East End Racist Chants - Wtf?

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Good reply again.

A similarity exists within the test which schools adopt to determine whether bullying is taking place - if the individual's perception is that he has been bullied, then no matter what anyone else thinks, he/she has been bullied.

No, no and no I believe.

So there doesn't seem to be much evidence of racism.

So would you always wait for someone to complain before you stood up for them?

If you were at a bus stop and someone was making numerous comments to a stranger about their size/weight/appearance and the victim was just sat there trying to ignore it (but possibly feeling very nervous and/or upset in side) would you just stand there? It needs someone to stand forward and say "look mate, you may not realise you're doing it but you're coming across as pretty offensive right now" and that's all Dave Lloyd has done. Good on him for it.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

OK I didn't word the bit you have bolded very well.

To be precise, have any Asians on their forum complained about racist behaviour?

Answer No, therefore no evidence of racist behaviour.

Nick, what do you mean you didn't word it? I clicked "reply with quote" and highlighted it.

Don't know who made the comments but there may have been many others who felt the same.

[NickJ]

Can people not see the real issue here?

The club are simply highlighting a supposed "problem / issue" for which they will implement / keep in place "controls" that they hope will resolve the situation.

This is how politicians get laws passed....

Very perceptive mate.

"East End hoolies tarnish the reputation of Bristol City again, membership only for those ******s, the middle class bourgeoise WILL take over".

[Riaz]

If there was a Dad and kids in either stand who felt people were making comment on their race and felt uncomfortable because of it would you feel that's ok?

We are all different - making reference to our differences isnt always negative. That is how I teach my kids

How about you walked into a house party with people you didn't know and the first person said "hello. Where's your popadom?" followed by another comments suggesting you weren't English - would you sit down at that party and think to yourself 'what a welcoming bunch. I feel well at home here'?

A totally different scenario to two large sets of supporters chanting at a football match - so a completely irrelevant question

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Very perceptive mate.

"East End hoolies tarnish the reputation of Bristol City again, membership only for those ******s, the middle class bourgeoise WILL take over".

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

Why would we change anything ever. I like it when only white working class men felt comfortable at aggressive, testosterone football games. All this nonsense these days: families, kids, middle class. How it ruins my world.

Nothing to do with the topic so move on.

As I said before: next time you're banned for waving and English flag (which you're not) blame those who sang that song not the PC brigade.

[NickJ]

So would you always wait for someone to complain before you stood up for them?

If you were at a bus stop and someone was making numerous comments to a stranger about their size/weight/appearance and the victim was just sat there trying to ignore it (but possibly feeling very nervous and/or upset in side) would you just stand there? It needs someone to stand forward and say "look mate, you may not realise you're doing it but you're coming across as pretty offensive right now" and that's all Dave Lloyd has done. Good on him for it.

If you are asking me personally, from past actions I can say no, I wouldnt allow somebody to be bullied without stepping in.

But you are asking the wrong question....

.....I have surmised that no Asian Leicester fan has considered themselves to a victim of racism, the evidence suggests that is a correct assumption, therefore there is no need to intervene.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

We are all different - making reference to our differences isnt always negative. That is how I teach my kids

Being different isn't always negative. I agree. But the context it's put in can be if you're not careful and chanting across a terrace is not careful.

During the 30s Jews in Germany were made to wear the Star of St David - clearly, at times, highlighting differences can be done in negative ways.

A totally different scenario to two large sets of supporters chanting at a football match - so a completely irrelevant question

Why is it different?

Does that mean many things I can't do face to face I can get away with my saying it to a large group of people with a lot of police/stewards between me?

[Redcliffe 78]

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

Why would we change anything ever. I like it when only white working class men felt comfortable at aggressive, testosterone football games. All this nonsense these days: families, kids, middle class. How it ruins my world.

Nothing to do with the topic so move on.

As I said before: next time you're banned for waving and English flag (which you're not) blame those who sang that song not the PC brigade.

You having fun here Sylvester you smoking.

