Luis Suarez

[Jordan Tansley]

Do you think the use of the word is acceptable on a football pitch in England then?

Wonder what this QC was playing at if it quite obviously isn't a racist word, either in context or its use where he comes from?

So he shouldn't be allowed to speak his own language?

[Kid in the Riot]

So he shouldn't be allowed to speak his own language?

Not if it is deemed by an independent panel to be inappropriate, no.

Whilst playing in English football he should abide by our rules. Simples.

[Riaz]

Jordan has no clue what racism is!

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Did the Terry incident occur before this?

If so why hasn't the England Captain and role model to all been punished in a similar manner?

[Jordan Tansley]

Not if it is deemed by an independent panel to be inappropriate, no.

Whilst playing in English football he should abide by our rules. Simples.

Utter bollocks.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Did the Terry incident occur before this?

If so why hasn't the England Captain and role model to all been punished in a similar manner?

Terry was a week later I think.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Utter bollocks.

What we should have cultural rules for foreign players?.

[Kid in the Riot]

Utter bollocks.

In Suarez's defence, part of the problem is a lack of education of what is and isn't acceptable. Something that you also appear to suffer from...

[The Bard]

Am I the only one disgusted that the best the FA can do is a measly 8 games for being found out to be a racist. What was the point of Kick it out again?

Spare us all your disgust on behalf of someone else. Evra himself said he accepted that Suarez was not a racist. Suarez has been found to be guilty of making racist comments, not of being a racist. If this finding of fact is correct then I think the punishment is about right. However, I would make 2 points about that. Firstly that finding seems to be flakey given the only evidence (according to Liverpool's statement) is Evra's account. Secondly, Evra apparently made comments to Suarez about where he was from and his ethnicity. If this is the case then I think that Evra should face charges. After all, Evra is from the first world country and Suarez from the 2nd world country.

Football in this country is looking at this through its own lens. We think we're free of racism. We're not. African countries don't like us because our FA was friendly towards Apartheid South Africa. In a very short space of time we have morphed into being vehemently anti-racist and have started lecturing the rest of the world about this. This is taken with a bucket of salt by others.

This incident happened on an English football pitch, but it was an exchange between a Frenchman of African descent and a mixed heritage Uruguayan and everyone thinks that we have the right to get on our high horse about it. We had virtually 100% white footballers up to the 60s. So did France. I've witnessed open racism at our ground this season and a lot worse in pubs around the game. I bet its the same for all 92 league clubs.

Uruguay, on the other hand is a country that has had a potent ethnic mix since its inception. The captain of their world cup winning side in 1950 was black. Suarez is clearly a mix of at least 2 different ethinicities.

If we were being honest, we would acknowledge that this is just an expression of English Football's collective guilt. We must seem like a recovering Alcoholic who has turned to god and is now lecturing others about the evils of drink.

[the1stknowle]

Am I the only one disgusted that the best the FA can do is a measly 8 games for being found out to be a racist. What was the point of Kick it out again?

But its not is it. It might be stupid but again I'll give you the example of above. If in Spain the word "mate" meant something horribly racist and then an English player on the pitch in La Liga said to a black opponent, "Tranquilo, matey", how long would you want him banned for? 8 games? Season? Rest of his career?

Not defending Suarez, just saying that if negrito is the phrase in question then it is not as, excuse the pun, black and white as some are making out. Might have been stupid but doubt it was racist.

And the idea that just cause you get found guilty by the FA of something then it's cased closed and you should be branded a racist for the rest of your days is kind of mad. 1. It's the FA, 2. What if it gets overturned on appeal 3.It's clearly a pretty grey area as the example above demonstrates and 4. Again, it's the FA.

[Oops]

Righteous indignation on the City forum? Whatever next. Jump on another bangwagon EMB, you bore me. Suarez is guilty of ignorance, not racism.

John (captain of England) Terry is a loathsome individual on many levels, but he stooped to a new low with the Anton Ferdinand incident. There is a fundamental difference between the two cases however. JT knew exactly what he was saying to Anton Ferdinand, whereas Suarez used a word that can be interpreted in more than one context, depending on your geography. Evra chose to complain (because they were beaten?) but would he have complained if the comment had been made by a Blackburn player after a 5-0 Man Utd victory? No, I don't think so.

