Robbored Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Well, here we are 42 games into the season and City are pretty much assured a place in mid-table. Yet an another draw at AG (thats 12 over the seson) and yet another late goal conceded. Thats Brum, Derby, Cardiff, Forest and Ipswich who have all found the City net within the last 7 mins of the game. Time to look at the season overall and upto xmas City were poor and slipped down to 18th place at one point. Then after xmas a great run of form put City back at the right end of the table but that good form couldn't be maintained and now its just one win in eleven games. This recent loss of form has co-incided with the run in and the fact that the team started to struggle when it really mattered indicates to me that they simply aren't good enough. That view is supported by the league table. Johnson has repeatedly referred to 'this bunch of lads' and the loyalty that he has shown them. Whilst loyalty is an admirable quality in anyone its not something that should be considered as important in the cut-throat enviroment of the Championship.The bottom line is results and apart from one decent spell in the season City have struggled to really threaten the play-offs and have got nowhere near the automatic places. Several conversations I've had with other City fans over the last few weeks have led me to realise that some fans are are begining to question Johnsons judgement and ask if he has achieved all he can achieve at City. One argued it was his lack of transfer activity during the Jan window that has cost City since. I'm not sure about that but just to hear voices of discontent is indicative of the unrest that some fans are feeling. I'm not talking about new fans or youngster fans but middle aged experienced City fans who opinions are worth listening to and respecting.They have been following City for decades. I'm sure that that some Johnson lovers will reply to this and say 'look what he's done at City' and 'remember where we were when Johnson took over' and they are valid comments but they are history. Some one famous once said that 'you are only as good as your last game' and thats so true now. Its make or break time over the summer. I reckon that more fans will lose faith in Johnson if we don't see some significant changes in the playing personel over the summer. Just ask yourself which players you would be disapointed to see leave City over the summer and you'll probably need less than the fingers on one hand to count them.That says it all in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I reckon that morefans will lose faith in Johnson Anyone that HAS lost faith in Johnson is a mug not worth thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Boy Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 It may be a lack of quality, it may be odd selections but what stood out more than anything today was the lack of creativity throughout the entire team! The running off the ball was poor, almost nobody took on their man and we used a tiny corridor down the middle of the pitch as though we were scared to go outside it. It might just be the bitterness from the way the game ended today but I felt both teams were so boring to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSR Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 wtf...really is johnson so bad? some fans make me laught noy happy to still be in the championship and progressing slowly rather than sinking like a lead ballon...bucnh of ungratefull twtas...face reality or go support rovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Boy Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Surely you can be happy to be in the Championship, still think Johnson is a good manager but be annoyed at the way we are playing at the moment? It must be as frustrating for the players as for the fans but whilst they can try and sort it out on the training ground, we can only talk about it!! Progress from 2 seasons ago? YES! Progress from last season? Not so sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 This bunch of lads has definitely taken us as far as it can - the manager needs to recognise that. We should spend the last few games playing primarily the players GJ is unsure about for next season, that means the youngsters and fringe players. Recall Akinde and Artus and play them. Put Wilson and Ribeiro in when they're fit. Keep Iriekpen in the side. Play Trundle. Start Styvar and see if there really is a footballer in there. Then at the end of the season cut the players who don't make the grade and bring in 5 or 6 first team players over the summer - we'll have that many leaving I'm sure so we just have to make sure that we add to the top of the squad in the right positions. Also, we need to pick a system and bring in players to fit it and impose it on the opposition. Not pick the players and then try and find a system to accommodate them. GJ has done a great job for the club but I think he's going to have to adapt a bit more to take us further - the game isn't the same all the way up the pyramid. I think we've now proved that hard work and great team mentality get you this far, the fringes of promotion, but no further. We need to add some real quality to get beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Anyone that HAS lost faith in Johnson is a mug not worth thinking about. Agree, but I think this coming pre-season is crucial. We need somewhere between a minor tweaking and a major overhaul, otherwise we might be in trouble next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Interesting post Robbo but the point that seems to be missed is the question of tactics. Yet again today after taking the lead it was a case of playing 9-0-1, with Maynard and McIndoe as left backs and Sproule brought on to play second right back. We again surrendered the midfield with Lee and Marv playing just in front of the back four and let them have as much possession as they wanted. Sooner or later someone will make a mistake and we will give a goal away. Gary then conveniently blames the individuals concerned and moves on, not pausing to think