The 'pleb' Affair.....

[Mr Mosquito]

As I said when this story first broke, bolshy coppers with a political agenda. Their attempt to de-stabilise a democratically elected government, like them or not, is an absolute disgrace. In a different era those coppers fabricating evidence, as seems all too common these days, would have been sent to the Tower and forgotten about. Another step towards a police state.

I totally agree with your sentiments. The Police have certainly raised the ball game with this incident and this incident is but the tip of a huge iceberg with regard to Police fabricating and embelishing statements to get their way or to get a malicious prosecution.

[Mr Mosquito]

Acted like a free individual by losing his temper and displaying his class prejudice towards someone (an ordinary woman PC who would've been on much less than the figure you quote) he obviously thinks is below him???!

He acted like a prat, but it wasn't a big deal and that wasn't what cost him his job. What cost him his job is - like many politicians - he just couldn't be honest about what he said. Instead he tried to suggest that the two police constables who witnessed the tirade were lying.

Now, I've been around enough to realise that coppers write all sorts of fantasy in their notebooks, but in this case I firmly believe the female plod. The reasons are manifold:

A) She had no reason to lie. It was a minor incident, Mitchell accepted a verbal caution and departed without making any further hassle.

B) Even his own friends say it is the sort of thing he might say. As a bad tempered snob, it had his hallmarks.

C) Had it be a fantasy, the PC might try to make up all sorts of coarse language that 'Thrasher' had used, but she would be unlikely to put 'pleb'.

D) A strong rumour suggests it came to press attention when Mitchell himself told a parliamentary colleague about it, this colleague passed the story on and soon it found its way, to the media.

For all these reasons, it was his own party's 1922 Committee who 'resigned' him.

I remember the time when the Police were the darlings of the Tory Party and they went in, knowingly and willingly, as Maggie Thatcher's bootboys to crush the striking miners by any and all means necessary. I'd always been brought up to believe that we had a free society and that our Police and our criminal justice system was the best in the world - honest, fair and dedicated to upholding the law. I've had a few terrifying glimpses of Britain as a Police state, and the senior Tories themselves - including Andrew Mitchell - are, at last, now seeing the bigger picture of the corruption that our Police and their CPS lawyer masters are capable of.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I totally agree with your sentiments. The Police have certainly raised the ball game with this incident and this incident is but the tip of a huge iceberg with regard to Police fabricating and embelishing statements to get their way or to get a malicious prosecution.

Yeah and of course they were the one's who forced us into the EU in the first place, took us into 2 illegal wars, falsified evidence against all of those innocent duck house owning poor mp's and bailed out their banker mates.

Sometime RG you talk some utter shite, I would have thought that this would right up your street the old bill suddenly distancing itself from it's former political masters (your new heroes the tories) I think you need to look at the politicians first they are the ones bleeding us dry and once the we have an honest accountable government for once, sort the old bill out later.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I remember the time when the Police were the darlings of the Tory Party and they went in, knowingly and willingly, as Maggie Thatcher's bootboys to crush the striking miners by any and all means necessary. I'd always been brought up to believe that we had a free society and that our Police and our criminal justice system was the best in the world - honest, fair and dedicated to upholding the law. I've had a few terrifying glimpses of Britain as a Police state, and the senior Tories themselves - including Andrew Mitchell - are, at last, now seeing the bigger picture of the corruption that our Police and their CPS lawyer masters are capable of.

A corruption they created FFS.

[Mr Mosquito]

A corruption they created FFS.

The Met Police were known to be corrupt long before Maggie Thatcher. Read: ‘Bent for the job’: A short history of police corruption at the link below....pretty good reading......

http://thejusticegap.com/News/bent-for-the-job-a-short-history-of-police-corruption/

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The Met Police were known to be corrupt long before Maggie Thatcher. Read: ‘Bent for the job’: A short history of police corruption at the link below....pretty good reading......

http://thejusticegap.com/News/bent-for-the-job-a-short-history-of-police-corruption/

That's the problem RG, should have stayed with the beano, dandy or topper, you might have made more sense.

