Luis Suarez

[Pezo]

I think this case is a bit less 'black and white' than some of the posters on here assume. From what I've read, the word has subtly different meanings in Latin American countries, and the context can change it from being a negative to a positive term.

I thought racism was in the eye of the person receiving the comment not the eye of the person giving them. In which case it doesn't matter how he meant it if Evra perceived it to be racist then it was racist.

[arrytheb]

This bloke would seem to know what he's talking about http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/16262537.stm

I read the original version of that before the hearing was concluded, and heard him speak on the radio last night and think he is missing the point. He kept going on about black players playing in Uruguay long before most other countries and the fact that when the English bloke ran FIFA he could be looked upon as being racist. That may be the case but that is also about as relevant as my thoughts on Einstein's theory of relativity.

No one is disputing that we as a nation were viewed as being racist in the past. No one is accusing Uruguay as a nation of being racist either in the past or the present. All that is irrelevant. The case was whether a person has been racist to another person. For me it's irrelevant because Suarez must, must be intelligent enough to realise that what he said to a black person could be considered racist. He ran the risk and has been punished.

[Nibor]

Liverpool whinging about the length of ban is irrelevant. The only question here is whether he actually said it.

If he did, an 8 game ban is fine provided that level of punishment is applied consistently. (Hi John Terry)

If Liverpool's case is that he didn't say it and Evra's lying, then it ought to be a simple call as to whether or not there is proof.

If their case is that he did say it but didn't mean it with racist intent, tough shit. Ignorance is not an acceptable excuse even if you are from another culture.

Liverpool seem to be questioning the evidence the verdict is based on, and none of us have seen it, so there's little point commenting on that aspect.

I guess an appeal will happen, it will be interesting to see if they contest the decision or the length of the ban itself.

[Pederho ll]

Who were the people on the panel? Anybody know?

[arrytheb]

Who were the people on the panel? Anybody know?

PAUL GOULDING QC (chairman): Works at the same Blackstone chambers as the barrister who was successful in representing the FA in Wayne Rooney's Euro appeal. Qualified FA coach who appeared for Jean Tigana in his successful £2million-plus claim following his sacking as Fulham boss.

BRIAN JONES: Chairman of Sheffield and Hallamshire FA, who wrote to county members six months ago stressing need to fight discrimination.

DENIS SMITH: Ex-Stoke defender who managed York, Sunderland and Oxford United. Now mentor at Stoke academy.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2076452/Luis-Suarez-given-match-ban-race-row.html#ixzz1hAHnjx4P

[Will Rollason]

Evidence.

I seem to remember Evra maintaining that the incident or incidents are on camera and Suarez can be quite clearly seen to say this word or phrase "many times".

IF this is the case and can be proven, lip reader?, it then becomes a matter of intent and interpretation. As others have pointed out its hardly likely that Suarez was being friendly but was he being racist, as per our European outlook ??

I've played enough footie to know that some people if they find a weakness will exploit it and some times you can have a running verbal battle with someone throughout a game. I would imagine that either Suarez was doing just this to Evra but his idea of a wind up has blown up in his face or he's a racist monster of duplicity and should be jailed .... mmmmm i doubt he's that bright either.

John Terry though... sorry ... fail.... rest of season ban if proved.

[herman]

foreign player, no evidence except one contradicted claim = 8 game ban

england caption, tv evidence, police involvement = nothing done

and people say its FIFA thats corrupt...?

[Pederho ll]

PAUL GOULDING QC (chairman): Works at the same Blackstone chambers as the barrister who was successful in representing the FA in Wayne Rooney's Euro appeal. Qualified FA coach who appeared for Jean Tigana in his successful £2million-plus claim following his sacking as Fulham boss.

BRIAN JONES: Chairman of Sheffield and Hallamshire FA, who wrote to county members six months ago stressing need to fight discrimination.

