'big' Clubs

[gater2]

Very interesting comments. I think it's a very difficult one as has been mentioned as there are many different criteria, some of which will be made more of than others. Looking at the Prem at the moment is interesting, as some people have said, as I would definately say we are a 'bigger' club than Wigan and Hull. I think with regard to longer term prospects, history, catchment area etc. probably take largely a back seat in comparison to surely the two most important things when aiming for success: a good chairman (which we are lucky enough to have) who has money (probably medium(?) as far as chairmen go) and is willing to run the club sustainably; and secondly a good manager. Look at Leeds, Forest, Man City, Newcastle: all these clubs are 'huge' but they have been relegated in the last years from the prem and some have bounced back and some not. A lot of this depends on the chairman (look at Leeds - huge catchment area, massive stadium, lots of fans, but finding it hard to get out of league 1!).

Also you could factor in teams like Bradford, Barnsley, Charlton, MK Dons (Wimbledon) who aren't massive clubs but were in the Prem in the last two decades but have faired really badly after being relegated. What is the difference between these clubs and say Bolton, Boro (apart from last year), Wigan who aren't huge clubs but have been able to punch above their weight consistantly in the last few years. Would make an interesting study..

Also, controversial I know, but I really don't think the entertainment factor plays a big role. This is a results business. If we won 70% of our games 1-0 I gurantee we would get bigger gates and I for one could not care less whether we were playing hoofball.

Maybe the answer is for city fans to have more kids and take them along to city!

[Bris Red]

It’s going to take generations for City to become a BIG club, reason being Bristol is not a football hotbed like the many other areas of the country.

We need continued years of relative success to gradually build the fan base over time, but i fell the club is moving in the right direction here.

For me the next step is the new stadium, this will increase the average gate by several thousand IMO. This will pull more support in from the surrounding area, and if we can get promoted then I see no reason why we can’t sell out for most games in the first season.

I remember reading in one of the stadium reports that City predicts an average crowd of 23k when we move to the new stadium.

This IMO is the main reason we struggle to get the 20k + crowds we would all love to see. Up north the fans are a lot more fanatical, many people in Bristol wont go simply beacuse they cant ''afford'' the luxury, northeners dont have that attitude and a lot will scrimp and save every last penny to watch there team, It seems Bristolians dont have that attidude...

You also have to remember another BIG reasons, the fact that the south west isnt a footballing hot bed is bad enough, but the fact that the city has two clubs again causes an issue. Rovers got 8,000 on saturday and we got 14,000 the other week (which is a poor attendence for us, you could also argue 8k isnt that good for the gas either) straight away if you add those attendences togther you get 22k and that is on a bad day.. Bristol has suffered beacuse of it having two clubs big time IMO. With just one club im very positive we would be up there with the Derby's Notts Forest etc..

As much as we all hate it to admit it , a Bristol United ( i know it sounds terrible :noexpression: ) most probably would have benifited the city more.

[fka dagest]

This IMO is the main reason we struggle to get the 20k + crowds we would all love to see. Up north the fans are a lot more fanatical, many people in Bristol wont go simply beacuse they cant ''afford'' the luxury, northeners dont have that attitude and a lot will scrimp and save every last penny to watch there team, It seems Bristolians dont have that attidude...

You also have to remember another BIG reasons, the fact that the south west isnt a footballing hot bed is bad enough, but the fact that the city has two clubs again causes an issue. Rovers got 8,000 on saturday and we got 14,000 the other week (which is a poor attendence for us, you could also argue 8k isnt that good for the gas either) straight away if you add those attendences togther you get 22k and that is on a bad day.. Bristol has suffered beacuse of it having two clubs big time IMO. With just one club im very positive we would be up there with the Derby's Notts Forest etc..

As much as we all hate it to admit it , a Bristol United ( i know it sounds terrible :noexpression: ) most probably would have benifited the city more.

I don't agree that northerners are more fanatical or passionate. I say that, having lived up north for three years. I'd say they were much the same - disillusionment when things go wrong and over-optimism when things go right. I found them to be equally 'fickle'. As it's been said before, I remember the pre-keegan 10000+ crowds that Newcastle were getting.

I think the northern region has some advantages though, in that closer urban centres probably create a more interesting rivalry. In truth Bristol is a little bit stuck out on its own - bit of an island. The northern regions also have more history and history of success. Bristol has been starved of any success really, with only the boys in red having ever made any sort of mark on the national game.

[leobcfc1]

One thing I'd add to the whole debate is that Sheffield Wednesday should be second in the list in terms of their cracking history.

