Hooligans, We Thank You

[Monkeh]

im only going on personal expierience of mates that have got into cricket through watching 20/20 and 1 day matches....went to the 40 over final last year and your right there wasnt many there....we made up for it by making a bit of a racket though!!

Nothing beats a packed lords watching a England Test Match

[Tall King Blox]

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ABOUT_CRICKET/fielding-positions.pdf

Imagine how long the threads would be if this was a cricket forum, bad enough wiv 442 or whatever

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Seems to be quite a few Thornburians on here, lived there for 20 odd years

Though I was born in Taunton so I'm Somerset too You're out of luck today slart

Im from Thornbury too and had the pleasure of watching Thornbury Town vs Bristol R****s down the mundays.

I got confused because it wasnt until after the match i realised it wasnt a league game

Im actually quite surprised that there are so many city fans this side of the river, just goes to show how s**t R****s are

[Tall King Blox]

JUST FOUND THIS IN WIKIPEDIA, Glad we aint playing them !

Violence in sports

The word hooliganism and hooligan began to be associated with violence in sports, in particular from the 1970s in the UK with football hooliganism. The phenomenon, however, long preceded the modern term; for example, one of the earliest known instances of crowd violence at a sporting event took place in ancient Constantinople. Two chariot racing factions, the Blues and the Greens, were involved in the Nika riots which lasted around a week in 532 CE; nearly half the city was burned or destroyed in addition to tens of thousands of deaths.^[8]

[Bazooka Joe]

The first time I can remember away fans singing behind the goal in the East End was against Wolves (I think). Possibly 1965 ish and an evening ko. (need some help here if anyone can remember it)

I was amazed at how many of them there were, they all sang together throughout the game, knew all the words, and helped their team to victory. It was the Wolves fans showing us how it was done, and they were good!

After that The City East End started to get it together, and the rest is history.

Probably the game that really stands out for me was when Millwall turned up in their full skinhead gear. They congregated at the back of the East End, and had the run of the place without too much resistance. All a bit scarey and the first time I'd seen proper hard core 'fans'.

Yeh it was Wolves. They (a mix of mods, greebos and god-knows-whats) congregated in large numbers behind the goal and then introduced themselves with a load roar followed by "Wanderersssssss,Wandererssssssss,Wandererssssss!!!! Quite impressive. Football suddenly became a lot more interesting

.

It all kicked off big time. A number of Wolves were slammed by some City mental-heads and then tossed over the barriers by the plod for their own safety. They were given a good old fashioned kicking by the coppers (a time when Police brutality was the norm). I was among the City young uns clustered by the front barriers to watch a big Wanderers greebo (wearing a Hell's Angel jacket) get battered by five big nasty coppers, all foaming at the mouth and loving every minute of it. The big gorilla cried like a baby as he was mocked by us whilst being dragged unceremoniously out of the ground.

I also remember a group of Argyle fans in the late 60s coming onto the pitch banging their drums and led by a nutter with, what looked like, an artificial leg. Either that or he was as pissed as a fart. They goaded the City fans and then ran to stand by the police for protection. They didn't get it. The coppers panned them!

Sunderland brought the first massive group of skinheads to the Gate for the opening match of 1969(?) and I remember a particular gang of skinheads from Bedminster and Knowle West (led by the infamous Annie Walsh!) giving them a good battering as they queued to get in the East End. A few cars got dented as City skins clambered over them to get at the Mackems. To be fair to them, once they got into the East End, the Sunderland did ok for a while but were eventually overwhelmed. I don't think they expected the "Wurzels" to be as savage as they were that day.

It was a different world in them days.

[Tom]

JUST FOUND THIS IN WIKIPEDIA, Glad we aint playing them !

Violence in sports

The word hooliganism and hooligan began to be associated with violence in sports, in particular from the 1970s in the UK with football hooliganism. The phenomenon, however, long preceded the modern term; for example, one of the earliest known instances of crowd violence at a sporting event took place in ancient Constantinople. Two chariot racing factions, the Blues and the Greens, were involved in the Nika riots which lasted around a week in 532 CE; nearly half the city was burned or destroyed in addition to tens of thousands of deaths.^[8]

The Green and Blue factions of Constantinople were essentially excuses for violence and segregation. It had little to do with chariot racing in fact, essentially every member of the populace had to declare himself a Blue or a Green (even the emperors). They were essentially non-legitimate political factions that carried out their "justice" in tit for tat gang attacks. The different factions even went so far as to cut their hair differently to distinguish themselves from the other factions, and the streets were anything but safe.

