Gj /lj ... This Father / Son Thing

[red man dan]

Are we STILL doing this? Sometimes i wonder why GJ bothers with this club, at all. Thankfully, and i 'hope' i am right on this, thankfully i don't think the general view is that LJ plays for any other reason other than ability/best choice and the nepotism suggestions are the minority. I just pray and hope that the future doesnt hold true on the following 'its always the minority who ruin it for the rest of us'...because if this bubbles for too long, it will eventually boil over.

If the heated debate the other day was about his son, i sure as hell hope he told the incredulous individual to '**** off and come back when you know something, anything, about football', and GJ if your reading this, please be safe in the knowledge that you would be talking on behalf of all those who either a) understand football and/or b) have the courtesy not to do you the injustice of accusing you of nepatism, which the majority of us (LJ fans or not) all know is complete and utter tripe.

[Economou]

personally I coldn't give a hoot about the father/son business, (christ there was always talk of "he's only playing because of his dad", when Andrew Jordan and Liam Rosenior first played for City and their fathers weren't even employed by the club at the time so it was always going to happen with Lee)

but when the same player is having constantly poor performances like Johnson's in the last few weeks (and for most the season), it's always going to be an issue for any player who's not dropped, many players this season have been slated for playing badly McAllister very recently, but then he pulls out a very good performance like last night and people will lay off him, unfortunately.....I can't remember the last time Johnson had a blinder of a performance? anyone else? geninue question?

Is it any wonder players get paranoid when reading some of the garbage that is spouted on these forums ?

You've slated Gary Mac lately, why FFS ? He hasn't been playing badly, name the last time his winger got round him ? Last time he made a bad mistake defensively. He does his job, yesterday his job was getting forward & he did it superbly.

Same with Lee Johnson ad nauseum. Why should he be dropped, he does his job to the betterment (if that's a word) of the team, and that team is 8th with every chance of making the playoffs again this season.

[garlicbread]

Fair enough.

I take your points on board.

This is missng the point....it isnt libelous to suggest that Johnson picks his son because of nepotism

[garlicbread]

Are we STILL doing this? Sometimes i wonder why GJ bothers with this club, at all. Thankfully, and i 'hope' i am right on this, thankfully i don't think the general view is that LJ plays for any other reason other than ability/best choice and the nepotism suggestions are the minority. I just pray and hope that the future doesnt hold true on the following 'its always the minority who ruin it for the rest of us'...because if this bubbles for too long, it will eventually boil over.

If the heated debate the other day was about his son, i sure as hell hope he told the incredulous individual to '**** off and come back when you know something, anything, about football', and GJ if your reading this, please be safe in the knowledge that you would be talking on behalf of all those who either a) understand football and/or b) have the courtesy not to do you the injustice of accusing you of nepatism, which the majority of us (LJ fans or not) all know is complete and utter tripe.

£20k a week must soothe the pain somewhat

[cheese]

This is missng the point....it isnt libelous to suggest that Johnson picks his son because of nepotism

I think you'll find it could be construed that way - GJ could claim that saying that he picks his teams based on anything other than merit damages his reputation - and that is libel.

"When are words defamatory?

There is no set definition of 'defamatory'. A statement may be considered to be defamatory if it tends to do any one of the following:

1. lower the claimant in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally;

2. disparage a claimant in his business, trade, office or profession;

3. expose the claimant to hatred, ridicule or contempt; or

4. cause the claimant to be shunned or avoided.

Main defences:

1. Justification

The defence of justification, or truth, is a complete defence to a libel action. The onus is on the defendant to prove that the allegations are true.

Whilst the defendant does not, necessarily, have to prove the truth of each and every fact, he does have to prove the truth of the substance of the

allegation, the defamatory 'sting'.

2. Fair comment

Expressions of opinion, based upon true facts, made in good faith and without malice on a matter of public interest may be protected. Note the distinction

between fact and opinion.