[marshy]

Yeah and of course they were the one's who forced us into the EU in the first place, took us into 2 illegal wars, falsified evidence against all of those innocent duck house owning poor mp's and bailed out their banker mates.

Sometime RG you talk some utter shite, I would have thought that this would right up your street the old bill suddenly distancing itself from it's former political masters (your new heroes the tories) I think you need to look at the politicians first they are the ones bleeding us dry and once the we have an honest accountable government for once, sort the old bill out later.

Well, firstly it was a Common Market and not an EU that we voted to join. The illegal wars were the responsibility of the Labour Party.

As far as I recall there was only one duck house owning MP exposed by that Tory rag the Telegraph but just as many Labour politicians were exposed as Tories, including that serial 2nd home switcher Ed Balls who had a large part to play in the mess left to the coalition and who now thinks he knows the way out of the mess he helped create. Also I believe that it was Gordon Brown, Labour PM who bailed out his banker mates. Not that any of this is relevant to so-called 'Plebgate'. Your 'analysis' is bizarre.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Well, firstly it was a Common Market and not an EU that we voted to join. The illegal wars were the responsibility of the Labour Party.

As far as I recall there was only one duck house owning MP exposed by that Tory rag the Telegraph but just as many Labour politicians were exposed as Tories, including that serial 2nd home switcher Ed Balls who had a large part to play in the mess left to the coalition and who now thinks he knows the way out of the mess he helped create. Also I believe that it was Gordon Brown, Labour PM who bailed out his banker mates. Not that any of this is relevant to so-called 'Plebgate'. Your 'analysis' is bizarre.

Excuse me not an analysis but a response to RG's ridiculous ramblings and unbalanced anti police stance, sort the politicians (whatever persuasion they are) out first and once that is right let them sort the old bill out, it's really that simple.

Plebgate is shitty mess and as I said before it's one lying politician v one lying policeman, the others (the one's that were actually there) should have nicked him, most football fans would have been nicked.

PS:- Thanks for the history lesson.

[marshy]

Excuse me not an analysis but a response to RG's ridiculous ramblings and unbalanced anti police stance, sort the politicians (whatever persuasion they are) out first and once that is right let them sort the old bill out, it's really that simple.

Plebgate is shitty mess and as I said before it's one lying politician v one lying policeman, the others (the one's that were actually there) should have nicked him, most football fans would have been nicked.

PS:- Thanks for the history lesson.

My pleasure. Nothing personal.

It will, however, be interesting to see whether it was just one lying officer.

Politicians on the fiddle, coppers falsifying evidence, a smug smart ass like Schofield still in work, what the hell is happening to this country ?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

My pleasure. Nothing personal.

It will, however, be interesting to see whether it was just one lying officer.

Politicians on the fiddle, coppers falsifying evidence, a smug smart ass like Schofield still in work, what the hell is happening to this country ?

Well whatever you think of the police their dealing of the fall out from this has been nothing if not even handed, they have quite rightly arrested the originator of the email to the mp but are standing by the gate log, as I said earlier a silent CCTV proves very little apart from the alleged crowd of public watching the unfolding event, there is no way that anybody could prove or disprove what or what was not said, apart for the fact that they should have nicked him it would have made everything easier from the outset.

[Barrs Court Red]

When I seize power, special military units will take over the role of policing.

Problem solved.

[marshy]

Well whatever you think of the police their dealing of the fall out from this has been nothing if not even handed, they have quite rightly arrested the originator of the email to the mp but are standing by the gate log, as I said earlier a silent CCTV proves very little apart from the alleged crowd of public watching the unfolding event, there is no way that anybody could prove or disprove what or what was not said, apart for the fact that they should have nicked him it would have made everything easier from the outset.

If we are innocent until proven guilty there hardly seems to be any point arresting someone if ''there is no way that anybody could prove or disprove what or what was not said.''

