Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 What I love about this discussion is nobody has alluded to the real problem here and that is over the past 5 years, BCFC have paid well over the odds for 2 strikers (because in general that is the case with strikers), neither of whom are renown for their work rate but both had an exceptional scoring rate and what happened?, well the 2 managers who signed these players then set about a mind boggling experiment to suddenly convert these guys into team players and DMC carried on that fine piece of work on his arrival and the result both times is BCFC lose a ridiculous amount of money in fees and wages and then have to send back the damaged goods from whence they came for nothing. The sad thing is DMC seems hell bent on the other mind boggling 5 year old experiment of turning Skuse and Elliott into a functioning midfield unit and the likely outcome will be Baldock eventually returning to MK Dons as damaged goods and DMC ending up having signed his own death warrant. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 What I love about this discussion is nobody has alluded to the real problem here and that is over the past 5 years, BCFC have paid well over the odds for 2 strikers (because in general that is the case with strikers), neither of whom are renown for their work rate but both had an exceptional scoring rate and what happened?, well the 2 managers who signed these players then set about a mind boggling experiment to suddenly convert these guys into team players and DMC carried on that fine piece of work on his arrival and the result both times is BCFC lose a ridiculous amount of money in fees and wages and then have to send back the damaged goods from whence they came for nothing. The sad thing is DMC seems hell bent on the other mind boggling 5 year old experiment of turning Skuse and Elliott into a functioning midfield unit and the likely outcome will be Baldock eventually returning to MK Dons as damaged goods and DMC ending up having signed his own death warrant. IMO of course. Said that earlier in the thread why sign strikers if we've not got players to play to there strengths, midfield is the problem and always will be till we sort it. We sign 2 strikers and gives us 5 and then play 1 up front. Just a total waste of money as usual by the club, instead of thinking we need to long term sort this we chuck money at forwards instead of sorting the problem behind the forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 What I love about this discussion is nobody has alluded to the real problem here and that is over the past 5 years, BCFC have paid well over the odds for 2 strikers (because in general that is the case with strikers), neither of whom are renown for their work rate but both had an exceptional scoring rate and what happened?, well the 2 managers who signed these players then set about a mind boggling experiment to suddenly convert these guys into team players and DMC carried on that fine piece of work on his arrival and the result both times is BCFC lose a ridiculous amount of money in fees and wages and then have to send back the damaged goods from whence they came for nothing. The sad thing is DMC seems hell bent on the other mind boggling 5 year old experiment of turning Skuse and Elliott into a functioning midfield unit and the likely outcome will be Baldock eventually returning to MK Dons as damaged goods and DMC ending up having signed his own death warrant. IMO of course. Said that earlier in the thread why sign strikers if we've not got players to play to there strengths, midfield is the problem and always will be till we sort it. We sign 2 strikers and gives us 5 and then play 1 up front. Just a total waste of money as usual by the club, instead of thinking we need to long term sort this we chuck money at forwards instead of sorting the problem behind the forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pitman can finish that's all there is to his game He has a poor work ethic no pace can't head does not track back and doesn't work for the team That's why he hasn't featured Baldock is twice the player he is But that's what we bought him for to finish chances, that's a strikers job. We signed Baldock to do same thing and now he's been dropped for a striker with 1 goal all season (penalty) Total madness unless we've the players to create chances we could have Rooney and van Persie up front and we still wouldn't score for the ball won't get played to them. We've a winger in adomah who spends most of his time covering the full back he's in front of, hardly ever makes off ball runs past the full back and can't cross. How is that going to create chances, same on the left Pearson and woolford spend all the time on pitch covering the lb. We've skuse and Elliott who can't pass or if they do sideways or back to the defence. Until the teams formation and mind set is changed and we play to our strikers strengths no matter who we've got up front we aren't going to score many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpage Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Listening to Pitman's interview on the Bournemouth website, the move is a permanent one to be confirmed in January. He talks about the rest of this season and next season at Bournemouth, so clearly has no intention of returning. Say's he got on well with McInnes but it didn't work out. We know why, don't we? He is not quite good enough for the Championship. We have four decent strikers at the club, and if a fifth is needed for the bench because of injuries, he should come from the Academy set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Listening to Pitman's interview on the Bournemouth website, the move is a permanent one to be confirmed in January. He talks about the rest of this season and next season at Bournemouth, so clearly has no intention of returning. Say's he got on well with McInnes but it didn't work out. We know why, don't we? He is not quite good enough for the Championship. We have four decent strikers at the club, and if a fifth is needed for the bench because of injuries, he should come from the Academy set up. or the counter and far more feasible argument, our unfit for purpose midfield was not and will not ever be up to the job of supplying chances to 2 strikers and consequently because the midfield and the defence is so poor we have yet again