East End Racist Chants - Wtf?

[Martyn Hocking]

Surprised to see Dave Lloyd highlighting in his new blog that there was racist chanting in the East End on Saturday directed at Leicester fans. I haven't seen it commented on here since the game, and wasn't at AG on Saturday, so have no idea what was being sung/chanted or how obvious it was to people in the rest of the ground.

However, the fact that Dave could clearly hear it (and I assume he is somewhere around the halfway line during the game) suggests it was not the action of one or two people but was something involving a significant number of people.

Can anyone who was at the game provide some details on this - I would have thought we had left this sort of garbage behind us in the 70s?

I am only guessing here but was the chanting something moronic about Leicester having a large asian population?

[Riaz]

Chants of small town in asia etc - nothing racist.

[slartibartfast]

Chants of small town in asia etc - nothing racist.

No different to..small town in Wales!

[CotswoldRed]

References to a smorgasboard of curry items.

In all honesty the songs were more observational humour than anti-asian etc. Maybe the passport song could be construed as slightly anti-immigration.

No anti Sheffield songs this weekend please. That would be racist against northerners.

[Martyn Hocking]

No different to..small town in Wales!

Really??

If you come from Cardiff/Swansea then somone chanting about you coming from Wales is factual.

If you were born and bred in Leicester and someone is singing about you being 'asian' that is not teh same thing at all IMO.

[slartibartfast]

"We love you Sheffield" it is, then!

[PhilC]

No different to..small town in Wales!

Exactly. I can see why this would be interpreted as racist, but it isn't at all.

Worse thing I've seen in DLs blog since the crying 12 year old boy because of a few swear words... poor show...

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Chants of small town in asia etc - nothing racist.

Disagree completely Riaz. You may not find them offensive but plenty of people can and do.

"Small town in Asia" is clearly aimed to mock the Asian population of Leicester.

Chants of "Eng-er-land, Eng-er-land" are clearly implying that Asian people aren't English and that somehow being white makes you more English than Asian people.

According to Leicester forums there were also chants of "where's your popadom" - which goes without saying.

I know not everyone gets offended by it but plenty of people do. A lot of Asian fans of both clubs could have heard that and felt unwelcome. Those chants were aimed to mock/insult otherwise they wouldn't have been sung and I know enough people who would have been pretty upset to hear them had they been there. Are we really trying to make people feel unwelcome here!?! I hope not.

Finally, to those of us like myself who love to wave the England flag - it's THOSE chants of "Eng-er-land" that make it difficult for us to wave the flag or celebrate St George's day. Don't go blaming "the PC brigade" for it - it's precisely those people who link the flag and the word "England" to being white and exclusive of Asian (or black) who are to blame.

So if you want to chant "Eng-er-land" at Leicester fans to imply white people are English and then turn round in upset at the fact that people fear the chant or the flag then you only have yourself to blame.

[slartibartfast]

Really??

If you come from Cardiff/Swansea then somone chanting about you coming from Wales is factual.

If you were born and bred in Leicester and someone is singing about you being 'asian' that is not teh same thing at all IMO.

Yep, that's your opinion.

[NickJ]

From the Dolman I didnt hear any racist singing.

Leicester fans sang "Small Town in Wales" but does any City fan feel offended by that?

Bit like if City had sang "Small Town in Asia", I doubt very much if any Leicester fan would consider it racist, just geographically challenged.

[CotswoldRed]

"Small town in Asia" is clearly aimed to mock the Asian population of Leicester.

I don't agree. I think its purely saying you've got a significant number of immigrants in your town. More than we have, so we'll wind you up about it.

It mocks the white majority.

Slightly distasteful perhaps.

Careful all - I'll give this thread 10 mins before its locked.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

No different to..small town in Wales!

YES IT IS!

Welsh people don't have marches in their home cities by violent groups of the EDL. Welsh people don't have the level of race (in a serious context) thrown at them to anywhere near the level that Asian people can do. I can't imagine many Welsh people find football ground intimidating to come to due to their nationality.

Small Town in Wales doesn't (seriously) imply that City fans aren't English where as some of those chants did.

