InCider Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Can't Dave L sort this one? No. He'll post on here that it doesn't matter, but the club has won some award for family orientated ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderPunk Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Absolutely shocking. I don't know you dafarms, but I'm actually quite angry about the way you've been treated over this. Sort it out BCFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Apparantly it is unlawful to be drunk in a public place. But, what is the definition of being drunk anyway? In public drunkenness the standard is subjective, meaning the person must be unable to care for himself, be dangerous to himself or others, be causing a disturbance, or refuse to leave or move along when requested It's not unlawful to be drunk in a public place. It's only unlawful to be "drunk and incapable of taking care of yourself", or "drunk and disorderly", of which he was neither. Consuming alcohol in public is absolutely fine unless a Police Officer asks you not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Sounds completely outrageous. Has anyone noticed that the common demominator with these problems is always the Metropolitan Police? These problems don't happen in Nottingham or Yorkshire. Always in London. The club would be really going out on a limb if it didn't ban someone. To me it's another symptom of the lack of backbone there is in this country. No rigour, no sense of fairness, just mindlessly doing something they think they 'should' do without thinking about the consequences for the person affected. It's simply the word of a copper who has probably decided to nick someone he probably thinks of as a soft target. City didn't need to remove the ticket now. They could simply have written and explained that should you be convicted, your season ticket would be revoked. That would be fair and just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Of The Dolman Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I totally agree that is guilty until proven innocent as I found out last season, is an absolute joke. I had to take a breath test when I was arrested to see if I had been drinking. I think the law in general regarding football arrests is very bad. When I was arrested the custody sergeant was happy that I had done nothing wrong and was prepared to release me only for a football liason officer to insist I was charged with a public order offence as apparently anybody arrested at football has to be automatically charged no matter what the circumstances are. It is a waste of public money, in my case after I pleaded not guilty in court within a couple of days the CPS decided to drop the charges. This was as it was not in the public interest to prosecute and all the witness statements and evidence showed I didn't have a case to answer. I was given thousands worth of legal aid out of people's taxes that I did not even need to take. However, because of the risk to my potential career I had no choice but to be absolutely sure. When I first saw a solicitor they knew straight away that there was a near certain chance I wouldn't be prosecuted and that I had done nothing wrong and as a result the CPS would intervene before it cost even more. I was banned by City as well for a month whilst it was all sorted out, the whole legal system around football needs to be looked at, there shouldn't be a blanket which everything is covered by, there should be different processes for different thing. Even the police themselves are pretty fed up of having to charge people and do all the paperwork etc when they know there is not the slightest chance of prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I totally agree that is guilty until proven innocent as I found out last season, is an absolute joke. I had to take a breath test when I was arrested to see if I had been drinking. I think the law in general regarding football arrests is very bad. When I was arrested the custody sergeant was happy that I had done nothing wrong and was prepared to release me only for a football liason officer to insist I was charged with a public order offence as apparently anybody arrested at football has to be automatically charged no matter what the circumstances are. It is a waste of public money, in my case after I pleaded not guilty in court within a couple of days the CPS decided to drop the charges. This was as it was not in the public interest to prosecute and all the witness statements and evidence showed I didn't have a case to answer. I was given thousands worth of legal aid out of people's taxes that I did not even need to take. However, because of the risk to my potential career I had no choice but to be absolutely sure. When I first saw a solicitor they knew straight away that there was a near certain chance I wouldn't be prosecuted and that I had done nothing wrong and as a result the CPS would intervene before it cost even more. I was banned by City as well for a month whilst it was all sorted out, the whole legal system around football needs to be looked at, there shouldn't be a blanket which everything is covered by, there should be different processes for different thing. Even the police themselves are pretty fed up of having to charge people and do all the paperwork etc when they know there is not the slightest chance of prosecution. Were you reimbursed for any money lost, if you were a season ticket holder at the time? As far as police decisions go, it is their choice. If you don't think a supporter has done anything wrong, then don't arrest them. Is it that hard to fathom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Of The Dolman Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 No I received no money, in the situation the police did what they thought was right without seeing the whole situation, it was only once I was at the station and they had asked what had actually happened that they realised. I don't blame the police for arresting me as if I was a policeman if I had seen what they did then I would want to get the said person out of that environment and situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 No I received no money, in the situation the police did what they thought was right without seeing the whole situation, it was only once I was at the station and they had asked what had actually happened that they realised. I don't blame the police for arresting me as if I was a policeman if I had seen what they did then I would want to get the said person out of that environment and situation. Sorry, but I think it is scandalous that you did not receive any recompensation for having to miss games through no fault of your own. Absolutely *****ing disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonwheeler Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Dafarms yet again I read this with total incredulity - What the hell is going on at Ashton??? They try and portray this image of trying to be supporter friendly (More dim wits wandering around the pitch on match days with signed balls, microphones and silly flags with NPower on them to give to little kids when the teams walk out than you can shake a stick at) then this? Someone in BCFC should come on here and explain this decision to ALL loyal season ticket holders. Might just be the cynic in me, but, do you not think that this decision just might be linked to certain people in high places and big chairs at Ashton for some unknown reason having a dislike of