Coaching And Scouting Staff...

[spudski]

...are they good enough at this level?

I look at our present staff and previous, and think to myself...'What can they bring to this Club, at this level, or to progress higher?'

What level have they played at? Who have they learn't their trade under? What do they bring to the Club? Are they good enough? What level of experience at a higher level do they have?

If you research each individual we have, it doesn't make inspireing reading...all imho of course.

[Jordan Tansley]

Do you know what spudski, I agree with you! I had this debate with andy recently and you have to say we seem to have a "jobs for the boys" mentality! Alan Walsh, Stuart naylor, scotty Murray and before them Millen and Taylor!

I don't know anything about their coaching abilities but you have to ask the question as to whether these people would be employed by any other championship club?

Sometimes I think we could do with a few new faces in training? A bit more experience in the coaching department?

[Ron]

You may have a point, but level played is little consideration in a good manager/coach.

[spudski]

I agree...playing at a higher level doesn't always mean anything. The likes of Keegan, Keane, Robson and the like walked into Managers jobs at a higher level without much 'coaching' experience.

However...we have neither. Our coaching staff have played at relatively lower levels, or if higher, like Wigley and Lee, was many moons ago and not anything prolific.

The rest have all played at lower level and learnt there trade from Managers and Coaches that are no great shakes. There are a few minor exceptions, but all in all, over the years i personally think we have been very poor in this department.

A time for a big shake up?

[Robbored]

Typical isn't it?

City are having a difficult season on the back of the disruption of Coppell's departure,the loss of Maynard through injury and Hartley heading back home.

Millen has come in for some OTT critism to the point of someone posting that he should be replaced 'because he lacks charisma' and that his job should go to Tisdale who has even less experience of the Championship than Millen does. Ridiculous.

Now its the coaching staff who are coming in for critism. Someone asked 'what can Stuart Naylor coach David James?'. Well, what goalkeeping coach anywhere could reach DJ anything? Someone else mentioned 'jobs for the boys'. Once again is Wigley 'one of the boys?'

Some fans seem to completely overlook that the current City squad is simply not strong enough and is the main reason that City are having such a tough season. Just ask yourself how many City players would get into the QPR or even Cardiff teams? One maybe.

Millen has very limited player resources and keeping us in the Championship is the best we can hope for this season. Should he achieve that then he will have done a decent job imo and look to improve the squad over the summer. With around 10 players being out of contract by then his job will be that much easier.

[Fiale]

As long as they have their coaching badges I am not sure that level played matter (those that can do and those that can't teach). I think that when players are seeing out their careers and have proven to fit well into a club and it's setup then qualifying them as coaches to keep them is a good idea. The problem seems our lack of player progression. Maybe it's just me but we have nearly the whole South West to get talent from, surely even a handful of 10-11 year olds can be coached into being solid players (not great, outstanding, but able to just be a skeleton of a team to add more talented players into).... we should maybe re-evaluate what we are doing, as we do not really seem to be doing this.

[Tales From The Front]

Typical isn't it?

City are having a difficult season on the back of the disruption of Coppell's departure,the loss of Maynard through injury and Hartley heading back home.

Millen has come in for some OTT critism to the point of someone posting that he should be replaced 'because he lacks charisma' and that his job should go to Tisdale who has even less experience of the Championship than Millen does. Ridiculous.

Now its the coaching staff who are coming in for critism. Someone asked 'what can Stuart Naylor coach David James?'. Well, what goalkeeping coach anywhere could reach DJ anything? Someone else mentioned 'jobs for the boys'. Once again is Wigley 'one of the boys?'

Some fans seem to completely overlook that the current City squad is simply not strong enough and is the main reason that City are having such a tough season. Just ask yourself how many City players would get into the QPR or even Cardiff teams? One maybe.

Millen has very limited player resources and keeping us in the Championship is the best we can hope for this season. Should he achieve that then he will have done a decent job imo and look to improve the squad over the summer. With around 10 players being out of contract by then his job will be that much easier.

Not typical at all I would suggest...refreshingly critical, you should try it....but of course you have havn't you...this time last year you were posting the very same were you not?

City's recruitmnet policy has in the main been poor for three years now, with some very notibale exceptions, the losses we have incurred as has been stated publicy has been invested to keep the club competing at Championship level.....you quite rightly comment that not many would get in the top teams in the division....so based on this asumption where does not buck stop, the money has been made available time and time again. As far as I'm concerened the only blame that rest with the chairman is the football staff appointments, in all most every other regardh is willingness to invest in our football club is beyound reproach.

Coaching and scouting MUST improve.

[Robbored]

""As far as I'm concerened the only blame that rest with the chairman is the football staff appointments, in all most every other regardh is willingness to invest in our football club is beyound reproach.