Chariot racing was (just as football was and is) something that certain members of the population used to drive a wedge in the collective harmony. Admittedly the Constantinople example was more pervasive than modern football hooliganism, but the precedents are there and it just goes to show how deplorable the nature of man really is, when excuses need to be made to injure or kill others for an engineered cause.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Yeh it was Wolves. They (a mix of mods, greebos and god-knows-whats) congregated in large numbers behind the goal and then introduced themselves with a load roar followed by "Wanderersssssss,Wandererssssssss,Wandererssssss!!!! Quite impressive. Football suddenly became a lot more interesting

.

It all kicked off big time. A number of Wolves were slammed by some City mental-heads and then tossed over the barriers by the plod for their own safety. They were given a good old fashioned kicking by the coppers (a time when Police brutality was the norm). I was among the City young uns clustered by the front barriers to watch a big Wanderers greebo (wearing a Hell's Angel jacket) get battered by five big nasty coppers, all foaming at the mouth and loving every minute of it. The big gorilla cried like a baby as he was mocked by us whilst being dragged unceremoniously out of the ground.

I also remember a group of Argyle fans in the late 60s coming onto the pitch banging their drums and led by a nutter with, what looked like, an artificial leg. Either that or he was as pissed as a fart. They goaded the City fans and then ran to stand by the police for protection. They didn't get it. The coppers panned them!

Sunderland brought the first massive group of skinheads to the Gate for the opening match of 1969(?) and I remember a particular gang of skinheads from Bedminster and Knowle West (led by the infamous Annie Walsh!) giving them a good battering as they queued to get in the East End. A few cars got dented as City skins clambered over them to get at the Mackems. To be fair to them, once they got into the East End, the Sunderland did ok for a while but were eventually overwhelmed. I don't think they expected the "Wurzels" to be as savage as they were that day.

It was a different world in them days.

yet a flare is deemed as too dangerous, what he has just described is dangerous.

What would you rather being stood near a flare or getting a large amount of away fans enter your half of the stadium? i personally would go with flare as it could warm me up on a cold december afternoon :colder:

[Bazooka Joe]

Thank you for your post, you are one of the few who actually understood the original post,

to be fair a few on here have been belting on about the hooligan element at football today, i do not condone violence in any way,shape or form, though on occasions in the seventies did get mixed up in a few hadbag stand off's

That said my original post was trying to say when the "Ends" came into being the atmosphere at games became exciting, dare i say even enjoyable, and that buzz is still with us today, started mainly by the hooligans, thats all

Quite right mate. All you did was describe what it was like back then.

You, and most other people commenting on your post, do not encourage or condone violence at football. But no-one can deny what you (and I) saw and experienced.

Clearly, things were different. The quality of football was not as good, but the spirit and passion amongst players and fans was more evident than today.

One thing for definite - the noise and atmosphere at matches was far better before all-seater stadiums became fashionable.

[NOTR]

The British have always loved a fight,we didn't get an empire by being jolly nice fellows,we got it by being generaly nasty barstewards.Violence runs through our history,even the old fashioned game as played between villages in the middle ages was extremely violent ,often resorting in deaths,even getting banned by the king(which one I can't remember).

[Jordan Tansley]

Quite right mate. All you did was describe what it was like back then.

You, and most other people commenting on your post, do not encourage or condone violence at football. But no-one can deny what you (and I) saw and experienced.

Clearly, things were different. The quality of football was not as good, but the spirit and passion amongst players and fans was more evident than today.

One thing for definite - the noise and atmosphere at matches was far better before all-seater stadiums became fashionable.

Became the law, you mean?

[slartibartfast]

Yeh it was Wolves. They (a mix of mods, greebos and god-knows-whats) congregated in large numbers behind the goal and then introduced themselves with a load roar followed by "Wanderersssssss,Wandererssssssss,Wandererssssss!!!! Quite impressive. Football suddenly became a lot more interesting

.