having to revert to playing 1 up front, which Pitman will never be. Once more the truth is as with Trundle, Pitman was doomed the minute he signed for us because of the managers need and belief they could turn a natural goal scorer into a team player, the last 5 years has not only seen the 2 mentioned strikers ruined but also a good attempt to do the same to Little Nicky, it must be sole destroying being a striker at BCFC over the past 5 years, Sam Baldock you have been warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I think I did - scoring 13 in just 21 starts clearly shows that 20 is easily within his reach. You say not many get 20 - you're right - but how many get 13 when starting less than half the games? I've said many times before he's the best instinctive finisher I've seen at AG since Bob Taylor. He hasn't had the benefit of many tap ins from the meagre chance producing City team he's played in, many of his goals have been memorable efforts. He's not sought after at the moment because his career has obviously stalled at AG through lack of starts over the past 18 months. I'm still surprised that if Pitman is as good as you suggest that no Championship club has come in for him. He has been fit for that whole 18 months as far as I know and despite what some are saying I don't believe he is on 'massive' wages at City and certainly isn't one of our top earners. He's something of a forgotten man but high scorers at any level very quickly rebuild their reputation, and get noticed, and if he starts scoring regularly for Bournemouth (almost certain) bigger clubs will very soon show interest again. You've no doubt seen the great goals he's scored for City - why do you think he couldn't score 20+ in a chance creating team if he played regularly and his confidence was up? Well, we'll wait and see but returning back to exactly where he was in his career 2 years ago isn't really progress is it? I don't necessarily disagree that he could score 20 goals at this level, but I'm not sure he'll get the opportunity of starting 40+ games at this level due to his attitude and overall game. This is why I believe that has been no interest from clubs other than the one he started at as a schoolboy. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Well he's had his say. Didnt get a fair chance in his opinion and more than likely won't be coming back. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20426692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Say's he got on well with McInnes but it didn't work out. We know why, don't we? He is not quite good enough for the Championship. We have four decent strikers at the club Four decent strikers?? We've got Davies, who looks very decent, plus an expensive nippy little striker who is actually less proven at this level than Pitman. Then we've got two hard working 'target men' who rarely score. Taylor and Stead are not strikers, not in the traditional sense of the word anyway, let alone decent ones - that would imply they strike the ball into the net regularly, which they clearly don't. They don't strike the fear of God into opposing goalkeepers either, but they do run around alot and attempt to out muscle defenders so let's give them credit for that while accepting they will never fullfill the primary function of strikers. They attempt to make up for their deficiencies with effort ( which Stead, for one, cannot maintain in the long term) because as goalscoring strikers they lack the natural ability to be a success at this level. Neither of them are anywhere near Pitman's league when it comes to the art of goalscoring, nothing about them sets them apart from the average muscular trier, though both have the advantage over Pitman of having that natural physique to battle with defenders to soften them up for the likes of Baldock to appear later in the game to take advantage. Pitman of course has an unfortunate ungainly running style, and lacks their robustness and Taylor's stamina, but is an instinctive finisher who knows exactly where the net is and you can be certain he will always test the keeper. As for your assertion that Pitman is not good enough for the Championship, there are many City fans on this thread, and other similar threads, who completely agree with his evaluation that he was never given a fair chance at Ashton Gate, and will also concur with Howe's comment that Pitman did very well here when given a run in the side. He returns to Bournemouth having proven he can score well in the Championship when given the chance and no doubt their fans can't believe their luck to get him back on the cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 http://www.bournemouth.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=300516 60K that can't be right surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pitman can finish that's all there is to his game He has a poor work ethic no pace can't head does not track back and doesn't work for the team That's why he hasn't featured Baldock is twice the player he is For once I have to agree. I've never seen a less athletic character on a football pitch masquerading as a footballer. Apart from scoring the occasional goal he contributed almost nothing to a game and virtually every time he started a match he was almost invisible. People are always impressed by substitutes coming on and scoring, but actually they are fresh and they are facing tiring defences, so in a sense it is more likely that a substitute will score. I don't recall Brett Pitman ever delivering a decent performance over 90 minutes, and I'm not at all surprised that no one in the Championship would touch him with a bargepole. But then we were told this when we signed him. He was never particularly liked by Bournemouth fans first time around even though he was scoring shed loads of goals for them, which says everything to me. He was a poor signing in my view, and I certainly wouldn't expect more than £100k for him in return. How much did we pay for him? Probably about ten times too much. When you think that players like Charlie Austin and Simon Cox were available at around the same time in the extended local area, it shows how poor our scouting was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Bit of a negative assesment of our front line there Noggers? Horses for courses, clubs in the bag and all that. Just to pick up on the point of Baldock not being proven