East End Racist Chants - Wtf?

[Us_and_Them]

Race, Religion, Sex and Politics...all topics that will provoke heated debate, and never full agreement.

The race issue would clear up in this Country, if people intograted more. Instead of their being Black, Asian, Muslim, Jewish communities etc, it would be better if people tried to live together, instead of creating little countries ( communities ) within this one. You can go into some areas nowadays, where English isn't spoken and the people are trying to recreate, the Country where they came from. Eating their traditional food, their music, their clothing etc. If these Communities didn't exist, there wouldn't be a problem.

In the same way, when the 'English' set up little communities abroad. You can go to some parts of Spain and it might as well be little Britain. Learn the language and intograte...it's the least you can do.

It happens in every Country throughout the World. TBH, the more you travel, you will realise, that England, is one of the least racist countries in the World. You should try watching your football in Italy, Spain or any of the Eastern Bloc countries, to see and hear what real racism is.

Regarding the Leicester chants...it wasn't racism. Fans pick on something that that town is famous for. Leicester is renowned for having a large Asian population. In the same way Brighton has a large Gay community. In the same way we pick on Cardiff and Swansea for their love of Sheep. Scousers for nicking cars, Spurs Jewish connection, etc,etc,etc. We are tarred with the Brush of being tractor driving thick Wurzels, or for the uneducated Welsh. It's all water off a ducks back. As long as it's said with humour and not meant to intimidate...then it will always go on.

People should just get on, whatever colour, race or religion. And stop looking for problems. This Country has gone to the dogs, because of people looking to complain. Get on with it. Life's a bitch. Laugh at ourselves,and we will all get on.

Right or wrong...it's life. People will always pick on the stereotype of an area, and try to make fun. It's being going on for centuries. Go to Italy, and they still sing derogatory songs and chants, to one another; about what one City did to another from Medievil times.

We've all become so sensitive in this country. People are starving and dying and we're all worried about a few silly words and a few feelings. This country needs to Man the **** up, and stop being so namby pamby. He said this...she said that. It's just stupid foolish songs.

Good posts spudski and a bit of perspective!

[Donald]

So just to clarify, can we throw bananas at the palace fans? Is it restricted to people in the east end? And if sainsburys run out, can I throw a pineapple?

Personally i wish This was suggested while simon Jordan was here?

[CiderPunk]

Your avatar is racist. You have purposefully depicted Coppell as part black, and reference to him as a joke.

Fact.

Mustn't forget The Native Americans.

[spudski]

The songs/chants were racist - fact. There is nothing to judge.

How many songs or chants, sang at football grounds are Politically correct? Not many. Most are sang to intimidate the opposition or take the piss out of them. As an example...

'Stand up if you hate the Gas'...a good example of Hatred. Is Hatred politically correct? Hating a fan because they support another team?

Why haven't we got a four page thread on all these other songs? This Race card has got way out of hand.

[NickJ]

The songs/chants were racist - fact. There is nothing to judge.

Unless you can point us to a legal definition of racist I think you need to accept that whether the songs were racist is opinion - not fact.

By the way, some people, particularly Steve Coppell, would say your avatar is deeply offensive and bullying.

[Us_and_Them]

So just to clarify, can we throw bananas at the palace fans? Is it restricted to people in the east end? And if sainsburys run out, can I throw a pineapple?

Personally i wish This was suggested while simon Jordan was here?

Maybe that would break health and safety rules?

Perhaps we should bring back the inflatables? Quite popular in the day, remember the odd blow up dolly surfing across the EE!

[Frome Valley]

The songs/chants were racist - fact. There is nothing to judge.

I think naan bread is a type of bread not a race and just chanting naan bread could indicate you love naans.

[Mr Gow]

What a strange world we live in, we can sing about burning Twerton down, and hitting Rovers fans with a brick , but heck its a deadly sin to call a Pakistani a paki, errrm Australian Aussie, errrm Welshman Taff, Scotsman Jock. Irishman paddy, Franch man a frog, German a crout

What the hell is wrong with shortening the word Pakistani??????????????

[CiderPunk]

How many songs or chants, sang at football grounds are Politically correct? Not many. Most are sang to intimidate the opposition or take the piss out of them. As an example...