It all kicked off big time. A number of Wolves were slammed by some City mental-heads and then tossed over the barriers by the plod for their own safety. They were given a good old fashioned kicking by the coppers (a time when Police brutality was the norm). I was among the City young uns clustered by the front barriers to watch a big Wanderers greebo (wearing a Hell's Angel jacket) get battered by five big nasty coppers, all foaming at the mouth and loving every minute of it. The big gorilla cried like a baby as he was mocked by us whilst being dragged unceremoniously out of the ground.

I also remember a group of Argyle fans in the late 60s coming onto the pitch banging their drums and led by a nutter with, what looked like, an artificial leg. Either that or he was as pissed as a fart. They goaded the City fans and then ran to stand by the police for protection. They didn't get it. The coppers panned them!

Sunderland brought the first massive group of skinheads to the Gate for the opening match of 1969(?) and I remember a particular gang of skinheads from Bedminster and Knowle West (led by the infamous Annie Walsh!) giving them a good battering as they queued to get in the East End. A few cars got dented as City skins clambered over them to get at the Mackems. To be fair to them, once they got into the East End, the Sunderland did ok for a while but were eventually overwhelmed. I don't think they expected the "Wurzels" to be as savage as they were that day.

It was a different world in them days.

!970 first day the Dolman opened, well half of it!

[pongo88]

Ok guys, i know i will be slaughtered for this but i got to get this baby off my chest...

As some of you may know i am not the youngest poster on this forum, and hopefully, not the oldest !

but i see posts on here slaging off the very people that make football what it is today....Yes Hooligans !!!

When i was a babby in the old covered end ( east end for our younger viewers ) it was scarves and rattles

and jolly ho! and people wore badges and stuff on theire scarves, then one day back god i dont remember the year, we played Chelsea in a pre-season i think, point is that they came to the gate all wearing ( in pete townshend style) white boiler suites, and from looking from the covered end i remember they had a football which was kicked onto the pitch, which enveribly was followed by a pitch invasion and an impromptu game followed kicking towards the covered end,(east end), the ball goes in the net then they all jumped the fences and mobbed behind the goal, what followed that day is a bit of a fog cos it went a bit mental, local mods that were there mobbed as far as i remember and i think a few handbags were exchanged ( if you were there please enlighten me cos it's a bloody long time ago, selective memory and all that)....long story short as far as i remember the next home game we had a crew in the east end, comprising of, mods skins and utter nutters from all across bristol.......and we had a voice, for the first time i remember hearing chants at ashton gate!

not the crap that the blue few regurgitated every game " HAROLD " but a new found identity that drew me like a magnet...I immediately became part of the East End, and the rest is history, we fought, we sang, and we stuck together, home and away!......so next time one of you limp wristed tossers have a go at hooligans, remember yer history, and remember, we never wore flares.........thanks for reading...rant well and truely over

I believe that the comments on the forum should be polite and respectful, but I’m afraid that I must say that I think that this is the most stupid post I’ve ever read.

The late 60’s and 70’s hooliganism was nothing like the rose tinted glasses view that some people have. The reality was innocent supporters were stabbed, beaten up and in extreme cases killed. A lot of people stopped going to matches and a lot of potential supporters were lost forever because, when they were children, their parents didn’t feel it was safe to take them.

Anyone who was black had to suffer abuse, even if they supported the same team! A lot of women didn’t feel safe at matches.

An additional, often forgotten, problem lost of revenue. Police costs at matches were high and gate revenue suffered. Never in a million years would football get the income it currently gets from TV if the loony hooligans were still around. Clubs now get a lot of money from corporate hospitality (one reason why City need a better ground). Big business would not spend money to entertain guests if at every match there was a punch-up and a riot.

Who would the shirt sponsors be if hooliganism was still around?

Sorry Kingswood Mask but I’m afraid you need be in the modern world.

[CodeRed]

Clearly, things were different. The quality of football was not as good, but the spirit and passion amongst players and fans was more evident than today.

One thing for definite - the noise and atmosphere at matches was far better before all-seater stadiums became fashionable.

No, No,No !

