Apathy...

[spudski]

It seems is prevelent massively, when it comes to BCFC.

Does anyone else feel this is the case with our Club?

Since our promotion, it has become apparant to me, that many heve forgotten how many years it has taken to get back into the Championship.

Yet, it seems, the Championship feels like the norm. The Euphoria of that first season up has gone, and many of us have forgotten the struggle to get here.

However...We are here, and the Championship 'feels' like the place to be. Yet our crowds and interest in BCFC, seem exactly the same as when we were doing well in League 1.

I really do worry about our Club.

I see SL's aspireations and what he wants for the Club, but i really do feel there is complete Apathy in Bristol regarding BCFC, and apart from occassions when we are playing against top teams, at Cardiff or Wembley for Finals, or a chance of Promotion, then the 'massive support' never ventures out of the woodwork.

In all honesty, regardless of AV, or a revamped AG, do you really think BCFC, can attract more than 20,000 week in, week out on a regular basis, regardless of what league we are in?

[Portland Bill]

Yes, only in a new ground though.

[Keith_Lemon]

In the premier league we would definately get over 20,000 a week. Even 30,000 in my opinion. But most of these people will be band wagon fans or just families out for a day to come see Man Utd play because its closer. Football in the west country has always been low key. Definately needs a team in the Premier League to start the ball rolling for fans among the west country.

[Robbored]

I really do worry about our Club.

I see SL's aspireations and what he wants for the Club, but i really do feel there is complete Apathy in Bristol regarding BCFC, and apart from occassions when we are playing against top teams, at Cardiff or Wembley for Finals, or a chance of Promotion, then the 'massive support' never ventures out of the woodwork.

In all honesty, regardless of AV, or a revamped AG, do you really think BCFC, can attract more than 20,000 week in, week out on a regular basis, regardless of what league we are in?

Historically City have had little success. 9 promotion in over 100 years I think. Its in the City's population mindset that City are a lower league outfit. Thats hard to shift.

Our Chairman is not a man who would try to 'hurry' success by throwing his cheque book at the problem. The progess in recent years has been gradual and long may it continue.

As for filling a stadium with 20000+, that would come success especially in a new stadium. A new stadium alone would put another 5k at least on attendences.

[spudski]

That's really interesting, why do you think a new Stadium would bring another 5000 through the gate. A presumption on your part of course.

Of the people i've spoken too, people have said they would go out of curiosity to start, but unless the entertainment was better and price dropped, they wouldn't bother on a regular basis.

Do you really think we would attract 5000 new supporters on a regular basis, just because we have a new Stadium? Can you explain to me why you think this please.

[Jordan Tansley]

Don't forget Spudski, we've taken over 40,000 fans to both Wembley and Cardiff. The fan base is there, it's just a case of offering them the product they want to buy.

The current financial climate makes it difficult to retain current supporters, let alone attract new ones. But, hopefully we will move out of the recession in teh not too distant future and people can again begin spending on leisure time... with that will hopefully come a significant lift in season ticket sales.

[Barrs Court Red]

Have you not realisd the expansion in Bristol since our last period in the top flight? Have you not noticed how the number of season ticket holders has doubled from the figure in 2000.

City are an expanding club held back by a piss poor stadium.

[The Gasbuster]

That's really interesting, why do you think a new Stadium would bring another 5000 through the gate. A presumption on your part of course.

Of the people i've spoken too, people have said they would go out of curiosity to start, but unless the entertainment was better and price dropped, they wouldn't bother on a regular basis.

Do you really think we would attract 5000 new supporters on a regular basis, just because we have a new Stadium? Can you explain to me why you think this please.

An extra 5,000 is realistic imo. Reading played in front of 5,000 at Elm Park. You only have to look at Cardiff and Swansea, they have easily increased their gates by 5,000 +.

Other good examples are Bolton and Wigan.

[spudski]

Yes...I am aware of the support we have on big and important occassions. As i hinted at in my previous post. The thing is, the recession is not going to get better. It is forcast to get worse, for the forseable future. Not my guess, but fact.

What do Football fans in Bristol want? Have you ever been asked? Has their been a market research done? Do you know anyone or yourself, asked what you want, that would make you go to BCFC on a regular basis?

Seriously...I know as many people who say they would go as they wouldn't, to a new Stadium.

This isn't some underhand way of having a go at the new Stadium plans... I'm just curious as to how these assumptions come about.

For those who live in Bristol, BCFC, is reported in local media as being an important entity in footballing terms. However... move away, and BCFC is seen as important as Barnsley or Doncaster...Seriously...this is how we are seen in football circles. We are no bodies.