DENIS SMITH: Ex-Stoke defender who managed York, Sunderland and Oxford United. Now mentor at Stoke academy.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2076452/Luis-Suarez-given-match-ban-race-row.html#ixzz1hAHnjx4P

Thanks arrytheb.

Is there not an argument that due to the diverse professional footballing community within the football leagues, a diverse panel should be utilised representing differing nationalities and cultures?

[arrytheb]

foreign player, no evidence except one contradicted claim = 8 game ban

england caption, tv evidence, police involvement = nothing done

and people say its FIFA thats corrupt...?

Or.....

Foreign player, evidence has been looked at independently and has been found guilty

England captain, case is still being dealt with by the police and CPS so the FA need to wait until that is concluded.

Can I just point out tho that the two cases are not linked so comparisons between the two are pointless.

[Red-Robbo]

I read the original version of that before the hearing was concluded, and heard him speak on the radio last night and think he is missing the point. He kept going on about black players playing in Uruguay long before most other countries and the fact that when the English bloke ran FIFA he could be looked upon as being racist. That may be the case but that is also about as relevant as my thoughts on Einstein's theory of relativity.

No one is disputing that we as a nation were viewed as being racist in the past. No one is accusing Uruguay as a nation of being racist either in the past or the present. All that is irrelevant. The case was whether a person has been racist to another person. For me it's irrelevant because Suarez must, must be intelligent enough to realise that what he said to a black person could be considered racist. He ran the risk and has been punished.

Not sure you read to the end, Arry. Vickery says:

"The English FA has now left itself open to the same accusation of cynicism. What Suarez is alleged to have done is wrong. To draw attention to the colour of someone's skin in a manner that could be construed as pejorative is not acceptable in our reality.

There is a clear case for punishment as part of a process of education. But the eight-game ban would seem to go much further."

In a game where players can make career-ending challenges and escape with three match bans, eight games for uttering something that it seems clear is not considered an insult in his native land is disproportianate and is designed to say: "Hey, how right-on we all are at the FA!"

[arrytheb]

Not sure you read to the end, Arry. Vickery says:

To be honest I didn't that time as I - wrongly - assumed it would be the same as previous but fair enough.

I still think he is missing the point tho when he brings up the history of the nations.

EDIT: I also agree about your point on punishments of foul play etc but I guess that is a whole other discussion to be had!!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

PAUL GOULDING QC (chairman): Works at the same Blackstone chambers as the barrister who was successful in representing the FA in Wayne Rooney's Euro appeal. Qualified FA coach who appeared for Jean Tigana in his successful £2million-plus claim following his sacking as Fulham boss.

BRIAN JONES: Chairman of Sheffield and Hallamshire FA, who wrote to county members six months ago stressing need to fight discrimination.

DENIS SMITH: Ex-Stoke defender who managed York, Sunderland and Oxford United. Now mentor at Stoke academy.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1hAHnjx4P

Denis Smith also ex BCFC manager.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Evidence.

I seem to remember Evra maintaining that the incident or incidents are on camera and Suarez can be quite clearly seen to say this word or phrase "many times".

IF this is the case and can be proven, lip reader?, it then becomes a matter of intent and interpretation. As others have pointed out its hardly likely that Suarez was being friendly but was he being racist, as per our European outlook ??

I've played enough footie to know that some people if they find a weakness will exploit it and some times you can have a running verbal battle with someone throughout a game. I would imagine that either Suarez was doing just this to Evra but his idea of a wind up has blown up in his face or he's a racist monster of duplicity and should be jailed .... mmmmm i doubt he's that bright either.

John Terry though... sorry ... fail.... rest of season ban if proved.

and is probably where this particular misdeamour lies. if true and Suarez repeated the word on many occasions and especially if Evra had told him he was not happy with it, Suarez cannot hide behind culturalism, he should have shut the **** up.

[lifelong]

The bottom line is that those who have a love in with Liverpool think he`s innocent and those who don`t don`t. I suspect neither really have any idea about the evidence or care that much.