your Dad who I will say again is a FOREVER CITY LEGEND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted April 20, 2011 Admin Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 the club apply this ban after consultation with A & S OB, 'tis true. But one thing I would mention, somebody I know is currently banned under very similar rules. There was an incident at a game earlier this season, and on seeing the CCTV would appear to be innocent of the accused charge. During interviewing this person was told by the police that they had no intention of getting this person banned from football, but on turning up at AG8 the following fixture found his season card had been blocked ! GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Well, the clock's ticking and City have chosen to say nothing so far. Every second that ticks by is a lost opportunity to put things right, or to put events into some context. We're waiting ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Has anyone noticed that the common demominator with these problems is always the Metropolitan Police? These problems don't happen in Nottingham or Yorkshire. Clearly you've never been to Sheffield then? South Yorkshire police are a nightmare, far more 'robust' than I've witnessed anywhere else (in the UK at least). On topic, what a disappointing response from the club. I don't know the circumstances of your arrest beyond what you've written, but if it were me id be cancelling ny ticket by now. Good luck with it all; id be interested in hearing how this pans out if you'd care to share it with us in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 To be fair, what else was the club supposed to do? If you're cleared of all charges, as I imagine you will be, you'll get your season ticket back. Until then, the club have little option but to try to keep you away from the ground. I imagine that it's a condition of being allowed to play in the Football League that this approach is taken. then the club should refund him all for the games he has missed out on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 then the club should refund him all for the games he has missed out on I agree. I am just trying to see things from the club's point of view. As I've said before, the club probably have no choice in this matter, as they will need to follow the Football League's rules on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 'tis true. But one thing I would mention, somebody I know is currently banned under very similar rules. There was an incident at a game earlier this season, and on seeing the CCTV would appear to be innocent of the accused charge. During interviewing this person was told by the police that they had no intention of getting this person banned from football, but on turning up at AG8 the following fixture found his season card had been blocked ! GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT ! Yeah a mate of mine has been arrested for the Leeds incident in the Dolman stand (he didnt get arrested until the Doncaster game mind you, even though they had his name and home address?!?). He is also banned until its all sorted out. He is currently out on bail and the CPS are looking into whether they have a case against him. They actually showed him the CCTV footage, and he is doing nothing wrong. When he asked why he was arrested, the response was "because you looked aggressive" (when it all kicks off he can be seen punching the air / singing / shouting). There is no footage of him hitting anyone, or being violent towards anyone in any way To sum up our local police force, whilst he was in police custody ****il 11pm at night), they sent uniformed officers around to his home address with a warrant, to search the premises for the t-shirt he was wearing on the day of the Leeds game........the absolutely beauty of it, was he just so happened to have the t-shirt on for the Doncaster game, so was sat in a cell wearing the "offending" t-shirt whilst they searched his home. .......nice to see our tax payers money is being spent appropriately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphindevon Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 The days where people communicated by talking seem to have gone in Britain. Why couldn't the cop at Millwall just take Daframs to one side and say, "we know you've had a drink, just remember to behave, if you don't we are watching you and you will be arrested, now go and enjoy the game". Why can't Bristol City get him in for a chat see that he's not a threat and again say "you're welcome to continue coming until a court tells us you are banned from football grounds, which hopefully they never will, make sure you behave yourself in the meantime. God, if I had a ban for every time I've gone into a ground with a few drinks inside me, I'd never be allowed to set foot in a stadium again and I think that goes for a few thousand of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I agree. I am just trying to see things from the club's point of view. As I've said before, the club probably have no choice in this matter, as they will need to follow the Football League's rules on this. So where's the explanation backing this up? The more I think about this the more it bothers me. Many of us (especially at AG) enjoy a few ales before the match. From the description I've heard so far, I could be arrested at any game for being every so slightly merry. My wife enjoys a drink too, she'd better stay at home from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 The more I think about this the more it bothers me. Many of us (especially at AG) enjoy a few ales before the match. From the description I've heard so far, I could be arrested at any game for being every so slightly merry. You know that's not the case. The police don't target home fans at AG, so let's not get overly dramatic about this. We all know that the rules are different at away matches. Every police force throughout the country regard away fans with suspicion, and some forces are clearly more heavy handed than others. It's a legacy of the bad old days of the 1970s and 1980s when every fan was regarded as being a hooligan. Not saying it's right, but we all know it to be true. And, finally, there's no way that the club are going to say anything about this specific case, as they could be in contempt of court if they publicly comment on a case which is yet to come to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 All we have heard from the club lately is that 'season ticket sales are important', 'season tiocket sales will determine how much we spend on players', 'if you dont buy a season ticket you are not supporting the club', as someone else said every Friday we get an email asking us to support the club, mainly financially! Yet silence from them when a season ticket holder who is currently paying for next years ticket needs the clubs help and support Where is the community in that, community club when it suits and is good for publicity otherwise forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 You know that's not the case. The police don't target home fans at AG, so let's not get overly dramatic about this. We all know that the rules are different at away matches. Every police force throughout the country regard away fans with suspicion, and some forces are clearly more heavy handed than others. It's a legacy of the bad old days of the 1970s and 1980s when every fan was regarded as being a hooligan. Not saying it's right, but we all know