The quality was MUCH better Chris Crowe-Jantzen Derrick- Hugh McIllmoyle -Chris Garland etc ???? leading on to Gowie, Cheese, Sir Geoff ,Ritchie, Jimmy Mann etc etc

Todays lot doesn't come anywhere near (maybe Albert tho')

[i hate you butler]

I lost a friend a few years ago because of a "little slap" he fell hit his head and it didn't help the thug putting the boot in while on the floor,

Those who think hooligans are harmless and the "let them fight" culture are thestupid ones not those condoneing it,

es there was a lot of trouble yes there was alot of firms but no adays it isn't just a slap and fight in the park there are knifes and all sorts involved,

There was a "litter" scuffle in Burnley a few years ago resulting in some one being stabbed to death thats the terrace culture you miss,

We are alot better off now

Looked it up, it was a forest fan stabbed to death in burnley

wrong

get your facts right you ****

[CodeRed]

I believe that the comments on the forum should be polite and respectful, but I’m afraid that I must say that I think that this is the most stupid post I’ve ever read.

The late 60’s and 70’s hooliganism was nothing like the rose tinted glasses view that some people have. The reality was innocent supporters were stabbed, beaten up and in extreme cases killed. A lot of people stopped going to matches and a lot of potential supporters were lost forever because, when they were children, their parents didn’t feel it was safe to take them.

Anyone who was black had to suffer abuse, even if they supported the same team! A lot of women didn’t feel safe at matches.

An additional, often forgotten, problem lost of revenue. Police costs at matches were high and gate revenue suffered. Never in a million years would football get the income it currently gets from TV if the loony hooligans were still around. Clubs now get a lot of money from corporate hospitality (one reason why City need a better ground). Big business would not spend money to entertain guests if at every match there was a punch-up and a riot.

Who would the shirt sponsors be if hooliganism was still around?

Sorry Kingswood Mask but I’m afraid you need be in the modern world.

Complete rubbish? were you there?

Stabbed, killed, ?? I don't think so . where and when exactly ???

Kids not being taken by parents due to fear? wrong again. everybody I knew went on there own from about the age of 10, caught the bus with 2 bob in their pocket and got on with it... don't judge by today's limp wristed society where kids are ferried everywhere by Mummies in 4x4's.

Women ? they wern't interested in football then, You're judging by the Sky Sports generation where it's become fashionable. Some women went (my wife did, before I met her, with her mates - she never felt at risk) but most others her age just didn't want to know.

Look at any crowd photo pre 1965 (pre Hooliganism) and the crowd is entirely made up of males with young boys at the front, so why didn't women go then? Society was different and they didn't want to go - nothing about fear.

Black people getting abuse - again complete rubbish I've NEVER heard any racism ever at AG

And your last point about Gate revenue - Gates were much higher and police attendance was in fact lower, these days OB overkill means 100 Robocops fully tooled up and 100's more outside for games when everybody knows there's zero risk of anything going off.

Sorry but so much of your post is simply wrong.

[Tall King Blox]

No, No,No !

The quality was MUCH better Chris Crowe-Jantzen Derrick- Hugh McIllmoyle -Chris Garland etc ???? leading on to Gowie, Cheese, Sir Geoff ,Ritchie, Jimmy Mann etc etc

Todays lot doesn't come anywhere near (maybe Albert tho')

Pure Mintness

[Tall King Blox]

The Green and Blue factions of Constantinople were essentially excuses for violence and segregation. It had little to do with chariot racing in fact, essentially every member of the populace had to declare himself a Blue or a Green (even the emperors). They were essentially non-legitimate political factions that carried out their "justice" in tit for tat gang attacks. The different factions even went so far as to cut their hair differently to distinguish themselves from the other factions, and the streets were anything but safe.

Chariot racing was (just as football was and is) something that certain members of the population used to drive a wedge in the collective harmony. Admittedly the Constantinople example was more pervasive than modern football hooliganism, but the precedents are there and it just goes to show how deplorable the nature of man really is, when excuses need to be made to injure or kill others for an engineered cause.

Great post....thanks...i think..gert eloquent mate....so was your reply a thumbs up or down ?

Like "when in rome" etc.

[sglosbcfc]

Complete rubbish? were you there?

Stabbed, killed, ?? I don't think so . where and when exactly ???

Kids not being taken by parents due to fear? wrong again. everybody I knew went on there own from about the age of 10, caught the bus with 2 bob in their pocket and got on with it... don't judge by today's limp wristed society where kids are ferried everywhere by Mummies in 4x4's.