Please take 2 minutes to consider yourself an Asian fan sat in either end on Saturday and hearing those chants. Would that make you feel comfortable? Would it make you feel welcome and part of the other 14,000ish people? Would you feel it fair for it to be implied that you aren't English? Sure some people may laugh it off but if you get stick during the week for being Asian and are then subjected to that while just trying to watch your team play football then I can see why some would get offended by it.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

I don't agree. I think its purely saying you've got a significant number of immigrants in your town. More than we have, so we'll wind you up about it.

Exactly - winding people up about such a sensitive subject is wrong. And clearly it doesn't mock the white majority, it's aimed at Leicester fans and football chants are very rarely self-depricating. They're mostly about getting one over on the other fans.

"Small town in Asia" is used to suggest we're somehow better than a town with Asian immigrants.

Personally, I'd rather go to football to spend time with my mates and watch the football - not discuss immigration.

[Barrs Court Red]

Wahoo, tha annual "racist chanting" thread.

[Ecko]

I wondered how long this type of thread would take to crop up .

[CotswoldRed]

"Small town in Asia" is used to suggest we're somehow better than a town with Asian immigrants.

Possibly. Or we're just different. Difference is fundamental to many football chants.

Would you suggest its ok to mock the Sheffield fans this weekend with northerner jibes? I'm genuinely interested. Personally I can't see the difference between mocking regional or national difference.

[Riaz]

Disagree completely Riaz. You may not find them offensive but plenty of people can and do.

"Small town in Asia" is clearly aimed to mock the Asian population of Leicester.

Chants of "Eng-er-land, Eng-er-land" are clearly implying that Asian people aren't English and that somehow being white makes you more English than Asian people.

According to Leicester forums there were also chants of "where's your popadom" - which goes without saying.

I know not everyone gets offended by it but plenty of people do. A lot of Asian fans of both clubs could have heard that and felt unwelcome. Those chants were aimed to mock/insult otherwise they wouldn't have been sung and I know enough people who would have been pretty upset to hear them had they been there. Are we really trying to make people feel unwelcome here!?! I hope not.

Finally, to those of us like myself who love to wave the England flag - it's THOSE chants of "Eng-er-land" that make it difficult for us to wave the flag or celebrate St George's day. Don't go blaming "the PC brigade" for it - it's precisely those people who link the flag and the word "England" to being white and exclusive of Asian (or black) who are to blame.

So if you want to chant "Eng-er-land" at Leicester fans to imply white people are English and then turn round in upset at the fact that people fear the chant or the flag then you only have yourself to blame.

I am asian - and I was'nt remotely offended.

The "England" chant does not refer to colour - We we're saying that leicester is like another country, hence the england chant.

People who get offended by saturday's chant WANT to be offended.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

No anti Sheffield songs this weekend please. That would be racist against northerners.

Yes because Northerners have the EDL marching on their doorsteps and the BNP demanding that all Northerners from the south get deported north of Nottingham don't they? Completely the same thing. I see no difference at all.

Answer me - would you be happy for City fans to throw bananas next time we play Palace? Or chant "small town in Africa" to their fans? or perhaps "Eng-er-land" at them in reference to black populations not REALLY being English. Light banter after all isn't it? Hey, south London has a lot of black people and Asians - so why not go for both? I mean race is really a topic I'd love to be covered in the delicate nature that is thousands of football fans chanting.

[NickJ]

I am asian - and I was'nt remotely offended.

People who get offended by saturday's chant WANT to be offended.

That is likely to be the most reasonable and sensible comment in this entire thread.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Possibly. Or we're just different. Difference is fundamental to many football chants.

Would you suggest its ok to mock the Sheffield fans this weekend with northerner jibes? I'm genuinely interested. Personally I can't see the difference between mocking regional or national difference.

CotswoldRed - life isn't that simple and there aren't always clear lines. This is a subtle line and in context yes I think it is very different because chants of "Eng-er-land" questions the patriotism and nationality of our own people simply because their family once came from Asia and because they look different. See my post re: Palace game.

[slartibartfast]

YES IT IS!