[simon uk]

I clearly remember in the old days people doing monkey chants etc etc, but this is just football banter. People pick up any differences/ regional stereotypes and make up songs about it, sometimes its quite funny (small town in wales), other times it isnt (people from norwich have webbed feet), but if you are one of the labour party civil service equalities people you are more likely to take great offence to it.

I remember last time we played everton in the cup there was stuff being sung about car radios and hubcaps, and signing on, but its just a regional stereotype, no one feels upset about it, we get the ambrosia song if the opposition lot are fantastically witty, big deal.

Thank god that labour were kicked out, or we would have had christmas banned next in case it offended any minorities, a la cromwell.

[NickJ]

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

You are wrong, so very wrong. By most definitions I am middle-class and overall wouldnt want to change that so why would I have a chip about it.

But that doesnt mean I wouldnt stand up for anyone that I consider to be victimized. In this case, as Gamon has perceptively highlighted, its ironically the "EastEnd hoolies".

In this instance it is apparent, from an objective defintion of racism, and from the evidence, that there was no racism.

[Redcliffe 78]

I clearly remember in the old days people doing monkey chants etc etc, but this is just football banter. People pick up any differences/ regional stereotypes and make up songs about it, sometimes its quite funny (small town in wales), other times it isnt (people from norwich have webbed feet), but if you are one of the labour party civil service equalities people you are more likely to take great offence to it.

I remember last time we played everton in the cup there was stuff being sung about car radios and hubcaps, and signing on, but its just a regional stereotype, no one feels upset about it, we get the ambrosia song if the opposition lot are fantastically witty, big deal.

Thank god that labour were kicked out, or we would have had christmas banned next in case it offended any minorities, a la cromwell.

Great point there is a big difference between direct racism and abit of banter, well put. Old Sylvest getting abit excited i thinks.

[054123]

Congrats for exposing the real reason why you think it's ok. Because you're sounding like someone with a massive chip on their shoulder about the middle class.

This is MY club, MY chant, MY life no-one can change it. Paranoid.

Why would we change anything ever. I like it when only white working class men felt comfortable at aggressive, testosterone football games. All this nonsense these days: families, kids, middle class. How it ruins my world.

Nothing to do with the topic so move on.

As I said before: next time you're banned for waving and English flag (which you're not) blame those who sang that song not the PC brigade.

I'm struggling to see why you're labouring the point mate. I appreciate you took exception to some of the chants on Saturday, but i honestly feel you are looking for something that just wasn't there.

I personally can't abide racist behaviour and in my time following football i have had to listen to some ridiculous stuff, not chanting, but general conversation in pubs or on coaches etc. I tend to bite my tongue with the older lot as you aren't going to change them, and saying anything just makes you look like a dick. You can call me a coward and thats fine. The younger lot i genuinely do try to engage with and ask why they think like they do and say what they say. It always amazes me how much 'Immigrants' are to blame for things, but not the government we actually vote into power, crazy.

I respect your position, but truthfully you are needlessly trying to make out that City in some way acted in a racist way on Saturday and that wasn't the case. The topic may be subjective, but i did not feel embarrassed by anything that occurred on Saturday.

['Orns]

Yeah, the fun is going out of football. I long for those days when I could sing what I want about who I wanted with no come back on me at all. I hate change. Singing clumsy songs about the race of people in another city is the only reason I go to football. Passing comment on Asian communities is the same as letting out a little parp.

Just to clarify some things here:

1 - I wasn't suggesting for one minute that I miss the days of racist chants, if that came over the wrong way then I apologise

2 - you really need to tuck your blouse in

[054123]

Does that mean many things I can't do face to face I can get away with my saying it to a large group of people with a lot of police/stewards between me?

Essentially yes.

The football terrace is a completely different animal. I was quite happy to sing 'Jack Charlton's a traitor' to Leeds fans, is this offensive to Jack? Should i stop singing it know? No, you accept it 's part of football and both sets of supporters accept it.

[dezgimed]

hang on! I thought I was the only asian in the village?? gutted!

I thought you iz Black?

[Riaz]

I thought you iz Black?

same fing innit?

[Robbored]

The football terrace is a completely different animal you accept it 's part of football and both sets of supporters accept it.