The facts must be proved to be true and the opinion, the subject of the fair comment defence, must be honest. Therefore the facts upon which the

comment is based must be correct. It does not matter if the view expressed is extreme, so long as it is an honestly held view and not malicious. For this

purpose, 'malice' may be established if it can be proven that the commentator did not genuinely hold the view he expressed."

Hope that helps.

[Robbored]

Gary Johnson has belief in a system...a certain way of playing a game. Lee Johnson, to my mind, is an intregal part of that system, and so is played in the team.

I don't think anyone can argue that the system that Gary likes to play is anything other than successful....his record speaks for itself.

I find it absolutely crazy that some on here suggest that Lee only plays because his Dad is the manager, and as such receives special treatment. Does anyone really think that Gary could get away with that, both during his time at Yeovil and in the time that he has been here? Does anyone seriously believe that someone such as Steve Lansdown would allow such a thing to happen, to the supposed detriment of the team?

It must be very hard to play in your "Dads' team", particularly when we're talking being in the spotlight of league football, and it must be extremely hard when you face constant criticism from certain quarters. Yet I have nothing but admiration for the way Lee conducts himself. He always gives 100%, he never tries to hide and will always offer himself to receive the ball, and he is always applauding the fans at the end of a game.

Hopefully, Lee will one day be replaced by a better player....same as I hope every player at BCFC will be replaced by someone better, and when that happens I will applaud Gary for making that change. Until that time Lee deserves the support of Bristol City fans. He does NOT deserve the constant slagging off that he gets on here!

Bloody well said! I 100% agree but unfortunately you won't alter the rigid views of a few on here who will always be convinced that Lee Johnson plays every week through nepotism and not because of his abilty. LJ is aware of what some fans think which makes the way he conducts himself and goes about his job very admirable.

That said I still think that for LJ's own professional satifaction he'd be better off playing for another manager.

[A Horse With No Name]

Are we STILL doing this? Sometimes i wonder why GJ bothers with this club, at all. Thankfully, and i 'hope' i am right on this, thankfully i don't think the general view is that LJ plays for any other reason other than ability/best choice and the nepotism suggestions are the minority. I just pray and hope that the future doesnt hold true on the following 'its always the minority who ruin it for the rest of us'...because if this bubbles for too long, it will eventually boil over.

If the heated debate the other day was about his son, i sure as hell hope he told the incredulous individual to '**** off and come back when you know something, anything, about football', and GJ if your reading this, please be safe in the knowledge that you would be talking on behalf of all those who either a) understand football and/or b) have the courtesy not to do you the injustice of accusing you of nepatism, which the majority of us (LJ fans or not) all know is complete and utter tripe.

OK, let's pose another question. If GJ was to leave this club next week for somebody else, higher up the ladder than ourselves, does anybody seriously think that LJ would be in the team, or even at the club for that matter, come the end of April?

[bh red]

Is it any wonder players get paranoid when reading some of the garbage that is spouted on these forums ?

You've slated Gary Mac lately, why FFS ? He hasn't been playing badly, name the last time his winger got round him ? Last time he made a bad mistake defensively. He does his job, yesterday his job was getting forward & he did it superbly.

Same with Lee Johnson ad nauseum. Why should he be dropped, he does his job to the betterment (if that's a word) of the team, and that team is 8th with every chance of making the playoffs again this season.

since he came back from injury his forms been very up and down, brum and blackpool in particular he had very poor games and at Reading he was also very off his game, but in his defence and as I've said, he'll have bad games, dreadful game, but he'll also have some very good games, I'd say Tuesday was the best he played in a while.

why should Johnson be dropped, because of his form he's not been playing well for a while and there now and there are better options within the team, in terms of his ability and form, he'd be behind Williams and Noble in terms of attacking midfielders, he just doesn't do enough on a regular basis and long term he is a weak link in the team I feel and with all players fit, he'd not get in the my starting 11 and would do well to be on the bench.

Williams, Skuse, Elliott and Noble are all players I'd have higher in the pecking order in any midfield

[mindjuicer]

I can understand how some fans simply miss LJ's game, after all they're not exactly Krypton Factor material. And LJ is the easiest target of abuse there is.

