ron10bc Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 No Stead always runs his heart out always give 110% and can defend I'd rather have stead in the side above anyone of our players +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Well other players have to work harder when BP is in the side (closing down defenders/midfielders), so i would class a player than doesn;t work hard as a luxury. Obviously we have differing standards of the players worth to our team. BCAGFC Indeed, Pitman's worth lies his outstanding link play, his intelligent passing, his natural propensity to find space in the box, and of course his rare instinctive one touch goalscoring ability. He is not a workhorse like Stead can be, but he is not a shirker either - we have the likes of Skuse, Marvin, and Pearson to run up and down the pitch all day but all of them lack many attributes that Pitman brings to the team. Their athleticism and work rate is important in it's own way, and if that is all you go to professional football to watch then their robust efforts will be enough for you. It's not enough for me though. I want to see outstanding movement, skill, football intelligence, and most of all goals that most of us fans could only dream of scoring. If that player is not the most naturally fit, or has an ungainly running style that makes him appear to some to be a bit disinterested occasionally, so be it. Give me the goals, that's what I go to football for, and let the less skillful workhorses do a little more if it means our goalscorer is left to find the space in the box to get us the points. It takes all types to make a successful team and having a natural goalscorer, whether he is naturally super fit or not, who could very likely be amongst the top scorers in the division given regular starts is a very vital ingredient. One that every club looks for above all others and if we sell Pitman he will end up at another Championship club and he will thrive at this level. Mark my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 As I thought - very ineffective when started. Much more useful as an impact player from the bench. I think he will have to dramatically improve if he is to comand a more regular starting place. imo. Strange way of looking at it. Do you not think it likely that, like any other player - strikers in particular perhaps - he needs the confidence, and match sharpness, from starting regularly to show his best form? Given the constant stop start to his City career, and the seemingly ever present threat of being dropped again immediately if he doesn't perform to his best when given the odd start, his record is even more remarkable. Other City strikers (e.g. Maynard/Stead) have always been given leeway when returning to the team. 'Don't expect them to be at their best, give them a few games to find their sharpness etc'. - why is Pitman the odd man out expected to win the match for City/ find his best form immediately or be dropped straight back to the bench? He needs a run of games, no player could be expected to perform to their best under those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 why is Pitman the odd man out expected to win the match for City/ find his best form immediately or be dropped straight back to the bench? He needs a run of games, no player could be expected to perform to their best under those circumstances. I said in an earlier post on this thread that it must be that McInnes and Millen before him decided that Pitman's goal threat wasn't worth the lack of pace, work rate and overall team contribution. Both managers had teams that were struggling virtually every game and both placed effort and work rate highly in the pursuit of retaining Championship status. That's why the hard working Stead was getting the nod often ahead of Pitman along side Maynard ( when they played two up top). For whole time that Pitman has been at AG he's been part of a struggling team which haven't been creating plenty of chances and so his goal return is very impressive in view of that. In team that's attacking minded and making chances the I'm certain Pitman would be capable of 25 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Indeed, Pitman's worth lies his outstanding link play, his intelligent passing, his natural propensity to find space in the box, and of course his rare instinctive one touch goalscoring ability. He is not a workhorse like Stead can be, but he is not a shirker either - we have the likes of Skuse, Marvin, and Pearson to run up and down the pitch all day but all of them lack many attributes that Pitman brings to the team. Their athleticism and work rate is important in it's own way, and if that is all you go to professional football to watch then their robust efforts will be enough for you. It's not enough for me though. I want to see outstanding movement, skill, football intelligence, and most of all goals that most of us fans could only dream of scoring. If that player is not the most naturally fit, or has an ungainly running style that makes him appear to some to be a bit disinterested occasionally, so be it. Give me the goals, that's what I go to football for, and let the less skillful workhorses do a little more if it means our goalscorer is left to find the space in the box to get us the points. It takes all types to make a successful team and having a natural goalscorer, whether he is naturally super fit or not, who could very likely be amongst the top scorers in the division given regular starts is a very vital ingredient. One that every club looks for above all others and if we sell Pitman he will end up at another Championship club and he will thrive at this level. Mark my words. I'm sorry but that has to be the most rose tinted, dillusional post of the year. If BP produced the goods week in, week out he would be the 1st name on the teamsheet, for successive managers he hasn't. BP had a couple of good runs in the team last season and failed to produce when started, the Pompey away game was a perfect example.......his 1st touch was appauling. I also want to see goals next season (that is my main request for next season) but I also want to see every one of our players giving 110% in every game they play, that is what a team needs in the championship. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I said in an earlier post on this thread that it must be that McInnes and Millen before him decided that Pitman's goal threat wasn't worth the lack of pace, work rate and overall team contribution. Both managers had teams that were struggling virtually every game and both placed effort and work rate highly in the pursuit of retaining Championship status. That's why the hard working Stead was getting the nod often ahead of Pitman along side Maynard ( when they played two up top). For whole time that Pitman has been at AG he's been part of a struggling team which haven't been creating plenty of chances and so his goal return is very impressive in view of that. In team that's attacking minded and making chances the I'm certain Pitman would be capable of 25 goals. When I read the highlighted part of your post I thought you were simply making it up, and unsurprisingly you were. Between Maynard coming back from injury and being sold to West Ham Stead started four games alongside Maynard, a couple of which from memory he was actually on the left wing, whilst Pitman started 10. In the other games Maynard was selected up front on his own. So saying that Stead 'often got the nod in front of Pitman' is complete rubbish and made up to try and back up your argument. That is in no way criticising Stead, who in fact I am a massive fan of and would go as far as saying that McInnes' treatment of him for a large part of last season is one of the few things he got wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 When I read the highlighted part of your post I thought you were simply making it up, and unsurprisingly you were. Between Maynard coming back from injury and being sold to West Ham Stead started four games alongside Maynard, a couple of which from memory he was actually on the left wing, whilst Pitman started 10. In the other games Maynard was selected up front on his own. So saying that Stead 'often got the nod in front of Pitman' is complete rubbish and made up to try and back up your argument. That is in no way criticising Stead, who in fact I am a massive fan of and would go as far as saying that McInnes' treatment of him for a large part of last season is one of the few things he got wrong. What argument would that be? I'm suggesting that both McInnes and Millen didn't use Pitman as frequently as his goal per game return would suggest because they either played one up top ( usually Maynard or Stead) or selected Maynard and Stead together. When Maynard/Stead was injured Pitman played. They both saw something missing from Pitman's performances which was why he on the bench so often under both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 What argument would that be? I'm suggesting that both McInnes and Millen didn't use Pitman as frequently as his goal per game return would suggest because they either played one up top ( usually Maynard or Stead) or selected Maynard and Stead together. When Maynard/Stead was injured Pitman played. They both saw something missing from Pitman's performances which was why he on the bench so often under both of them. You wrote 'Both managers had teams that were struggling virtually every game and both placed effort and work rate highly in the pursuit of retaining Championship status. That's why the hard working Stead was getting the nod often ahead of Pitman along side Maynard ( when they played two up top)', which, as I said, doesn't hold any substance as Stead played ahead of Pitman alongside Maynard just four times. Whilst Brett partnered Maynard in ten matches. You have now changed your mind to him not playing as we often played with one up front, which is of course true, but to claim that Stead was often picked ahead of him in a 442 is complete rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 One that every club looks for above all others and if we sell Pitman he will end up at another Championship club and he will thrive at this level. Mark my words. You think? I would say at most other C'ship clubs he'd have a similar role to the one he's had here. To get 40+ games in a season I think he might have to drop a level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 You wrote 'Both managers had teams that were struggling virtually every game and both placed effort and work rate highly in the pursuit of retaining Championship status. That's why the hard working Stead was getting the nod often ahead of Pitman along side Maynard ( when they played two up top)', which, as I said, doesn't hold any substance as Stead played ahead of Pitman alongside Maynard just four times. Whilst Brett partnered Maynard in ten matches. You have now changed your mind to him not playing as we often played with one up front, which is of course true, but to claim that Stead was often picked ahead of him in a 442 is complete rubbish. I really don't understand what your rowing about. Why do you think Millen and then McInnes didn't start Pitman as much as his impressive goal per game ratio would demand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Pitman is a good poacher and if we have a decent midfield this season it'll be worth playing him, no surprise to see him struggle last season in a relegation fight Stead looked a lot better, as at the time every ounce of energy and stamina counted. In a good passing attacking team Pitman will thrive he did well in the season he got the first season with us. I'm not saying build a