that a second goal might have killed the game. Doesn't matter who you pick if you don't play to win you don't win. Time for a re-think on tactics, especially as I don't share the apparent expectation that there will be significant changes in the squad this summer, precisely because he will stick with the vast majority of his "lads". BTW I thought Izzy was vastly better than McCombe, so I imagine there is no chance of him getting a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Agree, but I think this coming pre-season is crucial. We need somewhere between a minor tweaking and a major overhaul, otherwise we might be in trouble next season. Agreed, we have been either very good or fairly poor this season which has resulted in 2 poor runs and one excellant one- I'm sure if we could have found some consistent form over the season I'm we would be talking about the play offs, however, i don't think we need a major clear out but we definatley need 2 or 3 real quality signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 'This bunch of lads' looked far better than an Ipswich side with some fairly decent players, who would generally be considered the benchmark for upper mid-table in the league. Some tweaking here and there and a couple of new faces are needed but by and large there is nothing wrong with them and no reason at all why they can't have a good go at the playoffs next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fka dagest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I largely agree with Nibor. Johnson has plenty to offer yet, but the current squad doesn't. Sentimentality needs to go out of the window and we need to replace a few players who really aren't consistently good enough. Personally, I'd be looking to move on McCombe, McAllister, McIndoe at least and possibly Adebola, Lee Johnson and Bradley Orr. Can someone answer this: Does McIndoe have a free role? What is his position? I'm sick of seeing him wandering all over the pitch with out providing a much needed outlet on the leftwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Well, here we are 42 games into the season and City are pretty much assured a place in mid-table. Yet an another draw at AG (thats 12 over the seson) and yet another late goal conceded. Thats Brum, Derby, Cardiff, Forest and Ipswich who have all found the City net within the last 7 mins of the game. Time to look at the season overall and upto xmas City were poor and slipped down to 18th place at one point. Then after xmas a great run of form put City back at the right end of the table but that good form couldn't be maintained and now its just one win in eleven games. This recent loss of form has co-incided with the run in and the fact that the team started to struggle when it really mattered indicates to me that they simply aren't good enough. That view is supported by the league table. Johnson has repeatedly referred to 'this bunch of lads' and the loyalty that he has shown them. Whilst loyalty is an admirable quality in anyone its not something that should be considered as important in the cut-throat enviroment of the Championship.The bottom line is results and apart from one decent spell in the season City have struggled to really threaten the play-offs and have got nowhere near the automatic places. Several conversations I've had with other City fans over the last few weeks have led me to realise that some fans are are begining to question Johnsons judgement and ask if he has achieved all he can achieve at City. One argued it was his lack of transfer activity during the Jan window that has cost City since. I'm not sure about that but just to hear voices of discontent is indicative of the unrest that some fans are feeling. I'm not talking about new fans or youngster fans but middle aged experienced City fans who opinions are worth listening to and respecting.They have been following City for decades. I'm sure that that some Johnson lovers will reply to this and say 'look what he's done at City' and 'remember where we were when Johnson took over' and they are valid comments but they are history. Some one famous once said that 'you are only as good as your last game' and thats so true now. Its make or break time over the summer. I reckon that more fans will lose faith in Johnson if we don't see some significant changes in the playing personel over the summer. Just ask yourself which players you would be disapointed to see leave City over the summer and you'll probably need less than the fingers on one hand to count them.That says it all in a nutshell. Don't know your circle of friends obviously but in my experience a lot of the older fans are the most cynical/negative moaners you can get. Tell them to look at the bigger picture Robbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Tell them to look at the bigger picture Robbo. Which would be what? Another season of midtable obscurity with an average squad of players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Which would be what? Another season of midtable obscurity with an average squad of players? Maybe if that is your your friends mindset and outlook, you they could go and watch the sags. Oh wait.......... you already do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Chelt Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 We had a team that just lost out in the play offs last season - so I think most people will understand why GJ persevered with the squad of players that almost reached the Premership. Compared to last season we've underperformed but I imagine Johnson will know that as well as anyone. Last season everyone moaned about our strikers. GJ seemed to recognise this too and brought in Maynard, Akinde, Styvar and John. I don't think anyone really sees our weakness as being up front now. Likewise I imagine he'll be looking to bring in some competition for the midfield and defence next season. But it's not as easy as all that - there's a lot of big clubs in our league who can spend more on transfers and wages. Maybe Newcastle and Middlesbrough next season for example. Realistically, we're a mid-table club fighting for a