Apathy...

[lanceloto]

Apart from modern aesthetics and hospitality...what is wrong with our Stadium? What do you want that AV will give you, that AG hasn't?

I'm assuming an unobstructed view and being dry isn't "modern hospitality and aesthetics" so here's what I look forward to from Ashton vale;

a better view, a bigger crowd, more facilities, better disabled access, lower running costs, staying dry whilst watching the game, a good sporting arena in South Bristol. a chance to cash in on the crowds we all know we are capable of getting (be it premier league/cup) , not having to travel to reading for business meetings, bigger crowds ( more cash) at concerts, jobs. a multi million pound in investment in the future of south Bristol and Bristol City Football club. better parking, access (ESP from north Somerset), better standard of football ( hopefully), championship champions, premier league champions, European champions in all honesty I would love it much more than 15000 at Ashton gate playing championship football and the club loosing money.

Ashton gate has been great but we have been improving the club since the 80s why do you want to stop here? its better than it was, but it's not as good as it gets!

[havanatopia]

Historically City have had little success. 9 promotion in over 100 years I think. Its in the City's population mindset that City are a lower league outfit. Thats hard to shift.

Our Chairman is not a man who would try to 'hurry' success by throwing his cheque book at the problem. The progess in recent years has been gradual and long may it continue.

As for filling a stadium with 20000+, that would come success especially in a new stadium. A new stadium alone would put another 5k at least on attendences.

qty of promotions tells you nothing about promotions my friend. should that be the case we would be more successful than the likes of Arsenal.

[Frome Valley]

There "is" also the possibility that attendances could go through the roof and be sustained, nobody knows, you use your assumptions to suit yourself as does Nick J & Spudski.

We might also make it the best ever thing BCFC have ever done......IF FANS SUPPORT IT and don.t just moan!!!!.

As people have said, Steve Lansdown is an extremely successful buisnessman and doesn't take risks, he knows what has to be paid in the Championship (forget the Pleasure Beachers.....they were VERY lucky, even Hollowhead said it) he must have a very good idea of what he can attract and will happen with the new stadium.

BCAGFC

Have you contacted the local safety advisory group and the football licensing authority to back up your previous assertion that Ashton Gate is a dangerous stadium?

Have you checked Bristol City football clubs accounts to back up your claims the clubs annual maintenance costs are a million pounds ?

You have made reference to Supporters trust surveys [three since 2006] but don't appear to have actually read them.

I don't jump to assumptions and I do attempt to back up my postings with real facts [i don't post otherwise], you simply don't fella. Much of what is being claimed is at best uncertain when you stop and look at what actually occurs elsewhere.

If there is the real possibility the that attendances could go through the roof and be sustained without promotion what are you basing this upon? Pricing structures, references to football business models elsewhere what?

[The Batman]

I apologise in advance as I have not looked through all of the posts in detail to see if this has been said before (i didn't see it when going through)

I would love City to play infront of 30,000 / 40,000 people. Wembley was immense, but in the grand scheme of things, we've never been a successful club.

It's a bit dangerous basing our future on a new stadium. Very much Field of Dreams "if you build it, he will come" mentality.

What worries me is the stuation at Darlington

George Reynolds took over, wanted to buy a load of players to send them up, Built a new stadium that they were not gonna fill unless they got into the top divisions.

On my way up to Middlesbrough last year, i had to stop off in Darlington and you can see it as you get into the train station, it's massive.

They ended up in administration and now they have a 25,000 all seater stadium playing in the conference (average attendance of less than 1,500).

Not saying this will happen to City because Steve Landsown is a saint, but you never know what may happen in the future. The new stadium is no guarantee of success.

Hell look at Middlesbrough as well, they built a new stadium when in the prem, filled it for all their big prem and European games, now they're in the Championship and they get less than us.

[Economou]

I apologise in advance as I have not looked through all of the posts in detail to see if this has been said before (i didn't see it when going through)

I would love City to play infront of 30,000 / 40,000 people. Wembley was immense, but in the grand scheme of things, we've never been a successful club.

It's a bit dangerous basing our future on a new stadium. Very much Field of Dreams "if you build it, he will come" mentality.

What worries me is the stuation at Darlington

George Reynolds took over, wanted to buy a load of players to send them up, Built a new stadium that they were not gonna fill unless they got into the top divisions.