Women ? they wern't interested in football then, You're judging by the Sky Sports generation where it's become fashionable. Some women went (my wife did, before I met her, with her mates - she never felt at risk) but most others her age just didn't want to know.

Look at any crowd photo pre 1965 (pre Hooliganism) and the crowd is entirely made up of males with young boys at the front, so why didn't women go then? Society was different and they didn't want to go - nothing about fear.

Black people getting abuse - again complete rubbish I've NEVER heard any racism ever at AG

And your last point about Gate revenue - Gates were much higher and police attendance was in fact lower, these days OB overkill means 100 Robocops fully tooled up and 100's more outside for games when everybody knows there's zero risk of anything going off.

Sorry but so much of your post is simply wrong.

Wow, are you sure??? I haven't heard any racism in the past twenty years but it used to be so common. Black players were regularly 'treated' to monkey chants during matches. In the 80s when Rovers had Devon White, Saunders etc, hundreds of City fans would chant "City are white, City are white". I remember things starting to change in the early 90s, an away game at Palace or Charlton. Coming out of the game with hundreds of City fans and there was some young black children looking out of an open flat window, a City fan began to shout vile racist abuse and looked around for other City fans to laugh or join in but he was met with complete tumble-weed, even his mate look embarrassed. Ten years previous to that I am sure he would have had a choir.

[i hate you butler]

Wow, are you sure??? I haven't heard any racism in the past twenty years but it used to be so common. Black players were regularly 'treated' to monkey chants during matches. In the 80s when Rovers had Devon White, Saunders etc, hundreds of City fans would chant "City are white, City are white". I remember things starting to change in the early 90s, an away game at Palace or Charlton. Coming out of the game with hundreds of City fans and there was some young black children looking out of an open flat window, a City fan began to shout vile racist abuse and looked around for other City fans to laugh or join in but he was met with complete tumble-weed, even his mate look embarrassed. Ten years previous to that I am sure he would have had a choir.

cant recall any "city are white" chants at all

only ditty referring to mr white was to do with his neighbour

so there!!!

[Manon]

[sglosbcfc]

cant recall any "city are white" chants at all

only ditty referring to mr white was to do with his neighbour

so there!!!

I can assure you that was a 'popular' chant for a few seasons when Rovers had a few black players and we had none (I know we had Steve Rambo Johnson for a season in the mid eighties). The last thing I want to do is slag off City fans, but it is undeniable that City, like many clubs, had a racist element in the past. Before any of the 'family club' pipe up, I also remember the Star in Soundwell (now renamed) proudly displaying Gas National Front slogans for years.

[Sixtyseconds]

I can assure you that was a 'popular' chant for a few seasons when Rovers had a few black players and we had none (I know we had Steve Rambo Johnson for a season in the mid eighties). The last thing I want to do is slag off City fans, but it is undeniable that City, like many clubs, had a racist element in the past. Before any of the 'family club' pipe up, I also remember the Star in Soundwell (now renamed) proudly displaying Gas National Front slogans for years.

Gas had a NF support well known. Devon White used to get it but it was hardly like other clubs. City had hooligans in the seventies and onwards who were clearly not just honkies.

[ashtonphil]

Black people getting abuse - again complete rubbish I've NEVER heard any racism ever at AG

You're winding me up aren't you???

I've heard Jacki being abused for his nationality, you p+++sh etc etc and recently I know people were reported and banned for racist remarks.

You must go to football with earmuffs on!!!!!!

Being a child of the 80s (ish) I am against violence and have never been involved in any, however still miss standing at matches and I sort of understand what KM's trying to elude to. Football is tribal, we are all passionate about BCFC, but 99% wouldn't get involved in trouble nor do we condone it.

Football has changed and as a parent I am happy to take my son to the Gate watch City, would have I taken him back in the day when my dad took me???

I would have but society has changed and there are different dangers in the world, that we were blissfully unaware of back then.

[redcityman]

cant recall any "city are white" chants at all

only ditty referring to mr white was to do with his neighbour

so there!!!

Either you're burying your head in the sand or have hearing problems, but I can certainly remember the chant go around the ground of " we ain't go no N words" on regular occasions when visiting teams had a coloured player during the eighties.

[sglosbcfc]

Black people getting abuse - again complete rubbish I've NEVER heard any racism ever at AG

You're winding me up aren't you???