small pool of players who will actually improve us, against a dozen or so similar clubs wanting to do the same. What I'm trying to say is that we can't expect giant strides, there's probably not going to be a pre-season panacea, we'll probably carry on building slowly and GJ will do his best with the money he has against the competition there is for quality players. In real life, that's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Which would be what? Another season of midtable obscurity with an average squad of players? The thing is we haven't been mid table since xmas and could still finish 7th. Get behind the team, stop moaning. Of course the last few games have been frustrating but injuries have taken their toll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Maybe if that is your your friends mindset and outlook, you they could go and watch the sags. Oh wait.......... you already do Pissed again Moomin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Pissed again Moomin? No, I just find your bleak outlook rather typical. Robbored moaning about things, what a suprise. Although I like the change of style to "I have a friend who....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 The thing is we haven't been mid table since xmas and could still finish 7th. Get behind the team, stop moaning. Of course the last few games have been frustrating but injuries have taken their toll. No-ones moaning.Just expressing some concerns about the season overall (not just the last few games) and what Johnson will do about it in time for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Parrot Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Not read every word but get the gist of it. Don't agree with it though. This season we've been better than the teams around us and but for stupid mistakes, refereeing decisions and late goals would be far higher. Play this season over again with the same players and I think we'd finish higher than what we are. Moreover, "this bunch of players" are largely new. Apart from the backline and LJ I think most weeks they are all post-promotion players and he has brought in new blood and I am sure will continue to do so over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Wolves are going to go up this year, why? Because they have strength in depth Iwelumo injured...They bring in Vokes Ebanks Blake injured.. They bring in Keogh 4 strikers that would get into any team in our division if Maynard is injured we would bring in John Adebola injured we would bring in Akinde The quality difference is huge and thats what we need to change if we are to be a big threat next season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Wolves are going to go up this year, why? Because they have strength in depth Iwelumo injured...They bring in Vokes Ebanks Blake injured.. They bring in Keogh 4 strikers that would get into any team in our division if Maynard is injured we would bring in John Adebola injured we would bring in Akinde The quality difference is huge and thats what we need to change if we are to be a big threat next season! You really think Vokes and Keogh are any better than John? Have a look at his record in the Championship. Edit: Also Akinde and Vokes have come from a similar level with similar goalscoring records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hustler Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 From what I understand, the players that will be leaving are.... Weale Trundle Murray John Noble Myrie-Williams Elliot Adebola And possibly both Sproule and Mcindoe, but those two are in the balance at the moment. So quite a big clear out of "this bunch of lads". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 We had a team that just lost out in the play offs last season - so I think most people will understand why GJ persevered with the squad of players that almost reached the Premership. Compared to last season we've underperformed but I imagine Johnson will know that as well as anyone. Last season everyone moaned about our strikers. GJ seemed to recognise this too and brought in Maynard, Akinde, Styvar and John. I don't think anyone really sees our weakness as being up front now. Likewise I imagine he'll be looking to bring in some competition for the midfield and defence next season. But it's not as easy as all that - there's a lot of big clubs in our league who can spend more on transfers and wages. Maybe Newcastle and Middlesbrough next season for example. Realistically, we're a mid-table club fighting for a small pool of players who will actually improve us, against a dozen or so similar clubs wanting to do the same. What I'm trying to say is that we can't expect giant strides, there's probably not going to be a pre-season panacea, we'll probably carry on building slowly and GJ will do his best with the money he has against the competition there is for quality players. In real life, that's good enough for me. A very balanced post and I wouldn't argue with it in principle (apart from the point I made earlier about negative tactics at home needing to change) but you make the same assunption as most people. It may prove correct but leaving aside the question of what we can afford to do in the current economic climate and no doubt another big loss this season (and assuming none of Gary's first choice players leaves of their own accord) I find it hard to believe he is going to ditch any of his usual first eleven. Will he ditch any of his preferred back five? Will he replace Lee or Marvin? Will he replace McIndoe? Is it reasonable to assume his first choice front two would be Adebola and Maynard? I don't see any sign he has lost faith in any of those players. Indeed he has said he would look at the players' attitude in the last four games before deciding. If he declares himself satisfied with it they will all presumably stay. Just as we must not have unrealistic expectations about promotion I think it is unrealistic to expect anything very significant by way of signings. