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 the last game Johnson started was the defeat at Southamton after that we were still top, but everyone else had games in hand, by the time we actually started the next game, we were out of the auto promotion places. so to me, he got us a play-off place and all this talk of "we were automatically going up till he got injured lack" is totally untrue. Games without LJ in the last 2 seasons... 07/08: Blackpool A 1-1 Plymouth H 1-2 Cardiff A 1-2 Wolves H 0-0 Stoke A 1-2 Sheff Utd A 1-2 08/09: Swansea H 0-0 Ipswich A 1-3 Isn't it a little odd that we show relegation form when a player not fit for this level and only picked due to who his father is is absent. I thought we'd be much better without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 the last game Johnson started was the defeat at Southamton after that we were still top, but everyone else had games in hand, by the time we actually started the next game, we were out of the auto promotion places. so to me, he got us a play-off place and all this talk of "we were automatically going up till he got injured lack" is totally untrue. You're overlooking the two games against Plymouth and Cardiff in between Watford and Southampton, that he missed due to injury, then? Presumably because we lost them both and they don't fit in with your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 it's not a dip, the lads lost in a valley of low form at the moment, he's had a dreadful season todate, on a serious note......can anyone recall the last time they felt Lee had an excellent game? or was even a man of the match contender? Well the Mirror gave him MOM the other week and I think he was MOM in the Evening Post, according to a City fan, within the last couple of games. But hey those opinions don't concur with yours so they must be wrong. Mustn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 As is life...and people believe all kind of crazy conspiracy theories. And like all good conspiracy theorists those who claim it to be true struggle to back up their 'opinion' with fact. In this case one of two facts would do it: (1) The team's results are poor due to the way a key midfield slot is given to the manager's son. (2) The team shows a marked improvement in results when the manager's son is out of the team. Which of these do you think is true? Lets look at the results with and without LJ in the side..... In the Championship our record is LJ Starts P 76 W 36 D 21 L 17 Points Avr 1.74 Without LJ P 13 W 3 D 4 L 6 Points Avr 1.00 Breaking that down Last seasons point avr WITH 1.74 WITHOUT 1.11 This seasons point avr WITH 1.67 WITHOUT 0.66 So the Results without LJ suffer. And Gary Johnson's view that LJ is a KEY player for us seems to be correct Even I did'nt think he was a key player, but he is. Of course, Seend and co will probabaly convieniently ignore the facts/results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm not his biggest fan, but I feel he's been good recently, and a few games ago was class, I even bloody mentioned it on here. That says enough to me. Perform well and I'm happy. I don't know whether that is the cause or a result of the upturn in form, but Ive been impressed with him in the 3 man midfield, as it plays to his strengths. In a 2 man central midfield, not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm not his biggest fan, but I feel he's been good recently, and a few games ago was class, I even bloody mentioned it on here. That says enough to me. Perform well and I'm happy. I don't know whether that is the cause or a result of the upturn in form, but Ive been impressed with him in the 3 man midfield, as it plays to his strengths. In a 2 man central midfield, not sure. Fair play dez. Fair comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Seend Red, You may well be the funniest human ever! That is all, RMD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm asking you to explain how it's possible to carry a League Two player in a key midfield position in the Championship and be in the position we are in now and in the position we finished in last season. The answer could be that Sir Gary is an exceptionally gifted manager who has assembled an exceptionally gifted squad of players, and that with the weak link of centre midfield creative player capable of being strengthened, but not, we could have done even better. I'm not saying that is the case, but it is a possibility, isnt it, and frankly that opinion is completely subjective and therefore incapable of resolution no matter how many different ways SR attempts to justify it and no matter how many times the LJDF attempt to refute it. Censored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted March 13, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 The answer could be that Sir Gary is an exceptionally gifted manager who has assembled an exceptionally gifted squad of players, and that with the weak link of centre midfield creative player capable of being strengthened, but not, we could have done even better. I'm not saying that is the case, but it is a possibility, isnt it, and frankly that opinion is completely subjective and therefore incapable of resolution no matter how many different ways SR attempts to justify it and no matter how many times the LJDF attempt to refute it. Censored? That's an acceptable viewpoint but it's not like we've been lurking in the shadows for the last few years. We've all seen the Premier League scouts at our games yet there has been a serious lack of bids from these clubs for our players. You would think that if the remaining players are so good as to carry a League 2 standard central midfielder that the mediocre Premier league clubs would be falling over themselves to hand us their ill-gotten millions in an attempt to persuade us to part with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 That's an acceptable viewpoint but it's not like we've been lurking in the shadows for the last few years. We've all seen the Premier League scouts at our games yet there has been a serious lack of bids from these clubs for our players. You would think that if the remaining players are so good as to carry a League 2 standard central midfielder that the mediocre Premier league clubs would be falling over themselves to hand us their ill-gotten millions in an attempt to persuade us to part with them. An equally valid viewpoint except that I don't know about you but the only Premier League scout Ive ever spoken to at Ashton Gate was the one from Tottenham a couple of years ago, who told me (a) he would be telling Spurs to buy the Cardiff lad whose name escapes me and (b) no Premier League club other than under exceptional circumstances would even contemplate buying a lower league player, no matter how good, under the age of 20 years old. (a) Tottenham paid megabucks for the Cardiff teenager the following Monday (b) seems to be pretty much supported by the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 The answer could be that Sir Gary is an exceptionally gifted manager who has assembled an exceptionally gifted squad of players, and that with the weak link of centre midfield creative player capable of being strengthened, but not, we could have done even better. I'm not saying that is the case, but it is a possibility, isnt it, and frankly that opinion is completely subjective and therefore incapable of resolution no matter how many different ways SR attempts to justify it and no matter how many times the LJDF attempt to refute it. Censored? In my opinion, it isn't a possibility, no. The implication of calling Lee a League Two player is, that we could take any player from the two divisions below ours and we would be a stronger team at best and no weaker at worst, as far as I can see. I think that is wrong and irrational. You're right that it's probably not resolvable as it's unproveable. Just as I could say England would have won the World Cup if Lee Johnson had played every game for them. It's wrong, but has to be accepted as a possibility, for the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 The answer could be that Sir Gary is an exceptionally gifted manager who has assembled an exceptionally gifted squad of players, and that with the weak link of centre midfield creative player capable of being strengthened, but not, we could have done even better. I'm not saying that is the case, but it is a possibility, isnt it, and frankly that opinion is completely subjective and therefore incapable of resolution no matter how many different ways SR attempts to justify it and no matter how many times the LJDF attempt to refute it. Censored? The stats prove the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 The stats prove the opposite. Oh no they don't! (Pantomine) They cant Riaz, one way or other. Not in terms of my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Oh no they don't! (Pantomine) They cant Riaz, one way or other. Not in terms of my point. Okay they suggest the opposite is true. and the great gary johnson thinks so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 He's had a dreadul season and we're 8th? So, presumably you're another one who thinks 10 Premier League players are carrying Gary's son to another stab at promotion? When was the last time Orr was? Or McAllister? Or McIndoe? Or Sproule? Or Maynard? That's not a serious note. It's another attempt to make him sound crap, when he isn't. typical response over-react response from another johnson yesman who doesn't actually answer the question, the difference is the players you have mentioned have all had games recently where they have taken the headlines for decent performances, Orr was fantastic at Brum, Jamie Mac excellent against in midweek, McIndoe has been constantly one of our best players since we joined the championship, Sproule has been mixed but scored a blinder against southampton and Maynard is our joint top scorer. what highlights from Lee this season??? when has he played a blinder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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