On my way up to Middlesbrough last year, i had to stop off in Darlington and you can see it as you get into the train station, it's massive.

They ended up in administration and now they have a 25,000 all seater stadium playing in the conference (average attendance of less than 1,500).

Not saying this will happen to City because Steve Landsown is a saint, but you never know what may happen in the future. The new stadium is no guarantee of success.

Hell look at Middlesbrough as well, they built a new stadium when in the prem, filled it for all their big prem and European games, now they're in the Championship and they get less than us.

Of course it will not guarantee success, in addition to Boro look at Saints & Leicester, both have 'new' stadia & both then spent time in the third division. Thing is though when they get it right on the pitch they'll have the facilities to back it up.

Think the comparison with Darlo is a bit silly although I know what you mean.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Me and 2 mates used to sell programmes in those days and would see 50+ of coaches from all over the west country turn up with BCFC flags in the back windows.

Yes, most of the coaches disappeared when we got relegated, perhaps there wasn't the numbers to make it worthwhile or perhaps they started arriving by train, who knows?.

As for what AV will bring me, a more comfortable seat, leg room, not have to queue for the toilets for 20 minutes at half time, same with the grub, be able to get a beer before & after the game within yards of my seat, easier parking, the list goes on.

We all love AG but it is outdated and need to move into the 21st century with all the advantages that that can bring us.

BCAGFC

I remember some coaches, but 50+? It's impossible to imagine where 50+ coaches would have parked.

It would only need one BCFC supporter on the coach for a flag to be displayed in the window - the fact these coaches stopped coming on relegation tells me these coaches were not packed with BCFC supporters. I don't think they switched to trains either, our gates halved on relegation to an average of below 10,000.

I'm happy enough with the comfort of my seat, leg room etc. Easier parking? Well, I assume this means a massive car park, in which case it will take an hour to get out of like car parks in similar new builds.Doesn't sound easier to me.

No doubt there will be advantages to the new stadium for certain types of supporter, especially new ones, but they aren't enough in my view to compensate for how much present day fans will lose with the demolition of Ashton Gate.

[Robbored]

I'm happy enough with the comfort of my seat, leg room etc. Easier parking? Well, I assume this means a massive car park, in which case it will take an hour to get out of like car parks in similar new builds.Doesn't sound easier to me.

No doubt there will be advantages to the new stadium for certain types of supporter, especially new ones, but they aren't enough in my view to compensate for how much present day fans will lose with the demolition of Ashton Gate.

I don't which stands your're in but apart from the Atyeo access in and out to the other 3 stands is awfull. Just two exits in the Dolman cause a backlog after the final whistle which is why we see plenty of moans about people leaving thier seats early. The toilets are awfull, small, smelly with queue's in the Williams, Wedlocks and Dolman. Same with the 'food' outlets. Parking is a nightmare made worse by the council placing double yellow lines where they are not necessary.

The only thing I like about AG (apart from some brilliant memories) is the fantastic view from the back of the Dolman Stand. Even then we get harrassed by the stewards to sit down even tho' fans are stood up in the EE.

Personally I can't wait to for the new stadium.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I don't which stands your're in but apart from the Atyeo access in and out to the other 3 stands is awfull. Just two exits in the Dolman cause a backlog after the final whistle which is why we see plenty of moans about people leaving thier seats early. The toilets are awfull, small, smelly with queue's in the Williams, Wedlocks and Dolman. Same with the 'food' outlets. Parking is a nightmare made worse by the council placing double yellow lines where they are not necessary.

The only thing I like about AG (apart from some brilliant memories) is the fantastic view from the back of the Dolman Stand. Even then we get harrassed by the stewards to sit down even tho' fans are stood up in the EE.

Personally I can't wait to for the new stadium.

Lower Dolman Robbored, no problem with access in or out. I don't often use the toilets and never buy food.

The ground exits easily all round apart from the Upper Dolman in my experience. You haven't explained why a huge number of cars in a new car park will make exiting the area easier or quicker.

If you feel harassed by the stewards now it will probably be even worse in the new ground - it seems to be an accepted thing now that they can often come over as bothersome as opposed to helpful.

The EE is different as regards standing - if they allow the away fans to stand in there they can hardly make a big thing of it when home fans do.

[Robbored]

You haven't explained why a huge number of cars in a new car park will make exiting the area easier or quicker.