[Robbored]

Do you really think we would attract 5000 new supporters on a regular basis, just because we have a new Stadium? Can you explain to me why you think this please.

Other posters have answered that question but I would add that some fans who rarely attend AG currently blame the parking difficulties and prices.

With a new stadium, easier access, including parking and sensible POTD prices fans would start to return We've seen that happen at other clubs who have new stadiums.

Of course a team playing decent attacking football would be the real attraction.

[BCAGFC]

BCFC & The Football League have done MANY surveys in the past, asking fans what would make them go on a more regular basis.

Prices, parking, travel, standard of stadium facilities, standard of football, money problems, & losing interest were some of the answers.

Our new stadium will bring an increase attendance, the corporate facilities will probably bring in nearly a 1000 alone.

BCAGFC

[spudski]

Other posters have answered that question but I would add that some fans who rarely attend AG currently blame the parking difficulties and prices.

With a new stadium, easier access, including parking and sensible POTD prices fans would start to return We've seen that happen at other clubs who have new stadiums.

Of course a team playing decent attacking football would be the real attraction.

Regardless of where you live in Bristol, easy access is not going to be overcome by moving to AV. Perhaps if parking is available, that will help, but getting across Bristol is a nightmate regardless of AV or AG.

Prices won't come down only up. Sitting in a newer stadium watching the same standard of football and standard of entertainment will only attract 'part time' fans for so long. Even if we attract 20,000 each week which is a 5000 increase on what we are attracting now, a third of the stadium proposed is still going to be empty. 10000 seats empty. There is no way, we will attract more than 20,000 fans on a regular basis, in a new stadium, if we are in the championship.

[spudski]

BCFC & The Football League have done MANY surveys in the past, asking fans what would make them go on a more regular basis.

Prices, parking, travel, standard of stadium facilities, standard of football, money problems, & losing interest were some of the answers.

Our new stadium will bring an increase attendance, the corporate facilities will probably bring in nearly a 1000 alone.

BCAGFC

Has this been asked on forums or the masses? Please prove your point. I've never seen any market research by the football league or BCFC and i am an average joe.

[BCAGFC]

Has this been asked on forums or the masses? Please prove your point. I've never seen any market research by the football league or BCFC and i am an average joe.

I am sure if you searched the otib/football league website archives you would find them very easily.

Did you reply to the new stadium surveys?, there were AT LEAST 2 of them.

BCAGFC

[Lrrr]

thing is we can't attract 20,000 fans at Ashton Gate as it doesn't hold it, the stadium itself many people view as awkward it terms of some seats having view blocked, seats not undercover and how long it takes to get away from the stadium after the game. Being in the new stadium vision will be unimpaired, undercover and should be easier to get away from the stadium itself eg not having to wait 10 minutes to get out of the dolman. Also by the time the stadium is built i believe we will realistically be promotion challengers regularly if not having been in the prem, and the season we got to the play off final our back end of the season we were selling out so who knows how many tickets we could have sold in a bigger stadium.

[spudski]

I am sure if you searched the otib/football league website archives you would find them very easily.

Did you reply to the new stadium surveys?, there were AT LEAST 2 of them.

BCAGFC

Whether it be Football league websites and our own forum...you are already talking to the converted. It's the apathetic masses that need to be converted, not those that read or participate in these types of forums or websites. Is there anyone on this forum that doesn't go to watch City on a regular basis, unless they live in another Country or miles away?

The masses, not the converted, are what need to be spoken to. This forum is not a typical example of the normal BCFC fan.

[spudski]

thing is we can't attract 20,000 fans at Ashton Gate as it doesn't hold it, the stadium itself many people view as awkward it terms of some seats having view blocked, seats not undercover and how long it takes to get away from the stadium after the game. Being in the new stadium vision will be unimpaired, undercover and should be easier to get away from the stadium itself eg not having to wait 10 minutes to get out of the dolman. Also by the time the stadium is built i believe we will realistically be promotion challengers regularly if not having been in the prem, and the season we got to the play off final our back end of the season we were selling out so who knows how many tickets we could have sold in a bigger stadium.

The roads and access are the problem, not 10 mins to walk out of the Dolman. It takes me longer to walk out of Old Trafford and up Matt Busby Way...at least 20 mins to get out onto the main road. It's quicker to get out of the Gate than most Prem Grounds.

[BCAGFC]

I know 100s of fans that have given up going to watch BCFC on a regular basis for varying reasons over the years

We spent so long treading water in the lower divisions it will take years to get those fans back through the turnstiles on a regular basis.