at this level, his record is something like 1in3 as opposed to Pitmans 1in4. In 32 apps he has scored 10 goals. Pitman 20 goals in 81 apps. I would certainly expect Baldock to achieve at least 10 more goals in another 50 apps. You certainly sound like a fan of Pitman, i myself do like a natural goal scorer, but as with the weaknesses of the triers as you label them, once a natural goalscorer fails to score regularly he's pretty much obsolete is he not? I guess what i mean to say is, Pitman can only effect a game with a goal, he brings nothing else if that fails. Sure, Jon Stead wont bang in 20 a season but he can effect the game without hitting the back of the net. Personaly i like the guy as a player and its a shame it didnt work out but i just feel he is a little bit of a luxury that we can't afford right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Gutted it hasn't worked out here this season and last. I'm a massive BP fan but this is probably the best move for all parties. All the best Brett. Never felt you were given a long enough run under Millen and D Mc. You were either played out of position or used as a super sub( given 10 min to try and save us. Always remember the goal at QPR, class. These two posts sum it up for me. The lad should go out on loan for his own sake as it's pretty obvious that his City career is over, which is a great shame. He was never given a good run in the team bar that patch where he scored a lot of goals 2 years ago and it looked like him and Stead would make a good partnership. Then of course Nicky returned and we went to Brett up front, leaving him isolated out wide or reduced to cameos. I really hope he does well and wouldn't be at all surprised to see him regularly scoring once given a run of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Bit of a negative assesment of our front line there Noggers? Horses for courses, clubs in the bag and all that. Just to pick up on the point of Baldock not being proven at this level, his record is something like 1in3 as opposed to Pitmans 1in4. In 32 apps he has scored 10 goals. Pitman 20 goals in 81 apps. I would certainly expect Baldock to achieve at least 10 more goals in another 50 apps. You certainly sound like a fan of Pitman, i myself do like a natural goal scorer, but as with the weaknesses of the triers as you label them, once a natural goalscorer fails to score regularly he's pretty much obsolete is he not? I guess what i mean to say is, Pitman can only effect a game with a goal, he brings nothing else if that fails. Sure, Jon Stead wont bang in 20 a season but he can effect the game without hitting the back of the net. Personaly i like the guy as a player and its a shame it didnt work out but i just feel he is a little bit of a luxury that we can't afford right now. I am a fan of Pitman Gaz but no doubt my views can appear exaggerated when continually responding to criticism of the player on threads like this. We have had a squad packed with honest, but let's face it, tedious triers ( though sometimes maybe not so honest as some of them have appeared to stop trying periodically) for several seasons. The likes of Pearson, Carey, Elliot, Skuse, Taylor and Stead need to be interspersed with skilful, exciting, and unpredictable players to make matches at AG worth attending imo. Pitman, who has scored some superb goals, is one of those players capable of igniting the crowd, as is Albert, but elsewhere in the squad they have been extremely few and far between. For all his efforts I don't hear the City crowd chanting in support of Ryan Taylor, whereas the oft heard ( when he played that is) Super Brett chant shows he excited the fans and they wanted to see alot more of him, even if the manager didn't. As fans we want goalscoring heroes and to witness skill, vision and goals that we can only dream of to get us jumping out of our seats, not an over abundance of honest toilers. Surely the excitement and skill factors, and the prospect of great goals are what got us hooked on watching professional football in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Taking another flair player out of the squad pretty much sums up how British football has gone recently. Why is it we have this italian style of football in our game now, the fascination of having 11 marathon runners and any player who doesn't run for 90 minutes is deemed lazy no matter if all he can do is score goals. What a bland game we have now. Surely you need 3 or 4 flair players in your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everreddy Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I am a fan of Pitman Gaz but no doubt my views can appear exaggerated when continually responding to criticism of the player on threads like this. We have had a squad packed with honest, but let's face it, tedious triers ( though sometimes maybe not so honest as some of them have appeared to stop trying periodically) for several seasons. The likes of Pearson, Carey, Elliot, Skuse, Taylor and Stead need to be interspersed with skilful, exciting, and unpredictable players to make matches at AG worth attending imo. Pitman, who has scored some superb goals, is one of those players capable of igniting the crowd, as is Albert, but elsewhere in the squad they have been extremely few and far between. For all his efforts I don't hear the City crowd chanting in support of Ryan Taylor, whereas the oft heard ( when he played that is) Super Brett chant shows he excited the fans and they wanted to see alot more of him, even if the manager didn't. As fans we want goalscoring heroes and to witness skill, vision and goals that we can only dream of to get us jumping out of our seats, not an over abundance of honest toilers. Surely the excitement and skill factors, and the prospect of great goals are what got us hooked on watching professional football in the first place? Sums it up well. The functional, unexciting and largely unsuccessful football served up by City of recent years has played a major part in keeping fans away from the Gate, as much as the poor run of results and relegation struggles, IMO. All teams need players who can do the unexpected, weave past defenders and score goals from nothing, or from impossible angles.Bob Taylor, Jackie, Scotty come to mind... I'm sure Brett would have snapped at the chance that Stead missed, with the backpass, on Saturday. Sorry he's gone: we'll regret not