[Maltshoveller]

but they wont be missed.

What extraordinary statement to make tell that to SL

I had a S/T in the dolman for 15 seasons

I didnt renew it because i became bored

so now come up just 6-7 times a season

I was at the gate talking to sexton about why

i wouldnt renew

His response was "well if you dont buy your S/T somebody else will"

Told him if that was his attitude he could stick theS/T up his ass

[Barneyredballs]

I don't understand this "only ever been in champ" stuff? Over what time frame? It's wrong for nearly every team

time frame is since the conception of the championship in 2004-2005. I think you might find it is correct for nearly every team....

[Barrs Court Red]

Readings wrong

[Will Rollason]

If you had to rank all the clubs in the championship by how 'big' they are, how would it go? Taking into account history (both recent and further back), money, stadium, fans, prospects for the future etc.

big clubs big fan base.

1. Newcastle

2. Middlesborough

3. West Brom

4. Nottm Forest

5. Sheff Utd

6. Sheff Weds

7. Derby

8. Leicester

punching about mid table

9. Cardiff

10. Preston

11. Reading

12. QPR

13. Ipswich

14. BRISTOL CITY

15. Coventry

meh.

15. Palace

17. Swansea

16. Watford

18. Blackpool

20. Doncaster

21. Plymouth

22. Barnsley

23. S****horpe

24. Peterborough

I see us as a mid table side building a squad. Could push for play offs with a good run and a settled side. Not going to change our fan base overnight even if we hit the Prem.

Ricoh attendance on saturday ( cov vs Middlesbro) - 16771, looked terrible, half empty concrete bowl.

[Philip Belgrave]

I thought if I reposted this, it may get an answer. That was apparently the problem last time I asked a question.

Now there's an challenge I can't pass up.

(What an interesting debate, by the way).

Why do you need to go further than point one: "BRISTOL HAS A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVING IN IT "?

Indeed it has: together with its hinterland: well over one million. All those potential bums on seats- and, God Willing, they'll be soon be a brand new stadium to accomodate them all.

Birmingham has always had three leading sides-including West Brom- and Wolves are not far away either. Surely Bristol can support just one on a crude population comparison.

Forget about the lack of a particulaly distinguished history,look at Hull City: a record of sheer mediocrity, yet they are playing in the Premier League . Forget about Rugby rivalry, look at Wigan, apart from the pier .all the place used to be noted for was the prowess of its Rugby League team.

From the point-of-view of this outsider CITY has so much going for it. Surely a navel-gazing debate of whether CITY's has been a "BIG CLUB" in the past is purely academic. It's the potential that counts.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Now there's an challenge I can't pass up.

(What an interesting debate, by the way).

Why do you need to go further than point one: "BRISTOL HAS A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVING IN IT "?

Indeed it has: together with its hinterland: well over one million. All those potential bums on seats- and, God Willing, they'll be soon be a brand new stadium to accomodate them all.

Birmingham has always had three leading sides-including West Brom- and Wolves are not far away either. Surely Bristol can support just one on a crude population comparison.

Forget about the lack of a particulaly distinguished history,look at Hull City: a record of sheer mediocrity, yet they are playing in the Premier League . Forget about Rugby rivalry, look at Wigan, apart from the pier .all the place used to be noted for was the prowess of its Rugby League team.

From the point-of-view of this outsider CITY has so much going for it. Surely a navel-gazing debate of whether CITY's has been a "BIG CLUB" in the past is purely academic. It's the potential that counts.

That's why I never bothered to carry on the debate the most important thing for a successful football team is the population in its area.

If you cannot attract them you got to ask why, even now where fans are saying they had enough of this boring football other reply don't bother to go then.

The trouble is the eyes wide shut mob will do anything to deflected criticism from the manager or Club

[edson]

That's why I never bothered to carry on the debate the most important thing for a successful football team is the population in its area.

If you cannot attract them you got to ask why, even now where fans are saying they had enough of this boring football other reply don't bother to go then.

The trouble is the eyes wide shut mob will do anything to deflected criticism from the manager or Club

Oh, it wasn't because you had nothing more to add to the list, then.

You said ALL its advantages and came up with one.

[Rocky]

Imagine sitting next to AY every week, I think I might have to hang myself :noexpression:

Actually, I do sit next to two plebs in the Dolmoan, maybe I do sit next to him

[Guest ashtonyate]

Oh, it wasn't because you had nothing more to add to the list, then.

You said ALL its advantages and came up with one.