And how would you propose to survey these other fans, you only have to look at the floor at AG when anything is given out, papers planes anyone?.

An online survey is about as good as you will get unless you spend the cash to have people troll the City Centre with clipboards.

BCAGFC

[Ashton Fred]

Although a new stadium will increase attendances, unless I'm mistaken, this area has one of the highest levels of local sport in the country so limiting large attendances to high profile matches.

[apathy]

Yay my own thread!

I was going to post a detailed well constructed response. You know the sort- opening para couple of factual gems to outline my argument, second para my thoughts, third para conclusion perhaps throwing in a couple of challenging questions for my fellow postees, sprinkle with a smidgeon of humour throughout.

But could not be arsed. Maybe tomorrow.

[spudski]

I know 100s of fans that have given up going to watch BCFC on a regular basis for varying reasons over the years

We spent so long treading water in the lower divisions it will take years to get those fans back through the turnstiles on a regular basis.

And how would you propose to survey these other fans, you only have to look at the floor at AG when anything is given out, papers planes anyone?.

An online survey is about as good as you will get unless you spend the cash to have people troll the City Centre with clipboards.

BCAGFC

£70 per day for people to market research the local populus. I know, because i've employed people to do this. Hardly going to break the bank is it? As you imply, it is not a new Stadium, but may be Premier League football that will increase attendances. But not because people want to see BCFC, but with the hope of their local team turning over Man UTd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. Bristol City V Wigan in the Premier League will attract what?

[spudski]

Yay my own thread!

I was going to post a detailed well constructed response. You know the sort- opening para couple of factual gems to outline my argument, second para my thoughts, third para conclusion perhaps throwing in a couple of challenging questions for my fellow postees, sprinkle with a smidgeon of humour throughout.

But could not be arsed. Maybe tomorrow.

Classic...Well said normal BCFC fan...apathetic you are

[BCAGFC]

As you imply, it is not a new Stadium, but may be Premier League football that will increase attendances. But not because people want to see BCFC, but with the hope of their local team turning over Man UTd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. Bristol City V Wigan in the Premier League will attract what?

Attendances will rise due to the better facilities available, and the curiosity of a new stadium to go to.

Bristol City v Wigan Athletic in the premier league would attract 20k+ at normal prices although if we were struggling we might have to drop the prices for that one, BCFC v ManUre, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, man City etc etc would sell out at any price.

BCAGFC

[Jordan Tansley]

Spudski, you ask all these questions, but you never listen to the answers.

it's obvious you are massively against the new stadium, looking through your posting history is enough evidence to state that, But why ask the questions you do( most of which are good questions) and then not listen to the points people make in responce and ignore the main points of there posts.

[Lrrr]

City Vs Wigan would attract simply because of fans wanting to see their local team in the premier league and not being sure when the next chance could be after that season

[spudski]

Spudski, you ask all these questions, but you never listen to the answers.

it's obvious you are massively against the new stadium, looking through your posting history is enough evidence to state that, But why ask the questions you do( most of which are good questions) and then not listen to the points people make in responce and ignore the main points of there posts.

But where is the proof...these statements are all peoples presumptions. The fact that someone thinks City against Wigan in the Premier League will attract 20,000+ is preposterious, on a regular basis.

I'm not against a new Stadium. I'd prefer AG to be revamped, but if AV happens so be it.

But the fact remains. SL has come out with a plan, said we need such and such to progress, and everyone it seems, has bowed down and taken it for granted. Give me facts and figures to prove fans will come and that we need a new stadium to progress. Unless you can't, then we are just taking someones word for granted. Lemmings come to mind...

[BCAGFC]

But where is the proof...these statements are all peoples presumptions. The fact that someone thinks City against Wigan in the Premier League will attract 20,000+ is preposterious, on a regular basis.

I'm not against a new Stadium. I'd prefer AG to be revamped, but if AV happens so be it.

But the fact remains. SL has come out with a plan, said we need such and such to progress, and everyone it seems, has bowed down and taken it for granted. Give me facts and figures to prove fans will come and that we need a new stadium to progress. Unless you can't, then we are just taking someones word for granted. Lemmings come to mind...

Well if we get 13k for a championship game against a poorly supported side then 20k IS realistic for a premier league game, especially with better facilities.

I think I can remember you saying that you were around the last time we were in Division 1 (now premier league), can you remember the coaches that arrived from all over the west country, Taunton, Bridgwater, Minehead, Ilfracombe, Gloucester, Cheltenham, the list goes on.

That would happen again on an even bigger scale, football today is a different animal to what it used to be back then and people will do almost anything to watch premier league football now.

And the presumption works BOTH ways.

