Ched Evans

[Fordy62]

It's 100% "beyond reasonable doubt".

It's only 50% "in the balance of probability" in civil cases.

Thank you, m'lud. Red-Robbo rests.

It's not quite 100% because there can be some unreasonable doubt! .

Either way, have a good night Ched!

[eskay]

Someone will sign him when he's released...Gaurenteed

Don't be too sure, watch the sponsors walk. Would you want your companies name being worn by a rapist?

[catcott_red1]

Clayton Mc Donald had sex with her. Ched Evans had sex with her. I think the questions arise from the fact that they both say she consented to it but she maintains that she remembers neither of them. Thats the confusing thing how can one be guilty and the other acquitted !?!? Same facts different outcomes

[Fordy62]

Clayton Mc Donald had sex with her. Ched Evans had sex with her. I think the questions arise from the fact that they both say she consented to it but she maintains that she remembers neither of them. Thats the confusing thing how can one be guilty and the other acquitted !?!? Same facts different outcomes

On the contrary. She went back to the hotel with McDonald. Not Evans. I suspect this was enough to make the jury doubt.

A text was sent to Evans and he attended. It's not a normal move. Not in my book anyway.

[SJC]

Presumably the big issue here is whether she was infact drugged?

If she was drugged by either of the defendants then that isn't the greatest character reference in the world and, rightly or wrongly, assumption drifts toward proof.

I haven't read particularly widely on the subject so am quite likely oblivious to some key evidence, but I do find it incredibly alarming that the backbone to the prosecutions case seems to be that the lady 'didn't know what she was doing'. Now, returning to the {alleged} drugging, if the jury believes that there is sufficient evidence to suggest she reached this state through malicious interference from either defendant, someone is going to be held accountable, and very much rightly so.

If this was a situation where a woman/lady had gone out, had too much to drink and woken up next to someone with no recollection of the previous night, the ruling is very worrying/debatable. Presumably/hopefully, as the jury have reached the verdict they have, there is evidence which points away from your average drunk girl sleeps with drunk boy affair and, one would assume, it relates to the influence in which the gentlemen had in her reaching her state.

Nobody is defending rapists, why would any genuine, honest or decent human do that, people are just questioning how the verdict was reached on the limited information at their disposal.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Presumably the big issue here is whether she was infact drugged?

If she was drugged by either of the defendants then that isn't the greatest character reference in the world and, rightly or wrongly, assumption drifts toward proof.

I haven't read particularly widely on the subject so am quite likely oblivious to some key evidence, but I do find it incredibly alarming that the backbone to the prosecutions case seems to be that the lady 'didn't know what she was doing'. Now, returning to the {alleged} drugging, if the jury believes that there is sufficient evidence to suggest she reached this state through malicious interference from either defendant, someone is going to be held accountable, and very much rightly so.

If this was a situation where a woman/lady had gone out, had too much to drink and woken up next to someone with no recollection of the previous night, the ruling is very worrying/debatable. Presumably/hopefully, as the jury have reached the verdict they have, there is evidence which points away from your average drunk girl sleeps with drunk boy affair and, one would assume, it relates to the influence in which the gentlemen had in her reaching her state.

Nobody is defending rapists, why would any genuine, honest or decent human do that, people are just questioning how the verdict was reached on the limited information at their disposal.

Sorry mate but this case is all about consent and whether in her incredibly drunken state (to which quite a few independent witnesses gave evidence of and these 2 little darlings must have been very aware of) she was in fact capable of giving that consent, but please also bear in mind the 2 little darlings were both compos mentis enough for Evans to book a room at a Premier inn in Mcdonalds name (footballers in a premier inn, as if) and Mcdonald was compos mentis enough to text Evans and invite him to join. it should serve as a salutary lesson to all young little darling footballers who think that all women should just fall at their feet and then just buy their way out of trouble.