Welsh people don't have marches in their home cities by violent groups of the EDL. Welsh people don't have the level of race (in a serious context) thrown at them to anywhere near the level that Asian people can do. I can't imagine many Welsh people find football ground intimidating to come to due to their nationality.

Small Town in Wales doesn't (seriously) imply that City fans aren't English where as some of those chants did.

Please take 2 minutes to consider yourself an Asian fan sat in either end on Saturday and hearing those chants. Would that make you feel comfortable? Would it make you feel welcome and part of the other 14,000ish people? Would you feel it fair for it to be implied that you aren't English? Sure some people may laugh it off but if you get stick during the week for being Asian and are then subjected to that while just trying to watch your team play football then I can see why some would get offended by it.

Please don't give me a lecture on racism, I was a card carrying member of the Labour party (for my sins) with all that that implies. I'm just saying that the chant is nothing like as bad as say, "you **** basrsteward".

Are you suggesting there is something wrong with being (apert from an appauling lack of geographical knowledge) a small town in Asia (or Wales, for that matter)?.

[CotswoldRed]

Yes because Northerners have the EDL marching on their doorsteps and the BNP demanding that all Northerners from the south get deported north of Nottingham don't they? Completely the same thing. I see no difference at all.

Answer me - would you be happy for City fans to throw bananas next time we play Palace? Or chant "small town in Africa" to their fans? or perhaps "Eng-er-land" at them in reference to black populations not REALLY being English. Light banter after all isn't it? Hey, south London has a lot of black people and Asians - so why not go for both? I mean race is really a topic I'd love to be covered in the delicate nature that is thousands of football fans chanting.

Your bananas reference isn't really fair/comparable. There are pure racist connotations with that, obviously.

Small town in Africa would be no different, though would be a mouthful to fit in the song.

If you think mocking northern fans for being northern is wrong then you've picked the wrong sport to follow imho.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

I am asian - and I was'nt remotely offended.

The "England" chant does not refer to colour - We we're saying that leicester is like another country, hence the england chant.

People who get offended by saturday's chant WANT to be offended.

Riaz, why should the people of Leicester be made to feel (possibly embarrassed) by the fact that their town has a lot of Asians in it. It's implied if not explicit.

I know from previous threads you wouldn't get offended by it but plenty of people could. I know one mate who read a similar thread on here ages back and said he'd have walked out at that point had he been at the game.

[Riaz]

Riaz, why should the people of Leicester be made to feel (possibly embarrassed) by the fact that their town has a lot of Asians in it. It's implied if not explicit

Ah now you see YOU are the racist. Why do you think that its embarassing that there are lots of asians in Leicester????????????????

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Your bananas reference isn't really fair/comparable. There are pure racist connotations with that, obviously.

Small town in Africa would be no different, though would be a mouthful to fit in the song.

If you think mocking northern fans for being northern is wrong then you've picked the wrong sport to follow imho.

I'm saying the northern chants are different because they're not so sensitive.

I'm not saying all the fans who joined the chants on Saturday are racist or thought they were. I'm saying that they can be construed that way and people should be aware of that fact. It's nothing to do with football so leave it at home, please.

[Portland Bill]

But surely chants that we used to get like "your gonna get your Fxxxxxn head kicked in" are far worse than "small town in Asia"?

[slartibartfast]

Over sensitve crud.

So where do you draw the line?

When people chant 'you fat bastard' are suggesting this is out of order because all the fans in the ground that are over weight are deeply offended? Get real.

Maybe we should all link hands and sing a ring a ring of roses then we'll know for sure no one is offended.

Hay fever sufferers? :0)

[CotswoldRed]

I'm saying the northern chants are different because they're not so sensitive.

I'm not saying all the fans who joined the chants on Saturday are racist or thought they were. I'm saying that they can be construed that way and people should be aware of that fact. It's nothing to do with football so leave it at home, please.

This is very interesting.

I watched Frankie Boyle on Channel4 last night. He mocked people from Norwich, suggesting they had webbed feet.

Who decides that is more acceptable than anything we heard on Saturday at AG?

Surely if the powers that be say this can be broadcast on TV, then we can mock Norwich fans when they return to AG with the same suggestion?