it to be true. And, finally, there's no way that the club are going to say anything about this specific case, as they could be in contempt of court if they publicly comment on a case which is yet to come to court. Agreed, Especially about the legacy from the 70's... With all due respect to the original poster, the Club won't know what happened and despite everyones personal feeling towards the police; the club still have to trust their judgement otherwise they would undermine them. If a charge has been brought against you, and the club have to ban you for it, then this really is the only logical thing they can do. Unfortunately. I think it's simply bad luck on your part and would piss anyone off... But it's not the clubs fault or their prerogative to go against the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 All we have heard from the club lately is that 'season ticket sales are important', 'season tiocket sales will determine how much we spend on players', 'if you dont buy a season ticket you are not supporting the club', as someone else said every Friday we get an email asking us to support the club, mainly financially! Yet silence from them when a season ticket holder who is currently paying for next years ticket needs the clubs help and support Where is the community in that, community club when it suits and is good for publicity otherwise forget it. Has he emailed the club or DL? because if he hasnt then the point about silence is nul and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Agreed, Especially about the legacy from the 70's... With all due respect to the original poster, the Club won't know what happened and despite everyones personal feeling towards the police; the club still have to trust their judgement otherwise they would undermine them. If a charge has been brought against you, and the club have to ban you for it, then this really is the only logical thing they can do. Unfortunately. I think it's simply bad luck on your part and would piss anyone off... But it's not the clubs fault or their prerogative to go against the police. True but where is the support for this guy from the club, takes his money happily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 True but where is the support for this guy from the club, takes his money happily. With respect, what sort of support should they offer? His case is part of the legal system now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 True but where is the support for this guy from the club, takes his money happily. see post above, If he hasn't emailed and asked for support then it cannot be classed as a lack of support. I'm certain that the club do not want to see any fan banned, But the police have made the decision and it's not in the clubs duristiction to decide when they uphold the law... It sets an ugly precedent if we ignore the police on the subject of crowd control... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Agreed, Especially about the legacy from the 70's... With all due respect to the original poster, the Club won't know what happened and despite everyones personal feeling towards the police; the club still have to trust their judgement otherwise they would undermine them. If a charge has been brought against you, and the club have to ban you for it, then this really is the only logical thing they can do. Unfortunately. I think it's simply bad luck on your part and would piss anyone off... But it's not the clubs fault or their prerogative to go against the police. Unless its a condition of bail terms imposed by the courts the club do not have to impose a ban although they can if they wish impose one of their own if they see fit without any conviction. The club have taken his money, so as a matter of courtesy BCFC should explain why when no magistrate as of yet has imposed any restrictions on attending football or later punishment for any offence that may have taken place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 With respect, what sort of support should they offer? His case is part of the legal system now. I am no expert in this but maybe their current approach needs to change as they are possibly going to lose a season ticket holder, even if he is found not quilty. So some support even if it is only to say 'sorry but we are only following what the legal system dictates and as far as we are concerned you are innocent until proven quilty and any support we can provide we will' Why should he need to ask for help, why cant the club offer it first, that would be the community thing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I am no expert in this but maybe their current approach needs to change as they are possibly going to lose a season ticket holder, even if he is found not quilty. So some support even if it is only to say 'sorry but we are only following what the legal system dictates and as far as we are concerned you are innocent until proven quilty and any support we can provide we will' Why should he need to ask for help, why cant the club offer it first, that would be the community thing to do? Well maybe it has not come to their attention that this is a problem on here... Maybe the club doesn't have someone reading every word posted on an independant forum? Just speculating of course, but unless you ask for help then there is no garauntee that this situation is known about by the people who matter, ie. DL. I agree that there should be more reasoning behind it, and explaining it properly will clear up the speculation (Of which I have added to) that is caused by instances like this. Clarity is always welcome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Well maybe it has not come to their attention that this is a problem on here... Maybe the club doesn't have someone reading every word posted on an independant forum? Just speculating of course, but unless you ask for help then there is no garauntee that this situation is known about by the people who matter, ie. DL. I agree that there should be more reasoning behind it, and explaining it properly will clear up the speculation (Of which I have added to) that is caused by instances like this. Clarity is always welcome... They knew enough to stop his season ticket, maybe that was the time to offer the support/ask the questions. Maybe I am wrong, just doesn't feel right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 They knew enough to stop his season ticket, maybe that was the time to offer the support/ask the questions. Maybe I am wrong, just doesn't feel right to me. But the only reason they would have known that is by request of the police surely? Unless Dafarms went to the club and told them? I understand your view, but in instances related to crowd control all football clubs have their hands tied I would suggest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 But the only reason they would have known that is by request of the police surely? Unless Dafarms went to the club and told them? I understand your view, but in instances related to crowd control all football clubs have their hands tied I would suggest... I agree that the club have their hands tied in terms of the action they have to take, but when they got the information from the police and they stopped his season ticket what prevented them from contacting him to explain what was happening and offer some support. Dafarms would have to confirm whether they did or not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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