Police investigating themselves....mmmm. Let's hope they do a good job.

[Red-Robbo]

My take on this is though they'll no doubt throw the book at the copper who 'sexed up' the evidence and relesed the policelogs, Mitchell was rude and arrogant and dismissive of people just doing their jobs. We know this because he's admitted to all this, and apologised for it.

Now, no policeman made him lose his job. The 1922 Committee asked - under heavy threat - him to resign. They did this as far as I can tell because no-one likes the bloke: Hence the gleeful repitition of this tale around Westminster and its leaking to the press.

And he hasn't exactly lost his job anyway. He just lost his government position - he still has his MPs salary of £65,000 + far more in expenses. I expect the poor lamb will cope on that, what with being a multi-millionaire's son and having a substantial income from his other jobs.

He seems to be economising as it is, by cutting his own hair with the aid of a pudding basin.

Well done Andrew. We're all in it together....

[Esmond Million's Bung]

If we are innocent until proven guilty there hardly seems to be any point arresting someone if ''there is no way that anybody could prove or disprove what or what was not said.''

Police investigating themselves....mmmm. Let's hope they do a good job.

So that means, that you are saying that without any independent witnesses whatsoever in any case, the police should not be allowed to arrest anyone and of course that also depends on the fact should there be an independent witness that the said witness actually wants to become involved?.

That'll work let's start a campaign for that to become law.

Picture the scene the police arrive at your home and there is somebody running out of the front door, police officer 'what are you doing' 'i've killed everybody in that house including the pets', police officer ' oh shit, he's innocent until proven guilty, without any grounds for arrest, I will have to let him go, have a nice day sir'.

[marshy]

So that means, that you are saying that without any independent witnesses whatsoever in any case, the police should not be allowed to arrest anyone and of course that also depends on the fact should there be an independent witness that the said witness actually wants to become involved?.

That'll work let's start a campaign for that to become law.

Picture the scene the police arrive at your home and there is somebody running out of the front door, police officer 'what are you doing' 'i've killed everybody in that house including the pets', police officer ' oh shit, he's innocent until proven guilty, without any grounds for arrest, I will have to let him go, have a nice day sir'.

Well we are certainly moving towards a situation where distrust of the police is such that I would be highly suspicious of any conviction based upon what an officer alleges he saw or heard without corroborating evidence.

Other than that the example you give is clearly risible.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Well we are certainly moving towards a situation where distrust of the police is such that I would be highly suspicious of any conviction based upon what an officer alleges he saw or heard without corroborating evidence.

Other than that the example you give is clearly risible.

OK, so before we actually change the law then, perhaps we should come up with a better solution?, so over to you with that one.

I suspect you would not advocate all police officers wearing cameras at all times?.

[Red-Robbo]

Mitchell has admitted he swore at the two officers on duty, he just denied he used the word 'pleb' - and it now appears that bit was manufactured by this copper who wasn't at the scene.

Now every year, several thousand people are charged with public order offences for swearing at police officers - and no third party verification is needed, just the officer's say-so for conviction. So instead of bleating, Mitchell perhaps should've felt lucky that he was just verbally cautioned rather than arrested for the offence he admits he committed.

Perhaps, the police 'sexed up' the exchange between him and the officers because they knew there was no way the Met hierarchy and the judicial system would treat an offence committed by a public school educated investment banker and government minister the same as it would had that offence had been committed by, say, someone queueing to get into Ashton Gate.

[Gazred]

Mitchell has admitted he swore at the two officers on duty, he just denied he used the word 'pleb' - and it now appears that bit was manufactured by this copper who wasn't at the scene.

Now every year, several thousand people are charged with public order offences for swearing at police officers - and no third party verification is needed, just the officer's say-so for conviction. So instead of bleating, Mitchell perhaps should've felt lucky that he was just verbally cautioned rather than arrested for the offence he admits he committed.