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Ah now you see YOU are the racist. Why do you think that its embarassing that there are lots of asians in Leicester????????????????

Riaz, you know I'm not being racist so why throw that in there?

I don't think anyone from Leicester should be embarrassed. I couldn't give a crap about the colour, descent or gender of the population of Leicester. I'm saying it's nothing to do with the game, it can be sensitive and should be left away from the ground.

Those songs, like most at football grounds, are aimed to get one over on the other fans. It's hardly alluding to it being a great thing or praising the city for it's multiculturalism is it?

[Pederho ll]

Here we go, time for everybody to get on their moral high horse.....

This club is a total joke.....how the club continues to turn on it's own fan base, even after turning in a loss of £12m and asking 24hours a day for support towards the stadium etc etc, is just beyond me.

However, if the club firmly believe that was racist chanting, which this David chap clearly thinks it is, the club should use all if the CCTV footage, of which there is plenty given all the cameras, and arrest each and every individual on Saturday.

If the club are not prepared to take such action then people closely associated with the club who are writing in the public domain should in my opinion be told to refrain from making such comments......either raise it as a serious issue and do something about it, or simple don't mention it.

[CotswoldRed]

However, if the club firmly believe that was racist chanting, which this David chap clearly thinks it is, the club should use all if the CCTV footage, of which there is plenty given all the cameras, and arrest each and every individual on Saturday.

I have to agree with you on this.

Surely you have to say nothing or act on it. Is there really anything in between?

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

This is very interesting.

I watched Frankie Boyle on Channel4 last night. He mocked people from Norwich, suggesting they had webbed feet.

Who decides that is more acceptable than anything we heard on Saturday at AG?

Are you aware of many people from Norwich who have their nationality questioned due to them not being properly English? Did Frankie Boyle follow up with "Eng-er-land, Eng-er-land" because most people in England don't have webbed feet? Aware of any violent clashes between the webbed feet people of Norwich and the normal people of England who have turned up in buses into their towns waving England flags?

Who decides that chanting about Asian populations is ok but the bananas reference isn't? Fine lines isn't it.

[Slave to the rhythm]

YES IT IS!

Welsh people don't have marches in their home cities by violent groups of the EDL.

Be careful mate. There are quite a lot of EDL sympathisers on here and they'll be quick to shower you with abuse.

For the record, I am not one of them.

[CotswoldRed]

Are you aware of many people from Norwich who have their nationality questioned due to them not being properly English? Did Frankie Boyle follow up with "Eng-er-land, Eng-er-land" because most people in England don't have webbed feet? Aware of any violent clashes between the webbed feet people of Norwich and the normal people of England who have turned up in buses into their towns waving England flags?

Who decides that chanting about Asian populations is ok but the bananas reference isn't? Fine lines isn't it.

You didn't answer the question.

My question had nothing to do with the national 'integrity' of the Norwich people.

What I am saying is Norwich people may be offended by being mocked on TV, yet this is deemed acceptable.

I don't think its fine lines at all. It seems mocking Western European countries is fine. Anyone else we will upset (or we think they will be). Regional mocking is fine too.

[Riaz]

Riaz, you know I'm not being racist so why throw that in there?

I don't think anyone from Leicester should be embarrassed. I couldn't give a crap about the colour, descent or gender of the population of Leicester. I'm saying it's nothing to do with the game, it can be sensitive and should be left away from the ground.

Those songs, like most at football grounds, are aimed to get one over on the other fans. It's hardly alluding to it being a great thing or praising the city for it's multiculturalism is it?

I was playing devils advocate. Its only sensitive to people who are sensitive to it.

You see this is a nothing issue. Racism to me is where a person feels intimidated, physically under threat or someone who suffers actual violence.

Pretty sure none of the asian leicester fans would have felt any of those, do yo?

['Orns]

I really don't see the issue here, PC gone mad! I would imagine Leicester have that thrown at them at every game, like we do with the Welsh tag - get over it ffs!

