Atyeo_Nick Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Amazingly some of the Blades on their forum are defending him, some saying the sentence is 'harsh' and questioning the verdict. Fact is the Judge and Jury will have seen far more evidence than the rest of us and if 12 people find him guilty based on that- thats good enough for me. Wouldnt want him anywhere near my club...much like Lee Hughes, Marlon King and Luke Mccormick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 But she doesn't know what happened??? The judge and jury have all evidence though. Rapist = scum. Know what you mean about footballers being easy targets, happened to Van Persie a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Oh dear. Rape is a difficult thing to prove 100% yes? He's been found guilty - so I accept he is a rapist. But in reality its her word against his. For all we know, she may have consented - he may have been wrongly convicted. No one will ever know for certain. Absolutley. I've sat on the jury in a rape trial. Not a pleasant experience and I'm still not 100% sure after 20 years , that the correct verdict was reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted April 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 But she doesn't know what happened??? The judge and jury have all evidence though. Rapist = scum. Know what you mean about footballers being easy targets, happened to Van Persie a few years ago. Exactly. I dont have an opinion either way. Just defending Plymouth's view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Jordan, Sadly, lots of girls lie about being raped - for various reasons. So when a rich, young footballer is accused/convicted, there will always be those that are sceptical. I've always been a believer of innocent until proven guilty, now he has been proven guilty I will class him as a fully fledged rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Absolutley. I've sat on the jury in a rape trial. Not a pleasant experience and I'm still not 100% sure after 20 years , that the correct verdict was reached. Exactly . Some cases are clear, but many are incredibly complex, such as this one. The fact that people have been legally exonerated while on death row in USA shows enough about how dodgy these can be. And death cases should be the ones with the most highly skilled people involved, yet they still had decisions changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I've always been a believer of innocent until proven guilty, now he has been proven guilty I will class him as a fully fledged rapist. Try being more open minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted April 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Absolutley. I've sat on the jury in a rape trial. Not a pleasant experience and I'm still not 100% sure after 20 years , that the correct verdict was reached. Dont envy you. Get something like that wrong - and you could ruin someones life. Being raped is obviously terrible - but being wrongly accused cant be nice either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Jordan, Sadly, lots of girls lie about being raped - for various reasons. So when a rich, young footballer is accused/convicted, there will always be those that are sceptical. Sadly, lots of woman never report being raped neither. Lets look at it from both perspectives. There are a lot of sick people out there, and he has been found guilty in a court of law. Anyway, if she cant remember a thing, how the hell was she able to consent to sex?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Try being more open minded. Why? the judge/jury knows more than any of us and he's given the punishment he feels to be the right one. I have no reason to doubt the decision personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Why? the judge/jury knows more than any of us and he's given the punishment he feels to be the right one. I have no reason to doubt the decision personally. Erm.... didn't you read this? Absolutley. I've sat on the jury in a rape trial. Not a pleasant experience and I'm still not 100% sure after 20 years , that the correct verdict was reached. Still have "no reason to doubt the decision"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted April 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sadly, lots of woman never report being raped neither. Lets look at it from both perspectives. There are a lot of sick people out there, and he has been found guilty in a court of law. Anyway, if she cant remember a thing, how the hell was she able to consent to sex?? I totally agree. My point was about seeing the other perspective. Just because she did'nt remember, does not mean she did'nt consent. I've had nights where I've drank loads - done things I cant remember - but I was still in control of myself - just could'nt remember much! Though, to be fair to this girl, she said she drank what she usually did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Erm.... didn't you read this? Still have "no reason to doubt the decision"? None of it matters, he's been sentenced. If he's been wrongly proven guilty then i'll change my opinion. If it's innocent until proven guilty, surely it's guilty until proven innocent?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 But you've just had a guy who's been on the jury saying he's still not sure if his decision was the right one . How can you be sure this is the right one as well? I'm not trying to convince you to changing your mind, I'm just showing my skepticism. I'm not defending Ched Evans, in fact, if anything, I'd say he is probably guilty. Just not definitely guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 For what it's worth, I think the appeal will be a very interesting one to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I just think if your innocent until proven guilty, surely you are guilty until proven innocent. Seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Tis strange how people saying 'cant question the decision ' or 'judge knows wat he's doing' and slam ched Evans but then be experts on planning for the town green /ashton vale case and play the victim. The way I interpreted the verdict today is that the girl was too drunk to give consent so in effect no consent was given. Although they have both admitted having sex with the girl so I presume there was further evidence to