Agree that both sets of fans accept the exchange of chants apparently regardless of how offensive they might be.

Doesn't make it right tho'.

Whether you agree or not 'where's your poppadum' and 'small town in Asia' is a racist chant. End of.

[054123]

Agree that both sets of fans accept the exchange of chants apparently regardless of how offensive they might be.

Doesn't make it right tho'.

Whether you agree or not 'where's your poppadum' and 'small town in Asia' is a racist chant. End of.

Right, again the chant was 'can we have a poppadom?'. How can that possibly be racist? I thought it was funny.

The small town in Asia chant, which i have eluded to in an earlier post, is something that doesn't sit right with me, regardless of whether they sang 'small town in Wales'. That said, it was sung once, by a minority of the usual singers and, as i say, was part of verbal 'small town' fisticuffs. I certainly wouldn't stand there and think 'god, i'm stood with a bunch of right wing loonies'.

[sodburyred]

I dont like being called Welsh or a Carrot Cruncher!!! Am i suffering racist abuse? Do I need to inform the police?

[Riaz]

Agree that both sets of fans accept the exchange of chants apparently regardless of how offensive they might be.

Doesn't make it right tho'.

Whether you agree or not 'where's your poppadum' and 'small town in Asia' is a racist chant. End of.

Tell me WHY that is offensive? whats wrong with a poppadom? whats wrong with being asain??

[Superjack]

From the Dolman I didnt hear any racist singing.

Leicester fans sang "Small Town in Wales" but does any City fan feel offended by that?

Bit like if City had sang "Small Town in Asia", I doubt very much if any Leicester fan would consider it racist, just geographically challenged.

Mountain out of a mole hill.

I am asian - and I was'nt remotely offended.

The "England" chant does not refer to colour - We we're saying that leicester is like another country, hence the england chant.

People who get offended by saturday's chant WANT to be offended.

What they said.

[Pederho ll]

I have to agree with you on this.

Surely you have to say nothing or act on it. Is there really anything in between?

Agreed, it's just a pointless comment to make unless the club are going to do anything about it......if indeed there is anything to do anything about! Man, I'm confused!

Is the blog in question the one that is released on the main website? If so, internally his text must have been approved / proof read etc, so as far as l am concerned the club agree with Dave's comments.

Interesting stuff.......

[054123]

Did no one else think the Naan Bread chant was ridiculous and hilarious at the same time?

I was actually a bit worried about genuine racist chanting, but all that was actually sung was some good natured banter.

[dezgimed]

Agree that both sets of fans accept the exchange of chants apparently regardless of how offensive they might be.

Doesn't make it right tho'.

Whether you agree or not 'where's your poppadum' and 'small town in Asia' is a racist chant. End of.

Does chanting a supposedly racist chant mean you are a racist though?

[Abraham Romanovich]

As an aside, there are two kinds of people I can't stand in this world. Those who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures. and the Welsh.

[Superjack]

As an aside, there are two kinds of people I can't stand in this world. Those who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures. and the Welsh.

Surely you forgot the French!

[Superjack]

Surely you forgot the French!

I'm not racist, mind!

[Robbored]

Tell me WHY that is offensive? whats wrong with a poppadom? whats wrong with being asain??

Thats already been explained very eloquently by AJSylvester. No need for me explain it again.

I know that you see it differently and thats fair enough.

I will say this - working in the NHS virtually all my working life the slightest hint of racism was severely dealt with. If I had asked one of the many Asian staff I worked with 'where's your poppadom?' in any tone I would have been in deep shite.

In a case conference once I described a patient of mine as 'the black sheep of the family'. I was immediately reprimanded by the case co-ordinator. He said such phrases were unacceptable. Over sensative maybe but but it made me very aware.

[dezgimed]

Well that is sad.

[BITW]

Claiming this is any different to the small town in Wales chant is laughable. This over sensitive country is in a sad state. It's an overused phrase but PC has gone mad.

Surely Riaz's voice is the most relevant in this particular argument being of Asian dissent, and he's made it quite clear it's not even remotely offensive.