Is it more offensive than the bonfire song? I heard far worse things when I started going down the Gate (mid to late 80's), racism was rife, and Leicester would have had far worse sung at them during those dark days, I'm sure. If it was a massive deal then no doubt Leicester fans would have been on here having a pop at us about it, I think their silence says a lot

Slowly, but surely, the fun is going out of football, one of the reasons I don't go that often anymore. Christ, fart at half time and you'll be thrown out before long.

[NickJ]

You see this is a nothing issue. Racism to me is where a person feels intimidated, physically under threat or someone who suffers actual violence.

Pretty sure none of the asian leicester fans would have felt any of those, do yo?

Good reply again.

A similarity exists within the test which schools adopt to determine whether bullying is taking place - if the individual's perception is that he has been bullied, then no matter what anyone else thinks, he/she has been bullied.

Back to Asian Leicester fans, because its what they think that matters, not us:

Have Leicester complained to City?

Have any Leicester fans been on here complaining?

Is there any mention on their forums of racist behaviour?

No, no and no I believe.

So there doesn't seem to be much evidence of racism.

[dezgimed]

Scrumpy on here is Asian (real name is Sibguj) and he wasn't offended at all.

[Riaz]

Scrumpy on here is Asian (real name is Sibguj) and he wasn't offended at all.

hang on! I thought I was the only asian in the village?? gutted!

[Guest Pemburthy]

Really??

If you come from Cardiff/Swansea then somone chanting about you coming from Wales is factual.

If you were born and bred in Leicester and someone is singing about you being 'asian' that is not teh same thing at all IMO.

Rubbish! my son was born in Wales - dare you to look him in the face and call him Welsh!!

[Abraham Romanovich]

Good reply again.

A similarity exists within the test which schools adopt to determine whether bullying is taking place - if the individual's perception is that he has been bullied, then no matter what anyone else thinks, he/she has been bullied.

Back to Asian Leicester fans, because its what they think that matters, not us:

Have Leicester complained to City?

Have any Leicester fans been on here complaining?

Is there any mention on their forums of racist behaviour?

No, no and no I believe.

So there doesn't seem to be much evidence of racism.

Taken from the Foxes forum http://www.foxestalk...ic=69335&st=180 POST 191

"Can't believe how racist the Bristol fans were being yesterday to be honest.

Chants along the lines of:

'**** off back home, **** off back home, Leicester smells of curry, **** off back home'

and

'Where is your poppadom?'"

[054123]

Exactly - winding people up about such a sensitive subject is wrong.

I would suggest you're following the wrong sport then.

To me, chants at football are exactley about this. Alright, i agree there is line that shouldn't be crossed, but the east end came no where near it.

I thought the 'Naan Bread' chant was hilarious as it was so stupid and pointless! Me and mates were still laughing about it on the way home. What exactley about Naan Bread? Do we want some, do they have some, do you make it? Who knows, just a chant of Naan Bread. I was chating to a Leicester fan outside and he thought it was very funny. He took it in the ridiculus manner it was meant in.

The small town in Asia thing was a response to the small town in Wales bit. I thought at the time, 'uh oh, the holier than thou brigade will be all over this'. It happened once in response to them, wasn't even that loud and people in the main know it's a bit ridiculous.

I would not consider anything that was sung on Saturday to be racist in anyway what so ever. A needless and over the top observation by Dave.

(Ummmm shall i add my best friend is black just to quantify that i'm not a racist?)

[Redcliffe 78]

Any complaints from Leicester fans officialy?, i bet they get it every week the same for Bradford, Oldham ETC, Middlesboro fans we sing shit town in Scotland i can go on and on its not racist in one bit. Its banter between fans. Over reaction imo Dave.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

You didn't answer the question.

My question had nothing to do with the national 'integrity' of the Norwich people.

What I am saying is Norwich people may be offended by being mocked on TV, yet this is deemed acceptable.

I don't think its fine lines at all. It seems mocking Western European countries is fine. Anyone else we will upset (or we think they will be). Regional mocking is fine too.

Mocking people in general isn't necessarily a bad thing. But on a sensitive issue, in such a clumsy way to a mass of people you don't know is.

[054123]

Taken from the Foxes forum http://www.foxestalk...ic=69335&st=180 POST 191

"Can't believe how racist the Bristol fans were being yesterday to be honest.