It's when they boo him or Stern John and don't even think about how it will affect them that bothers me.

Accusations of nepotism say more about the accuser than anything else.

We can all agree that LJ has been lucky to keep his place.

And, assuming Marv is back for Preston, it'll probably be Skuse on the bench. But that's just timing not nepotism or anything else.

What we've yet to get an answer for is: which game should GJ (without hindsight) have dropped LJ for?

What we should really be talking about is the way the midfield has held up without Marv.

Those who thought it would collapse were completely wrong. The way Skuse and Williams have stepped up has been phenomenal.

[simon uk]

it is a bit of a next door neighbours dog walkers cousin kind of thing, but a mate of mine knows someone within the set up, who reckons that GJ puts a lot of stock in stats - things like prozone, and in terms of passes completed, and distance covered, LJ apparantly comes out very highly, which is one of the reasons he stays in the team. In fairness, i have always said we could do better in his position, but he does seem to have picked up over the last few months, along with the rest of the team. We also had a chat about the standard back 4 contract that they have all signed, which if true, makes being a decent quality championship footballer a pretty lucrative line of work....

[windmillhillred]

OK, let's pose another question. If GJ was to leave this club next week for somebody else, higher up the ladder than ourselves, does anybody seriously think that LJ would be in the team, or even at the club for that matter, come the end of April?

Yes.

[redseptember]

On a slightly wider note, I do wonder why any manager would have their son/nephew/third cousin first removed at their club. It is not as if there is a shortage of footballers. In the case of the Family Johnson surely there are other midfielders somewhere out there who can do the job that LJ does which would relieve GJ of any hint of nepotism.

I can understand GJ having a trusty family member in charge of the scouting at the club but I cannot believe that LJ is the only footballer in the country who can do the job that GJ wants in the centre of midfield. So why enter a potential minefield of alleged favouritism in the first place.

It is not threads like this that I worry about or any of the opinions expressed on these boards. But if there is such a range of different viewpoints on the matter here, then there must be differing opinions in the changing room particularly from players who cannot get a game because the manager picks his son.

I am not suggesting that LJ does not deserve his place or that he owes his selection to his father but why sign your son in the first place and run the risk of other players thinking this. In the aim of achieving a united changing room the charge of nepotism is one that is easily avoided by not signing offspring in the first place.

Of course, if Senior Johnson had not signed Junior Johnson half the messages on this board would not have been written. And then what would we talk about?

[A Horse With No Name]

On a slightly wider note, I do wonder why any manager would have their son/nephew/third cousin first removed at their club. It is not as if there is a shortage of footballers. In the case of the Family Johnson surely there are other midfielders somewhere out there who can do the job that LJ does which would relieve GJ of any hint of nepotism.

I can understand GJ having a trusty family member in charge of the scouting at the club but I cannot believe that LJ is the only footballer in the country who can do the job that GJ wants in the centre of midfield. So why enter a potential minefield of alleged favouritism in the first place.

It is not threads like this that I worry about or any of the opinions expressed on these boards. But if there is such a range of different viewpoints on the matter here, then there must be differing opinions in the changing room particularly from players who cannot get a game because the manager picks his son.

I am not suggesting that LJ does not deserve his place or that he owes his selection to his father but why sign your son in the first place and run the risk of other players thinking this. In the aim of achieving a united changing room the charge of nepotism is one that is easily avoided by not signing offspring in the first place.

Of course, if Senior Johnson had not signed Junior Johnson half the messages on this board would not have been written. And then what would we talk about?

Good post. The thing that surprises me though, is why LJ would want to play for his father for exactly the same reasons. He will never know whether he could have made it elsewhere, without his dad running the side, and surely his professional conscience would demand he find out? I know he tried it once at Hearts, and that never really worked, so he came scuttling back home. I have often said before, that when LJ is on form he is a very, very good player and has been crucial to our success, especially last season, and it was only when he was injured for a spell at the back end, that we struggled. Co-incidence? With regards to the whole GJ LJ thing,and wharever your views on it, we have been very fortunate to have had 3 very successful seasons, but can you imagine how this subject would fester, and then explode should be have a nightmare spell? We could end up losing the one thing that is paramount to this club's future and that is our manager.