I didn't try to explain!

But....I'm hopefull that City would have learnt from the mistake Reading made with only having one smallish road in and out of the Mad Stad parking area.

[The Batman]

I didn't try to explain!

But....I'm hopefull that City would have learnt from the mistake Reading made with only having one smallish road in and out of the Mad Stad parking area.

that is true.

I remember when i first went to Madjeski, it was after we got relegated and it was the first game of the season. Lost 2-1, Gerard Lavin's famous 5 mins

Getting out was a nightmare. i've got the train to Reading ever since.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I didn't try to explain!

But....I'm hopefull that City would have learnt from the mistake Reading made with only having one smallish road in and out of the Mad Stad parking area.

Well you should have done!

There's no point saying exiting the ground will be quicker for some fans (specifically for those who now sit in the 'Upper' Dolman imo) when exiting the car park and the area in general may take far longer than getting away from AG today. The time involved, inconvenience and frustration may well increase for most.

I don't think it is possible make enormous car parks quick to exit with the sheer number of cars which would be involved.

[Keepers Ball]

It seems is prevelent massively, when it comes to BCFC.

Does anyone else feel this is the case with our Club?

Since our promotion, it has become apparant to me, that many heve forgotten how many years it has taken to get back into the Championship.

Yet, it seems, the Championship feels like the norm. The Euphoria of that first season up has gone, and many of us have forgotten the struggle to get here.

However...We are here, and the Championship 'feels' like the place to be. Yet our crowds and interest in BCFC, seem exactly the same as when we were doing well in League 1.

I really do worry about our Club.

I see SL's aspireations and what he wants for the Club, but i really do feel there is complete Apathy in Bristol regarding BCFC, and apart from occassions when we are playing against top teams, at Cardiff or Wembley for Finals, or a chance of Promotion, then the 'massive support' never ventures out of the woodwork.

In all honesty, regardless of AV, or a revamped AG, do you really think BCFC, can attract more than 20,000 week in, week out on a regular basis, regardless of what league we are in?

That is because Bristol as a City is apathetic.

[Bris Red]

Some great points on this thread but in my honest opinion there are many reason why we dont get the huge crowds that potentially we could get. The most obvious one is as has been said AG is viewed by many as a dump, of course we all love it but to the fair weather fan its just not an attractive place to come to so straight away thats 5 or 6 thousand people put off.

Sucess over the years is also massive, ask yourself honestly what have we done since the 70's? Eff all really. Bumbled around the lower leagues basically treading water. We havnt stirred the fans in this city and thats what has to happen if you want to see big followings. The populations of Citys like Sheffield, Derby, Nottingham etc etc have been stirred into following there local club. There is also this mindset in Bristol that both City and Rovers are crap small time clubs and there is just no point wasting money to follow them..

Are big trips away to Wembley and Cardiff show we have i would say 30 to 40 thousand fans that clearly have an interest in city and would go if we were we had sucess (prem football) So the support is there we just need to get it right on the pitch for a sustained period at this level (like we are doing) get into the prem with the stadium built and the Wembley support will come on a regular basis im shore of it.

What people need to understand is this is not an over night process, the fan base of a club is ingrained in generations and takes time and success for it to build. At the end of the day we have everything down here in the west country to become a big big club once the stadium bullshit is sorted and built. Huge huge catchment area with no real competition etc etc.

We will get there but it will take time..

[lanceloto]

Well you should have done!

There's no point saying exiting the ground will be quicker for some fans (specifically for those who now sit in the 'Upper' Dolman imo) when exiting the car park and the area in general may take far longer than getting away from AG today. The time involved, inconvenience and frustration may well increase for most.

I don't think it is possible make enormous car parks quick to exit with the sheer number of cars which would be involved.

the fact that the cars will be exiting onto a main A road will mean a huge reduction of build up around the Cumberland basin, traffic that currently has to travel through it to reach north somerset will be gone.

with a 30000 seated stadium and hopefully an arena as well a huge importance would be put on opening the railway.

also with the good facilities and aesthetics, welcoming design people will be less keen to leave as soon as possible after the games.

rapid bus scheme will be great as well.

people seem to be worrying that we won't get the crowds, others are worried that we will get such big crowds we will be trapped!

maybe (my theory) we will get good large crowds and we will have no trouble leaving.