Chants along the lines of:

'**** off back home, **** off back home, Leicester smells of curry, **** off back home'

and

'Where is your poppadom?'"

Don't remember any of the F off back home stuff, apart from the obligatory 'F off back to Leicestershire'. This is however sung to everyone.

And if your being factually correct, it was 'Can we have a poppadom?' A back handed compliment based on our love of Asian snacks.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

I really don't see the issue here, PC gone mad! I would imagine Leicester have that thrown at them at every game, like we do with the Welsh tag - get over it ffs!

Is it more offensive than the bonfire song? I heard far worse things when I started going down the Gate (mid to late 80's), racism was rife, and Leicester would have had far worse sung at them during those dark days, I'm sure. If it was a massive deal then no doubt Leicester fans would have been on here having a pop at us about it, I think their silence says a lot

Slowly, but surely, the fun is going out of football, one of the reasons I don't go that often anymore. Christ, fart at half time and you'll be thrown out before long.

Yeah, the fun is going out of football. I long for those days when I could sing what I want about who I wanted with no come back on me at all. I hate change. Singing clumsy songs about the race of people in another city is the only reason I go to football. Passing comment on Asian communities is the same as letting out a little parp.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

I was playing devils advocate. Its only sensitive to people who are sensitive to it.

You see this is a nothing issue. Racism to me is where a person feels intimidated, physically under threat or someone who suffers actual violence.

Pretty sure none of the asian leicester fans would have felt any of those, do yo?

Riaz, I couldn't answer that. There are a couple of thousand of them.

If there was a Dad and kids in either stand who felt people were making comment on their race and felt uncomfortable because of it would you feel that's ok?

How about you walked into a house party with people you didn't know and the first person said "hello. Where's your popadom?" followed by another comments suggesting you weren't English - would you sit down at that party and think to yourself 'what a welcoming bunch. I feel well at home here'?

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Any complaints from Leicester fans officialy?, i bet they get it every week the same for Bradford, Oldham ETC, Middlesboro fans we sing shit town in Scotland i can go on and on its not racist in one bit. Its banter between fans. Over reaction imo Dave.

With Boro you're making reference to the town being close to a border, not the ethnic make up of the city. It's subtle but it is different.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Good reply again.

A similarity exists within the test which schools adopt to determine whether bullying is taking place - if the individual's perception is that he has been bullied, then no matter what anyone else thinks, he/she has been bullied.

Back to Asian Leicester fans, because its what they think that matters, not us:

Have Leicester complained to City?

Have any Leicester fans been on here complaining?

Is there any mention on their forums of racist behaviour?

No, no and no I believe.

So there doesn't seem to be much evidence of racism.

Yes

[NickJ]

Taken from the Foxes forum http://www.foxestalk...ic=69335&st=180 POST 191

"Can't believe how racist the Bristol fans were being yesterday to be honest.

Chants along the lines of:

'**** off back home, **** off back home, Leicester smells of curry, **** off back home'

and

'Where is your poppadom?'"

One post out of almost 200, although you are correct.

Nevertheless is it racist? Only if the guy that wrote it is Asian, and there is no indication either way - in all probability, not.

[Redcliffe 78]

Don't remember any of the F off back home stuff, apart from the obligatory 'F off back to Leicestershire'. This is however sung to everyone.

And if your being factually correct, it was 'Can we have a poppadom?' A back handed compliment based on our love of Asian snacks.

ll

mmm, poppadoms, making i feel proper hungry, next time im at a an away game in the Midlands/London and get called a farmer i will write to Dave and ask him to highlight this because its racist in my book, what a laugh.

[gamon]

Can people not see the real issue here?

The club are simply highlighting a supposed "problem / issue" for which they will implement / keep in place "controls" that they hope will resolve the situation.

This is how politicians get laws passed....

[Redcliffe 78]

Don't remember any of the F off back home stuff, apart from the obligatory 'F off back to Leicestershire'. This is however sung to everyone.