team around him but reckon the stronger the core of the team gets the better Pitman will shine. As already mentioned on here about lack of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Brett is one of those players who looks lazy, but when you watch him off the ball, he is very clever, he ghosts in and out of positions, making him hard to mark. Granted, you may not see him busting a gut running around like a headless chicken, instead, he prefers to get himself into the correct position, unlike some who find themselves miles out of position, through working a bit harder. I would pick Brett, but I guess it depends if you like a team full of workmen, he certainly isn't a luxury player, he is a different player, and one if harnessed correctly will get you goals. He is a player who needs to think he is wanted, and needs to play, not in out in out. One thing is for sure, when he got a decent run of consecutive games in his first season, he scored regularly. We will have wasted a goal scoring talent if we just let his career go out with a whimper with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunnyfunt Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Pitman is a good poacher and if we have a decent midfield this season it'll be worth playing him, no surprise to see him struggle last season in a relegation fight Stead looked a lot better, as at the time every ounce of energy and stamina counted. In a good passing attacking team Pitman will thrive he did well in the season he got the first season with us. I'm not saying build a team around him but reckon the stronger the core of the team gets the better Pitman will shine. As already mentioned on here about lack of service. I'd like to see Pitman play in a confident, attacking side to see how he really fares. I think with better service, as you have mentioned you will see him eventually net on a regular basis. Confidence is an amazing thing and that was evidently lacking throughout last season. Maybe an on form Bert and a rejuvenated Anderson plus possibly a new attack minded midfielder could bring the best out of him....if given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcherryberry Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Sometimes your face (or style) just dont fit. I believe this is the case with Pitman here. Del set us up last season not to lose playing a high tempo pressing game. The same style he employed at St Johnstone and the very same style he's talked about many times before from his time at WBA when under Megson they got to the Prem. The manager draining every inch of effort out of his players week in week out. Brett simply cant play this way. That along with his sulky lazy attitude both on and off the pitch i can fully understand why he didn't feature much last season especially when in a dog fight battling relegation. Pitmans a fantastic finisher. No doubts about that and under a different manager who plays a more expansive style and doesn't demand 110% work rate from every player then Brett would score goals for fun. As someone else said BPs all round game is not good enough to build a team around so unless he changes his style (which would never happen almost impossible really) i can only ever see him being used as a impact player whilst here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillies Downs Leeds Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Chatting with Burnley fans at the Bath City friendly tonight and they seem certain that he will not be at Burnley anytime soon. His name has not been mentioned for 3 or 4 weeks up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 You think? I would say at most other C'ship clubs he'd have a similar role to the one he's had here. To get 40+ games in a season I think he might have to drop a level. Absolutely I do. Other Championship clubs will be well aware of his 13 goals in 21 starts in his first season. Many clubs in our division (including City last season) do not have a striker who can score that many in a full season, so there's bound to be interest in a player already proven at this level. He won't need to drop down again, he scored 28 in his last season for Bournemouth, was scoring at a rate of a goal a game the next, and is far too good for the lower divisions. Many goals he scores are top class strikes that would grace any division. With a fair crack of the whip he could have been our next Bob Taylor, unfortunately I fear he'll gain that legendary status at one of our rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Absolutely I do. Other Championship clubs will be well aware of his 13 goals in 21 starts in his first season. Many clubs in our division (including City last season) do not have a striker who can score that many in a full season, so there's bound to be interest in a player already proven at this level. He won't need to drop down again, he scored 28 in his last season for Bournemouth, was scoring at a rate of a goal a game the next, and is far too good for the lower divisions. Many goals he scores are top class strikes that would grace any division. With a fair crack of the whip he could have been our next Bob Taylor, unfortunately I fear he'll gain that legendary status at one of our rivals. Makes you wonder why nobody else has been in for him then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Who says clubs haven't asked and we just haven't said there have been approaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Who says clubs haven't asked and we just haven't said there have been approaches? Nobody, but with the amount of rumours and "In the know" people on here, I'm sure we'd have heard something!!! I also get the feeling that if a suitable offer came in, McInnes would take the chance to get rid (Just my opinion). As I've said many many times, I rate him very highly but for whatever reason, the