[BCFC_Dan]

OK, let's pose another question. If GJ was to leave this club next week for somebody else, higher up the ladder than ourselves, does anybody seriously think that LJ would be in the team, or even at the club for that matter, come the end of April?

Depends who gets the managers job. In the short term at least it'd probably be Keith Millen and I'd expect him to largely stick with Gary's team and tactics so yes I'd expect Lee to stay in the team. Even if someone from outside the club comes in I doubt they'd dismiss Lee entirely unless they're a particularly incompetent manager (maybe we could get Danny Wilson back, and Joe Burnell's been released by Oxford so he could have Lee's place...)

I'd also be very surprised if other midfield combinations aren't tried in training and maybe a pairing of Williams/Noble and Skuse/Elliot simply hasn't worked. If it doesn't work in training there's no way it'll work in a match.

[SE23Red]

On a slightly wider note, I do wonder why any manager would have their son/nephew/third cousin first removed at their club. It is not as if there is a shortage of footballers. In the case of the Family Johnson surely there are other midfielders somewhere out there who can do the job that LJ does which would relieve GJ of any hint of nepotism.

I can understand GJ having a trusty family member in charge of the scouting at the club but I cannot believe that LJ is the only footballer in the country who can do the job that GJ wants in the centre of midfield. So why enter a potential minefield of alleged favouritism in the first place.

It is not threads like this that I worry about or any of the opinions expressed on these boards. But if there is such a range of different viewpoints on the matter here, then there must be differing opinions in the changing room particularly from players who cannot get a game because the manager picks his son.

I am not suggesting that LJ does not deserve his place or that he owes his selection to his father but why sign your son in the first place and run the risk of other players thinking this. In the aim of achieving a united changing room the charge of nepotism is one that is easily avoided by not signing offspring in the first place.

Of course, if Senior Johnson had not signed Junior Johnson half the messages on this board would not have been written. And then what would we talk about?

It is funny that away from this forum (yes there is a world out there folks ) we are probably considered as having the exception that proves the rule. Situations like Pulis jnr at Stoke are where nepotism is really at work, someone getting contracts wherever dad goes without ever looking like getting a first team game.

The GJ/LJ partnership have ~300 games, 3 promotions and a championship playoff final under their belts already. Even if it is nepotism - which it isn't - I'm all for that kind of success!

[PhatWill]

Gary Johnson has belief in a system...a certain way of playing a game. Lee Johnson, to my mind, is an intregal part of that system, and so is played in the team.

I don't think anyone can argue that the system that Gary likes to play is anything other than successful....his record speaks for itself.

I find it absolutely crazy that some on here suggest that Lee only plays because his Dad is the manager, and as such receives special treatment. Does anyone really think that Gary could get away with that, both during his time at Yeovil and in the time that he has been here? Does anyone seriously believe that someone such as Steve Lansdown would allow such a thing to happen, to the supposed detriment of the team?

It must be very hard to play in your "Dads' team", particularly when we're talking being in the spotlight of league football, and it must be extremely hard when you face constant criticism from certain quarters. Yet I have nothing but admiration for the way Lee conducts himself. He always gives 100%, he never tries to hide and will always offer himself to receive the ball, and he is always applauding the fans at the end of a game.

Hopefully, Lee will one day be replaced by a better player....same as I hope every player at BCFC will be replaced by someone better, and when that happens I will applaud Gary for making that change. Until that time Lee deserves the support of Bristol City fans. He does NOT deserve the constant slagging off that he gets on here!

Best post in the thread.

The fact that LJ didn't start the play-off final pretty much blows any theories of nepotism out the window. No matter if LJ had only played a small part in the semi-final games, no matter if he was substituted on at half time (due to an injury) if GJ was that biased towards his son he'd have surely started him in the biggest game of his life?