Coaching and scouting MUST improve""

The point, which I obviously didn't make clear enough is that because City are having a tough season some fans look to find the reason why.

Firstly Millen gets the flak and then the coaching staff. Now you mention the chairman as well. The point I was trying to make is that few fans actually look at the players in the same critical light and imo the vast majority are simply not good enough.

Millen is doing a good job given the limited player resources he has.

[john shaws hair]

The point, which I obviously didn't make clear enough is that because City are having a tough season some fans look to find the reason why.

Firstly Millen gets the flak and then the coaching staff. Now you mention the chairman as well. The point I was trying to make is that few fans actually look at the players in the same critical light and imo the vast majority are simply not good enough.

Millen is doing a good job given the limited player resources he has.

or is it that us as fans are way to fickle and have ideas above are station????

[Esmond Million's Bung]

""As far as I'm concerened the only blame that rest with the chairman is the football staff appointments, in all most every other regardh is willingness to invest in our football club is beyound reproach.

Coaching and scouting MUST improve""

The point, which I obviously didn't make clear enough is that because City are having a tough season some fans look to find the reason why.

Firstly Millen gets the flak and then the coaching staff. Now you mention the chairman as well. The point I was trying to make is that few fans actually look at the players in the same critical light and imo the vast majority are simply not good enough.

Millen is doing a good job given the limited player resources he has.

There can be no denying that the squad, the Coppell fiasco and injuries have all caused us undue problems in a season that promised so much, but the it is also undeniable that the coaching has been failing at the club for the past 3 years for whatever reason and Millen has been part of that and it does need to be questioned and not swept under the carpet because it is valid whatever you think, also the quality coming out of the academy is poor and serious questions need to be asked in that direction also, all of these things add to our current woes, it saddens me when most of our rivals have one or two youngsters who play a part in their teams season where as our youngsters sit on the bench to make up the numbers and quite a few of those will be gone in the summer.

[Tales From The Front]

[The point, which I obviously didn't make clear enough is that because City are having a tough season some fans look to find the reason why.

Firstly Millen gets the flak and then the coaching staff. Now you mention the chairman as well. The point I was trying to make is that few fans actually look at the players in the same critical light and imo the vast majority are simply not good enough.

Millen is doing a good job given the limited player resources he has.

or is it that us as fans are way to fickle and have ideas above are station????

[Andy082005]

Typical isn't it?

City are having a difficult season on the back of the disruption of Coppell's departure,the loss of Maynard through injury and Hartley heading back home.

Millen has come in for some OTT critism to the point of someone posting that he should be replaced 'because he lacks charisma' and that his job should go to Tisdale who has even less experience of the Championship than Millen does. Ridiculous.

Now its the coaching staff who are coming in for critism. Someone asked 'what can Stuart Naylor coach David James?'. Well, what goalkeeping coach anywhere could reach DJ anything? Someone else mentioned 'jobs for the boys'. Once again is Wigley 'one of the boys?'

Some fans seem to completely overlook that the current City squad is simply not strong enough and is the main reason that City are having such a tough season. Just ask yourself how many City players would get into the QPR or even Cardiff teams? One maybe.

Millen has very limited player resources and keeping us in the Championship is the best we can hope for this season. Should he achieve that then he will have done a decent job imo and look to improve the squad over the summer. With around 10 players being out of contract by then his job will be that much easier.

Well as it appears that the quotes you have quoted, are mine....Ill reply.

I posted on here, over 12/18 months ago about our staff behind the scenes. This club does have a "jobs for the boys" mentality, Im just waiting to see what job they give Louis Carey when he finally retires.

I agree with you about the squad not being strong enough, but the point ive made in the past, are the players that we bring in that start really well and shows lots of potential, eventually just go stale. Fontaine, Elliott, Haynes......3 prime examples. The amount of players that have come and gone in recent years is unreal, and apart from Maynard, not ONE has ever improved and looked like kicking on. Not one!! Now....the problem lies in one of two places (or both?), either the coaching isnt good enough......or the scouting network isnt good enough?

The saying I always liked is "evolution, not revolution". This club never evolved after we got into the Championship, we had one amazing season where we exceeded all expectations but then its almost as if we thought "right, weve cracked it" Other clubs around us evolved, and continue to evolve.....yet we have just gone stale, ran out of ideas and are now going backwards at an incredible speed.

As I said on another thread, I dont understand how people (Millen and the staff), can be expected to solve a problem that they were part of.

[Martyn Hocking]

Millen has come in for some OTT critism to the point of someone posting that he should be replaced 'because he lacks charisma' and that his job should go to Tisdale who has even less experience of the Championship than Millen does. Ridiculous.