Perhaps, the police 'sexed up' the exchange between him and the officers because they knew there was no way the Met hierarchy and the judicial system would treat an offence committed by a public school educated investment banker and government minister the same as it would had that offence had been committed by, say, someone queueing to get into Ashton Gate.

I think thats as close to the facts of the matter as anyone could get. I would suggest anyone who disagrees, does as RR suggests and tells a copper to f-off (adding pleb is optional and is probably unnecessary)and see what happens.

[Mr Mosquito]

My pleasure. Nothing personal.

It will, however, be interesting to see whether it was just one lying officer.

Politicians on the fiddle, coppers falsifying evidence, a smug smart ass like Schofield still in work, what the hell is happening to this country ?

The latest news is that there's been another arrest and there's an investigation examining the possibility of a "conspiracy" to smear Mr Mitchell and that this latest arrest is part of a "large scale and complex investigation". As per the link below......

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/plebgate-second-arrest-over-mitchell-row-102844895.html#d3sHAZT

My thoughts on this are that certain Police may have been inciting a coup d'état where our elected government was to be brought down because Police don't agree with our elected government's policies on cuts to Police budgets and salaries.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The latest news is that there's been another arrest and there's an investigation examining the possibility of a "conspiracy" to smear Mr Mitchell and that this latest arrest is part of a "large scale and complex investigation". As per the link below......

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/plebgate-second-arrest-over-mitchell-row-102844895.html#d3sHAZT

My thoughts on this are that certain Police may have been inciting a coup d'état where our elected government was to be brought down because Police don't agree with our elected government's policies on cuts to Police budgets and salaries.

You are officially mental.

[Mr Mosquito]

You are officially mental.

....there's a lot that you don't know.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

....there's a lot that you don't know.

That's just the voices in your head, keep taking the medication.

[Mr Mosquito]

That's just the voices in your head, keep taking the medication.

Mock and pillory me, I'd certainly vote for the foul mouthed Tory Toff Andrew Mitchell - his interpretation of freedom of speech and expression certainly meets with my approval.

My original sentiments on this topic related to the bare faced cheek of Ken Mackaill, chair of the West Mercia Police Federation, calling for the foul mouthed Tory Toff - now former minister - Andrew Mitchell to be sacked !!!!! The bare faced cheek of a gobshite West Mercia Police spokesman - with absolutely no popular democratic mandate - calling for the resignation of an elected Government minister !!!!!! Does Ken Mackaill and his West Mercia Police force believe themselves to be beyond reproach for the number of corrupt Toff CPS lawyers that do their bidding ????!!! Why haven't the West Mercia Police arrested the corrupt former Labour Party Home Secretary Jacqui Smith - that resides in their force area - for fraudulent expense claims from our taxes?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Mock and pillory me, I'd certainly vote for the foul mouthed Tory Toff Andrew Mitchell - his interpretation of freedom of speech and expression certainly meets with my approval.

My original sentiments on this topic related to the bare faced cheek of Ken Mackaill, chair of the West Mercia Police Federation, calling for the foul mouthed Tory Toff - now former minister - Andrew Mitchell to be sacked !!!!! The bare faced cheek of a gobshite West Mercia Police spokesman - with absolutely no popular democratic mandate - calling for the resignation of an elected Government minister !!!!!! Does Ken Mackaill and his West Mercia Police force believe themselves to be beyond reproach for the number of corrupt Toff CPS lawyers that do their bidding ????!!! Why haven't the West Mercia Police arrested the corrupt former Labour Party Home Secretary Jacqui Smith - that resides in their force area - for fraudulent expense claims from our taxes?

and the first sentence is the problem, you cherry pick individuals from all over the political spectrum, all of whom either say or do something that aligns itself with your weird political mumbo jumbo, you do not and would not care about the greater good but only that in some way they say or do something that you agree with.