I've heard Jacki being abused for his nationality, you p+++sh etc etc and recently I know people were reported and banned for racist remarks.

You must go to football with earmuffs on!!!!!!

Being a child of the 80s (ish) I am against violence and have never been involved in any, however still miss standing at matches and I sort of understand what KM's trying to elude to. Football is tribal, we are all passionate about BCFC, but 99% wouldn't get involved in trouble nor do we condone it.

Football has changed and as a parent I am happy to take my son to the Gate watch City, would have I taken him back in the day when my dad took me??? Probably because for 99% it was safe...

My dad took me to football throughout the 80s and I was completely unscathed, however, that was mostly down to luck and my dad's skills at avoiding dodgy situations. Many a time I can remember him shielding me from missiles with his big sheepskin coat and us making a dash for safety. Grounds are much safer now than in the past but the atmosphere is nowhere near as good now.

[pongo88]

Complete rubbish? were you there?

Stabbed, killed, ?? I don't think so . where and when exactly ???

Kids not being taken by parents due to fear? wrong again. everybody I knew went on there own from about the age of 10, caught the bus with 2 bob in their pocket and got on with it... don't judge by today's limp wristed society where kids are ferried everywhere by Mummies in 4x4's.

Women ? they wern't interested in football then, You're judging by the Sky Sports generation where it's become fashionable. Some women went (my wife did, before I met her, with her mates - she never felt at risk) but most others her age just didn't want to know.

Look at any crowd photo pre 1965 (pre Hooliganism) and the crowd is entirely made up of males with young boys at the front, so why didn't women go then? Society was different and they didn't want to go - nothing about fear.

Black people getting abuse - again complete rubbish I've NEVER heard any racism ever at AG

And your last point about Gate revenue - Gates were much higher and police attendance was in fact lower, these days OB overkill means 100 Robocops fully tooled up and 100's more outside for games when everybody knows there's zero risk of anything going off.

Sorry but so much of your post is simply wrong.

1) Was I there? The answer is yes.

2) “Stabbed, killed, ?? I don't think so. where and when exactly ???”

Have a look at this clip. In case you can’t be bothered to watch it gives one example of Wolves v Man Utd when 14 people were stabbed after the match. 14 AT ONE MATCH! Weapons collected after the match included an axe, a meat cleaver, knives, scissors daggers, darts. If you care to check there are numerous cases of hooligan related deaths.

3) “Black people getting abuse - again complete rubbish I've NEVER heard any racism ever at AG”

Racism was rife at all grounds during the 70’s, 80’s.

Gates may have been higher than now in the 70’s but they were lower than the 1950’s and 60’s when there was little hooliganism. Today’s gates are affected by a lot of factors including lack of standing, higher costs and people having a lot of other interest.

Policing cost are much lower now due to the higher number of club’s own stewards used. This would have been impossible in the hooligan era.

[Tom]

Great post....thanks...i think..gert eloquent mate....so was your reply a thumbs up or down ?

Like "when in rome" etc.

Welcome. Have to use the degree sometimes!

My reply is a thumbs down for any kind of unnecessary violence and I think it has no place not only in football but beyond, but I think you knew that really.

Constantinople is modern day Istanbul, but it was the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire (Also known as the Byzantine empire after the former name of Constantinople - Byzantium), so I'll let you off.

[pongo88]

You had my attention until you got to the fourth paragraph...then you start talking about lost revenues, corporate boxes and shirt sponsors. Oh dear. Here we have a product of the sky sports generation. Money money money. No wonder people enjoy hearing about the 'good old days'. They really were just that in football's case.

I am definitely not a product of the Sky Sports generation. I started watching football in the 60’s when John Atyeo was playing for £20 a week. I enjoyed the football then but I don’t live in the past.

Like it or lump it, today clubs need TV money, shirt sponsorship and corporate hospitality. A lot of the money goes to the players on high wages but some does flow down to ground improvements etc. Ashton Gate hasn’t improved much over the years but many other clubs, inc those from lower leagues, have new grounds.

If we were still living with the1970’s hooligan culture would Steve Lansdown be prepared to put many millions of pounds into the club? I don’t think so.

[Sixtyseconds]

[Otter1991]

I heard racial abuse at Ashton Gate as recently as the Blackburn Rovers game.