Evra made his complaint in the heat of the moment and didn't have the balls to back down and admit it. Shame on him, shame on the FA and shame on the people who feign indignation on "football"'s behalf. I've heard blatant racism at AG, and no-one ever complained, including myself to my eternal shame, not even the stewards 5 yards away. If Suarez has an 8 match ban, Terry should never set foot on a pitch again.

If it was as blatant and indefensible as many people are making out, surely Sir Alex himself would have joined the condemnation? As yet nothing from Utd's manager. Perhaps the person who needs to take a long hard look at himself is Patrice Evra? Just a thought.

[Redhyde]

What he did and what he said is considered racist in this country, but what he said wouldn't be considered to him. He broke our laws (football) and deserves the punishment. Ignorance is not an excuse. If you read Tim Vickery's bbc blog, you'll understand that that use of language isn't a big deal in uruguay. It doesn't carry any negative connotations, and it's not offensive. So I don't really really see the outrage and bile directed to him for this. He's now no doubt educated and I assume all future south american players who come here will be too by their responsible clubs, right?

[Oops]

Professional Footballers' Association chairman Clarke Carlisle thinks the decision is "100% correct".

Selected football bansContinue reading the main story 1964: David Layne, Peter Swan and Tony Kay (life bans for betting on their team to lose, later reduced to 7 years)

1988: Paul Davis (9 matches for punching opponent)

1995: Eric Cantona (9 months for attacking supporter)

1998: Paolo di Canio (11 matches for pushing referee)

2003: Mark Bosnich (9 months for failed drugs test)

2003: Rio Ferdinand (8 months for failing to take drugs test)

2005: David Prutton (10 matches for pushing referee)

He told 5 live: "There are definitely cultural differences for a lot of players coming from South America and from the continent into England.

"But even though those differences do exist, we still expect people who come and work here to adhere to the standards and the laws of this land.

"It's wholly acceptable in parts of the Middle East to chop off the hands of thieves but we wouldn't tolerate it here and it's just the same when it comes to racism."

What a ridiculous sentence, and what a ridiculous and crass statement from the PFA chairman. I despair for the future of football in this country with imbeciles like Clark Carlisle in positions of authority. The fact that Suarez was found guilty with no independent testimony also speaks volumes. As if I wasn't fed up enough with this corrupt, morally bankrupt corporate machine that is "Football Ltd".

[TRL]

Emb, kiar you are talking absolute drivel, and don't call me dear you sniveling little oik.

Where in the "rules" of English football does it day you have to speak english? How can a qc decide he knows the interpretation of a Uruguayan dielect of spanish? He is going on hearsay from evra and whoever else may or may not have heard the comment. He/they have made a judgement on their opinion.

Already stated only Suarez will actually know if it is a racist remark. If he is a diving arse has no relevance to his charge.

[screech]

Spare us all your disgust on behalf of someone else. Evra himself said he accepted that Suarez was not a racist. Suarez has been found to be guilty of making racist comments, not of being a racist. If this finding of fact is correct then I think the punishment is about right. However, I would make 2 points about that. Firstly that finding seems to be flakey given the only evidence (according to Liverpool's statement) is Evra's account. Secondly, Evra apparently made comments to Suarez about where he was from and his ethnicity. If this is the case then I think that Evra should face charges. After all, Evra is from the first world country and Suarez from the 2nd world country.

Football in this country is looking at this through its own lens. We think we're free of racism. We're not. African countries don't like us because our FA was friendly towards Apartheid South Africa. In a very short space of time we have morphed into being vehemently anti-racist and have started lecturing the rest of the world about this. This is taken with a bucket of salt by others.

This incident happened on an English football pitch, but it was an exchange between a Frenchman of African descent and a mixed heritage Uruguayan and everyone thinks that we have the right to get on our high horse about it. We had virtually 100% white footballers up to the 60s. So did France. I've witnessed open racism at our ground this season and a lot worse in pubs around the game. I bet its the same for all 92 league clubs.

Uruguay, on the other hand is a country that has had a potent ethnic mix since its inception. The captain of their world cup winning side in 1950 was black. Suarez is clearly a mix of at least 2 different ethinicities.