'Stand up if you hate the Gas'...a good example of Hatred. Is Hatred politically correct? Hating a fan because they support another team?

Why haven't we got a four page thread on all these other songs? This Race card has got way out of hand.

Once again you've hit the nail on the head spudski so fairplay to you. I'm more interested in creating an atmosphere for my team to spur them on and if that means taking the piss out of them, then that's what I'll do, them's the rules. Some chants I hear at football I won't take part in because I feel they overstep the mark, the ones sang to Leicester didn't imo. Any posters branding me a rascist for singing them should take a good look at themselves and try not to be so judgemental.

[CiderPunk]

What a strange world we live in, we can sing about burning Twerton down, and hitting Rovers fans with a brick , but heck its a deadly sin to call a Pakistani a paki, errrm Australian Aussie, errrm Welshman Taff, Scotsman Jock. Irishman paddy, Franch man a frog, German a crout

What the hell is wrong with shortening the word Pakistani??????????????

Quite an interesting paradox that one as paki actually means pure. Pakistan means; Pure Land, to Pakistanis.

And you forgot about gingers, surely them lot ought to get some?

[Jordan Tansley]

Right or wrong...it's life. People will always pick on the stereotype of an area, and try to make fun. It's being going on for centuries. Go to Italy, and they still sing derogatory songs and chants, to one another; about what one City did to another from Medievil times.

We've all become so sensitive in this country. People are starving and dying and we're all worried about a few silly words and a few feelings. This country needs to Man the **** up, and stop being so namby pamby. He said this...she said that. It's just stupid foolish songs.

So, because it's worse in other countries we shouldn't strive to improve our own society? that's some ****** up logic. Yes, I agree in comparison aspects of the middle eastern and Italian society are primitive bordering on neandrathalic! does that mean we should accept any blemishes in ours by virtue of it being worse somewhere else?

social acceptability is changing, just because it's "been going on for centuries" does not make it right, Political Correctness is a myth, there is just right and wrong!

I'm no saint, but I could never sit there and blindly defend my actions and not even acknowledge the racially motivated and derogitory implications of the chants we are discussing.

[sglosbcfc]

Just read all the comments in under 2 hours, phew. I have a few points to make - 1. There are Christian communities in Pakistan and of course Churches. 2. Recently I visited Egypt and Turkey and came across Christian churches before I came across Mosques. 3. Which ever way you try to twist it, the songs on saturday were sung to have a pop at Leicester fans for living in a city that is majority Asian. 4. i don't think for one minute that the City fans who sang those songs are nasty racists who want to burn down Mosques and vote BNP. 5. I do think there is a balance to be had between having a pop at the opposition (part of football and must remain) and slipping back to the days when a racial group (usually blacks in the 80s) suffered non stop abuse throughout the 90 minutes. 6. Finally, any lovers of Naan bread etc. pop into your local gurdwara (eastville park) or Mandir (Redfield/St george) and the Sikhs/Hindus will be only to pleased to chat with you about Asian culture and offer you grub and to be honest probably laugh about the songs sung on Saturday.

[Jordan Tansley]

Once again you've hit the nail on the head spudski so fairplay to you. I'm more interested in creating an atmosphere for my team to spur them on and if that means taking the piss out of them, then that's what I'll do, them's the rules. Some chants I hear at football I won't take part in because I feel they overstep the mark, the ones sang to Leicester didn't imo. Any posters branding me a rascist for singing them should take a good look at themselves and try not to be so judgemental.

surely even someone as entrenched and defensive as you can see the unquestionable contradiction in your post.

what on earth does supporting your team have to do with abusing the opposition fans?

And before you jump down anyone elses throat, nobody has called you a racist, the chants however were. thats a very subtle difference, maybe too subtle for you?

[CiderPunk]

surely even someone as entrenched and defensive as you can see the unquestionable contradiction in your post.

what on earth does supporting your team have to do with abusing the opposition fans?

And before you jump down anyone elses throat, nobody has called you a racist, the chants however were. thats a very subtle difference, maybe too subtle for you?