managers have decided not to pick him. I think he will find himself on the bench a lot this season too. Anyone know what he has left on his contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jordan Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 The Pitman debate is boring now, it's been done so many times. As I've said countless times, I'd start him every game and thoroughly believe he can score 20+ goals a season. The lack of work rate criticism is a myth, as I've witnessed him close down defenders just as all strikers do (apart from the workhorse type strikers like Stead) he certainly put in more effort than Maynard did for example. He is a very intelligent footballer, possibly has one of the smartest footballing brains in the league, which I suppose he needs to have, in order to make up for his lack of pace. He has shown frustration at times but frustration isn't always negative, who wouldn't be frustrated if you were Brett? Stead moaned on Twitter when he wasn't playing but I don't see anybody moaning about that now. In fact he didn't moan, he was just showing his frustration, as Brett does at times. McInnes has praised his attitude and I'll take that over some of the people on here who are never at training sessions yet seem to automatically think Pitman's attitude is not good enough. He's not Lionel Messi, but he's criminally underrated by a lot of supporters and I wouldn't be surprised to see him join another Championship club one day and score goals for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Sometimes your face (or style) just dont fit. I believe this is the case with Pitman here. Del set us up last season not to lose playing a high tempo pressing game. The same style he employed at St Johnstone and the very same style he's talked about many times before from his time at WBA when under Megson they got to the Prem. The manager draining every inch of effort out of his players week in week out. Brett simply cant play this way. That along with his sulky lazy attitude both on and off the pitch i can fully understand why he didn't feature much last season especially when in a dog fight battling relegation. Pitmans a fantastic finisher. No doubts about that and under a different manager who plays a more expansive style and doesn't demand 110% work rate from every player then Brett would score goals for fun. As someone else said BPs all round game is not good enough to build a team around so unless he changes his style (which would never happen almost impossible really) i can only ever see him being used as a impact player whilst here. Spot on. He's a last 20 gamble when we're a goal down. His all round game pales in comparison to Stead, but the boy can score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 The Pitman debate is boring now, it's been done so many times. As I've said countless times, I'd start him every game and thoroughly believe he can score 20+ goals a season. The lack of work rate criticism is a myth, as I've witnessed him close down defenders just as all strikers do (apart from the workhorse type strikers like Stead) he certainly put in more effort than Maynard did for example. He is a very intelligent footballer, possibly has one of the smartest footballing brains in the league, which I suppose he needs to have, in order to make up for his lack of pace. He has shown frustration at times but frustration isn't always negative, who wouldn't be frustrated if you were Brett? Stead moaned on Twitter when he wasn't playing but I don't see anybody moaning about that now. In fact he didn't moan, he was just showing his frustration, as Brett does at times. McInnes has praised his attitude and I'll take that over some of the people on here who are never at training sessions yet seem to automatically think Pitman's attitude is not good enough. He's not Lionel Messi, but he's criminally underrated by a lot of supporters and I wouldn't be surprised to see him join another Championship club one day and score goals for fun. I agree with most of that - But it just makes it all the more bemusing as to why he hasnt played more games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtyeoDave Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I've no idea how reliable 12th_man is on twitter but he ha posted that pitman is definitely off and that we have accepted bids from burnley derby and Bournemouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron10bc Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I've no idea how reliable 12th_man is on twitter but he ha posted that pitman is definitely off and that we have accepted bids from burnley derby and Bournemouth Interesting I don't think we will accept any offers unless we have assurances from baldock and Davies that they are willing to sign for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I really don't understand what your rowing about. Why do you think Millen and then McInnes didn't start Pitman as much as his impressive goal per game ratio would demand? Really do I have to explain it again? You stated it as fact that Stead was regularly picked above Pitman to partner Maynard up front and used this as an example of our last two managers not particularly rating Brett due to his perceived lack of effort. This, for the third time, was completely incorrect as Stead started the same match as Maynard just four times whereas Brett played up front with him on ten occassions. I have already partly answered why Pitman hasn't has as much time on the pitch as it would seem he should have, and it is hardly news. He doesn't suit a 451 formation and as you rightly pointed out in one of your earlier posts we have been a struggling team over the last two seasons so the temptation to play an extra man in midfield is always going to be there. To my knowledge he has only played up top on his own once for City, away