BCAGFC

[spudski]

Well if we get 13k for a championship game against a poorly supported side then 20k IS realistic for a premier league game, especially with better facilities.

I think I can remember you saying that you were around the last time we were in Division 1 (now premier league), can you remember the coaches that arrived from all over the west country, Taunton, Bridgwater, Minehead, Ilfracombe, Gloucester, Cheltenham, the list goes on.

That would happen again on an even bigger scale, football today is a different animal to what it used to be back then and people will do almost anything to watch premier league football now.

And the presumption works BOTH ways.

BCAGFC

Well if we get 13k for a championship game against a poorly supported side then 20k IS realistic for a premier league game, especially with better facilities.

I think I can remember you saying that you were around the last time we were in Division 1 (now premier league), can you remember the coaches that arrived from all over the west country, Taunton, Bridgwater, Minehead, Ilfracombe, Gloucester, Cheltenham, the list goes on.

That would happen again on an even bigger scale, football today is a different animal to what it used to be back then and people will do almost anything to watch premier league football.

And the presumption works BOTH ways.

BCAGFC

Yes...I remember those days. I've spent most of my life in Bristol and watched City home and away for years. You end up in a bubble, thinking your team is bigger than it really is.

I moved up North, about 3 years ago, and watch I Premier League football on a regular basis. Either at Man Utd, Man City, Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton, Liverpool, Blackpool and from the Championship Burnley and Preston. I also go to watch Bury and FC United.

All these Clubs are within 45 mins of where i live now. It wasn't until i moved away, that i realised how small BCFC are as a Football Club, in the big picture of things.

We live in a bubble of dreams in Bristol. 40 miles from any worthy other Club. It's a joke. You read the Evening Post and watch points West, and you start believing the bullshit. Seriously...we are nothing. A blip on the map of football. We need to get realistic.

Yes...People will travel to start with, when we get a new Stadium. But like today, where fans have got used to Championship football, people will get used to a new Stadium. After 2/3 years, if we are still in the Championship, the crowd average, will still be the same as what it is now at AG. Are people going to travel in droves just because of a new stadium, playing Championship footballl, year in, year out.

[Old Dazzler]

But where is the proof...these statements are all peoples presumptions. The fact that someone thinks City against Wigan in the Premier League will attract 20,000+ is preposterious, on a regular basis.

But you cannot provide proof of anything that will happen in the future, although you actually tried to earlier when you stated that the recession was going to get worse and that WAS a fact. people can only give considered opinions of what they think will happen in the future and that's why examples suchas Hull, Reading and Cardiff are given as similar sized clubs who have increased crowds in their new grounds.

Likewise, you gave a considered opinion about the future economy based on the information at hand, but something could happen that gets us out of recession much quicker than that - probably not though - but very few predicted the credit crunch and recession.

i do agree with you about the apathy in Bristol though, but suspect the same apathy existed at the above-mentioned clubs prior to their moves.

[Jordan Tansley]

But where is the proof...these statements are all peoples presumptions. The fact that someone thinks City against Wigan in the Premier League will attract 20,000+ is preposterious, on a regular basis.

I'm not against a new Stadium. I'd prefer AG to be revamped, but if AV happens so be it.

But the fact remains. SL has come out with a plan, said we need such and such to progress, and everyone it seems, has bowed down and taken it for granted. Give me facts and figures to prove fans will come and that we need a new stadium to progress. Unless you can't, then we are just taking someones word for granted. Lemmings come to mind...

Mate, you go on about realistic expectations then demand that a simple fan wasting time on the internet produce proof to something that has not happened yet.

Not having the expertise to produce the proof you demand, I look to the only person with those expertise. The most successful businessman in Bristol and the man willing to put hundreds of millions of pounds worth of investment into the club, and the Idea of the stadium.

Clearly if someone who makes as many good decisions as Steve Lansdown has decided to invest anything up to £100m in a stadium project then he clearly knows it's more likely to work for us than not. He's not just decided, "I want a stadium, I can afford it... screw it." He's not taken the decision lightly.

The thing is mate, you say that everything that doesn't agree with your agenda is unfounded, yet you have nothing to back up anything you say either. As BCAGFC say's, it works both ways.

The only fact you need to see is, We're almost £30m in debt, and we lose a million pounds a year on the current excuse for a stadium. AV will be a profit making entity within the club. on that basis alone it's a viable project.

I've no idea what you and NickJ amongst others have against Steve, are you all bum buddies with Scott Davidson?

I am not a lemming for having faith that the man in charge of my club, a man who has earned my trust, has made a decision he believes will be for the betterment of my club.