Hartley Transfer Listed Rumour.

[dezgimed]

ph has put a request in.

he aproached carey 1st and put is point to him.

its genuine, fact is hartley is better than lee j, his problem is city play through the middle and ph is well suited, needs less time, quicker feet ect ect, noble was far better than lee j in this role and hes gone.

The Carey issue is the same story I heard. I did post it but got deleted shock horror.

[Red_Monster]

The Carey issue is the same story I heard. I did post it but got deleted shock horror.

If true i wonder what Carey said to him? Hope he told him to stay.

[dezgimed]

If true i wonder what Carey said to him? Hope he told him to stay.

Alledgedly Carey had a word with the manager, saying a few players are concerned about team selection. He was then dropped accordin to the chap I spoke to. Only match I can remember him not starting is the Plymo one, which was a pretty significant day for Louis. Go figure.

[Phileas Fogg]

Alledgedly Carey had a word with the manager, saying a few players are concerned about team selection. He was then dropped accordin to the chap I spoke to. Only match I can remember him not starting is the Plymo one, which was a pretty significant day for Louis. Go figure.

I also thought it was strange he was dropped for that game, 550th game and all.

Let's hope none of this is true

[dezgimed]

I also thought it was strange he was dropped for that game, 550th game and all.

Let's hope none of this is true

Who knows.

Could be utter turd but thought it was an interesting theory.

[cinker]

LJ was MoM last week and fully rested so of course GJ will pick him. Hartley got on at half time and you lot are still whining. I didn't think he even played that well. Sno was miles better.

And sno is continued to be played out of his preferred position which is centre midfield. Smell the coffee ...

[westy]

the reasons above are exactly why LJ (regardless how good he is) is not in the best interests for bcfc. I've said loads of times it's just a stupid situation for the club to be in.

We maybe doing ok at the moment but with this sort of stuff not too far from falling apart at the seems and self distructing

come on GJ we all know you can lead us to the promise land - just for once put your pride aside move LJ on in Jan (with all our best wishes) and start putting our best 11 on the pitch being fair to the squad

[Tales From The Front]

the reasons above are exactly why LJ (regardless how good he is) is not in the best interests for bcfc. I've said loads of times it's just a stupid situation for the club to be in.

We maybe doing ok at the moment but with this sort of stuff not too far from falling apart at the seems and self distructing

come on GJ we all know you can lead us to the promise land - just for once put your pride aside move LJ on in Jan (with all our best wishes) and start putting our best 11 on the pitch being fair to the squad

I feel exactly the same way...they are great things going on at the club, but at time it seems to be hanging by a thread (hopefuly a total exageration).

I agree it would be in everyones interest it this happens.

[Tales From The Front]

And sno is continued to be played out of his preferred position which is centre midfield. Smell the coffee ...

It is a recuring theme over recent seasons.

[Ian M]

I feel exactly the same way...they are great things going on at the club, but at time it seems to be hanging by a thread (hopefuly a total exageration).

I agree it would be in everyones interest it this happens.

Personally I would be surprised if Lee left before Gary.

[Tales From The Front]

Personally I would be surprised if Lee left before Gary.

I think you are right....but thats the problem is it not, we nearly all to a man or woman believe Gary Johnson is good for the club, but debate continues to rage at the inclusion of Lee Johnson in the team at the expense of formation and other squad players

I feel sorry for Gavin Williams for example let alone Paul Hartley...if there was consistency surely more people would be championing this player as strongly as they defend Lee Johnson but they dont. And I dont think its the respective players ability thats the problem but the whole upsetting of the apple cart.

[dezgimed]

Personally I would be surprised if Lee left before Gary.

Thats ridiculous.

[Nibor]

I really don't believe that Paul Hartley is stupid enough to start questioning selections when he's only been here five minutes.

Yes, he should have been playing, but he would know that he doesn't need to say a word - the manager can't leave him out long.

I think this rumour is just malicious crap.

[Ian M]

Thats ridiculous.

Why? Someone else has already agreed with me so at least one other can see the reasoning in it. What about my suggestion seems so incredible to you?

[dezgimed]

Why? Someone else has already agreed with me so at least one other can see the reasoning in it. What about my suggestion seems so incredible to you?

Ok, why would he want to leave?

A) All the transfer money he gets to play with

B) The potential nice new stadium to move into as king

C) That guy in the Williams, oh and the new one in the Atyeo

D) His son being booed/jeered/whatever

E) Reading the forum which is what, 1% of our hardcore fan base

Neither seem very acceptable to me, for whatever reason.

[Ian M]

Ok, why would he want to leave?

A) All the transfer money he gets to play with

B) The potential nice new stadium to move into as king

C) That guy in the Williams, oh and the new one in the Atyeo

D) His son being booed/jeered/whatever

E) Reading the forum which is what, 1% of our hardcore fan base

Neither seem very acceptable to me, for whatever reason.

