Maltshoveller Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 right well lets scrap the current league concept and hand out awards based on past titles then? Leeds have a history, accepted. Leeds have lots of fans(one club city?) Leeds are and have been for a decent amount of time now, a league 1 club. History and fan bases mean NOTHING in football... the results on the pitch are what DEFINES FOOTBALL. if man united were in league two btw, they wouldn't have 1 tenth of the support they have now... and we might even see city replica shirts in bristol rather than that scum... What a load of rubbish!! Without its history football is nothing 1982 means nothing to us then i take it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leobcfc1 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 not much of a personality on the pitch either..six goals in 66-sounds quality :noexpression: Look through my other posts regarding Chris Killen's strike rate in the SPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZedRed Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 The Premier League is a completely different ball game. He comes off the bench quite frequently for Everton every time I watch them on the box. and does what exactly?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 not much of a personality on the pitch either..six goals in 66-sounds quality :noexpression: 45 sub appearances- there is no doubt for me that, if fit, he would be a decent player at our level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 What a load of rubbish!! Without its history football is nothing 1982 means nothing to us then i take it? past experiences of course mean something to the fans... but just because we almost went bust doesn't change our reputation, and doesn't mean we merit such a ridiculous stature amongst fans like leeds seem to. leeds won titles once... now on merit they are a poor football team. football isn't in the past. it is now. having a history to harp back to is all well and good, but the whole point of football is, erm... the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Everton have an incredible 9 Premier League titles with crowds regularly of 39,000. Explain to me how this makes Everton a small club? Premier League has only been around since '92, League Championship prior to that, although Sky would have you believe footy only started in '92. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 The Premier League is a completely different ball game. He comes off the bench quite frequently for Everton every time I watch them on the box. Out of interest, would substitute appearances have come into consideration in your assessment of killens strike rate at celtic? i dont know what percentage of his games there were off the bench, but then again nor do you. unless you're a city fan who watches oldham every week and goes to scotland to watch celtic too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackers Corner Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 right well lets scrap the current league concept and hand out awards based on past titles then? Leeds have a history, accepted. Leeds have lots of fans(one club city?) Leeds are and have been for a decent amount of time now, a league 1 club. History and fan bases mean NOTHING in football... the results on the pitch are what DEFINES FOOTBALL. if man united were in league two btw, they wouldn't have 1 tenth of the support they have now... and we might even see city replica shirts in bristol rather than that scum... "Leeds have lots of fans(one club city?) " not their fault "Leeds are and have been for a decent amount of time now, a league 1 club." and we are currently better than them but they are still a bigger club than us and a big club. "History and fan bases mean NOTHING in football... the results on the pitch are what DEFINES FOOTBALL." i would retract that as it is very silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leobcfc1 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 if man united were in league two btw, they wouldn't have 1 tenth of the support they have now... and we might even see city replica shirts in bristol rather than that scum... I'd rather see Rovers shirts in Bristol as I'm from Bristol not Manchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leobcfc1 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Out of interest, would substitute appearances have come into consideration in your assessment of killens strike rate at celtic? i dont know what percentage of his games there were off the bench, but then again nor do you. unless you're a city fan who watches oldham every week and goes to scotland to watch celtic too? Chris Killen played 23 games and scored once, Anichebe has played in the Premier League and scored 6 goals in 65 games mainly from the substitutes bench. If Killen continued that strike rate Anichebe would have scored more goals than him and at a far better level. It's fairly pointless comparing his strike rate with Anichebe's though as Killen isn't good enough to play in the Prem, so we won't find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leobcfc1 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 45 sub appearances- there is no doubt for me that, if fit, he would be a decent player at our level. Exactly look how much time he's had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 You simply don't know this for a fact as you've never met him. Ridiculous post - ive never met lita or the likes of Craig Bellamy, does that mean they are saints? I thought there maybe some info on here but all i can see is this leo bloke arguing on the two threads i have opened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leobcfc1 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ridiculous post - ive never met lita or the likes of Craig Bellamy, does that mean they are saints? I thought there maybe some info on here but all i can see is this leo bloke arguing on the two threads i have opened I'm not going to waste any more time with the likes of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm not going to waste my time anymore with the like of you. Thank **** for that, do yourself a favour and dont waste no more time on here with anyone. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITW Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm not going to waste my time anymore with the like of you. Surely you just did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 History and fan bases mean NOTHING in football... the results on the pitch are what DEFINES FOOTBALL. There is no better definition of a club's "size" than the supporters it has. Fan base is a big factor in the players and managers a club can attract, in it's finances and in it's national and international perception in the game with other fans and in the media. History means a huge amount as well, it affects how stable a clubs fan base is and underpins the expectations everybody in football has of that club. Individual results have little effect. Ditto individual seasons. It takes a generation long trend to significantly and permanently affect the size of a club. Leeds are a much bigger club than us, so are Forest. The only way that would change is if we remained above them in the league for 10 years or more and had some sort of silverware success. You might not like it but it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 There is no better definition of a club's "size" than the supporters it has. Fan base is a big factor in the players and managers a club can attract, in it's finances and in it's national and international perception in the game with other fans and in the media. History means a huge amount as well, it affects how stable a clubs fan base is and underpins the expectations everybody in football has of that club. Individual results have little effect. Ditto individual seasons. It takes a generation long trend to significantly and permanently affect the size of a club. Leeds are a much bigger club than us, so are Forest. The only way that would change is if we remained above them in the league for 10 years or more and had some sort of silverware success. You might not like it but it's true. Maybe it's just me then, but i don't see what harping back to the "olden days" achieves? it does help with players yes, but success on the pitch is what we go to the football for, the present. I'm not at all fussed by how we are percieved so long as GJ attracts the right players and we keep winning, having a history has absolutely no effect on the end result on that area of grass. at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Maybe it's just me then, but i don't see what harping back to the "olden days" achieves? it does help with players yes, but success on the pitch is what we go to the football for, the present. I'm not at all fussed by how we are percieved so long as GJ attracts the right players and we keep winning, having a history has absolutely no effect on the end result on that area of grass. at all. Having a history affects the players you can bring in and therefore does affect the results. But the debate was not over what gets you better results or success, it was about the SIZE of clubs. You said Everton were a small club because they flirted with relegation before Moyes and you called Leeds a small club. That's a crock. If Leeds stay where they are for 20 years they might become a small club but they certainly are not at the moment despite having a tough time on the field over the last few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Having a history affects the players you can bring in and therefore does affect the results. But the debate was not over what gets you better results or success, it was about the SIZE of clubs. You said Everton were a small club because they flirted with relegation before Moyes and you called Leeds a small club. That's a crock. If Leeds stay where they are for 20 years they might become a small club but they certainly are not at the moment despite having a tough time on the field over the last few seasons. i've admitted the error in regard to everton. I wish people would read all the posts! I think its my perception of club size being different to everyone elses. I really have no value for history, My second team has always been Liverpool (dads a scouser) and I've never liked listening to them go on about how great they were(and yes they were! the old fella had all the VCR vids, I grew up on barnes, rush, dalglish and souness) their history hasn't helped them win the Premier League/top league for almost 20 years now... and what has kept them at the top end of football has been the money they have more than reputation. I do understand how a club is regarded could effect a transfer, But thats small margins... i'd honestly be suprised if any footballer worth their salt wanted to play under simon grayson in league 1 and not for gary johnson in the championship if given a straight choice... it's all immaterial and I do hat the tangents these threads take. The point remains the same whatever way you word it. Everton where in every way a poor poor football team with little to no finances when Moyes went there! He's probably the best manager in the Premier League bar (hurts me to say it) Fergie and Wenger. As a liverpool fan(mock me, I've spent a lot of money on this football club and followed it over land and sea, doesn't stop me sharing my support and having another club that i love) it's hard to admit that Beni isn't much in comparison to Moyes in terms of success. Maybe the style of play isn't as good, but he gets results! imagine if he had the money Beni has spent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 i've admitted the error in regard to everton. I wish people would read all the posts! I think its my perception of club size being different to everyone elses. I really have no value for history, My second team has always been Liverpool (dads a scouser) and I've never liked listening to them go on about how great they were(and yes they were! the old fella had all the VCR vids, I grew up on barnes, rush, dalglish and souness) their history hasn't helped them win the Premier League/top league for almost 20 years now... and what has kept them at the top end of football has been the money they have more than reputation. I do understand how a club is regarded could effect a transfer, But thats small margins... i'd honestly be suprised if any footballer worth their salt wanted to play under simon grayson in league 1 and not for gary johnson in the championship if given a straight choice... it's all immaterial and I do hat the tangents these threads take. The point remains the same whatever way you word it. Everton where in every way a poor poor football team with little to no finances when Moyes went there! He's probably the best manager in the Premier League bar (hurts me to say it) Fergie and Wenger. As a liverpool fan(mock me, I've spent a lot of money on this football club and followed it over land and sea, doesn't stop me sharing my support and having another club that i love) it's hard to admit that Beni isn't much in comparison to Moyes in terms of success. Maybe the style of play isn't as good, but he gets results! imagine if he had the money Beni has spent? sorry but you are spouting drivel again. The main reason clubs at a similar level attract players is all to do with history and tradition. Even when Everton were doing poorly they could still attract a much better caliber of player because of their history. Why the hell do you think that Liverpool can still attract the likes of Torres when they have done comparitavely little in real terms in the last 10-15 years compared to the likes of Man U and even Arsenal domestically? Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world because of their past, despite not being as rich as Man C, Chelsea etc, they will always be able to attract world class players because of their history. All players respect history when making a decision to join a club, Ronaldo didn't join Real Madrid because he'd get more money there, if he'd wanted to stay united would have paid him almost anything, but he wanted to move to a club, with an incredible histroy that absolutely dwarfs man U, same goes for barca, they are arguably the biggest club in the world. History and tradition is why Man United, Liverpool, Barca and Real Madrid will always be the biggest clubs in the world, no matter what levels of success they have in any short period of time, Real have been largely gash for the last 5-6 years but are still an absolutely enormous club. It's what Man U keep coming back and winning the title even when someone else throws insane amounts of money around and mabye upsets the order for a while, they will have ups and downs but nobody will replace either Man U and Liverpool as the biggest clubs in this country for the next 50 years and that will largely be down to their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 sorry but you are spouting drivel again. The main reason clubs at a similar level attract players is all to do with history and tradition. Even when Everton were doing poorly they could still attract a much better caliber of player because of their history. Why the hell do you think that Liverpool can still attract the likes of Torres when they have done comparitavely little in real terms in the last 10-15 years compared to the likes of Man U and even Arsenal domestically? Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world because of their past, despite not being as rich as Man C, Chelsea etc, they will always be able to attract world class players because of their history. All players respect history when making a decision to join a club, Ronaldo didn't join Real Madrid because he'd get more money there, if he'd wanted to stay united would have paid him almost anything, but he wanted to move to a club, with an incredible histroy that absolutely dwarfs man U, same goes for barca, they are arguably the biggest club in the world. History and tradition is why Man United, Liverpool, Barca and Real Madrid will always be the biggest clubs in the world, no matter what levels of success they have in any short period of time, Real have been largely gash for the last 5-6 years but are still an absolutely enormous club. It's what Man U keep coming back and winning the title even when someone else throws insane amounts of money around and mabye upsets the order for a while, they will have ups and downs but nobody will replace either Man U and Liverpool as the biggest clubs in this country for the next 50 years and that will largely be down to their history. yes but look at the likes of Ajax, not a third of the club they were, loosing all their players to bigger clubs and now they can't even win one of the worser leagues in europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_think_Jevons_is_good Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Victor's not all bad. I think he knows he's got alot of work to do, young players make mistakes and he'll learn from them. Had a fantastic game for us against Liverpool at Anfield in the league last season. If this move to City comes off tomorrow it'll be great for him. Well done GJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yessir Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Victor's not all bad. I think he knows he's got alot of work to do, young players make mistakes and he'll learn from them. Had a fantastic game for us against Liverpool at Anfield in the league last season. If this move to City comes off tomorrow it'll be great for him. Well done GJ. What!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 You simply don't know this for a fact as you've never met him. I have a first hand report on his behaviour from a certain ex city player now plying his trade in zumerset. In short, he was given a CSE Grade 5 for attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Chris Killen played 23 games and scored once, Anichebe has played in the Premier League and scored 6 goals in 65 games mainly from the substitutes bench. If Killen continued that strike rate Anichebe would have scored more goals than him and at a far better level. It's fairly pointless comparing his strike rate with Anichebe's though as Killen isn't good enough to play in the Prem, so we won't find out. Maybe Bednar is the answer then? or perhaps that Tico chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leobcfc1 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I have a first hand report on his behaviour from a certain ex city player now plying his trade in zumerset. In short, he was given a CSE Grade 5 for attitude. It's already been covered mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 It's already been covered mate. right you are then. there was simply far too much to read to notice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leobcfc1 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Maybe Bednar is the answer then? or perhaps that Tico chap. Bednar or Saborio would do nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21. Marcham Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Everton have an incredible 9 Premier League titles with crowds regularly of 39,000. Explain to me how this makes Everton a small club? Oh god. Thank **** they're back to school next week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Oh god. Thank **** they're back to school next week! you too oh no first year of college yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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