showing more faith in him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I am a fan of Pitman Gaz but no doubt my views can appear exaggerated when continually responding to criticism of the player on threads like this. We have had a squad packed with honest, but let's face it, tedious triers ( though sometimes maybe not so honest as some of them have appeared to stop trying periodically) for several seasons. The likes of Pearson, Carey, Elliot, Skuse, Taylor and Stead need to be interspersed with skilful, exciting, and unpredictable players to make matches at AG worth attending imo. Pitman, who has scored some superb goals, is one of those players capable of igniting the crowd, as is Albert, but elsewhere in the squad they have been extremely few and far between. For all his efforts I don't hear the City crowd chanting in support of Ryan Taylor, whereas the oft heard ( when he played that is) Super Brett chant shows he excited the fans and they wanted to see alot more of him, even if the manager didn't. As fans we want goalscoring heroes and to witness skill, vision and goals that we can only dream of to get us jumping out of our seats, not an over abundance of honest toilers. Surely the excitement and skill factors, and the prospect of great goals are what got us hooked on watching professional football in the first place? You say exciting players Noggers, but from what I have witnessed Davies can offer that and more than what Pitman can. Maybe it was the arrival of Davies, and not Baldock that signaled the end for Brett? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pitman has played for 8 seasons in the Football league, he has scored 20+ goals in a season once. Interestingly playing alongside a target man( Steve Fletcher) in that season. That was in League 2 for Bournemouth, those are the facts,so It seems very surprising that some think he's a 20 goal a season Championship striker. Decent lower league striker yes,but not enough pace and guile to get 20 in the championship, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Unless we miraciously acquired the best midfield in the Championship Pitman was always going to be a luxury player (ala Taarbat) at BCFC. 13 goals in his first season isn't bad until you realise that 4 were penalties (yes they still have to be put away), whereas in Maynard's 20+ goal season he only got 2 penalties. BP has had numerous starting spots but failed to deliver and like all our other strikers I have seen him miss chances that an 80yo grandmother would put away. Perhaps at a club with a class midfield he may succeed but BCFC are not that club and probably never will be.....when was the last time we had a class midfield?. A large chunk of cash off the wage bill that will hopefully enable us to sign a CB or CM. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Am I right in saying that all of Pitman's goals were first time finishes in 2010/11? Either way, I'm sad to see Brett go, but a natural goalscorer in a team that doesn't create will always go behind people like Davies who have that little extra flair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pitman has played for 8 seasons in the Football league, he has scored 20+ goals in a season once. Interestingly playing alongside a target man( Steve Fletcher) in that season. That was in League 2 for Bournemouth, those are the facts,so It seems very surprising that some think he's a 20 goal a season Championship striker. Decent lower league striker yes,but not enough pace and guile to get 20 in the championship, imo. Well I still believe that averaging pretty much a goal every 4 games, with the totally uselessly unproductive midfield he had to supply him is actually quite an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 http://www.bournemou...le.asp?a=300516 60K that can't be right surely? Who knows? However this bit in the article "Pitman made the move for an undisclosed fee believed to be in the region of £550,000 and £800,000" Makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Who knows? However this bit in the article "Pitman made the move for an undisclosed fee believed to be in the region of £550,000 and £800,000" Makes no sense at all. I think that's how much we signed him for from Bournemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I think that's how much we signed him for from Bournemouth. But in the region of £550K and £800K means nothing, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Basically whoever wrote the story doesn't know how much the fee was so is just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Am I right in saying that all of Pitman's goals were first time finishes in 2010/11? Either way, I'm sad to see Brett go, but a natural goalscorer in a team that doesn't create will always go behind people like Davies who have that little extra flair. Davies' goals/game ratio isn't bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Loan, with the idea of permanent move in the January window. Sorry, but he is a good player and a natural goal-scorer: yet ANOTHER example of BCFC wasting the talent of a good player. As he says himself - he didn't even get a proper chance. Goodbye Brett, and thanks for your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 As he says himself - he didn't even get a proper chance. Goodbye Brett, and thanks for your efforts. He's unlikely to say anything to the contrary. 80 appearances, 40 odd starts and thousands of hours on the training ground provides us with sufficient evidence that he did have a proper chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Loan, with the idea of permanent move in the January window. Sorry, but he is a good player and a natural goal-scorer: yet ANOTHER example of BCFC wasting the talent of a good player. As he says himself - he didn't even get a proper chance. Goodbye Brett, and thanks for your efforts. Brett is a very good player, his only downfall is we have since signed better strikers....which is good...isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collier Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Brett is a very good player, his only downfall is we have since signed better strikers....which is good...isn't it? Yup better strikers who spend nearly as much time on the bench as Pitman did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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