Thank you for expanding on your reasoning behind your views.

A) Other clubs have decent transfer budgets to work with.

B) Other clubs already have nice, bigger, more attractive stadiums than we currently have.

C) He seems to get what he describes as "dog abuse" at most games though, even though he's got us playing in our highest league position for 30 or so years.

D) As a father he'll clearly love his son and given he has us playing in our highest league position for 30 or so years with his son in the team he may be upset that a sizeable proportion of our support (judging by the cheer at the start of the second half yesterday) don't also appreciate him.

E) We're constantly being told by those who offer "constructive criticism" that they believe their views to be representative of the support as a whole as borne out by radio phone ins and the "interactions" GJ has with the crowd at Ashton Gate.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he's going to storm out in a huff just because a large number of fans cheered his son's substitution yesterday but the next time an attractive job became available if you were him and you had no in-bred "love" for this club wouldn't you consider asking your agent to have a quiet word with their board to see if they were interested if the above continues to happen? His CV certainly looks good enough for him to be a contender for higher positions.

[freezer]

I really hope that Paul Hartley has not put in a transfer request.

He is probably one of the highest quality central midfielders that we have had available to play for BCFC for quite a few years, and that could be the problem.

He knows that he is more than good enough and still can't seem to nail down a regular spot behind players such as Lee Johnson, who is really not fit to lace his boots but still gets picked to start ahead of him!

If he is as baffled as me no wonder he would want to leave.

If this were to happen then serious repurcusions would ensue.

It is now time for BCFC to sort it out........for the good of BCFC.

[Atticus]

Thank you for expanding on your reasoning behind your views.

A) Other clubs have decent transfer budgets to work with.

B) Other clubs already have nice, bigger, more attractive stadiums than we currently have.

C) He seems to get what he describes as "dog abuse" at most games though, even though he's got us playing in our highest league position for 30 or so years.

D) As a father he'll clearly love his son and given he has us playing in our highest league position for 30 or so years with his son in the team he may be upset that a sizeable proportion of our support (judging by the cheer at the start of the second half yesterday) don't also appreciate him.

E) We're constantly being told by those who offer "constructive criticism" that they believe their views to be representative of the support as a whole as borne out by radio phone ins and the "interactions" GJ has with the crowd at Ashton Gate.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he's going to storm out in a huff just because a large number of fans cheered his son's substitution yesterday but the next time an attractive job became available if you were him and you had no in-bred "love" for this club wouldn't you consider asking your agent to have a quiet word with their board to see if they were interested if the above continues to happen? His CV certainly looks good enough for him to be a contender for higher positions.

How would this help him though? Clearly he rates Lee Johnson, so dont you think he would try and buy him again at his next club? IMO with a new manager i dont think it would take a large transfer to prize him away here with the mids we got. You dont think any other clubs set of fans would eventually react the same way? Unless its league 1 or below of course.

It really does my head in when people say "ohh Johnson will leave because of our fans" as if no other clubs fans would react the same way. Just look at Lucas at liverpool, he gets tons of abuse from Liverpool fans, and he aint even related to Benitez!

[mindjuicer]

And sno is continued to be played out of his preferred position which is centre midfield. Smell the coffee ...

Are you saying that Sno's somehow less able on the left side of midfield in a 5-3-2?

He was City's MoM yesterday IMHO so I think he's quite happy with that position.

This whole thread is BS. Hartley's not happy (his family is still in Scotland) but he's not dumb enough to complain to GJ about it. Frankly, he shouldn't be complaining that our other midfielders are giving him competition for his place.

He has never been dropped and if he ever proves his superiority, he'll be automatic selection.

[Magic Man]

Paul Hartley is the best midfielder we've had since the likes of Gerry Gow in the 1970's

Look, I think Paul Hartley is a great player and probably should be picked ahead of Lee Johnson, but our best midfielder for nearly 40 years!!! - Are you being serious? He's only played 10 games in a city shirt.

[Nibor]

He has never been dropped and if he ever proves his superiority, he'll be automatic selection.

He was dropped after the Plymouth game in which he gave an excellent performance for LJ who kept the shirt as we decided to stick with a winning team. The inconsistency was crystal clear.

He HAS proven his superiority based on the games he's played and should already be an automatic selection.

[milo1111]

He was dropped after the Plymouth game in which he gave an excellent performance for LJ who kept the shirt as we decided to stick with a winning team. The inconsistency was crystal clear.