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 i think you seriously over play make or break. Can we just get real, we have spent the best part of 20 years in Division 3, yes 20, no actually 30 bar a little interlude. Mid table for us is a blinder, really. How many teams in our league have been in the Prem? Not counted them, but over 3/4 I would guess. We still rely on one man bailing us out. I cannot comprehend anyuone seriously thinking our manager has taken us as far as he can, it is the most ludicrous, ill infomed and non sensical concept. No what we need is some change to the players yes, but January is not the time, any manager will tell you that, the time is the summer, and being in a play off final is a disaster for the teams, both are late to make their deals, well this year we are not, and this year I beleive you will see decisive action. Finally he has biotten the bullet on 'fans' players like Trundle and Noble, the manager finally admitting that the physical side of the game is actually a standard, not optional. Being a party trick pony is not good enough, as a minimum in this game, you need the physical game (go and watch a Prem side live if you doubt it, and this season many Championship sides upped their work rate). What is needed at out club is a dose of reality, we have an awesome manager (not without his faults mind) and that is a huge building block. He needs plenty of time, years maybe, but when fans think this season is a disaster, have a look at the sides in the bottom 6. Look at who the hell they are, look at who has managed those sides and the money spent at all of them. Then take a breath, thank your lucky stars we now have direction, we are building a new ground, have proper training facilities, and have a club going in one direction only. It will take time, we have to change a 30 year history of a crock of poo football, and you cannot do that in 2 seasons, it is an evolution, we do not have money mountains, we do not have a right to expect promotion just because it is there. where we are really lacking is depth, our reserves are poor, we do not have enough cover, or enough competition for places, that is where we need to work, have genuine 2 players for every position, and from what I hear, that is what we will get. That is good enough for me, and , a very huge number of fans. agree with that. in some cases I do believe that two seasons of success has gone to some fans heads. having seen us for over a decade now, i firmly believe city have never had it so good. there is no room for complacency, which i think is one of robbo's main concerns but, Personally i think we're in a very good position. It would be stupid for SL and GJ to risk too much on forcing our way to the promised land when we have the infrastructure to progress sufficiently enough to reduce those risks. in 5 years when we have ribs and wilson bossing the championships best strikers about and john akinde has formed a lethal partnership with Nicky will be the logical time to take a big gamble on bringing in a few high class Premier League quality players to take us up. In todays climate and the apparent insecurity of football clubs nowadays risking things now would be foolish at best. for now, lets enjoy watching a decent side playing in the "6th best league in the world" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Robin Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 You really think Vokes and Keogh are any better than John? Have a look at his record in the Championship. Edit: Also Akinde and Vokes have come from a similar level with similar goalscoring records. Maybe not a couple of seasons ago, but now they are, records mean nothing its whats now that counts and as of today those two are better than John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I largely agree with Nibor. Johnson has plenty to offer yet, but the current squad doesn't. Sentimentality needs to go out of the window and we need to replace a few players who really aren't consistently good enough. Personally, I'd be looking to move on McCombe, McAllister, McIndoe at least and possibly Adebola, Lee Johnson and Bradley Orr. Can someone answer this: Does McIndoe have a free role? What is his position? I'm sick of seeing him wandering all over the pitch with out providing a much needed outlet on the leftwing. Me and my mate were trying to fathom this out today. Mcindoe is far to comfartable and desperatly needs competetion. He basiclly does what he wants and knows hes not going to get dropped as we simply have nobody else to play wide left. I would like to see this adressed in the summer, If Norwich go down then id like to see us go for Lee Croft. Imo he is as good if not better than Mcindoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 When we had our best run of the season, we were playing 433 (or a version of that), we changed back to a 442/451 when we picked up injuries.......that was the mistake that cost us a play off place IMO, we should have stuck with a winning formation, just replace a player with another. IMO, we aren't far off having a squad capable of a consistant top 6 finish, 3 or 4 players in important positions (CB/AM,LB), the trouble is our tactics have to change if we are to consistantly challenge for promotion. Next season I would go 433 (which can turn into a 451 if needed away from home BUT not at home) Basso/Weale Orr---New CB---Fontaine---McAllister/New LB Elliott (if still here)---Williams---Skuse/Johnson McIndoe---Adebola---Maynard Subs: Weale/Basso/Henderson Carey/McCombe/James Wilson Sproule/Johnson Styvar Akinde McCombe- not mobile enough Carey- positionally poor and has por concentration levels Trundle- League 1 player Noble- not fit enough for CCC BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Maybe not a couple of seasons ago, but now they are, records mean nothing its whats now that counts and as of today those two are better than John. I can't agree with that. Keogh in particular can't hit a barn door at this level, today excepted . Until he came to us John was still banging them in for Soton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanhamreds Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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