If we were being honest, we would acknowledge that this is just an expression of English Football's collective guilt. We must seem like a recovering Alcoholic who has turned to god and is now lecturing others about the evils of drink.

But its not is it. It might be stupid but again I'll give you the example of above. If in Spain the word "mate" meant something horribly racist and then an English player on the pitch in La Liga said to a black opponent, "Tranquilo, matey", how long would you want him banned for? 8 games? Season? Rest of his career?

Not defending Suarez, just saying that if negrito is the phrase in question then it is not as, excuse the pun, black and white as some are making out. Might have been stupid but doubt it was racist.

And the idea that just cause you get found guilty by the FA of something then it's cased closed and you should be branded a racist for the rest of your days is kind of mad. 1. It's the FA, 2. What if it gets overturned on appeal 3.It's clearly a pretty grey area as the example above demonstrates and 4. Again, it's the FA.

He was found guilty, that's the point. The rest of it is irrelevant. A proven racist is getting 8 games as a ban, you shout negrito to a black player on Saturday, and we wont see you at a game for 3 years. Let's kick it out eh, well no apparently, because if your a rich footballer you will only get a measly fine and 8 games ban. The FA are hypocrites.

[TRL]

He was found guilty, that's the point. The rest of it is irrelevant. A proven racist is getting 8 games as a ban, you shout negrito to a black player on Saturday, and we wont see you at a game for 3 years. Let's kick it out eh, well no apparently, because if your a rich footballer you will only get a measly fine and 8 games ban. The FA are hypocrites.

So Screech, what does Negrito mean?

I haven't got a clue, I have heard a few ramblings from people on here what it means, but nothing definative.

Some say it is a term of endearment, some say it is racist, what is it? I don't know, and until the word can be defined I don;t know how a advisory board can decide. He may be the biggest racist in the world, he may not.

In English apparently it is a ethnic group from south east asia

in Spanish from every thing I have looked out it is a playful term of endearment meaning little black dude.

Now how can that be seen as racist, it is out country going crazy about a word. For christ sake, even if he used the word as it's english meaning it would be refering to an asian! How the hell can they equate what He said to Evra with its english meaning

Quite clearly the world has gone completely mad and is viewed in how the white man believes racisim.

The whole thing stinks of The FA trying to hang someone out to dry by trying to be seen to be doing the right theing, where in truth they just haven't got a bloody clue.

[TRL]

Some context to this issue if you want to read. Make of it what you will, I am not Spanish or Uruguayan. We in England make things a little too black or white without understanding other cultures or languages

This means literally "my beautiful little black (person)".

In the Spanish-speaking world, it is not generally considered rude to address people by some physical feature of theirs; in fact, it is very common:

So it's quite common to call someone who is blond "hola güero",or "¡epa catire!"; someone who is heavy-set: "gordo"; "mi gordo", "gordito". Someone who has Asian features will probably be referred to as "chinito", and someone who is black, or merely dark skinned, will quite naturally be called "negro" or "negrito", as a term of endearment.

I think that to call someone "mi negrito hermoso", meaning "best friend" is a lot of nonsense, and in fact quite dangerous out of context. If you're male, and try to address your best buddy in a bar as "mi negrito hermoso", you'll probably get a fist in the face for publicly acting like a homosexual.

And if a girl addresses a casual friend like that, then this friend may think her intentions are not so casual after all.

Furthermore, it is absolutely silly to address a white, blond person as "negrito hermoso": they'd probably think you're being sarcastic!

I think this kind of expression is something that a lover may safely say to his/her dark-skinned lover, or a mother to her dark-skinned kid.

Dark-skinned, by the way, does not necessarily mean actually Afro-black. Just as long as the person is not shiny-white / blond, this may fly.

Context can make a huge difference in terms of how this is perceived, obviously.

Edit

People from Uruguay, it's something you say to a friend, not a lover. That's very different from Mexico where it means beautiful, or handsome person. In Mexico it seems to be something used to show attraction. On the other hand, in Uruguay it's a phrase or saying that is used towards a friend. It's kind of like saying good person or something like that. In Uruguay, "Negrito Hermoso" is equivalent to best friend. That's strange how different the meanings are. If anything has anything to add that would be appreciated.