Over the years Liverpool have got away with a lot as all the big clubs do. if he has been found guilty the club should come out and express their regret and take their medicine, not carry on proclaiming his innocence it shows them in a poor light and in effect they are condoning racism.

What i don`t understand is that if he made this commnet but didn`t know it was offensive then surely the club are at fault and should be punished.

For the record I have only one club and no sympathy for the overpaid pre madonna egos of the premier league.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The bottom line is that those who have a love in with Liverpool think he`s innocent and those who don`t don`t. I suspect neither really have any idea about the evidence or care that much.

Over the years Liverpool have got away with a lot as all the big clubs do. if he has been found guilty the club should come out and express their regret and take their medicine, not carry on proclaiming his innocence it shows them in a poor light and in effect they are condoning racism.

What i don`t understand is that if he made this commnet but didn`t know it was offensive then surely the club are at fault and should be punished.

For the record I have only one club and no sympathy for the overpaid pre madonna egos of the premier league.

Agree totally and Gordon Taylor chairman of the PFA, has today said that hiding behind cultural differences is no defence whatsoever, he also intimated that Liverpool should have 'educated' him far better, he also seems ok with the punishment meted out, I would expect that he is actually in full possession of the facts and evidence produced at the hearing. of course Taylor could also be part of the anti Liverpool/Suarez conspiracy.

[Spud55]

The only issue I have with this is that in my eyes Suarez isn't being punished at all. Weather he's a fascist or not, a 40k fine and an 8 game ban is nothing and the only people being punished with that are Liverpool, and it's hardly their fault Suarez did this.

I'd like to see the fa take a policy similar to that of the NFL, which gives them the power to suspend players without pay, Ndomakong Suh who plays for the detroit lions got done for stamping on a packers player, so he was suspended without pay for two games, costing him about $250,000, during which time he isn't allowed to train with his team, he's properly suspended for 2 weeks. That is far more of a disincentive to not be a **** than a puddly little fine and a longer ban.

[the1stknowle]

He was found guilty, that's the point. The rest of it is irrelevant. A proven racist is getting 8 games as a ban, you shout negrito to a black player on Saturday, and we wont see you at a game for 3 years. Let's kick it out eh, well no apparently, because if your a rich footballer you will only get a measly fine and 8 games ban. The FA are hypocrites.

What? If you're found guilty then right-minded people can just ignore the facts of the case and focus only and the verdict and happily accept it? You surely dont believe that. Firstly, all justice makes mistakes. Secondly, the facts of the case are now published, there is video of the incident and on the offending word (if not the amount of times it was used) there is agreement.

So it is a case of understanding the two sides, which are now both public, and deciding. Just because the FA decided on the facts of the case doesnt mean we should then ignore what we know.

Clearly its not as simple as "he's guilty of racism". Or if John Terry is found guilty should he be given exactly the same punishment because it is the same offense despite that being pretty clear that he was just being a racist p****?

And in my example I assume you want the English player in La Liga branded a racist and banned for a season for using the word "matey".

I agree it was ignorant, stupid and maybe if we knew what was going on in Suarez head we could say it was racist. But the word is a SPANISH word that happens to sound a little like an English word that is racist. He didnt racially abuse anyone.

[CiderHider]

Have the FA release the notes? Seem slike he admitted calling him *****, but didn't think it was racist maybe?

I don't know, until we see exactly what the Fa saw its hard to start throwing around accusations, but Suarez does seem to be a bit of a peen to me.

[TRL]

What? If you're found guilty then right-minded people can just ignore the facts of the case and focus only and the verdict and happily accept it? You surely dont believe that. Firstly, all justice makes mistakes. Secondly, the facts of the case are now published, there is video of the incident and on the offending word (if not the amount of times it was used) there is agreement.

So it is a case of understanding the two sides, which are now both public, and deciding. Just because the FA decided on the facts of the case doesnt mean we should then ignore what we know.