[Riaz]

Sorry mate but this case is all about consent and whether in her incredibly drunken state (to which quite a few independent witnesses gave evidence of and these 2 little darlings must have been very aware of) she was in fact capable of giving that consent, but please also bear in mind the 2 little darlings were both compos mentis enough for Evans to book a room at a Premier inn in Mcdonalds name (footballers in a premier inn, as if) and Mcdonald was compos mentis enough to text Evans and invite him to join. it should serve as a salutary lesson to all young little darling footballers who think that all women should just fall at their feet and then just buy their way out of trouble.

This is what bothers me - Footballers have no problems with pulling women - they do have women falling at their feet - I cant see why a semi-famous footballer like him would need to rape a girl to get sex - I doubt he would have any problems "getting laid"

[Fordy62]

I think the fact that his mate had to text him and he went there to join in shows that he didn't have a particularly successful night, which was probably the root cause of the rape!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

This is what bothers me - Footballers have no problems with pulling women - they do have women falling at their feet - I cant see why a semi-famous footballer like him would need to rape a girl to get sex - I doubt he would have any problems "getting laid"

Probably in his tiny mind, not enough fun anymore, who knows.

This piece sums it all up for me.

Nita Dowell, Senior Crown Prosecutor for the Crown Prosecution Service in Wales, said: 'Evans took advantage of a vulnerable young woman who was in no fit state to consent to sexual activity. He did so knowingly and with a total disregard for her physical or emotional wellbeing.

'It is a myth that being vulnerable through alcohol consumption means that a victim is somehow responsible for being raped. The law is clear - being vulnerable through drink or drugs does not imply consent.

[Fordy62]

Reasonable belief is key to why Evans got potted and McDonald didn't.

The jury clearly thought that the victim couldn't consent.

McDonalds defence obviously showed that although the victim didn't consent, in the act of going back to a hotel room with him, she gave him grounds to reasonably believe that she consented.

The victim did not go to the hotel with Evans. So he could not reasonably believe that she consented. He didn't have the same fall back defence as McDonald.

Hence McDonald acquitted. Evans rapist.

Simple.

[cityexile]

Bottom line is that 12 jurors, I would suspect with the same questions and issues as many on here about some apparent inconsistancies, decided unanimously that having actually heard all the evidence, he was guilty.

If you think about it, in a simple 'he says she says' case that must be really hard to prove and get that kind of decision.

If she was very drunk, or drugged, taking her back to a room pre booked by a mate and then texting him to essentialy say 'got one' does not seem on the face of it normal behavoir.

Send him down.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Bottom line is that 12 jurors, I would suspect with the same questions and issues as many on here about some apparent inconsistancies, decided unanimously that having actually heard all the evidence, he was guilty.

If you think about it, in a simple 'he says she says' case that must be really hard to prove and get that kind of decision.

If she was very drunk, or drugged, taking her back to a room pre booked by a mate and then texting him to essentialy say 'got one' does not seem on the face of it normal behavoir.

Send him down.

Let's be very honest about this, this was a train wreck waiting to happen, the law of averages says that sooner or later a footballer was going to be found guilty of rape, let's hope that this sends out the sort of message that even dullard footballers can understand, but somehow I doubt it.

[Dorset_Cider]

How interesting to read through these comments...

I'd consider myself reasonably clued up on this topic and I'll share with you my take on things...

1. If ever there was a country you'd want to face trial in, it's the UK. Our judicial system is designed to protect the innocent man.

2. It's my understanding that the victim went back to the hotel room with the cleared footballer. That probably cast enough doubt in the jury's mind for them to find him not guilty. Evans was a third party who went back to the hotel room. I doubt that went down well.

3. Robin Van Persie is not a rapist. Marlon King is not a rapist but he is a sex offender. Ched Evans IS a rapist.

4. Evans must have grounds for appeal to have one (he now has 28 days before it's too late). You can't just appeal for the hell of it. I'm sure he'll probably come up with grounds, but you don't see too many people getting appeals home.

5. 5 years is definitely not harsh for a rapist. The maximum tariff available is life. Granted, this is nothing like a life offence, but 5 years would seem about fair for the circumstances. Judges are bound by sentencing guidelines and the 5 year tariff will be within what he's bound by.