And if your being factually correct, it was 'Can we have a poppadom?' A back handed compliment based on our love of Asian snacks.

mmm, poppadoms, making i feel proper hungry, next time im at a an away game in the Midlands/London and get called a farmer i will write to Dave and ask him to highlight this because its racist in my book, what a laugh. (Sorry double post laptop playing up)

[NickJ]

Yes

OK I didn't word the bit you have bolded very well.

To be precise, have any Asians on their forum complained about racist behaviour?

Answer No, therefore no evidence of racist behaviour.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Good reply again.

A similarity exists within the test which schools adopt to determine whether bullying is taking place - if the individual's perception is that he has been bullied, then no matter what anyone else thinks, he/she has been bullied.

No, no and no I believe.

So there doesn't seem to be much evidence of racism.

So would you always wait for someone to complain before you stood up for them?

If you were at a bus stop and someone was making numerous comments to a stranger about their size/weight/appearance and the victim was just sat there trying to ignore it (but possibly feeling very nervous and/or upset in side) would you just stand there? It needs someone to stand forward and say "look mate, you may not realise you're doing it but you're coming across as pretty offensive right now" and that's all Dave Lloyd has done. Good on him for it.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

OK I didn't word the bit you have bolded very well.

To be precise, have any Asians on their forum complained about racist behaviour?

Answer No, therefore no evidence of racist behaviour.

Nick, what do you mean you didn't word it? I clicked "reply with quote" and highlighted it.

Don't know who made the comments but there may have been many others who felt the same.

[NickJ]

Can people not see the real issue here?

The club are simply highlighting a supposed "problem / issue" for which they will implement / keep in place "controls" that they hope will resolve the situation.

This is how politicians get laws passed....

Very perceptive mate.

"East End hoolies tarnish the reputation of Bristol City again, membership only for those ******s, the middle class bourgeoise WILL take over".

[Riaz]

If there was a Dad and kids in either stand who felt people were making comment on their race and felt uncomfortable because of it would you feel that's ok?

We are all different - making reference to our differences isnt always negative. That is how I teach my kids

How about you walked into a house party with people you didn't know and the first person said "hello. Where's your popadom?" followed by another comments suggesting you weren't English - would you sit down at that party and think to yourself 'what a welcoming bunch. I feel well at home here'?

A totally different scenario to two large sets of supporters chanting at a football match - so a completely irrelevant question

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Very perceptive mate.

"East End hoolies tarnish the reputation of Bristol City again, membership only for those ******s, the middle class bourgeoise WILL take over".

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

Why would we change anything ever. I like it when only white working class men felt comfortable at aggressive, testosterone football games. All this nonsense these days: families, kids, middle class. How it ruins my world.

Nothing to do with the topic so move on.

As I said before: next time you're banned for waving and English flag (which you're not) blame those who sang that song not the PC brigade.

[NickJ]

So would you always wait for someone to complain before you stood up for them?

If you were at a bus stop and someone was making numerous comments to a stranger about their size/weight/appearance and the victim was just sat there trying to ignore it (but possibly feeling very nervous and/or upset in side) would you just stand there? It needs someone to stand forward and say "look mate, you may not realise you're doing it but you're coming across as pretty offensive right now" and that's all Dave Lloyd has done. Good on him for it.

If you are asking me personally, from past actions I can say no, I wouldnt allow somebody to be bullied without stepping in.

But you are asking the wrong question....

.....I have surmised that no Asian Leicester fan has considered themselves to a victim of racism, the evidence suggests that is a correct assumption, therefore there is no need to intervene.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

We are all different - making reference to our differences isnt always negative. That is how I teach my kids

Being different isn't always negative. I agree. But the context it's put in can be if you're not careful and chanting across a terrace is not careful.

During the 30s Jews in Germany were made to wear the Star of St David - clearly, at times, highlighting differences can be done in negative ways.

A totally different scenario to two large sets of supporters chanting at a football match - so a completely irrelevant question

Why is it different?

Does that mean many things I can't do face to face I can get away with my saying it to a large group of people with a lot of police/stewards between me?

[Redcliffe 78]

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

Why would we change anything ever. I like it when only white working class men felt comfortable at aggressive, testosterone football games. All this nonsense these days: families, kids, middle class. How it ruins my world.