Clearly its not as simple as "he's guilty of racism". Or if John Terry is found guilty should he be given exactly the same punishment because it is the same offense despite that being pretty clear that he was just being a racist p****?

And in my example I assume you want the English player in La Liga branded a racist and banned for a season for using the word "matey".

I agree it was ignorant, stupid and maybe if we knew what was going on in Suarez head we could say it was racist. But the word is a SPANISH word that happens to sound a little like an English word that is racist. He didnt racially abuse anyone.

Exactly

And forgive me for pointing out Gordon Taylor putting the blame on the club for not educating the player, Hey Mr Taylor, what was your great union doing? Surely you should be educating foriegn players what can or cannot be said.

Of course you will have to find out every single connitation for evey single word that could be asumed to be racist for every country in the world, then try and work out when translated into english if it is racist, or if it has racist undertones, then you will have to break down the use of the word for local dialects.

This so call racist abuse has to be seen for what it is, you cannot have a one size fits all solution to the problem, because as we are seeing now, it opens up a hornets nest. Those who believe he said something racist, those like me who think it could be interpreted both ways, but think on this occasion it probably wasn't racist, and those that think it definately isn't racist.

Do we have to build a list of acceptable words that can or cannot be used in society for every language? If so I feel sorry for those who have to collate the book

[Snufflelufagus]

PAUL GOULDING QC (chairman): Works at the same Blackstone chambers as the barrister who was successful in representing the FA in Wayne Rooney's Euro appeal. Qualified FA coach who appeared for Jean Tigana in his successful £2million-plus claim following his sacking as Fulham boss.

BRIAN JONES: Chairman of Sheffield and Hallamshire FA, who wrote to county members six months ago stressing need to fight discrimination.

DENIS SMITH: Ex-Stoke defender who managed York, Sunderland and Oxford United. Now mentor at Stoke academy. And Bristol City?

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1hAHnjx4P

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Exactly

And forgive me for pointing out Gordon Taylor putting the blame on the club for not educating the player, Hey Mr Taylor, what was your great union doing? Surely you should be educating foriegn players what can or cannot be said.

Of course you will have to find out every single connitation for evey single word that could be asumed to be racist for every country in the world, then try and work out when translated into english if it is racist, or if it has racist undertones, then you will have to break down the use of the word for local dialects.

This so call racist abuse has to be seen for what it is, you cannot have a one size fits all solution to the problem, because as we are seeing now, it opens up a hornets nest. Those who believe he said something racist, those like me who think it could be interpreted both ways, but think on this occasion it probably wasn't racist, and those that think it definately isn't racist.

Do we have to build a list of acceptable words that can or cannot be used in society for every language? If so I feel sorry for those who have to collate the book

The problem is our dear little overpaid pussies in the prem are only interested in contacting the PFA when either somebody says "you can't do that", "you have to do this", "warm up your going on" or somebody tries take their toys away like more than 2 weeks wages.

As I said before I suspect that this almost certainly doesn't surround what Suarez has said in isolation, I suspect it's more about the amount of times he said it, especially if Evra complained. The other problem is Suarez has made himself a very easy target, something his club could have and should have met that head on instead of feeding his ego, that only gives him the idea what he is doing is acceptable.

[arrytheb]

It also makes me squirm the way that the FA sit on their high horse and try to lecture the rest of the world on how to behave when the last English FIFA president, Stanley Rouse, could be said to fit fairly and squarely into the term racist by supporting apartheid in South Africa and doing absolutely nothing for the rest of the African contintent in terms of bringing it onto the world stage whilst repeatedly trying to get South Africa into the fold. Havelange and Blatter have to be commended for doing so much in that respect. Our FIFA presidency divided the world and it's not been forgotten even after 30+ years.

But what happened 30+ years ago is irrelevant is it not? If that was the case we will never be able to move forward as a nation - in football terms I'm talking - we may as well let racism continue. Should the FA not be applauded for changing it's ways and opinions rather than be hit over the head with a metaphorical brush?