I agree though, LJ is an integral part of the system that GJ plays and has also been an integral part of the success achieved at BCFC over the past 3 seasons.

[wookey]

OK, let's pose another question. If GJ was to leave this club next week for somebody else, higher up the ladder than ourselves, does anybody seriously think that LJ would be in the team, or even at the club for that matter, come the end of April?

Of course not!!

He would be in Dad's new team.

[Seend Red]

Lee Johnson as only ever played games under his dad, when G Johnson was off in Latvia his boy was at Brighton and didn't make a start in the best part of a year then Gary went to Yeovil in 2001 and guess what! Lee went to Yeovil within 3 weeks of dad taking over.

Then Gary goes to Bristol City and within 4 months of this Lee leave's Yeovil to make it on his own only to fall flat on his face at Hearts and only makes one start in 6 months, guess who saves him from his misery up in Scotland, step in Gary again who brings him down to City. Seeing the pattern yet?!

Point being he's only ever played regular football when his Dad is the manager and I have no doubt if Gary left tomorrow Lee would leave soon after, possibly not to the same club, but within a year he'd be back in his dad's squad.

Had Lee Johnson's Dad not been a good manager who would of saved him from the footballing darkness whilst at Brighton and Hearts? Any other footballer would of had to ride it out, like they say, it's not what you know it's who you know!

Thats is all fact! I know it won't go down well on here as every likes to beleive that Gary is superhuman and beyond natural paternal instinct and couldn't possibly be guilty of loving his boy and wanting him to make the grade as a professional footballer at the highest level possible regardles of the reality that he falls short. (excuse the pun).

[Riaz]

Lee Johnson as only ever played games under his dad, when G Johnson was off in Latvia his boy was at Brighton and didn't make a start in the best part of a year then Gary went to Yeovil in 2001 and guess what! Lee went to Yeovil within 3 weeks of dad taking over.

Then Gary goes to Bristol City and within 4 months of this Lee leave's Yeovil to make it on his own only to fall flat on his face at Hearts and only makes one start in 6 months, guess who saves him from his misery up in Scotland, step in Gary again who brings him down to City. Seeing the pattern yet?!

Point being he's only ever played regular football when his Dad is the manager and I have no doubt if Gary left tomorrow Lee would leave soon after, possibly not to the same club, but within a year he'd be back in his dad's squad.

Had Lee Johnson's Dad not been a good manager who would of saved him from the footballing darkness whilst at Brighton and Hearts? Any other footballer would of had to ride it out, like they say, it's not what you know it's who you know!

Thats is all fact! I know it won't go down well on here as every likes to beleive that Gary is superhuman and beyond natural paternal instinct and couldn't possibly be guilty of loving his boy and wanting him to make the grade as a professional footballer at the highest level possible regardles of the reality that he falls short. (excuse the pun).

Seend - you convieniently missed out all the success they've had.

Promotion from Conference to League Two

League Two to League One

League One to the Championship

And a goal away from the Prem

He was a key player in all that success.

Why did you miss that part out? very silly.

[edson]

Seend - you convieniently missed out all the success they've had.

Promotion from Conference to League Two

League Two to League One

League One to the Championship

And a goal away from the Prem

He was a key player in all that success.

Why did you miss that part out? very silly.

Or that he was only 20 when he joined Yeovil, or that he was Yeovil's player of the season three years running.

[cheese]

Lee Johnson as only ever played games under his dad, when G Johnson was off in Latvia his boy was at Brighton and didn't make a start in the best part of a year then Gary went to Yeovil in 2001 and guess what! Lee went to Yeovil within 3 weeks of dad taking over.

Then Gary goes to Bristol City and within 4 months of this Lee leave's Yeovil to make it on his own only to fall flat on his face at Hearts and only makes one start in 6 months, guess who saves him from his misery up in Scotland, step in Gary again who brings him down to City. Seeing the pattern yet?!