[BCAGFC]

Regarding Stats Stadiums proofs for multiple teams from every league near enough those with redeveloped stadia new stadia and so on plus relevant facts attendence perecentages and so on see this thread on Ziderheads from about here.

Lets just say based on that thread which all seems to be backed up and correct that what has been said in this thread is not really much more pie in the sky ( it even looks at bardiff attendances and how they deviate and why they are 'up')

Bristol is not a football city in the traditional sense and unless the team IE us go on our best run ever, which would be sustained top tier Prem and possible Euro Qualifications then it isnt sustainable

Furthermore, places like Bolton and Wigan with sustained Prem have had attendences lower than we have this season for games vs some of the Prems big hitters. Man Utd have had Season tickets on general sale for the 1st time in a very long

The New Stadium thing as being our saviour is a myth and other than Arsenal there is no club doing significantly better in attendance or income, without an increase in playing fortunes the stats in the linked thread make some interesting reading

Well I'm going to say it is a load rollocks as Frome Valley has said about an accomplished companys report, stats can be looked at both ways.

BCAGFC

[Louis]

Spudski

This is the "killer" post on this thread.

You are grossly underestimating the HUGE potential wider potential local support for BCFC if a) we have the new stadium and b) we get into the Prem.

As I have previously posted on here, I work in Bridgwater where I know of at least 10 work mates who would regularly attend games if a and b above happened.

And that is just Somerset, before we consider football fans living in Dorset and Devon and even Cornwall as our potential fan base. Even more likely if Plymouth go down the pan.

I have no doubt that a capacity of 30K at Ashton Vale (if we ever get into the Prem) is actually not enough seats.

As a STH myself, my advice is to keep renewing your ST to secure your seat in the new stadium. They are going to be in demand.

Funniest post I have read in a long time. First off, a 30,000 seat stadium is far too big. There is NO WAY we will fill it consistently week in week out. What makes you think we would need a bigger ground? You are talking nonsense!

Secondly, it sounds like your work mates are typical part-timers. They will only attend a game if City reach the Premier League and start playing in a modern ground? That is laughable.

Wake up.

[BCAGFC]

Have you checked the thread and the stats?

Yes/No (delete as appropriate)

If Yes, what is incorrect with those assertions?

If No, what then are you blathering about? One company's say so vs multiple sources, accounts of various clubs, statistics, eye witness accounts and so forth and so on. I'd recommend reading the thread and trying again. It's a little bit 'selective' to dismiss everything over one report, embrace what other options are on offer.

Failing all that you could look at why Juventus, yes, Juventus are building a new stadium which only holds 40,000 fans ( attendances in Italy are massively on the slide, despite decades of greatness, and the demolition of a stadium that was only 18 years old which was 20K, bigger among other factors) and then look at as to why we currently have the 45th biggest stadia in the country, with increases to to around 30th at 30k but we have never in our history supported anywhere near that number of fans on a consistant basis.

From the linked thread heres a hint of the depth that is laid out in

My comments were a bit harsh but when people only look at things one way, I look at it one way as well, I will study the thread when I can find my Ciderheadz login......

Just looking at some of the quote above though, there is absolutely no similarity between Darlington and us.....two completely different worlds.......

AV is being build with private sector money, hardly no cost to BCFC (couple of mill).

And.........it is not about getting bums on seats (although they will come in handy if needed, how many would we have got against Newcastle last season?).....it is about non matchday income......if it was about seats then AG would be re-developed.

And Juve are only moving because the Della Apli has no atmosphere due to huge gap between the terraces and the pitch, their fans have said that they want an 'English' ground with 4 seperate stands close to the pitch.

BCAGFC

[The Batman]

My comments were a bit harsh but when people only look at things one way, I look at it one way as well, I will study the thread when I can find my Ciderheadz login......

Just looking at some of the quote above though, there is absolutely no similarity between Darlington and us.....two completely different worlds.......

BCAGFC

i am trying to look at it from both ways, i'd love us to have a massive stadium, but i dont think we can justify it as our attendances aint been that great.

i used darlington as they tried for bigger and better things before they got to where they wanted. We want to get in the Prem, new stadium wont improve how good the players are.

I dont mean to be negative but it's just an opinion.

I'd rather we spent the cash on the playing staff, got promoted, established ourselves up there, then built a new ground.

