Possibly Breaking News Regarding Ashton Vale

[RedRaw]

Very, anyone know if its possible to get these plans?

This is where you can type in the planning references. Most of the applications are listed but dont provide any of the planning documents unfortunately

http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=advanced

[CardiffBlackLabel]

Strikes me that it's about time the normal people of Bristol got their city back from those keen to knit their own city out of lentils.

It's not a crime to drive a car. It's not a crime to have a modern stadium and it's not a crime to shop in Tescos every so often.

[Port Said Red]

I meant a surprise in that nothing's ever been announced other than a brief look at adding boxes at the back of the stand

Ah sorry. Well there is a big difference between getting planning permision and actual plans. I am sure the Planning permission would have been fairly easy to obtain as long as the general dimensions were not changed much, it would still require architects plans etc. it sounds once again like SL has always had a plan B despite some claims on here to the contrary.

[Hillzider]

Got some old computer images from the post showing the proposed developments from the late 90's somewhere.

See if i can dig them out and post them up.

[bs3]

Strikes me that it's about time the normal people of Bristol got their city back from those keen to knit their own city out of lentils.

It's not a crime to drive a car. It's not a crime to have a modern stadium and it's not a crime to shop in Tescos every so often.

Spot on .

This City have been hijacked by middle class liberal interlopers, ex hippies .

The average Bristolian feels totally disconnected from their City.

[chipdawg]

Tom,

Am i right in thinking that Braby was purchased in 2011 by an anonymous buyer?

I spoke to CS after he left Ashton Gate and he told me the most likely outcome in all of this would be to redevelop Ashton Gate.

I know we already have planning permission for the ground as its stated in the planning statement

• Full planning application to replace the Williams (west) stand with a new 11,543 seat stand

(LPA Ref: 98/03708/F), approved 28 July 1999.

• Outline planning application to replace the Wedlock (south) and Dolman (east) stand with new

stands (LPA Ref: 98/03709/P), approved 28 July 1999.

• Application for the renewal of outline planning permission 98/03709/P to replace the Wedlock

(south) and Dolman (east) stand with new stands (LPA Ref: 03/00538/R), approved 09 July

2003.

• Reserved matters application (Ref: 03/00538) for the demolition of the existing Wedlock stand

and the erection of a new three storey 5,000 seater stand with ancillary accommodation (LPA

Ref: 05/00974/M), approved 28 July 2005.

• Application for the renewal of full planning permission 98/03708/F for the demolition of the

Williams (west) stand and construction of a new 11,543 seat stand (LPA Ref: 05/03729/R),

approved 22 February 2006.

I was told however that the pitch would be rotated - which would leave the above applications void. Leaving no plans in the pipe line to redevelop any time soon.

Would be interested to know if anyone has any more info on this.

All those planning apps have expired so none of them are relevant any more. The new planning policy framework would (I think) mean that planning permission for a new stand within the boundary of the existing stadium would merely be a formality, extension into surrounding land uses would not be quite as easy, though knocking down a Wickes and building a stadium wouldn't matter

[nebristolred]

I remember there were pictures of the Wedlock/Williams proposals but I never saw one for the Dolman.

I remember there was an application though to extend the stand with a new walkway at the back.

[Barrs Court Red]

All those planning apps have expired so none of them are relevant any more. The new planning policy framework would (I think) mean that planning permission for a new stand within the boundary of the existing stadium would merely be a formality, extension into surrounding land uses would not be quite as easy, though knocking down a Wickes and building a stadium wouldn't matter

Outline planning doesn't expire though?

[chipdawg]

Outline planning doesn't expire though?