If you are talking about me Robbo you are completely misquoting me - I said the other day that he is not a natural leader and has zero charisma. I didn't say he should be sacked and certainly didn't say he should be replaced by Tisdale.

His complete lack of charisma is a major problem - it's one of the reasons fans (on here and elsewhere) feel so negative this season. He cannot talk the talk in public, simple as that. Whether or not he can on the training ground or in the dressing ground only the players know, but they are hardly tearing up trees for him at present are they?

I don't think we can sack him now - it's too late for a new boss to use the transfer window - but when he goes, we need someone with a lot more experience of managing at this level (or in the Prem). The Championship is no place for beginners.

[Robbored]

""I agree we need to be realistic and patient but the same issues concering squad imbalance and goal scoring problems are not new, they have been on the top of the agenda for at least two seasons now, that must be the concern""

Of course its a concern and Millen obviously knows that but he's had no opportunity untill this window to address the problems. Add to that the fact that most managers hate the January window because other clubs understandably want maximise whatever income they can get and tend to inflate their prices.

The problems are very well established and Millen won't be able to much about them untill the summer. Untill then he'll be addressing the immediate issue of keeping City in the Championship.

[Robbored]

""If you are talking about me Robbo you are completely misquoting me - I said the other day that he is not a natural leader and has zero charisma. I didn't say he should be sacked and certainly didn't say he should be replaced by Tisdale""

To be honest I couldn't remember who said what!

[bristolcitysweden]

""I agree we need to be realistic and patient but the same issues concering squad imbalance and goal scoring problems are not new, they have been on the top of the agenda for at least two seasons now, that must be the concern""

Of course its a concern and Millen obviously knows that but he's had no opportunity untill this window to address the problems. Add to that the fact that most managers hate the January window because other clubs understandably want maximise whatever income they can get and tend to inflate their prices.

The problems are very well established and Millen won't be able to much about them untill the summer. Untill then he'll be addressing the immediate issue of keeping City in the Championship.

Agree. For me the Monday meeting over the village green claim is a bigger issue than the window closing. I rather have quality on loan than crap signed just for the sake of it.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

""I agree we need to be realistic and patient but the same issues concering squad imbalance and goal scoring problems are not new, they have been on the top of the agenda for at least two seasons now, that must be the concern""

Of course its a concern and Millen obviously knows that but he's had no opportunity untill this window to address the problems. Add to that the fact that most managers hate the January window because other clubs understandably want maximise whatever income they can get and tend to inflate their prices.

The problems are very well established and Millen won't be able to much about them untill the summer. Untill then he'll be addressing the immediate issue of keeping City in the Championship.

Given our present striker situation, do you believe we have enough fire power or creativity to actually make it to the summer with our championship status in tact?, I for one think it will be touch and go and that is called Russian roulette.

[numbeast]

I don't think the level a coach has played at has much bearing on their ability to do their job. That said I do feel when we go through a tough time generally the manager and occasionally the players ability gets questioned but no mention of the support coaching staff arises. Many people have questioned the suitablity of the academy coaching staff due to the lack of youngsters being produced for the first team but the first team coaches seem to be invisible. On the point regarding David James, a coach can identify areas that the player need to concentrate on. This could be due to bad habits picked up over the course of a career or the like. As for the scouting issue, as I've said on another thread, we need to invest in a more comprehensive scouting network to pick up youngsters with the right potential and to unearth gems at lower league levels as well as players from abroad. Our track record for signings in general and foreign players in particular has been fairly poor and this must be put down to the poor scouting arrangments we have in place. The original post is food for thought and as such when results go against us perhaps we should look at the whole rather than berating just the manager or players. Perhaps new faces behind the scenes could have as dramatic an effect on our fortunes as buying new players or sacking the manager.

[fka dagest]

At this juncture could I just remind all posters that Robbored is always right.

Ouch! That's 6-1 now

[Maesknoll Red]

As long as they have their coaching badges I am not sure that level played matter (those that can do and those that can't teach). I think that when players are seeing out their careers and have proven to fit well into a club and it's setup then qualifying them as coaches to keep them is a good idea. The problem seems our lack of player progression. Maybe it's just me but we have nearly the whole South West to get talent from, surely even a handful of 10-11 year olds can be coached into being solid players (not great, outstanding, but able to just be a skeleton of a team to add more talented players into).... we should maybe re-evaluate what we are doing, as we do not really seem to be doing this.

