BCFC Jordan Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Brett is a very good player, his only downfall is we have since signed better strikers....which is good...isn't it? The highest goal return Baldock and Davies have produced in one season throughout their whole careers is 12. Brett managed 13 goals in a season in which he made only 22 starts, whilst playing for a struggling team and it being his 1st season in the Championship. He's also scored almost 30 league goals in a single season and is younger than Davies. They may turn out to be better strikers, which obviously I hope will happen but it's not even close to being a certainty that they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcnick Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I'd say Brett is the most natural and prolific of the five strikers so I really wish we'd just signed Davies, strengthened the defence and midfield with the £1m spent on Baldock and given BP a run of games. Despite some early good form with contributions form Woolford a line-up of Taylor, stead and our midfield will not score enough goals - I'd have seen a Pitman / Taylor or Pitman / Davies combination with the money from Baldock spent on a creative midfielder able to supply assists. Brett's record of 20 goals in 31 starts shows he is prolific and definitely a 20 goal a season player. He's a bit in the Kevin Phillips mould and he needs a manager who accepts that in exchange for 20 goals a season you need to play him regularly and accept he will be anonymous is some games. If you drop him after he goes missing in one or two games you'll more than likely miss out on a hat-trick in the next. Aside from when he just came to the Club and needed to adjust to the Championship he never had those long sequences of goalless games that Maynard had. Also some of the best goal-scorers often give the impression they are not busting a gut but that's because they are floating around and have a natural instinct for taking up goal-scoring positions. I thought he linked play pretty decently as well. Anyway, he'll show his scoring ability at Bournemouth now. The only criticism I'd have of him is that after being here for several seasons he still calls us "Bristol" - he did that about ten times in his interview with Bournemouth Player. Can't the media team at City make all players aware that we are a different entity to the rugby club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Brett's record of 20 goals in 31 starts shows he is prolific and definitely a 20 goal a season player. His record for us is actually 19 goals in 71 appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Unless we miraciously acquired the best midfield in the Championship Pitman was always going to be a luxury player (ala Taarbat) at BCFC. 13 goals in his first season isn't bad until you realise that 4 were penalties (yes they still have to be put away), whereas in Maynard's 20+ goal season he only got 2 penalties. BP has had numerous starting spots but failed to deliver and like all our other strikers I have seen him miss chances that an 80yo grandmother would put away. Perhaps at a club with a class midfield he may succeed but BCFC are not that club and probably never will be.....when was the last time we had a class midfield?. A large chunk of cash off the wage bill that will hopefully enable us to sign a CB or CM. BCAGFC Maynard started every game that season (or near enough) whereas Brett started less than half of the 46 games in his. That is also worth baring in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 The highest goal return Baldock and Davies have produced in one season throughout their whole careers is 12. Brett managed 13 goals in a season in which he made only 22 starts, whilst playing for a struggling team and it being his 1st season in the Championship. He's also scored almost 30 league goals in a single season and is younger than Davies. They may turn out to be better strikers, which obviously I hope will happen but it's not even close to being a certainty that they will. Gosh! Why is it then that 'Davies and Baldock' look so much better, fitter, faster and more skilful than Brett then. Oh well what do i and Del know about football? Anyway just wondering why if he's soooo good only Bournemouth have gone for him? Me thinks, perhaps he's overrated by some fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pitman has played for 8 seasons in the Football league, he has scored 20+ goals in a season once. Interestingly playing alongside a target man( Steve Fletcher) in that season. That was in League 2 for Bournemouth, those are the facts,so It seems very surprising that some think he's a 20 goal a season Championship striker. Decent lower league striker yes,but not enough pace and guile to get 20 in the championship, imo. 8 seasons? Pitman's only 24 now so you're including 3 seasons when he was a youth of only 17/18/19 years of age? It's alot to ask of a teenager to score 20 goals at any level, or a striker of any age to reach that figure when he is playing in less than half the games. He was certainly scoring highly when he left Bournemouth for AG ,( he'd just scored an early season hat trick after B'Mouth got promoted, following 27 the season before) and no doubt if he hadn't been rotting away at City he would have at least 2 more 20 goal seasons to his name. It's hardly fair to judge him negatively on not scoring 20 in any of those seasons, and it gives a false overall impression of his capabilities to include them. The only fact here is Pitman has always scored well when picked regularly, at whatever level he has played in, since he was 20 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 The functional, unexciting and largely unsuccessful football served up by City of recent years has played a major part in keeping fans away from the Gate, as much as the poor run of results and relegation struggles, IMO. Indeed, I believe this was officially confirmed when the club asked non renewing City fans why they were no longer buying a season ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 You say exciting players Noggers, but from what I have witnessed Davies can offer that and more than what Pitman can. Maybe it was the arrival of Davies, and not Baldock that signaled the end for Brett? Just a thought. Could be T10, but at 6 ft 1" Davies also offers competition to Stead and Taylor for the target man role, with the added bonus that he appears to have goals in him. I think most likely Davies was brought in to replace Stead who is almost certainly in his last season at the Gate. I still see Baldock as replacing Pitman, very similar players in many ways, with goalscoring being their main raison d'etre, but Baldock evidently being seen by Del as quicker and a harder