He HAS proven his superiority based on the games he's played and should already be an automatic selection.

exactly. we dont really know whether this rumour is true or not. but frankly if i was hartley i would be feeling pretty jarred off at being benched for a player who is clearly not of the same standard. im not saying LJ is useless, he has his qualities. but he isnt a paul hartley by any stretch and with this talk of rotation which seemed to only come out to rest PH and then stopped the following game, doesnt help GJ one jot.

its a shame because at the start of the season LJ was benched and i had hoped the penny had dropped for GJ. but i fear that was only due to a lack of fitness.

i dont think GJ conciously picks LJ because he is his boy, but i do feel that subconciously it effects his judgement of his abilities compared to others which is only natural. thats why it would be best for everyone if LJ played for another club and be judged fairly. if GJ left city and went for example to a reading and took LJ with him and LJ gave comparable performances for reading do you think that none of the reading fans would question his inclusion in the side??? if he went to a prem club and took him with him and did the same i'd wager there would be a riot at that club.

[City_pete1]

I heard this rumor. So I had a chat with a friend who is close with a few players and it turned out he had spoke to them about it.

He told me the rumor it is partly true... Hartley is unhappy at not starting and has voiced that opinion, but not to the extent rumored (i.e. no transfer request or big fall out).

Would love to know exactly what has gone on. No smoke without fire and all that....

[And Its Smith]

Dont know what Hartley's problem is. The way LJ picks the ball up from the back four and passes it 6 yards is incredible. Something Hartley could never do. He'd pass it longer and possible even create a chance.

I dont watch City to be entertained.

[Red Ferret]

He told me the rumor it is partly true... Hartley is unhappy at not starting and has voiced that opinion, but not to the extent rumored (i.e. no transfer request or big fall out).

In a way thats good news - it at least shows the guy is determined to play for our club and not just sit on the bench and collect one last pay packet before retirement

I think the next starting 11 is going to be very interesting

[milo1111]

I heard this rumor. So I had a chat with a friend who is close with a few players and it turned out he had spoke to them about it.

He told me the rumor it is partly true... Hartley is unhappy at not starting and has voiced that opinion, but not to the extent rumored (i.e. no transfer request or big fall out).

Would love to know exactly what has gone on. No smoke without fire and all that....

sounds very beleivable. hopefully this will now resolve itself anyway. following LJ and marvins poor showing saturday and with only 4 games in the next 5 weeks, meaning there will be no need for resting/rotation, its time for GJ to pick his best settled side now which surely must include hartley and let it have a decent run.

personally i would like to see us go 442 with skuse and hartley in CM, gavin williams or sno on the left and haynes on the right.

[downendcity]

I think this issue is more fundemental than whether PH is a better player than LJ, or not, dependig on your own point of view.

Since Tinnion I don't think we have had a real leader in midfield. Someone who can not only dictate play, but get other players playing and influencing the game. We've had decent players, and especially so now, but don't always seem able to get the best perfromances out of our best players. Paul Hartley appears to fit that role. When Hartley arrived, I expected that he would be the king pin, around who GJ would build his midfield,in the same way he builds the defence about Carey and I will still be surprised if that does not turn out to be the case over the course of the season

Another thread comments on Maynards form this season. Many of his goals he's made out of nothing, and we've not really supplied him too much to go at. However, his 2 goals against Boro were down to Hartley's vision and range of passing. Who else have we seen do that in recent times - perhaps the last such player was Tins?

We all have our own opinions as to the relative abilites of each player, and I think it is far to say that LJ divides these opinions like no other player. However, what I doubt would be in dispute, is Hartley's ability as on on the field leader, to bring other players into the game, and when necessary to take the game by the scruff of the neck. LJ is a good midfielder, and can hold is own within the squad, but I do not see him as having those same qualities, much as though we hear that Lee is well liked among his playing coleagues.

If Hartley had shingles, then he will have taken some time to recover full fitness, and perhaps GJ hasn't wanted to push him to far, to quickly. However, I can see a real danger that if, as it appears, LJ and PH are competing for one place in the team, then if LJ stays in possession , we will miss out on having a big character influencing midfield. Not only could this have an adverse effect on our play and results but if we do risk losing PH because he decides that, at his age, he can't afford to be hanging round the fringes of the team, when he knows he could still be playing regularly at this level, or even in the lower levels of the prem. (on footy rumours this morning it says that Boro are monitoring the situation with Hartley re a possible loan!)

In more ways than one, this could be a crucial decision, and one that influences the success of our season. Many have questioned GJ's handling of big players in the past. Losing Marcus was necessary because of the issues at the club, at the time, and events since then show that Gj was right. Losing LT, as we appear to be doing, seems right, given the quality of players GJ has bought in this season and that LT sadly didn't produce during his time here. Arguably, PH is the biggest player GJ has bought here, and if we were to lose him, especially if it was down to a straight choice of LJ/PH would , I can imagine there would be considerable fallout - and not just among fans.