at Peterborough last season, and in fairness he was disappointing, although that can also be said for the other ten players on the pitch that day. The other factor that has played a part in Brett's lack of starts was the Maynard issue. I really, really, don't want this to turn into another Maynard debate, but for large parts of last season he offered us nothing, but was still, for some reason, seemingly undroppable. This added to the fact we looked slightly more comfortable with 5 in midfield meant that Brett's opportunities were limited. For a team in the positon that City are Pitman is never going to start every single game as there will always be games where the manager, rightly or wrongly, feels more comfortable shoring things up and going with the extra man in midfield and therefore Brett ending up on the bench whilst somebody more adept at leading the game gets the starting role up front. But he has a talent for sticking the ball in the net, whether we will be able be good enough to get the very best out of Pitman I do not know, but I would like to know of any other team that after scoring the pathetic amount of goals we have over the last 5 seasons would look to ostracise a player with Pitman's undoubted talent in front of goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 It would be interesting to know how many of the games that he STARTED in, he actually scored in though. I suspect that many of those goals have come from the bench. Who cares! They all count. I'm with TRL in this. Brett is a player who looks slow because he doesn't make those surging runs from midfield. He doesn't need to. His forte is being in the final third of the field. And when there, he's quick enough pouncing on a loose ball - quick as f- in fact. He might look lazy, but observe the short passes, the runing off the ball the man makes. He contributes. He has no defensive ability whatsoever, but that's not what he's there for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 The reason Brett looked poor last season is because we were rubbish. He's a final third player, he'll try and link up with wingers and strike partners and find a bit of space in and around the box- something he's excellent at btw. If we put together a decent side (which Del is starting to do) and Pitman gets a run of games, he will score goals. I would put serious money on that (if our lass would let me). At the same time, we have to accept that sometimes it just doesn't work out for a particular player at a particular club and if we signed Davies AND Baldock, I think I could accept Pitman leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 The reason Brett looked poor last season is because we were rubbish. He's a final third player, he'll try and link up with wingers and strike partners and find a bit of space in and around the box- something he's excellent at btw. If we put together a decent side (which Del is starting to do) and Pitman gets a run of games, he will score goals. I would put serious money on that (if our lass would let me). At the same time, we have to accept that sometimes it just doesn't work out for a particular player at a particular club and if we signed Davies AND Baldock, I think I could accept Pitman leaving We had the worst conversion rate in the league we created but couldn't score when Brett played from the start he looked dis-intrested (more so the micky) and spent time with his hands on his hips moaning, Unlike stead who woked his ass off chasing everything and doing alot for the cause, all Pitman has is a bit of flair and a decent finish he adds nothing else which is why he was out of favour with Millen and McInnes, He is a luxury player you can't afford in a team fighting relegation, if we were up the right end of the table then yes he would be playing every week, but we needed fighters last season and he wasn't one which is what put me off of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 We had the worst conversion rate in the league we created but couldn't score when Brett played from the start he looked dis-intrested (more so the micky) and spent time with his hands on his hips moaning, Unlike stead who woked his ass off chasing everything and doing alot for the cause, all Pitman has is a bit of flair and a decent finish he adds nothing else which is why he was out of favour with Millen and McInnes, He is a luxury player you can't afford in a team fighting relegation, if we were up the right end of the table then yes he would be playing every week, but we needed fighters last season and he wasn't one which is what put me off of him Well yeah. That's pretty much what I said. Brett is a very good player, possibly with an attitude problem, who was not suited to the situation we were in last season. My point is, if we actually play well and do well this season then Pitman will be an asset rather than a waste of a starting place. We'll never hope to get in the top 10 if we rely on players who run around a lot and try hard (though I guess we got to the play off final on that basis a few years back...) and in a different environment he will score goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Well yeah. That's pretty much what I said. Brett is a very good player, possibly with an attitude problem, who was not suited to the situation we were in last season. My point is, if we actually play well and do well this season then Pitman will be an asset rather than a waste of a starting place. We'll never hope to get in the top 10 if we rely on players who run around a lot and try hard (though I guess we got to the play off final on that basis a few years back...) and in a different environment he will score goals. but thats what we did under johnson and we never finished outside the top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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