Southampton's successful academy, with it's satellite at Bath, effectively takes players that would come to us.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/28/southampton-alex-oxlade-chamberlain

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I don't think the level a coach has played at has much bearing on their ability to do their job. That said I do feel when we go through a tough time generally the manager and occasionally the players ability gets questioned but no mention of the support coaching staff arises. Many people have questioned the suitablity of the academy coaching staff due to the lack of youngsters being produced for the first team but the first team coaches seem to be invisible. On the point regarding David James, a coach can identify areas that the player need to concentrate on. This could be due to bad habits picked up over the course of a career or the like. As for the scouting issue, as I've said on another thread, we need to invest in a more comprehensive scouting network to pick up youngsters with the right potential and to unearth gems at lower league levels as well as players from abroad. Our track record for signings in general and foreign players in particular has been fairly poor and this must be put down to the poor scouting arrangments we have in place. The original post is food for thought and as such when results go against us perhaps we should look at the whole rather than berating just the manager or players. Perhaps new faces behind the scenes could have as dramatic an effect on our fortunes as buying new players or sacking the manager.

Very true about the professional level a coach has reached it makes no difference, it's about making average and good players better, it's about eliminating constant mistakes, it's about identifying moments in a game where the wrong option was taken and it's about explaining the tactics for each game and for dealing with certain individual opponents and clearly over the past 3 years something has gone wrong, mainly with the defence.

it is also quite important not to completely stifle individuality which is another problem that actually seems to be being addressed to some degree this season, not all doom and gloom with the coaching, but the coaching of our defence is not consistent enough.

[john shaws hair]

Southampton's successful academy, with it's satellite at Bath, effectively takes players that would come to us.

http://www.guardian....ade-chamberlain

are academy up to the age 18 has and continues to be very good so what happens between 18 to first team chance i no the reserve team games have all but stopped but they were pooh anyway ,so david(i could walk into this team any time)lees as development office aint developing a lot .i believe the academy virtualy needs a total overhaul from john clayton dwn .

[redcherryberry]

Southampton's successful academy, with it's satellite at Bath, effectively takes players that would come to us.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/28/southampton-alex-oxlade-chamberlain

My nephew was at the City academy but got released.

Was training with Southampton in Bath and now plays for their academy team and progressing very well.

Apparently everything at Soton and the way do things are top notch up to City.

No sour grapes my nephews City mad and a ST holder as are my family.

Soton are fully rooted at the Bath campus and they've picked up a few kids from ages 10-12 that was previously let go by us.

Jason Dodd came from Bath so you can see how far back they've been scouting on our patch.

[dezgimed]

Robbored can you stop quoting like a 'tard?

[Robbored]

<br />Robbored can you stop quoting like a 'tard?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

If I don't quote things is the way I have this is what happens.

Dunno if anyone else has the same problem. The drop down box top right with 'my content' is perminately down.

[john shaws hair]

My nephew was at the City academy but got released.

Was training with Southampton in Bath and now plays for their academy team and progressing very well.

Apparently everything at Soton and the way do things are top notch up to City.

No sour grapes my nephews City mad and a ST holder as are my family.

Soton are fully rooted at the Bath campus and they've picked up a few kids from ages 10-12 that was previously let go by us.

Jason Dodd came from Bath so you can see how far back they've been scouting on our patch.

i totally agree with that but what you'd have to add is city beat the saints more often than not in these fixtures across the age range but for some reason there players go on to bigger and better things so why ?

[redcherryberry]

i totally agree with that but what you'd have to add is city beat the saints more often than not in these fixtures across the age range but for some reason there players go on to bigger and better things so why ?

No idea. Every dog has their day?!

Like someone else said our youngsters seem fine up to the age of 17/18 then something goes seriously wrong.

We get it every year from John Clayton that 'player X' will make it then this player disappears.

I'm all for our Academy but personally would like too see Clayton and his team of coaches gone.

Likewise our scouts, especially at first team level. Annoys me we scout the Scottish market and end up with the likes of Clarkson for 800k while Bpool pick up Charlie Adam for what we paid for Sproule.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Dan Harding the Saints LB is having a blinder, looks like a player we could do with, I am not suggesting we sign him as he'd probably never come, but he's certainly an exciting player to watch.

[screech]

When the chairman announces at a meeting the academy is working and cites Skuse and a couple of nobodies as proof, then expect the club to continue to close its eyes and put its hands over its ears to the problem. Like the suggestion about Carey becomming a coach here, it's absolutely nailed on and that is the problem. We never spend money in the right areas, we still have a crisis in midfield, yet we look to make getting a striker in as priority. When was the last time we spent a million or 2 on a centre half or midfielder, never.

[Donald]

what level our coaches have played at doesn't matter in the slightest and is simply a stupid comment.

Example........Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger,Jose Mourino, Steve McLaren, Roy Hodgson, Neil Warnock and David Moyes,

None of them ever play at a decent level of football......done ok for themselves.

as for academy......I'll mention my views on that in the other topic.......