Rotation is a double edged sword. The danger for GJ is, because of the questions always raised about Lee's selection, if rotation is not seen to be regular and consistant, and if perfromance and results do not justify the apparent inconsistancy, then it can (as on saturday) appear to be opportunist and self serving, and will only give fuel to those who want to raise the "n" word issue.

.

[red man dan]

Thank you for expanding on your reasoning behind your views.

A) Other clubs have decent transfer budgets to work with.

B) Other clubs already have nice, bigger, more attractive stadiums than we currently have.

C) He seems to get what he describes as "dog abuse" at most games though, even though he's got us playing in our highest league position for 30 or so years.

D) As a father he'll clearly love his son and given he has us playing in our highest league position for 30 or so years with his son in the team he may be upset that a sizeable proportion of our support (judging by the cheer at the start of the second half yesterday) don't also appreciate him.

E) We're constantly being told by those who offer "constructive criticism" that they believe their views to be representative of the support as a whole as borne out by radio phone ins and the "interactions" GJ has with the crowd at Ashton Gate.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he's going to storm out in a huff just because a large number of fans cheered his son's substitution yesterday but the next time an attractive job became available if you were him and you had no in-bred "love" for this club wouldn't you consider asking your agent to have a quiet word with their board to see if they were interested if the above continues to happen? His CV certainly looks good enough for him to be a contender for higher positions.

I fully agree, my only hope is that GJ has enough pride (and lets be honest, 'told you so' mentality) to stick with City regardless of other jobs that may arise, to finish the job he started. I believe GJ appaers to set goals, short and long term and doesnt seem interested in anything else untill he achieves them, that is what I believe will keep him at the club. He clearly see's himself as being able to take City into the premier league, and I fully hope that no other club could tempt him away from what he 'personaly' wants to achieve at City. With all the crap he and LJ get, i'd say its not out of love for the club and fans, as such, that he would stay, but as much for personal realisation of achieving 'his' goals. That said, i do think he appreciates the 'positive' support that many fans, though i wish it were many more, do give him and his players. There are numpties at every league club in the country, so its not likely to be any different elsewhere, though on the whole I think we have some of the most 'negative' whingers around.

Given GJ's CV, it is strange that he has not been touted for a number of positions over the last year or so, which gives me hope, as the reason may well be that he has made it clear he is staying at City. I dont think he could leave City with what he would consider 'un-finished buisiness', plus for the fans who give him(and his son, and other players, orr) personal abuse, I,m sure he would love to, and quite rightly, give them a big middle finger by way of promotion.

[mindjuicer]

He was dropped after the Plymouth game in which he gave an excellent performance for LJ who kept the shirt as we decided to stick with a winning team. The inconsistency was crystal clear.

No he wasn't.

Hartley isn't fit enough to play 3 games a week. If he was he'd have kept his place.

As such, LJ started and was MoM at Barnsley.

So why should GJ drop the MoM when he is fit?

He HAS proven his superiority based on the games he's played

When? Up until Saturday, LJ had been playing consistently well for about 5 games. In comparison, Hartley has had a couple of duffers.

LJ has been dropped this season and probably will be for Forest. Hartley never has. If GJ is following this semi-rotation policy, that's a bit unfair to Hartley as he's more likely to lose his place than other players. But he can't complain about losing his place to someone who got MoM and has been playing consistently well before that. Especially when he got on at half-time.

Not sure if Marv has been dropped but I can't see Skuse being dropped so the former probably will be.

Edit: Sno HAS proved his superiority IMHO. As such he's guaranteed a starting place even when not fit.

[Chivs]

He was dropped after the Plymouth game in which he gave an excellent performance for LJ who kept the shirt as we decided to stick with a winning team. The inconsistency was crystal clear.

He HAS proven his superiority based on the games he's played and should already be an automatic selection.

I have one worry about the gathering "Hartley to start" campaign.

On Saturday he had 20 minutes after half time where his passing, delivery of the dead ball (hello McAllister...), encouragement and all round general play was so superior to the guy he had replaced that even GJ must have been embarrassed.

Then we scored. And then...and then....

And then Hartley disappeared. Went AWOL (perhaps not for the first time in a fortnight?). MIA.

I've said it before but I don't believe Hartley is fit. I especially think he will struggle in a three man midfield that might be swamped with 4 or 5 opponents.

I'd love to see Hartley in a 4 man diamond type midfield with Elliot at the base of the diamond, Skuse and Hartley in the middle and Sno at the point. If need be the diamond can flatten to provide a traditional 4-4-2. As a 3 man midfield I think Hartley will struggle for 90 minutes.

On top of this I don't think that Sno is fit. I've seen all but one of his games at AG this year and I haven't seen him sprint once. I suspect he has hamstring/achilles type problems.