That the only one you need that's why the don's up sticks and moved to Milton keynes we have the most important ingredient the catchment area.

Its the constant under performing that has stop Bristol from having a Prem team

[Guest ashtonyate]

Imagine sitting next to AY every week, I think I might have to hang myself :noexpression:

Actually, I do sit next to two plebs in the Dolmoan, maybe I do sit next to him

Well bring two ropes if I got to keep watching this crap I will join you

[Barrs Court Red]

That the only one you need that's why the don's up sticks and moved to Milton keynes we have the most important ingredient the catchment area.

Its the constant under performing that has stop Bristol from having a Prem team

Yet you choose to avoid the evidence that catchment area doesn't equal a good team. It matters even less these days.

[edson]

That the only one you need that's why the don's up sticks and moved to Milton keynes we have the most important ingredient the catchment area.

Its the constant under performing that has stop Bristol from having a Prem team

Right, so you accept you were wrong to say 'all its advantages' because there aren't any more.

Do you ever consider that people with a negative mindset like you might be another thing holding the club back?

No? Thought not.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Right, so you accept you were wrong to say 'all its advantages' because there aren't any more.

Do you ever consider that people with a negative mindset like you might be another thing holding the club back?

No? Thought not.

We have the catchment area still what we don't have is a team the fire up the public.

When we got promoted the club was rocking over the last 3 season Johnson has steadily pee off the fan's with boring negative football but you and your eyes wide shut mob still come on here telling us how wonderful life is.

[Dollymarie]

Will somebody please put Ashtonyate out of his misery. Its getting beyond a joke now.

I am ashamed that you "support" the same club as I do.

[garlicbread]

That's why I never bothered to carry on the debate the most important thing for a successful football team is the population in its area.

If you cannot attract them you got to ask why, even now where fans are saying they had enough of this boring football other reply don't bother to go then.

The trouble is the eyes wide shut mob will do anything to deflected criticism from the manager or Club

Blackburn has a tiny population. The most improtant thing for a successful team football team is having a successful football team in the first place....

The simple facts are that away from a hardcore of about 10,000, people in our region don't particularly care for football or Bristol City. Were we to reach the prem, then we could easily get 25k+ evry week, because there is a catchment area, and your average armchair fan in the area would want to go andsee the prem...

...no different to the likes of watford, reading, coventry, so'ton, cardiff and many many others

[tompo]

[edson]

We have the catchment area still what we don't have is a team the fire up the public.

When we got promoted the club was rocking over the last 3 season Johnson has steadily pee off the fan's with boring negative football but you and your eyes wide shut mob still come on here telling us how wonderful life is.

Yeah, life is absolute crap. You're right. Do you have any sense of perspective at all?

Over the last three seasons the results on the pitch have far outstripped your wildest expectations. Look back at your posts about where you expected us to finish if you're even going to bother challenging that.

Because the results have proved you wrong, you turned to calling the players not up to standard (despite them surpassing all your expectations) and called for Gary Johnson to make wholesale changes and bring in quality over the summer. He did that too, so you had to leave that moan behind as well.

Now you've turned to calling the way the team has succeeded 'boring and negative'. The fact is, you're running out of things to moan about so have to alter your position to suit.

It's shameful really. You honestly can't see how people like you cause damage to a club, can you? Because that would require some level of self-awareness which you simply don't possess.

[Guest ashtonyate]

If catchment area is so important, how do you explain the fact that the North West has 8 current Premier League clubs?

Many of these clubs are based in what were relatively small industrial towns (Blackburn, Burnley, Wigan and Bolton) before becoming part of Metropolitan areas. Of those eight, seven would be classed as bigger clubs than BCFC. In fact, it could even be arued that Wigan would now have to be classed as a bigger club than BCFC.

Add Preston and tonight's opponents Blackpool to the mix, both of whom have far more illustrious histories than us then you will see that in the real world BCFC are comparative footballing minnows.

You seem to conveniently overlook the fact that historically the Midlands and the North West have always been hotbeds of football. How many of the original members of the Football league came from outside these areas?

Of the current 20 clubs in the Premier League, 8 are based in the North West, 5 in London and 4 in the midlands. All highly populated areas meaning diluted catchment areas.

That's the point all these northern club live next door to one another yet they manage to have a Premier League football team yet we with our large catchment area can't get one.

The answer we have never had a team in the area to firer up people.

[RedM]

Interesting debate, got me thinking.