Can I suggest that instead of talking about whatever you talk about but usually ends up carrying a reference to Oliver Cromwell, you actually take some sort of action, like make a formal complaint to the West Mercia Police and the CPS about how you feel justice has not been served and that they should investigate the matter thoroughly and report back to you with their findings, after all the Met have got 30 officers working on plebgate, hopefully if they are going to serve the justice that you feel has failed in the Jaqui Smith case, you would like to see Mitchell arrested and charged with a public order offence? or because that dosen't suit your ideals concerning a new hero of yours, perhaps not, you could even write to one of the newspapers about your plebgate theory they will love it.

You rant a lot but do nothing, now is your chance.

PS:-keep us all updated, it's always entertaining.

[Mr Mosquito]

and the first sentence is the problem, you cherry pick individuals from all over the political spectrum, all of whom either say or do something that aligns itself with your weird political mumbo jumbo, you do not and would not care about the greater good but only that in some way they say or do something that you agree with.

Can I suggest that instead of talking about whatever you talk about but usually ends up carrying a reference to Oliver Cromwell, you actually take some sort of action, like make a formal complaint to the West Mercia Police and the CPS about how you feel justice has not been served and that they should investigate the matter thoroughly and report back to you with their findings, after all the Met have got 30 officers working on plebgate, hopefully if they are going to serve the justice that you feel has failed in the Jaqui Smith case, you would like to see Mitchell arrested and charged with a public order offence? or because that dosen't suit your ideals concerning a new hero of yours, perhaps not, you could even write to one of the newspapers about your plebgate theory they will love it.

You rant a lot but do nothing, now is your chance.

PS:-keep us all updated, it's always entertaining.

For someone that constantly refers to me and my posts as 'mental', 'utter shite' and 'drivel' etc you do seem rather interested in my viewpoints for whatever reason. The picture that's emerging from the 'Plebgate' affair is that Andrew Mitchell is honest in admitting gobbing off to the Met's Diplomatic Police and that the Police have embelished what occurred/ was said to put Andrew Mitchell in the worst possible light - a classic Police tactic to get their way. It's backfired bigtime on the Police and the eyes of the media world are now watching.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

For someone that constantly refers to me and my posts as 'mental', 'utter shite' and 'drivel' etc you do seem rather interested in my viewpoints for whatever reason. The picture that's emerging from the 'Plebgate' affair is that Andrew Mitchell is honest in admitting gobbing off to the Met's Diplomatic Police and that the Police have embelished what occurred/ was said to put Andrew Mitchell in the worst possible light - a classic Police tactic to get their way. It's backfired bigtime on the Police and the eyes of the media world are now watching.

The long and short of it is Mitchell committed an offence AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED.

I am interested in your posts because they are rambling and funny, but as I say it's about time you stopped ranting about stuff and start taking action.

[marshy]

OK, so before we actually change the law then, perhaps we should come up with a better solution?, so over to you with that one.

I suspect you would not advocate all police officers wearing cameras at all times?.

In the present climate that's probably not as absurd an idea as it sounds. They certainly need to do something to restore the public's trust in the force. Although as I believe we have more CCTV cameras per head of population than anywhere in the world we seem to have most angles covered already, witness the coverage of the 'Plebgate Affair'.

As I see it there are two main issues here. Firstly, the issue of public trust in the force and the totally unacceptable practice of falsifying evidence to gain a prosecution. Secondly, the politicizing of a force which should be beyond politics. It is clear that certain sections of the force are now highly politicized. Police officers should not be calling for the resignation of elected ministers, they should not be demonstrating with their 'pleb' tee-shirts, they should not be attempting to de-stabilise a democratically elected government by apparently falsifying their log of events. Whether they acted as agents provocateurs in the first instance against Mitchell is open to question.

While I do not believe that the police could ever stage a coup d'etat, as has been mentioned, the next step up from a politicized police force is a politicized military. Fortunately our armed forces are acting with a lot more dignity than sections of the police at present.