How many teams in England have a stadium over 30k and have never played in the prem????? The answer is 0

[BCAGFC]

Darlington is one example of where it has gone spectacularlry wrong with Chairmen funding and attendance. You could look at Oxford with the debacle and their new stadium ( not relevant/ compare them to where they were and where they are 20 years later.) dont say it wont happen, remember we have the dubious pleasure of being the first club to be relegated from the prem to the basement successively afaik the only other club to do this are wolves. There are a myriad of other examples of clubs not turning profit after moving.. iirc its only Arsenal that have made profit?

For a team that has not spent more than 7 seasons in the top division and more than 50 per cent of its existence in the third tier we have no history and are small fry. so how is it , different to Darlington?

AV is being built with private money? Loo at reading for example, the non matchday revenue doesnt compute. They are treading water even sharing with a rugby team and adding a hotel. The links are on the ziderheads thread, but show that it isnt the godsend that people are predicting

If we arent getting any revenue from the stadium as you propose what happens with regards to us being a going concern? A collection of players with minimal value wages that are more than turn over and no ground effectively makes us dead in the water as is. How is that going to improve the team? Did no one see the Gretna Model?

Juve's ground is the same site as where the Delle Alpi was, it's been demolished and they are rebuilding on the same site, which is one of the reasons to mention it (They arekeeping some familial architecture in the new design) The attendence of Juve could not sustain a stadium that size. Its not all about the modernity ( several factors including owning their own stadium The first major team to do so, decline and it is a massive decline in attendances across the board and a cost which at 105 Million Euros when first budgeted is cheaper than our own given what the exchange rate was when was first budgeted ( Even now it's only £88 million quid approx) There ground will also have seats in the 'curves; that are close than Man City Arsenal and Wembley to the action at 7.5metres. This is a team which has massive pedigree in the world game, and are equivalent to Manchester United in terms of titles cups etc yet are downsizing rather than going all out mental for seats.

If as you say seats arent an issue why not a 25k stadium, historically we have never had more than than for a sustained period, on the same site with built in boxes and a hotel? its not as if there isnt room, there could be and would be cheaper to buy houses or buildings in the surrounding area than say redevelop completely on a different site.? Plenty of clubs have done that How is that not an option. Blackpool would be prime example to use. Bloomfield Road was a 10 shed a decade ago with a hill for away fans to get soaked on. now its coming on to be fantastic stadia on the same site. developed bit by bit.

Ive not said either way what I want to do with the stadium. What Iam doing is looking at the stadium objectively from all angles. As an exile (lived away from Bristol for some time) its much easy to see because Im not subjected to the same 'pier pressure' and one mindedness that seems to come across.

The lack of any justification and the lack of any figures that make any sense other than to just trust Steve L seems trite especially when you are arguing above the Stadium is all going to be about PFI and their profits (if any) before the team. Id rather have a team and be playing in whatever league than be a after thought in someone elses venture.. Portsmouth have been there as have many others.

What does the move have for the future of Bristol City Football Club that we dont get now?

Some good points but have been replied to in the past.

What I would REALLY like to know is.........all the people that say AG should be redeveloped, does that include their beloved EE or is it just the rest of the ground that they want changed?.

I suspect they are only thinking about themselves and basing their whole argument on that.

And some of them had the audacity to call the SC selfish.

BCAGFC

[bucksred]

But where is the proof...these statements are all peoples presumptions. The fact that someone thinks City against Wigan in the Premier League will attract 20,000+ is preposterious, on a regular basis.

I'm not against a new Stadium. I'd prefer AG to be revamped, but if AV happens so be it.

But the fact remains. SL has come out with a plan, said we need such and such to progress, and everyone it seems, has bowed down and taken it for granted. Give me facts and figures to prove fans will come and that we need a new stadium to progress. Unless you can't, then we are just taking someones word for granted. Lemmings come to mind...

Pretty much every team which has built a new stadium in the top two divisions gates have gone up. As the gates go up, the funds coming in rise, a better quality of player can be attracted (Better stadium/Training facilities, and wages) its a win win situation. The only problems are the palyers not performing/getting too high wages. That will be the same no matter where we play.