It does, though renewing outline permission is generally a formality as all it states is that the proposed development ticks all the basic boxes, so to speak. Looking at it again I can't remember when they change the expiry period for a planning app from 10years to 5; so actually the last couple of pp's may still be valid. Regardless, because there's no change of use at Ashton Gate, it's impossible for the development itself to be turned down, just the specifics

[Kid in the Riot]

It does, though renewing outline permission is generally a formality as all it states is that the proposed development ticks all the basic boxes, so to speak. Looking at it again I can't remember when they change the expiry period for a planning app from 10years to 5; so actually the last couple of pp's may still be valid. Regardless, because there's no change of use at Ashton Gate, it's impossible for the development itself to be turned down, just the specifics

No planning application is EVER a formality nor is it impossible for any future application at Ashton Gate to be turned down! The expiry period was never 10 years. Approx 7 years ago it changed from 5 to 3 though.

[Kid in the Riot]

All those planning apps have expired so none of them are relevant any more. The new planning policy framework would (I think) mean that planning permission for a new stand within the boundary of the existing stadium would merely be a formality, extension into surrounding land uses would not be quite as easy, though knocking down a Wickes and building a stadium wouldn't matter

If all those permissions have expired then we would have to submit a completely fresh application which would be assessed under current policy. There is no guarantee whatsoever these would get through planning although it's a much more straight forward proposal than applying for a stadiujm in the green belt!

I would be surprised if the club has not kept that Williams stand consent running. Just to keep the principle of extending the stadium valid.

[bristolcitysweden]

What is?

Great place for the new stadium.

[bristolcitysweden]

What is?

Great place for the new stadium.

[chipdawg]

No planning application is EVER a formality nor is it impossible for any future application at Ashton Gate to be turned down! The expiry period was never 10 years. Approx 7 years ago it changed from 5 to 3 though.

Sorry, thought it had dropped from 10 to 5 previously and thought the drop to 3 was much more recent than 7 years ago. From the details on that list provided by Brooklyn Zoo though, none of those applications remain valid

[Kid in the Riot]

**** sake. Bristol Citizen with another 'exclusive' it is then

BBC Bristol ‏@BBCBristol

Bristol City Council to refer Ashton Vale town green back to original inspector - more soon.

[TRL]

Spot on .

This City have been hijacked by middle class liberal interlopers, ex hippies .

The average Bristolian feels totally disconnected from their City.

to be honest, i don't know many of these types living in Ashton Vale, they just don't want a eysore near them (which it will be) ans potential devaluation of their houses. They may have fibbed to get there way, but I am sure many others would as well if a bloody gert monstrosity was going to built near theri own houses.

i hope it gets built, but I am not sure we can label all those residents as lentil munching liberal types! Most people in Ashton Vale are Bristolians

[chipdawg]

If all those permissions have expired then we would have to submit a completely fresh application which would be assessed under current policy. There is no guarantee whatsoever these would get through planning although it's a much more straight forward proposal than applying for a stadiujm in the green belt!

I would be surprised if the club has not kept that Williams stand consent running. Just to keep the principle of extending the stadium valid.

I'm not 100% sure, but i believe the new nppf essentially says that along as the land use doesn't change, you can redevelop a site subject to conditions. For example, if you have a pub and you want to knock it down and build another pub, the only issues are in the details, i.e. you want to paint it pink or clad it in meta, the council say no. Therefore, if we want to knock a stand down and build another stand, only the specifics of it can be objected to, things like materials used or blocking out light to other premises

[pongo88]

Tom,

Am i right in thinking that Braby was purchased in 2011 by an anonymous buyer?

I spoke to CS after he left Ashton Gate and he told me the most likely outcome in all of this would be to redevelop Ashton Gate.

I know we already have planning permission for the ground as its stated in the planning statement

• Full planning application to replace the Williams (west) stand with a new 11,543 seat stand

(LPA Ref: 98/03708/F), approved 28 July 1999.

• Outline planning application to replace the Wedlock (south) and Dolman (east) stand with new

stands (LPA Ref: 98/03709/P), approved 28 July 1999.

• Application for the renewal of outline planning permission 98/03709/P to replace the Wedlock

(south) and Dolman (east) stand with new stands (LPA Ref: 03/00538/R), approved 09 July

2003.