You can attempt to patronise me if you like, doesn't mean what you've wrote is correct though. There are posts on this thread calling me rascist, go back and read all the posts a bit slower, you'll find them.

As for 'what on earth does supporting your team have to do with abusing the opposition fans?' read my post again but do it very s l o w l y and maybe the penny will drop.

Good luck.

[Frome Valley]

And before you jump down anyone elses throat, nobody has called you a racist, the chants however were. thats a very subtle difference, maybe too subtle for you?

Do you actually know what was being sung?

In one of your posts you claim "**** off home" was being sung when it was actually "**** off home to Leicestershire!"

"Wheres your poppadom" & "naan bread" hardly imply racial superiority and try as i might I won't be crying about being told Bristol is in Wales either or about any another chants we will hear for the rest of season about Wurzel being as thick as shit. I quite like the irony.

[dezgimed]

Christ, someone take Jordan's thesaurus off him!

[Jordan Tansley]

Do you actually know what was being sung?

In one of your posts you claim "**** off home" was being sung when it was actually "**** off home to Leicestershire!"

"Wheres your poppadom" & "naan bread" hardly imply racial superiority and try as i might I won't be crying about being told Bristol is in Wales either or about any another chants we will hear for the rest of season about Wurzel being as thick as shit. I quite like the irony.

I took the quote from a Leicester fan who made the allegation. I've not presented it as factual, infact the only reason I brought it up was to ask why it was flippantly disregarded.

I've never mentioned superiority, but to use it as an isult does infact imply "superiority" otherwise why use it as an insult?

you carry on making things up to support your views though.

[Redcliffe 78]

Cant belevie this is still going i ******* hate Aussies they took a wicket second ball. Neighbours is shit, Home & Away is even worse and they gave us Rolf Harris ******* kangaroo munching w******.. Sport you take the piss (sorry for the poor attempt). There is a book out through talksport called sledging in the Ashes there is worst in there then and these are the players. Unbeleiveable.

[Frome Valley]

I took the quote from a Leicester fan who made the allegation. I've not presented it as factual, infact the only reason I brought it up was to ask why it was flippantly disregarded.

I've never mentioned superiority, but to use it as an isult does infact imply "superiority" otherwise why use it as an insult?

you carry on making things up to support your views though.

In your post you have stated the chants were racist, that is an assertion, a statement of fact.

One of the chants was "naan bread", now that is pretty ambiguous, "naan bread!". Come on "naan bread" does not equal a racial insult, it was simply ridiculous then and is now, singing "naan bread" does not imply superiority.

[TobysDad]

Mr Gow - and others who might or seem to think like you,

The reason I object to shortening Pakistani to Paki and not to the like of Australian to Aussie is, as I've saod before, its usually prefaced with the word "*******". The intention is intimidating and usually seeks to offend.

Again as I've said before its the intent and context that to me largely deems whether language is racist, offensive or simply puerile. Singing about naan bread or poppadums seems puerile to me rather than offensive.

Calling someone a paki would to my mind be offensive, and possibly racist. Calling someone an aussie or taff wouldn't. Calling someone a "*Racist Term Removed" - and see my earlier post when the word was replaced - as I'm sure it will be this time - is racist.

Intent and context. And perhaps ultimately the judge of intent and context, and whether something is racist or not should be the person to whom the comment has been directed.

At the end of the day Dave L certainly seems to have stirred a lengthy and heated discussion. Let's hope he has the grace to explain what he heard that he deemed racist in the first place. And perhaps if it truly was racist then the club have the grace to do something about it.

Whatever racism is - and it seems that many of us have a different view - it has absolutely no place in society.

[Riaz]

If it's not considered to be a bad thing, why sing it as an insult?

If chants to opposition fans are supposed to be a compliment, why don't we sing chants like "you've got quite a nice shopping area and some decent restaurants" to London clubs.

We don't because we're trying to "wind them up" by slagging them off.

The choice of what to use in this slagging off, based as it is on the race of people living in their town, is racist.

Well it's hardly praising Leicester for their multiculturalism is it?

It's often about context but when put in with the other football banter trying to get one over on the away fans it's hardly going to be used in a positive light is it?