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the decision from the independent panel it has nothing to do with Stanley Rouse or past history. IMO of course.

[Kid in the Riot]

Terry is in massive trouble: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16284813

Could see him banned for the rest of the season to be honest. What a shambles, racially abusing your long-time England centre-back partner's, brother...

[SecretSam]

If he did say something r**ist, then he's got what he deserved

Let's hope that lumping d1ck Terry gets the same treatment, the meat-headed tw*t, what an embarrassment, as a player and a person

[lifelong]

Not suprised, he is a neanderthol. I hope he is finally stripped of the England captaincy, having someone like him in that role must have Bobby Moore RIP spinning in his grave.

[TRL]

Not suprised, he is a neanderthol. I hope he is finally stripped of the England captaincy, having someone like him in that role must have Bobby Moore RIP spinning in his grave.

Him and his whole family are a bunch of idiots, but if he get proved innocent, then I guess the FA cannot charge him either.

Will be interesting to see the outcome of it because his defence is a bit inconclusive if the cameras did not pick up what he is reportedly basing his defence on.

And it will also be interesting to see how many of his fellow pros who were on th epitch get called before the jury, or if they will all go quiet.

[mercury]

Not suprised, he is a neanderthol. I hope he is finally stripped of the England captaincy, having someone like him in that role must have Bobby Moore RIP spinning in his grave.

The John Terry case is a whole new can of worms, with the innitial complaint being made by a member of the public and not by Ferdinand I believe.

Some players are already covering there mouths now when talking to each other, I wonder where this will all end.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I think that could apply to just about anyone on here as most people (including me) are confused about it. Some hashed and devisive law making doesn't help.

It seems to me that In recent times the term racist appears to have replaced the term bigot. I know loads of bigots but I have yet to meet an actual racist - I've read what they have to say and listened to their bile, but never actually met one (and wouldn't want to) and never read anything on here which resembles one in my opinion.

As for Suarez, I have absolutely no idea who said what, but to lable someone a racist for allegedly calling someone a derogatory name which may constitute a racist remark, and which may be an isolated incident, is absurd - as is an 8 game ban and 40k fine which is way to excessive in my opinion, and should be appealed to the highest level.

It also makes me squirm the way that the FA sit on their high horse and try to lecture the rest of the world on how to behave when the last English FIFA president, Stanley Rouse, could be said to fit fairly and squarely into the term racist by supporting apartheid in South Africa and doing absolutely nothing for the rest of the African contintent in terms of bringing it onto the world stage whilst repeatedly trying to get South Africa into the fold. Havelange and Blatter have to be commended for doing so much in that respect. Our FIFA presidency divided the world and it's not been forgotten even after 30+ years.

The sentiment and moral stand is obiously right regarding racism, the execution of it deserves the derision it gets in my opinion - that goes for the FA and the laws governing racism.

A lot of it is 'implied permission'. For instance black rappers/hip hop artists, black comedians and in films about 'street black people' the 'N' word is used in virtually every other sentence, so the implication is a black person saying the 'N' word to or about another black person is OK, obviously a white person using the 'N' word in pretty much any context is not acceptable and racist and I suspect the Suarez case falls very much into that category.

[Pederho ll]

If found guilty, won't it be a bit tricky for JT to play professional footy again?

[CiderHider]

The John Terry case is a whole new can of worms, with the innitial complaint being made by a member of the public and not by Ferdinand I believe.

Some players are already covering there mouths now when talking to each other, I wonder where this will all end.

FIFA, UEFA, the FA, the PL, SPL, The FL the PFA and the RA. Put mic's on the pitch, we do it in rugby, why not football, why is football the only sport where cromagnon man meat heads like Terry et al can get away behaving like apes?

Having said all that, maybe football is what it is because of this? Maybe this has been going on since a long time, any x pro's here care to say? Maybe Anton and Louis have broken the golden rule in blabbing their mouths off?