• Reserved matters application (Ref: 03/00538) for the demolition of the existing Wedlock stand

and the erection of a new three storey 5,000 seater stand with ancillary accommodation (LPA

Ref: 05/00974/M), approved 28 July 2005.

• Application for the renewal of full planning permission 98/03708/F for the demolition of the

Williams (west) stand and construction of a new 11,543 seat stand (LPA Ref: 05/03729/R),

approved 22 February 2006.

I was told however that the pitch would be rotated - which would leave the above applications void. Leaving no plans in the pipe line to redevelop any time soon.

Would be interested to know if anyone has any more info on this.

Unless some extra land is obtained – e.g. the Braby site – redevelopment is always going to be difficult. If the Dolman Stand is replaced the capacity could even go down as a modern stand would have seats with more leg room and the stand couldn’t get any bigger due to lack of space.

A redeveloped Wedlock stand would have planning constraints due to the limited space behind and likely objections from home owner in Raynes Road.

The Atyeo stand can’t get any bigger as a planning application for a larger stand would generate objections from the home owners on Ashton Road. (This is the reason it’s its current size. The original plan was to build a double deck stand)

However, IF Braby has been purchased by anonymous buyer – e.g. Steve Lansdown - and IF the pitch could be rotated, that would be interesting

[bristolcitysweden]

Can I have peoples opinion on building the new stadium in between Jessop Underpass and Smeaton Rd/Cumberland Rd please? I read somewhere that the council was looking at what to do with the hughe brick building close to Nova Scotia (Old tobacco factory?). Brick building could be excellent shopping, conference facilities etc. with the stadium next to it with shortsides on each side of River Avon.

http://awaydays-client.salgo.net/away-ground-guide.html#bristol-city

[Port Said Red]

Can I have peoples opinion on building the new stadium in between Jessop Underpass and Smeaton Rd/Cumberland Rd please? I read somewhere that the council was looking at what to do with the hughe brick building close to Nova Scotia (Old tobacco factory?). Brick building could be excellent shopping, conference facilities etc. with the stadium next to it with shortsides on each side of River Avon.

You mean the area around the bonded warehouse and the garden centre? It's a bit narrow, I am not sure there is room to build anything in there between the road one side and the river on the other.

[Gazred]

Can I have peoples opinion on building the new stadium in between Jessop Underpass and Smeaton Rd/Cumberland Rd please? I read somewhere that the council was looking at what to do with the hughe brick building close to Nova Scotia (Old tobacco factory?). Brick building could be excellent shopping, conference facilities etc. with the stadium next to it with shortsides on each side of River Avon.

http://awaydays-clie...ml#bristol-city

Might just squeeze it in there! River would pose a few engineering problems id imagine. Saying that, isn't it Villa Park that has a stand built over a road, with the road having a tunnel through/underneath the stand? Not impossible but unlikely i guess.

[CiderHider]

This is just a temp set back yes? Please don't tell me it's all over, just look at what sport has done for this country this summer, we cant let them win, we should fight on until its built!

I'll bloody write to the PM about this!!!

[bristolcitysweden]

You mean the area around the bonded warehouse and the garden centre? It's a bit narrow, I am not sure there is room to build anything in there between the road one side and the river on the other.

Stadium should be built on the river. Have a look on the link in my edited post.

Cheers

[GrahamC]

Whilst I like the romantic notion of developing AG, I simply cannot see how a huge new structure can be anything but an eyesore and traffic nightmare . It is a far worse solution for the community, and will take years to achieve as it will need to be involve knocking all stands. It would also make no real sense unless you could buy up all of the houses behind the Atyeo. It could be done, but what a nightmare, and one that will be far less economically viable. I guess we can turn Ashton Vale into a 30,000 space car park.