[Mr Mosquito]

In the present climate that's probably not as absurd an idea as it sounds. They certainly need to do something to restore the public's trust in the force. Although as I believe we have more CCTV cameras per head of population than anywhere in the world we seem to have most angles covered already, witness the coverage of the 'Plebgate Affair'.

As I see it there are two main issues here. Firstly, the issue of public trust in the force and the totally unacceptable practice of falsifying evidence to gain a prosecution. Secondly, the politicizing of a force which should be beyond politics. It is clear that certain sections of the force are now highly politicized. Police officers should not be calling for the resignation of elected ministers, they should not be demonstrating with their 'pleb' tee-shirts, they should not be attempting to de-stabilise a democratically elected government by apparently falsifying their log of events. Whether they acted as agents provocateurs in the first instance against Mitchell is open to question.

While I do not believe that the police could ever stage a coup d'etat, as has been mentioned, the next step up from a politicized police force is a politicized military. Fortunately our armed forces are acting with a lot more dignity than sections of the police at present.

That's a very thoughtful post. Well done for highlighting the two main issues, especially the way Police falsify evidence to gain a prosecution to suit their agenda - whatever that agenda maybe at the time.

[Mr Mosquito]

The long and short of it is Mitchell committed an offence AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED.

I am interested in your posts because they are rambling and funny, but as I say it's about time you stopped ranting about stuff and start taking action.

Andrew Mitchell should never have been arrested. There are a great many people - including football supporters - that have been set up by corrupt Police. You might see my posts as a bit of a rambling joke but it's no joke if you're up in court on the evidence of bent coppers. Be assured, action is being taken - and will continue to be taken - against corrupt Police and CPS lawyers - most notably at present over the Hillsbrough cover-up.

My own Grandfather served with RAF Bomber Command and I'll never forget him telling me of how word got back to England of how downed and helpless RAF Bomber crews were being beaten up and murdered by German Gestapo Police. The German Gestapo paid a terrible price in the city of Dresden as one of the primary targets was the Dresden Gestapo HQ and it got wiped off the face off the Earth with the RAF heavy bomber raid of February 1945.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

In the present climate that's probably not as absurd an idea as it sounds. They certainly need to do something to restore the public's trust in the force. Although as I believe we have more CCTV cameras per head of population than anywhere in the world we seem to have most angles covered already, witness the coverage of the 'Plebgate Affair'.

As I see it there are two main issues here. Firstly, the issue of public trust in the force and the totally unacceptable practice of falsifying evidence to gain a prosecution. Secondly, the politicizing of a force which should be beyond politics. It is clear that certain sections of the force are now highly politicized. Police officers should not be calling for the resignation of elected ministers, they should not be demonstrating with their 'pleb' tee-shirts, they should not be attempting to de-stabilise a democratically elected government by apparently falsifying their log of events. Whether they acted as agents provocateurs in the first instance against Mitchell is open to question.

While I do not believe that the police could ever stage a coup d'etat, as has been mentioned, the next step up from a politicized police force is a politicized military. Fortunately our armed forces are acting with a lot more dignity than sections of the police at present.

You know what I agree with you.

and if you substitute the word politicians for the word police in the 1st sentence of your 2nd paragraph I think we are making progress. The former government did exactly the same with evidence to invade Iraq and many other decisions they made whilst in government and this present government are little better, so perhaps the police are just trying to emulate their former political puppet masters.

As I said in 2 previous posts, firstly we need to clean up politics to regain (as you said) public trust, when that is achieved then will be the time to reform the police, it cannot be done the other way around because politicians have proved that they cannot be trusted to do this without having their own agendas indoctrinated into the police and you will end up with a fully politicised police force, which I have to say is already on the way with these elected police commissioners, a gimmick doomed to failure.

The good news is again as I said previously the plebgate spat has at least driven a wedge between the cosy post Thatcher tory/police love in, although again I have to say I see trouble ahead when this governments cuts really start to bite and the strikes, mass protests and rioting starts again, the tories will have a little more cosying up to do to the police.