So what does it mean now? How can we judge?

Crazy crazy world

[arrytheb]

. Evra chose to complain (because they were beaten?) but would he have complained if the comment had been made by a Blackburn player after a 5-0 Man Utd victory? No, I don't think so.

Uuummm, they drew 1 all so pretty irrelevant.

Evra made his complaint in the heat of the moment and didn't have the balls to back down and admit it. Shame on him, shame on the FA and shame on the people who feign indignation on "football"'s behalf.

Why the fk would he back down, he thought there was a case, the independent panel decided there was enough evidence to find him guilty. I'll repeat, why would Evra have backed down. Where is the shame on anyone other than Suarez and to an extent Liverpool.

If it was as blatant and indefensible as many people are making out, surely Sir Alex himself would have joined the condemnation? As yet nothing from Utd's manager. Perhaps the person who needs to take a long hard look at himself is Patrice Evra? Just a thought.

Both clubs were told by the FA to not make statements about it whilst the case was being looked into. Utd, as far as I've seen, have declined to make comments when asked. Liverpool have been happy to ignore the FA and make comments whenever anyone was willing to listen to them. Perhaps it Liverpool and King Kenny who need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Suarez was found guilty yet you are still defending him and (it appears) saying Evra is lying despite none of us seeing the evidence. It's strange how people believe what Liverpool have come out with.

Although if people here have seen the evidence then I apologise.

[arrytheb]

I guess the other thing I find strange is whether what he did say is a term of endearment in his native country seems a strange defence seeing as they were pretty much at each other the whole match. I play footie and if I'm having a running battle with someone I'm pretty certain I wouldn't try chat them up half way through the match.

It's a pretty trivial thing but seems a strange thing to base your defence on. "I wasn't being racist, I was trying to date him me lud"

[TRL]

I guess the other thing I find strange is whether what he did say is a term of endearment in his native country seems a strange defence seeing as they were pretty much at each other the whole match. I play footie and if I'm having a running battle with someone I'm pretty certain I wouldn't try chat them up half way through the match.

It's a pretty trivial thing but seems a strange thing to base your defence on. "I wasn't being racist, I was trying to date him me lud"

True, but you could also look at it a bit like someone further up the thread calling me dear.

Something kind of petty designed to wind you up, kind of like oh shut up little man, or grow up little man, but with the stand point of how a Uruguayan would say it to a little black man, or little fat man, or littel blond man etc etc.. I'm not sure if I am making myself clear hear, I hope you get where I am coming from with it though.

[lugger]

Suarez could be defended by misinterpretation. It is understandable that Evra could/would take offence. The FA have got to make the call and they've gone for a half way house to make it known that it is not acceptable but that perhaps confusion over the multi national league they operate could lead to this type of thing. My guess is that under appeal (no way Liverpool will let this one go) they will reduce the ban to 4 games and re-issue the rules on racism and racist remarks in the English leagues. Unless my memory fails me, I cannot remember this happening before so it is new ground. It at least serves as a reminder that issues will arise and where there is no case law (or previous circumstances) then a decision has to be made and punishment handed out. The biggest concern on hearing this outcome has to be for the current England Captain who will most certainly be banned for a considerable time as he has zero defence for his remarks, unless it was lost in translation between the different boroughs of London?!

[Kid in the Riot]

True, but you could also look at it a bit like someone further up the thread calling me dear.

Something kind of petty designed to wind you up, kind of like oh shut up little man, or grow up little man, but with the stand point of how a Uruguayan would say it to a little black man, or little fat man, or littel blond man etc etc.. I'm not sure if I am making myself clear hear, I hope you get where I am coming from with it though.

As I asked further up the thread, do you think it's acceptable to use that word as a way to describe a black footballer on an English football field?

Is it a good example to be setting?

I'll give you a clue; the answer is no.

[cheese]

True, but you could also look at it a bit like someone further up the thread calling me dear.

Something kind of petty designed to wind you up, kind of like oh shut up little man, or grow up little man, but with the stand point of how a Uruguayan would say it to a little black man, or little fat man, or littel blond man etc etc.. I'm not sure if I am making myself clear hear, I hope you get where I am coming from with it though.