Even if the original VG inspector rules again that a rubbish tip is a village greek, I am sure the landowner will take it to a higher level. The VG ststus has been targetted by government as an area where people are using it to stop planning and not to preserve genuine VG. A loop hole basically. The inspector will base recommendation on the rules and evidence. That the VG supporters are excited that it is going back to the same person, worries me a bit. Seems they are over confident. Hope they have some ideas that will create some work in the area too, as the area is looking a little downtrodden.

I wonder if the landowner could re open as a rubbish tip ?

Seems to me that there has been an organised inside campaign from the very start to stop this.

Either Bristol City council are monumentally incompetent (and yes, we can all put the punchline to that joke) or their legal person (who is coincidentally now taking "early retirement") has made numerous intentional mistakes in process.

The Green lobby is huge in this City and with the assistance of ludicrous legislation they are going to drag this out for as long as possible.

It does seem remarkable that a Green blogger seems to know every next step before it is announced, doesn't it?

When the original litigant withdraws and yet a substitute is allowed against any legal precedent and outside of the agreed time limits you do start to wonder what exactly is going on here..

[Super]

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/inspector-consider-evidence-second-Ashton-Vale/story-16670274-detail/story.html

YEP IT'S HER!

[Pedrowe]

I was thinking the other day; could the club develop the allotment land to the west of the railway line for a new stadium?

For rather obvious reasons, it is generally difficult to gain planning permission to develop on allotment land. However, in this case, the club have a unique position where they could negotiate at land deal with the landlords (i.e. The Council). This could see a proportion of the Ashton Vale land (equal to the allotment land) being swapped at no cost for the allotment land. Surely, the Council would support this because they want to help the stadium project due to their quite open political support of the scheme. The clear risk, however, is that it would quite contentious with the existing allotment tenants and the green brigade.

As allotments are "technically" an agricultural use, it would be possible to operate this use on the Ashton Vale site without breaching the village green designation, or by needing a further planning consent. Also by virtue of decanting the allotment use to Ashton Vale, it would open up the existing allotment site for redevelopment because there would be nil detriment to the allotment land (and the opportunity to increase provision and improve facilities).

As you can see from the plan below, it is would be quite difficult to fit a stadium on solely the allotment site. It would be necessary therefore to assemble some land to the north (i.e. the car auction/industrial units) to make this a feasible site for a stadium. Obviously these businesses would not simply give up their land on the cheap; although with a site area of 17 hectares it may be possible to rationalise these existing units across the site more efficiently, or provide more valuable land uses, such as retail (which may encourage the existing landlords to redevelop their land). Ultimately, however, this is dependent on current contracts with the tenants of the units which may not be up for renegotiation. There are also likely to be some flooding and access issues (but not insurmountable).

This option is advantageous because it leaves the Ashton Gate site to be redeveloped for a foodstore, thereby retaining a funding stream.

There are quite a lot of pitfalls, but I reckon this could work if the TVG application is ultimately successful.

[TRL]

Can I have peoples opinion on building the new stadium in between Jessop Underpass and Smeaton Rd/Cumberland Rd please? I read somewhere that the council was looking at what to do with the hughe brick building close to Nova Scotia (Old tobacco factory?). Brick building could be excellent shopping, conference facilities etc. with the stadium next to it with shortsides on each side of River Avon.

http://awaydays-clie...ml#bristol-city

No a chance in hell there, there are houses, railway, evnironmental house and Roadways that elevate, a major atery out of the city

[Port Said Red]

No a chance in hell there, there are houses, railway, evnironmental house and Roadways that elevate, a major atery out of the city

Plus anything that spoils the eyeline to the Suspension Bridge will be fiercely opposed

[weeble]

That's correct. They could of said "nope load of rubbish" to them and we would of been in there by now

They could have, but in village green cases the city council have always used the independent inspector route. Not to have done for this case might have opened up a route to judicial review anyway.

[weeble]

When the original litigant withdraws and yet a substitute is allowed against any legal precedent and outside of the agreed time limits you do start to wonder what exactly is going on here..

Actually there was a precedent and it was the judge who heard the judicial review that set it.