Had it come after various chants of "my my Leicester - what a good team you are this half", "your stadium is very nice", "thank you for Gary Lineker" and "how well connected you are sat in the middle of the country" then perhaps I'll accept that it was a 'good' thing.

It is 100% racist. Listen to Sylvester, he is acutely aware of the problem and speaking with eloquence and intelligence on a very sensitive issue.

Those of you who believe it not to be racist just do not understand the issue, or are suppressed racists themselves. Either way, those who refuse to address this despicable behaviour and laugh it off are part of the problem and are holding back the progress of society.

I'd like to thank AJ Sylvester for taking the time to put over his viewpoint so eloquently in the face of such depressing hostility. Every now and again I read a thread on otib that really shocks and saddens me and this thread is right up there.

A lot of people who laugh at a racist joke don't consider themselves racist but understand why it's a joke. I think that's what's happened here - people understand the humour but don't consider themselves racist. Well, I'm sure the vast majority who sang these chants on Saturday are not racist but the words are.

I really hope that one or two of you will read AJ Sylvester's comments with open minds and that if you're not a racist you'll not join in with this type of chant in the future.

Have any of you ever suffered from real racism?? come back when you have.

Makes me laugh all these people who think they know what there talking about!

[Danny P]

Riaz I totally agree with you, I think this thread is bloody ridiculous, if I was to get my gollywog collection out that my gran helped me collect as a child would I get slated by these pc fools, people really need to chill out, I find it pathetic

[CotswoldRed]

I will say this - working in the NHS virtually all my working life the slightest hint of racism was severely dealt with. If I had asked one of the many Asian staff I worked with 'where's your poppadom?' in any tone I would have been in deep shite.

That really is different to what is acceptable on the terraces.

For example - chanting on the terraces that "[insert player name] is a w*nk3r" I can live with, as can (almost) everyone in the ground, including players. In the office it would be entirely different, of course.

Telling someone from Norwich that they have webbed feet in the office is equally unacceptable. Telling them across the terraces is altogether different.

We need to compare apples with apples here.

[Red-Robbo]

I'd personally not sing "where's your poppadom" or "small town in Asia" as that strikes me as a bit naff and likely to offend some people

BUT I have more of a problem with white people getting offended "on behalf" of other races.

[CotswoldRed]

It is 100% racist. Listen to Sylvester, he is acutely aware of the problem and speaking with eloquence and intelligence on a very sensitive issue.

Those of you who believe it not to be racist just do not understand the issue, or are suppressed racists themselves. Either way, those who refuse to address this despicable behaviour and laugh it off are part of the problem and are holding back the progress of society.

I assume you'll be complaining to Ofcom regarding the beer adverts on the telly at the moment (Channel 4 I think before comedy progs). It has stereotypical Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman characters walking into a bar.

Reinforcing negative stereotypes of the Irish I would say.

[CotswoldRed]

What a strange world we live in, we can sing about burning Twerton down, and hitting Rovers fans with a brick , but heck its a deadly sin to call a Pakistani a paki, errrm Australian Aussie, errrm Welshman Taff, Scotsman Jock. Irishman paddy, Franch man a frog, German a crout

What the hell is wrong with shortening the word Pakistani??????????????

Skysports' Ashes adverts show us characterised as 'Poms'.

I don't like it.

What can I do about it?

[Melksham Red]

WOW still going on!

Think i'll come back next week

[lifelong]

Oh good. Another group of dictators telling me how I should live me life whgat to say and what to think. Viva democracy!!

[BS10 RED]

The PC brigade will ban you waving the English flag so you won't need to worry. In some parts of the country they've already banned Xmas festivities for fear of upsetting other races and religions.

As I was saying this country has gone mad.... but I suspect we're reaching the tipping point.

This is similar to my children's school. There not allowed to do the Mary and Joseph nativity play anymore because some parents of other religions didn't want there children learning it.

[phantom]

So David heard racicst chanting ?

Did he report it at the time like "we" are told to do so ? / Did he mention it to a steward ?

Like many others heard a chant small town in Asia / Small town in Wales --- is that now deemed as racisct ?

But like others, dont agree that was the correct place to put the comment, why not put a topic on this site on Saturday night / Sunday morning ?