I must admit, having read the circumstances, I didn't think that either of them would be found guilty. But none of us were there in the court room and we haven't heard the whole evidence, just the little bits reported by the press, so it's very difficult to say.

Rape is probably about the hardest crime to prove, so there must have been some good evidence put forward by the prosecution.

Perhaps under the given circumstances....... any right minded person would have been better to just walk away........ Warning bells and all that........

but sex is not like that is it.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Perhaps under the given circumstances....... any right minded person would have been better to just walk away........ but sex is not like that is it.

Looks like too much premeditation in this case.

[SJC]

Sorry mate but this case is all about consent and whether in her incredibly drunken state (to which quite a few independent witnesses gave evidence of and these 2 little darlings must have been very aware of) she was in fact capable of giving that consent, but please also bear in mind the 2 little darlings were both compos mentis enough for Evans to book a room at a Premier inn in Mcdonalds name (footballers in a premier inn, as if) and Mcdonald was compos mentis enough to text Evans and invite him to join. it should serve as a salutary lesson to all young little darling footballers who think that all women should just fall at their feet and then just buy their way out of trouble.

Please don't think for one moment I'm taking sides, as I've said I know relatively little about the case as a whole, certainly not enough to personally make an informed judgement.

The jury, who are privy to all available knowledge, have found Ched Evans guilty of rape.

Do they sometimes get it wrong, I'm sure they do. But as a society we must believe that the balance of evidence has seen that the correct conclusion has been reached by fair and proper means.

[KastandenBCFC]

Although sceptical,

When there is strong evidence such as ched evans leaving the hotel through a fire exit (why would you leave through a fire exit in a hotel unless there is a fire ???) then I can fully agree with the verdict !!!

But she does seem to have a history of this, and in recent years there have been various stories of footballers being victimised of rape when they've been found innocent E.g. David Goodwillie.

Also there have been high profile cases involving Rooney and Balotelli with a girl called Jenny Thompson. Who knew exactly what she was doing, and in recent weeks has been on ITVs This Morning just for a bit of publicity. (LOOK !!! ... I know this is totally different to the Ched Evans case) but I do feel girls know they can get money and even fame by bedding married footballers and taking them to the press.

[Dorset_Cider]

Looks like too much premeditation in this case.

As you say.................... but any male could be placed in this situation?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Although sceptical,

When there is strong evidence such as ched evans leaving the hotel through a fire exit (why would you leave through a fire exit in a hotel unless there is a fire ???) then I can fully agree with the verdict !!!

But she does seem to have a history of this, and in recent years there have been various stories of footballers being victimised of rape when they've been found innocent E.g. David Goodwillie.

Also there have been high profile cases involving Rooney and Balotelli with a girl called Jenny Thompson. Who knew exactly what she was doing, and in recent weeks has been on ITVs This Morning just for a bit of publicity. (LOOK !!! ... I know this is totally different to the Ched Evans case) but I do feel girls know they can get money and even fame by bedding married footballers and taking them to the press.

Who has a history of what?.

Rooney and Balotelli are ******* morons, the woman is a prostitute FFS, she had already blown the whistle on Rooney and Balotelli still knobs her, what do you think went through her mind the minute she walked into a hotel room and first saw Rooney and later Balotelli?, how about 'that'll boost my pension fund'. if footballers are so stupid as to put themselves into those types of situations they only have themselves to blame.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

As you say.................... but any male could be placed in this situation?

What?, These 2 animals placed themselves into this situation and then in an act of premeditation booked a cheap sleazy hotel room and then invited his mate and then they took advantage of a girl who was so drunk/drugged she could not knowingly consent to anything, but these 2 still did. Are you saying under the same circumstances you might have done the same?.

[KastandenBCFC]

Rooney and Balotelli are ******* morons, the woman is a prostitute FFS, she had already blown the whistle on Rooney and Balotelli still knobs her, what do you think went through her mind the minute she walked into a hotel room and first saw Rooney and later Balotelli?, how about 'that'll boost my pension fund'. if footballers are so stupid as to put themselves into those types of situations they only have themselves to blame.