AG is past it now, and we must be one of the dwindling band of clubs with a ground which cant/hasnt been improved/and or a new stadium in this division

[Nogbad the Bad]

Pretty much every team which has built a new stadium in the top two divisions gates have gone up. As the gates go up, the funds coming in rise, a better quality of player can be attracted (Better stadium/Training facilities, and wages) its a win win situation. The only problems are the palyers not performing/getting too high wages. That will be the same no matter where we play.

AG is past it now, and we must be one of the dwindling band of clubs with a ground which cant/hasnt been improved/and or a new stadium in this division

Improvements were planned of course, but shelved in pursuit of the new stadium.

It doesn't seem long ago I was taking a photo of the EE at the end of the season because it was due to be knocked down by the start of the next.

If the new stadium doesn't get the go ahead Plan B will swing into action and we'll be seeing improvements at AG fairly swiftly I would think.

[bucksred]

Improvements were planned of course, but shelved in pursuit of the new stadium.

It doesn't seem long ago I was taking a photo of the EE at the end of the season because it was due to be knocked down by the start of the next.

If the new stadium doesn't get the go ahead Plan B will swing into action and we'll be seeing improvements at AG fairly swiftly I would think.

Noggers, understand the affection for the old place, but we cant do a busting lot with it, as any significant work will cost stupid amounts of money, if the rumours Ive heard are true.

I think the new stadium is the only way the club has to grow and improve. Fair enough as others have pointed out, its all a risk a la Saints, Foxes & Charlton, but I still see n o reason to stay. quite apart from anything else the nimbys will block ANY improvements ti the Gate if they succeed in killing Sainsbury's & the New Stadium off, specially as its become gentrified in the area, like it or not.

Ive been back in the EE since they re-opened it as well as being a regular before they shut it, when the Atyeo opened, so I have a feel for the old club.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Noggers, understand the affection for the old place, but we cant do a busting lot with it, as any significant work will cost stupid amounts of money, if the rumours Ive heard are true.

I think the new stadium is the only way the club has to grow and improve. Fair enough as others have pointed out, its all a risk a la Saints, Foxes & Charlton, but I still see n o reason to stay. quite apart from anything else the nimbys will block ANY improvements ti the Gate if they succeed in killing Sainsbury's & the New Stadium off, specially as its become gentrified in the area, like it or not.

Ive been back in the EE since they re-opened it as well as being a regular before they shut it, when the Atyeo opened, so I have a feel for the old club.

Yep, Bucks, it would be one hell of a wrench to leave the Gate.

But there must be a Plan B just in case we don't - to me that would mean resurrecting the plans for a new EE and a new Williams including executive boxes.

I really don't know about the cost but bearing in mind the comparative simplicity of replacing the Open End 15 years ago I'm always surprised at the incredible sums mentioned and the difficulties envisaged.

A new EE at least would surely be straightforward and affordable.

I don't think the Nimby's ever had any strong objections to those plans.

[Sargent Pepper]

The thing is that re-developing AG is gonna be much more expensive and bearing in mind the close proximity of the neighbours is gonna be very hard to build something big enough to be worthwhile. Look behind th EE, there is no depth for a large stand including exec boxes etc. At best we may squeeze in another Atyeo stand and with the cost to seats/income ratio it's just not worth it.

I don't want to leave AG, but i think that sadly we need to or will be left behind

[bucksred]

Yep, Bucks, it would be one hell of a wrench to leave the Gate.

But there must be a Plan B just in case we don't - to me that would mean resurrecting the plans for a new EE and a new Williams including executive boxes.

I really don't know about the cost but bearing in mind the comparative simplicity of replacing the Open End 15 years ago I'm always surprised at the incredible sums mentioned and the difficulties envisaged.

A new EE at least would surely be straightforward and affordable.

I don't think the Nimby's ever had any strong objections to those plans.

Quite right Noggers, they didnt then, but I suspect that IF they succeed once they'll keep pushing and objecting, and we're then into sag sag territory struggling for a decent ground. I for one don't trust red trousers and his ilk, they know the law backwards and seem to push all the right buttons all the damn time. I dont think a lot of Bristol City Councillors give a toss about top sport in Bristol, let alone a decent music venue, if their core voters object,and I dont think they will be in any rush to help. look what happened after Eastville to the gash

[Frome Valley]

Pretty much every team which has built a new stadium in the top two divisions gates have gone up. As the gates go up, the funds coming in rise, a better quality of player can be attracted (Better stadium/Training facilities, and wages) its a win win situation. The only problems are the palyers not performing/getting too high wages. That will be the same no matter where we play.