So you're saying it was used in a perjorative manner then - much like the use of "dear" further up the thread. A bit like saying "You black bastard", I can use it on a good friend in a jokey manner, or I can use it as an insult. The insult is a racial slur.

[arrytheb]

True, but you could also look at it a bit like someone further up the thread calling me dear.

Something kind of petty designed to wind you up, kind of like oh shut up little man, or grow up little man, but with the stand point of how a Uruguayan would say it to a little black man, or little fat man, or littel blond man etc etc.. I'm not sure if I am making myself clear hear, I hope you get where I am coming from with it though.

No I can see where you are coming from and agree to a point. The issue for Suarez (or anyone really) is that if he was saying something to wind someone else up, with a term that could (and has) be interpreted as being racist, then he runs the risk of being punished.

On a wider point I don't agree with a defence that because something is acceptable in one country then a person shouldn't be punished in another country. Laws - in sport or police/government enforced laws - differ from country to country but you get trialled and convicted according to the laws of the country any (alleged) offence takes place in. For me anyway, a defence of 'well it's okay in the country I come from' is a pretty weak defence.

[Kid in the Riot]

On a wider point I don't agree with a defence that because something is acceptable in one country then a person shouldn't be punished in another country. Laws - in sport or police/government enforced laws - differ from country to country but you get trialled and convicted according to the laws of the country any (alleged) offence takes place in. For me anyway, a defence of 'well it's okay in the country I come from' is a pretty weak defence.

Agreed.

I was in Istanbul earlier this year and McDonalds have a Negro McFlurry. If I tried to order a Negro McFlurry at the McD's in town I'd expect to get punched.

[TRL]

Interesting point is no one from Liverpool or Man U has heard him say it, and the term used is used by all the man united players to Evra, will they all be getting 8 match bans. Or is it okay to use that term in England?

I think the charge is very ropey, and Evra on many occasions has vcalled the race card with no evidence. I just think taking the word of one guy and no evidence from any other player who was near the incident is extremely harsh.

[arrytheb]

Interesting point is no one from Liverpool or Man U has heard him say it, and the term used is used by all the man united players to Evra, will they all be getting 8 match bans. Or is it okay to use that term in England?

I think the charge is very ropey, and Evra on many occasions has vcalled the race card with no evidence. I just think taking the word of one guy and no evidence from any other player who was near the incident is extremely harsh.

Except as yet we don't know what evidence has been presented, only that Liverpool has said there is none.

I personally think Liverpool are best of keeping there mouths closed on this until they have seen the findings, appealed and the outcome is made from that. I've no issue with clubs sticking up for their players but I think the way they have conducted themselves in all of this has, for probably the only time ever, made Utd look the more decent club in this.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Emb, kiar you are talking absolute drivel, and don't call me dear you sniveling little oik.

Where in the "rules" of English football does it day you have to speak english? How can a qc decide he knows the interpretation of a Uruguayan dielect of spanish? He is going on hearsay from evra and whoever else may or may not have heard the comment. He/they have made a judgement on their opinion.

Already stated only Suarez will actually know if it is a racist remark. If he is a diving arse has no relevance to his charge.

I haven't once suggested that ANY player has to talk English, in this case he has chosen to insult somebody in his mother tongue and he has landed himself in trouble and I really suspect that a QC hasn't decided anything arbitrarily, I suspect their has been 'expert witnesses' who have given evidence as to the derivation of the offending word, just remember the law of the land states 'ignorance of the law is no defence', it dosen't go on to say 'unless you are a highly paid footballer'.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case Suarez has a great deal to learn about football in this country and with Liverpool and especially King Kenny stroking his ego instead of educating him, perhaps the club should reflect on their role in this fiasco it has been building up ever since he arrived at Liverpool. Diving, feigning injury, kicking a player who was on the ground, giving the finger to the crowd and culminating with this.

As I said before ex Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson 2 months ago wrote an article for the daily mirror and the headline was 'Suarez diving is ruining his reputation' perhaps that might have been a good time for Liverpool to realise that he was making himself a marked man and offer him advice.

[Super]

What are the odds on Patrice Evra being "injured" for his next trip to Anfield?

[Red-Robbo]

This bloke would seem to know what he's talking about http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16262537.stm