Yeah okay I take your point! But why do these girls go public even if they have their money. Who heard of Rebecca Loos before the whole Beckham thing. The same with Jenny Thompson. Footballers shudn`t be so stupid because they are in the public eye but these girls do take advantage.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Yeah okay I take your point! But why do these girls go public even if they have their money. Who heard of Rebecca Loos before the whole Beckham thing. The same with Jenny Thompson. Footballers shudn`t be so stupid because they are in the public eye but these girls do take advantage.

There is a very old saying "an upright **** has no conscience" just about describes most modern day footballers.

[thejam]

The scale of British justice, always unbiased, always moraly correct NOT

[simon uk]

I wondered how one could be found guilty and the other was not, and the implied consent by agreeing to go to a hotel room is obviously the difference in this case. You have to say, and I am no moral barometer, but i have not done that with a passed out girl in front of my mates, maybe I am a prude? To be honest, even if she was fully awake and consenting, that kind of behaviour is quite frankly awful. If she was passed out, and clearly in trouble,and the only thing you can think to do is to jump on her, then you are a piece of crap in my opinion, and it looks like this scum bag has gotten what he deserves. It is rather a surprise to actually see a footballer get into that much trouble though these days, they normally seem to get away with most things.

[Pezo]

I've always been a believer of innocent until proven guilty, now he has been proven guilty I will class him as a fully fledged rapist.

Courts do get it wrong though. In America lots of people have been found to be not guilty after being found guilty and killed.

I understand what your saying and if he rapped her then I think 5 years is to little but from what I have heard about this case I'm not convinced that it's rape. If I drank to much and woke up the next morning next to 2 girls and didn't know what had happen how would I possibly know if I had consented or not? If I had consented to 1 but not he other?

It's rather confusing from where I am to say that he is defiantly without dought guilty.

[Riaz]

I wondered how one could be found guilty and the other was not, and the implied consent by agreeing to go to a hotel room is obviously the difference in this case. You have to say, and I am no moral barometer, but i have not done that with a passed out girl in front of my mates, maybe I am a prude? To be honest, even if she was fully awake and consenting, that kind of behaviour is quite frankly awful. If she was passed out, and clearly in trouble,and the only thing you can think to do is to jump on her, then you are a piece of crap in my opinion, and it looks like this scum bag has gotten what he deserves. It is rather a surprise to actually see a footballer get into that much trouble though these days, they normally seem to get away with most things.

Who said she had passed out? Just because he can't remember, does not mean she had passed out....

[simon uk]

Who said she had passed out? Just because he can't remember, does not mean she had passed out....

Seems like semantics to me riaz, she clearly was in a state, which clearly doesn't make it right that some bloke can come along and do what he wants with her. It was evidently videod so her level of consciousness may become clear in due course.

[Joshyshaw]

I don't wanna really get involved without knowing all the facts but I just read this article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17781842

And from what I gather it was a case of her being absolutely wasted and him taking advantage. Not the most moral thing to do but does it really constitute a prison sentence? Sounds like a one night stand that got out of hand because his mates are idiots.

Apparently the court saw on cctv that she was ruined before even talking to the bloke so Im not sure about the validity of "she was drugged" argument

[Lrrr]

he will get another club based purely on how talented he is

[Martyn Hocking]

Can't believe the number of people on this thread trying to cloud the issue and make excuses for a convicted rapist.

The conviction rate in rape cases is notoriously low and the ordeal that victims have to go through to secure a conviction is awful. If Evans had been a half decent human being he would have pleaded guilty.

[Lordofthebling]

Thing I dont get is how McDonald gets away not guilty.

From reading the BBC; it sounds like after he met the girl walking down the street he took her back to his room, he sent texts out bragging about it, he was the first to fool around with the girl, and then he asked her (apparently) if Evans could get involved...