AG is past it now, and we must be one of the dwindling band of clubs with a ground which cant/hasnt been improved/and or a new stadium in this division

Not quite sure about your first point here = Coventry, Derby, Leicester and Southampton all relegated within seasons of promotion and are still not back to their original status pre move.

Your second point appears to be incorrect as all three clubs experienced increased losses.

Ashton Gate of course can be improved and the cost of redevelopment for the East End was [now probably increased?] below ten millions pounds. This was to be an extensive overhaul instead of building a inexpensive cantilever stand minus boxes etc.

Adjacent land would need to bought to build the same facilities at Ashton Gate v Ashton Vale. The question though of who will own all the assets and who will be the main beneficary at Ashton Vale is very unclear. If basic projections are not provided it is hard to see how funds will increase as the clubs overheads [repayment/lease] could increase.

[Port Said Red]

I think there is an element of risk with both the option of building a new stadium and refurbing the old one, one of the huge advantages of building from new is the reduced cost in terms of capacity while the work is ongoing.

My only point to those stating that new grounds have not always worked, is that the "conurbations" mentioned (not the clubs necessarily) are tiny in comparison to Bristol and in most cases are dwarfed by larger nearby areas offering better and more numerous facilities. e.g. Darlington is a small place, Reading and Coventry are larger but within easy reach of London or Birmingham, Wigan is both small and within easy reach of Manchester and Liverpool. This would be the largest facility of it's kind in the largest conurbation in 100 miles, it's taken 40 years to get here, but Bristol is a large city moving forward and should have the facilities to match.

[Nogbad the Bad]

We don't need a 30,000 seater stadium.

We have never achieved anywhere near that figure as an average gate since the last war, even when City were in the top league.

To think there are tens of thousands of people suddenly going to rush to fill a a new stadium regularly, whatever division we are in, is bordering on the absurd.

There isn't that level of interest in Bristol City Football Club, never has been, and no reason why there ever will be.

Oh, and don't tell me about the 30-40k that turn out for Freight Rover Finals, play offs etc., I don't think Grannie, all the fans' wives/girlfriends and a few of their usually disinterested mates are going to turn out very often in the biting cold or wind and rain of most of the football season at Ashton Vale or anywhere else.

[Sargent Pepper]

To say we'll never sell 30k seats is just daft. We'd sell out on the 1st ever competitive match at the new stadium!

I agree that in our current position that would be a rariety rather than the norm, but with a bit of sucsess and sensible pricing I don't see why we can't attract 20-25k gates.

The stadium development is about so much more than full houses, but surely it's better to have the option than not.... Isn't it?

[lanceloto]

We don't need a 30,000 seater stadium.

We have never achieved anywhere near that figure as an average gate since the last war, even when City were in the top league.

To think there are tens of thousands of people suddenly going to rush to fill a a new stadium regularly, whatever division we are in, is bordering on the absurd.

There isn't that level of interest in Bristol City Football Club, never has been, and no reason why there ever will be.

Oh, and don't tell me about the 30-40k that turn out for Freight Rover Finals, play offs etc., I don't think Grannie, all the fans' wives/girlfriends and a few of their usually disinterested mates are going to turn out very often in the biting cold or wind and rain of most of the football season at Ashton Vale or anywhere else.

it's as simple as this: bigger stadium = bigger potential crowd = more cash = more money on squad = better football = happy city fans = more city fans = bigger crowds... etc... this is just about possible at Ashton gate , I don't like the odds.

however what Ashton vale offers is a substantial non-matchday outfit, this improves the odds massively, more money invested in the clubs well being etc...

saying that Ashton vale is too big is foolish, to get money from football they have to get as many paying punters to each match as possible. say at Ashton vale we usually get ... 20000 per game in the championship, then get a promotion race, play-off games, or high profile cup draw and get some near 30000 crowds. thats 100000£ extra per game if they each payed just 10£, add in refreshments, merch. hospitality guests.

It would cost pretty much just as much to build a 20000 seater, I say jam as much in as possible to cash in on the odd big crowd. others seam to have much more philosophical ideals about it.

comparing Bristol (regional capital, 6th biggest population in the country, 8th biggest uk,) to darlington(... ) is silly.