Even though we have a large catchment area maybe the lack of a serious local rival doesn't help? As people have said oop north teams are falling over eachother. Football is a very territorial game where you want to beat your rivals, with a bit of spice added when the rivals are within a few miles of youself. Our rivals at the moment seem to be our Welsh 'friends' and an the Green Army well over 100 miles away.

Although I would hate to see the Gas promoted it would give us a rival of sorts. Maybe if Bath ever started playing football?

[Barrs Court Red]

That's the point all these northern club live next door to one another yet they manage to have a Premier League football team yet we with our large catchment area can't get one.

The answer we have never had a team in the area to firer up people.

Apart from the 70ls. Let me guess, you were moaning then too

[Barrs Court Red]

On another note, re catchment area; Wiltshire is the 5th biggest metropolitan authority, yet it's done little for Swindle or Sailsbury. Like greater Bristol, there just isn't the culture.

[garlicbread]

Yeah, life is absolute crap. You're right. Do you have any sense of perspective at all?

Over the last three seasons the results on the pitch have far outstripped your wildest expectations. Look back at your posts about where you expected us to finish if you're even going to bother challenging that.

Because the results have proved you wrong, you turned to calling the players not up to standard (despite them surpassing all your expectations) and called for Gary Johnson to make wholesale changes and bring in quality over the summer. He did that too, so you had to leave that moan behind as well.

Now you've turned to calling the way the team has succeeded 'boring and negative'. The fact is, you're running out of things to moan about so have to alter your position to suit.

It's shameful really. You honestly can't see how people like you cause damage to a club, can you? Because that would require some level of self-awareness which you simply don't possess.

Post du jour

(doesnt get a reply of course)

[garlicbread]

Interesting debate, got me thinking.

Even though we have a large catchment area maybe the lack of a serious local rival doesn't help? As people have said oop north teams are falling over eachother. Football is a very territorial game where you want to beat your rivals, with a bit of spice added when the rivals are within a few miles of youself. Our rivals at the moment seem to be our Welsh 'friends' and an the Green Army well over 100 miles away.

Although I would hate to see the Gas promoted it would give us a rival of sorts. Maybe if Bath ever started playing football?

Hmmn, not sure if that's true tbh.

When had a rival in the blue few for all those years it didnt really help anybody much. Plus these days, the blue few having a more successful rival down the road hasnt exactly helped them do any better either.

Statistically, derbys tend to end in draws, which should mean that the more rivals around you, the less points each season.

[Nogbad the Bad]

If you get chatting about football with people in Bristol you're far more likely to find they have knowledge and interest in Liverpool F.C. than City and Rovers combined.

I've lost count of the number of local Bristolian builders, plumbers etc. we've had in who support them, even go up to Anfield to watch them, and have brought up their children to support them.

Almost equally Manchester United, and latterly Chelsea too. I don't mean just watching them on Sky ( although there are many of those) but with tattoos and even shared season tickets, having actively chosen them as their team for life.

Bristol also has a massive percentage of non- Bristolians amongst it's population and most people in Bristol aren't interested in going to watch local league football full stop.

A big population is farly irrelevant if there's little or no genuine interest in the local clubs - for instance, I'm pretty sure we're the only family in our road in Southville who watch City.

If we ever go up, we will get 25,000 gates but they'll include the biggest away supports in the Premier League, and on all 4 sides of the ground too, with half those in attendance either openly supporting the opposition or more or less neutral.

We've got our 10-14,000 and that's about it - with City supporting young Bristolians in a minority I can't see it changing.

[gater2]

Forget about the lack of a particulaly distinguished history,look at Hull City: a record of sheer mediocrity, yet they are playing in the Premier League .

I would have to say I disagree with this. I think for long term prospects history has quite a bit influence simply because it will mean a bigger fanbase and prestige about the club. I would probably think that Leeds' 30 year prospects are probably better than Hull's and Wigan's. I know you can then get into a debate: what is football about, the present, future or past? The fact that Leeds have a big history means they have a big ground with lots of fans.

[barry_mack]

Bristol is bigger than Derby the reason they get bigger crowds is over the years they have had a football team that has performed.even though they are no that good at the moment they will be back in the prem before we are.

Going back a lot I know, but I just wanted to add - Derby were marauding around the lower echelons of the league before their success. This success was prompted by the arrival of their greatest ever manager; Clough. Who's to say that given the chance Johnson can't be our equivalent? Personally I beleive there is a 5 year plan, we know that competition is too hard this season but next season, when we'll be playing the likes of Wolves, Hull, Pompey, Leeds and Brentford, we'll have a much higher likelihood for success.