find Evans guilty as the other player was cleared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I just think if your innocent until proven guilty, surely you are guilty until proven innocent. Seems fair. I think once a verdict has passed then yes, of course the difficulty comes if someone is in effect guilty for years but then cleared later e.g. Barry George in the Jill dando case. He will never get those years bk and ppl wil always say 'no smoke without fire' despite being cleared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Jordan, Sadly, lots of girls lie about being raped - for various reasons. So when a rich, young footballer is accused/convicted, there will always be those that are sceptical. and a lot more are bought off and subjected to mega rich footballers buying their brand of justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 How interesting to read through these comments... I'd consider myself reasonably clued up on this topic and I'll share with you my take on things... 1. If ever there was a country you'd want to face trial in, it's the UK. Our judicial system is designed to protect the innocent man. 2. It's my understanding that the victim went back to the hotel room with the cleared footballer. That probably cast enough doubt in the jury's mind for them to find him not guilty. Evans was a third party who went back to the hotel room. I doubt that went down well. 3. Robin Van Persie is not a rapist. Marlon King is not a rapist but he is a sex offender. Ched Evans IS a rapist. 4. Evans must have grounds for appeal to have one (he now has 28 days before it's too late). You can't just appeal for the hell of it. I'm sure he'll probably come up with grounds, but you don't see too many people getting appeals home. 5. 5 years is definitely not harsh for a rapist. The maximum tariff available is life. Granted, this is nothing like a life offence, but 5 years would seem about fair for the circumstances. Judges are bound by sentencing guidelines and the 5 year tariff will be within what he's bound by. I must admit, having read the circumstances, I didn't think that either of them would be found guilty. But none of us were there in the court room and we haven't heard the whole evidence, just the little bits reported by the press, so it's very difficult to say. Rape is probably about the hardest crime to prove, so there must have been some good evidence put forward by the prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Didnt they film it? Sort of. This was on an earlier story from the trial: Video recordings found on Mr Higgins' phone showed that he had been filming, or trying to film, the incident. Mr McDonald said: "I clocked through the window Ryan and his mate and then Ched came into the room and said, 'Can I get involved?'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Part of the problem seems to be Evans and Mcdonald have not got their stories straight and the independent evidence (of which there was a fair bit) about exactly how drunk she actually was, certainly does not square with their versions and come on boys why would footballers book a room at a Premier inn?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted April 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 5 years is definitely not harsh for a rapist. The maximum tariff available is life. Granted, this is nothing like a life offence, but 5 years would seem about fair for the circumstances. Judges are bound by sentencing guidelines and the 5 year tariff will be within what he's bound by. When you consider he will be out in 2 and a half years time - his sentence is quite lenient! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 When you consider he will be out in 2 and a half years time - his sentence is quite lenient! Exactly and I suspect Sheff Utd will stand by him and I suspect most of the people claiming he has been harshly treated, don't have daughters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 When you consider he will be out in 2 and a half years time - his sentence is quite lenient! Standard practice i'm afraid. I suppose the plus side of this case is that the victim has no recollection of that night's events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9214541/Embarrassed-woman-cried-rape-after-bondage-sex-regrets-court-hears.html this was also in the news today. where a woman cried rape but did not get away with it. As he has been found guilty, i will respect the judges / jury's decision. however, they have to be 100% sure, otherwise they have to say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 http://www.telegraph...ourt-hears.html this was also in the news today. where a woman cried rape but did not get away with it. As he has been found guilty, i will respect the judges / jury's decision. however, they have to be 100% sure, otherwise they have to say no. Actually they only have to be above 50% sure, but I get what you mean. I just want to clarify, while I'm being skeptical, I haven't once said the sentence is too strong or have I backed Ched Evans up. Just to make it clear, I'm not sticking up for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 None of it matters, he's been sentenced. If he's been wrongly proven guilty then i'll change my opinion. If it's innocent until proven guilty, surely it's guilty until proven innocent?! I suspect he'll get off on appeal. Did the prosecution really show Beyond Reasonable doubt that he raped her? I suppose a lot of it would have come down to whether he was a reliable witness. If he came across as a liar, that might have secured the verdict. Can they increase the sentence if he makes an unsuccessful appeal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 He's been made an example of. Topical considering the latest adverts aimed at teens on the whole consent issue. When I was younger you had to be carefull the girl you'd pulled in IQ was old enough, now it seems you've gotta make sure they aren't too drunk. Glad I'm married, won't be long before you need a signed permission slip thats been witnessed by a policeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Actually they only have to be above 50% sure, but I get what you mean. It's 100% "beyond reasonable doubt". It's only 50% "in the balance of probability" in civil cases. Thank you, m'lud. Red-Robbo rests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.