Nothing to do with the topic so move on.

As I said before: next time you're banned for waving and English flag (which you're not) blame those who sang that song not the PC brigade.

You having fun here Sylvester you smoking.

[simon uk]

I clearly remember in the old days people doing monkey chants etc etc, but this is just football banter. People pick up any differences/ regional stereotypes and make up songs about it, sometimes its quite funny (small town in wales), other times it isnt (people from norwich have webbed feet), but if you are one of the labour party civil service equalities people you are more likely to take great offence to it.

I remember last time we played everton in the cup there was stuff being sung about car radios and hubcaps, and signing on, but its just a regional stereotype, no one feels upset about it, we get the ambrosia song if the opposition lot are fantastically witty, big deal.

Thank god that labour were kicked out, or we would have had christmas banned next in case it offended any minorities, a la cromwell.

[NickJ]

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

You are wrong, so very wrong. By most definitions I am middle-class and overall wouldnt want to change that so why would I have a chip about it.

But that doesnt mean I wouldnt stand up for anyone that I consider to be victimized. In this case, as Gamon has perceptively highlighted, its ironically the "EastEnd hoolies".

In this instance it is apparent, from an objective defintion of racism, and from the evidence, that there was no racism.

[Redcliffe 78]

I clearly remember in the old days people doing monkey chants etc etc, but this is just football banter. People pick up any differences/ regional stereotypes and make up songs about it, sometimes its quite funny (small town in wales), other times it isnt (people from norwich have webbed feet), but if you are one of the labour party civil service equalities people you are more likely to take great offence to it.

I remember last time we played everton in the cup there was stuff being sung about car radios and hubcaps, and signing on, but its just a regional stereotype, no one feels upset about it, we get the ambrosia song if the opposition lot are fantastically witty, big deal.

Thank god that labour were kicked out, or we would have had christmas banned next in case it offended any minorities, a la cromwell.

Great point there is a big difference between direct racism and abit of banter, well put. Old Sylvest getting abit excited i thinks.

[054123]

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

Why would we change anything ever. I like it when only white working class men felt comfortable at aggressive, testosterone football games. All this nonsense these days: families, kids, middle class. How it ruins my world.

Nothing to do with the topic so move on.

As I said before: next time you're banned for waving and English flag (which you're not) blame those who sang that song not the PC brigade.

I'm struggling to see why you're labouring the point mate. I appreciate you took exception to some of the chants on Saturday, but i honestly feel you are looking for something that just wasn't there.

I personally can't abide racist behaviour and in my time following football i have had to listen to some ridiculous stuff, not chanting, but general conversation in pubs or on coaches etc. I tend to bite my tongue with the older lot as you aren't going to change them, and saying anything just makes you look like a dick. You can call me a coward and thats fine. The younger lot i genuinely do try to engage with and ask why they think like they do and say what they say. It always amazes me how much 'Immigrants' are to blame for things, but not the government we actually vote into power, crazy.

I respect your position, but truthfully you are needlessly trying to make out that City in some way acted in a racist way on Saturday and that wasn't the case. The topic may be subjective, but i did not feel embarrassed by anything that occurred on Saturday.

['Orns]

Yeah, the fun is going out of football. I long for those days when I could sing what I want about who I wanted with no come back on me at all. I hate change. Singing clumsy songs about the race of people in another city is the only reason I go to football. Passing comment on Asian communities is the same as letting out a little parp.

Just to clarify some things here:

1 - I wasn't suggesting for one minute that I miss the days of racist chants, if that came over the wrong way then I apologise

2 - you really need to tuck your blouse in

[054123]

Does that mean many things I can't do face to face I can get away with my saying it to a large group of people with a lot of police/stewards between me?

Essentially yes.

The football terrace is a completely different animal. I was quite happy to sing 'Jack Charlton's a traitor' to Leeds fans, is this offensive to Jack? Should i stop singing it know? No, you accept it 's part of football and both sets of supporters accept it.

[dezgimed]

hang on! I thought I was the only asian in the village?? gutted!

I thought you iz Black?

[Riaz]

I thought you iz Black?

same fing innit?