Point being he's only ever played regular football when his Dad is the manager and I have no doubt if Gary left tomorrow Lee would leave soon after, possibly not to the same club, but within a year he'd be back in his dad's squad.

Had Lee Johnson's Dad not been a good manager who would of saved him from the footballing darkness whilst at Brighton and Hearts? Any other footballer would of had to ride it out, like they say, it's not what you know it's who you know!

Thats is all fact! I know it won't go down well on here as every likes to beleive that Gary is superhuman and beyond natural paternal instinct and couldn't possibly be guilty of loving his boy and wanting him to make the grade as a professional footballer at the highest level possible regardles of the reality that he falls short. (excuse the pun).

But that's not unusual is it. There are many players that follow managers around and only seem to perform under them and fail at other clubs. Therefore, your analysis is only valid if you take those into account - I take it you did, didn't you? Managers buy players they know and trust because they do the job they know they can do - hence why GJ has bought quite a few players that have played for him previously (Mcindoe, Williams etc). I don't believe he's related to those two.

[PhatWill]

Lee Johnson as only ever played games under his dad,

Thats is all fact!

Well its not is it because he played at Hearts?

You say he was a flop at Hearts or whatever but I think you'll find that his chances of playing in the first team were severely hampered by virtue of a certain mega rich owner coming in and signing bundles of players for bundles of cash. And picking the team himself!

If LJ was so useless why did Hearts sign him in the first place?

[tompo]

Or that he was only 20 when he joined Yeovil, or that he was Yeovil's player of the season three years running.

Or that, had we won promotion last season, LJ would have been the first player to have won promotion from every division from the Conference to the Premier League.

Edit: Sorry Riaz missed your post above pointing out the same.

[downendcity]

Good news for all the LJ doubters and sceptics, 'cause Fulham and Middlesbrough are said to be preparing £2m bids for Lee J in the summer.

It's in football rumours so it [i]MUST be true!

[Seend Red]

Good news for all the LJ doubters and sceptics, 'cause Fulham and Middlesbrough are said to be preparing £2m bids for Lee J in the summer.

It's in football rumours so it [i]MUST be true!

Just proves what a pile of crap that site is! Lee J in the Premier league :noexpression: Gerrard and co would wet themselfs laughing

[red man dan]

OK, let's pose another question. If GJ was to leave this club next week for somebody else, higher up the ladder than ourselves, does anybody seriously think that LJ would be in the team, or even at the club for that matter, come the end of April?

Maybe no, maybe yes! who knows the same could be said of ANY player. The fact that it is LJ, the former managers son, would have no bearing on it what so ever. Any player at a club has his place in the balance when a new manager comes in. Certain managers like certain players, some who are good for one may not be good for an other. Depends on the way the manager plays, what kind of players he likes etc etc, so i don't really think your question really makes any sort of point.

[Economou]

Just proves what a pile of crap that site is! Lee J in the Premier league :noexpression: Gerrard and co would wet themselfs laughing

Don't forget that 3/4 of the Premier League don't have players of Gerrards quality. Maybe LJ could cut it for a mediocre premier league team.

[Guest MaloneFM]

And answer me this one then....how come sir Alan Dicks never played his son Julian then eh? Eh? Eh? Or Danny Wilson never signed OR played his kid Jackie eh? Eh? See what I'm getting at? Eh? :noexpression:

[bh red]

Well its not is it because he played at Hearts?

You say he was a flop at Hearts or whatever but I think you'll find that his chances of playing in the first team were severely hampered by virtue of a certain mega rich owner coming in and signing bundles of players for bundles of cash. And picking the team himself!

If LJ was so useless why did Hearts sign him in the first place?

who knows the Hearts situation was a funny one, but any manager who signs a player then plays him, but signed him and then barely played him and only gave him 90mins once and shortly afterwards sacked, he barely played again and was then allowed to leave promptly.

either way, every club he's been at so far, he's either been released or allowed to leave promptly when a new manager took over.

[Steve from Wales]

has anyone actually seen David Noble lately?

Yeh Tuesday driving out the ground before ko