worker. I think Pitman beats Baldock on natural goalscoring ability, but we can only hope for City's sake that Baldock proves to be the more successful of the two in the future. Personally I'd like to have seen Davies and Pitman given the opportunity of a long run together because potentially that partnership looks full of goals to me. As things stand I'd go for Davies and Baldock because if Baldock doesn't nail down a place soon I fear we could be talking about him in the same terms as Pitman in the not too distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Pitman when he had a run in the team scored goals. Just never got a whole season up front. We seem to be doing to baldock what we've done with pitman no run in team and sub appearances only. Pitman could take free kicks and corners when in team which didn't help his scoring rate if he's miles outside the box, question should be why is our striker taking corners shouldn't he be in the box converting chances. Baldock in last 11 games we've played he has scored 1 penalty. Is this because service is rubbish or isn't as good as we think or just manager can't fit him in team. If the latter then why have we signed him when pitman could of sat on bench instead. This club signs good forwards and then make them look awful due to our style of play and lack of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Best move for all concerned really, it's a shame as the bloke clearly has ability but does not fit into the style of football played by most clubs in this country, where being a tryer is prized above actually being any good at football. Take our team Elliot who is about as talented a footballer as a particularly large brick is loved despite being completely deficient in 90% of all areas of football, he can't pass, his shooting is generally dismal and his heading is beyond a joke, I have never in all my years seen a player capable of consistently missing the target with his head from 6 yards or less. Yet fans and and managers alike like him because he puts in a shift, despite the fact that the vast majority of his effort is utterly pointless running around aimlessly. The best players only expend energy when it has a purpose, take Gerard for example (laughably called England's best by some) he runs around at 100 miles an hour constantly mostly for no purpose, it looks impressive but he is what 30/31 now and his knees and legs are shot to shit, he has had countless injuries while not actually playing a huge number of games, Xavi, who is older played far more games and still turned up to the euros and was up there with the best players, if you watch him, when it is not necessary he does sod all, he only runs around and tracks back when he needs to or it presents an advantage to his team, this would get him categorised as lazy by many fans in this country. Pitman to a much lesser extent did the same, he did put effort and close down a track back, but only when it was actually useful, this allows him to actually be in a decent position when it comes to attacking, Stead on the other hand runs around like a mad man, closing down everything, this leaves him woefully out of position a huge amount of the time, which is why he has never and will never score loads of goals. Rooney is probably the ultimate expression of this, he has the ability to be up there with the best, but unless he leaves Man U he will only be very, very good and will not break into that exceptional bracket, because he is in a team in a country that wants him to cover every blade of grass, which means he is often unable to do what he does best, put him in the Real Madrid team instead of benzema or the Dortmund team instead of lewandowski and he would be incredible because he would be able to do what he's best at. Until the philosophy of British football changes fundamentally then players with ability will always play lesser roles to those who are nowhere near as good but work hard, and players like Pitman and Baldock will not reach their potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 essentially pitman was unfortunate to be in a struggling team for most of his spell here, which lead every manager to switch to a 5 man midfield, and pitman certainly isnt a lone striker as he lacks the workrate, pace and strength. why he didn't up his workrate and hit the gym is anyone's guess. he also spent a lot of time playing on the left under millen. glad to be moving on a high earner, and although i think he was unlucky, there's no excuse for lacklustre tracking back or laziness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Could be T10, but at 6 ft 1" Davies also offers competition to Stead and Taylor for the target man role, with the added bonus that he appears to have goals in him. I think most likely Davies was brought in to replace Stead who is almost certainly in his last season at the Gate. I still see Baldock as replacing Pitman, very similar players in many ways, with goalscoring being their main raison d'etre, but Baldock evidently being seen by Del as quicker and a harder worker. I think Pitman beats Baldock on natural goalscoring ability, but we can only hope for City's sake that Baldock proves to be the more successful of the two in the future. Personally I'd like to have seen Davies and Pitman given the opportunity of a long run together because potentially that partnership looks full of goals to me. As things stand I'd go for Davies and Baldock because if Baldock doesn't nail down a place soon I fear we could be talking about him in the same terms as Pitman in the not too distant future. Agree. I am concerned that Baldock could go the same way. For players such as Baldock and Brett, they need service of plenty. Both Millen and Del could be to blame for not sorting out that side of the midfield. Strikers like that will never thrive in a team like ours at present. I know you are a big fan of Brett's and defend him when you can, and are quite right in saying Brett is the most natural finisher out of all the strikers. I can only assume its his all round game that is lacking? I rate him and no doubt he will go on to be successful, but out of all the strikers at our disposal I have to admit he is least suited to our current situation. Ultimately meaning 5th choice so I guess he has to go. Hope we don't end up regretting it, but then that's football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Brett will ultimately fail at this level. I predict even if he goes to another championship club, he will go the same way as he did with us (bench warmer). He will then no doubt end up with a L1 club and do rather well there. (his level). Good player, but not nearly as good as some suggest. We seem to have a long list of past players that some on here rave about, rarely do they better themselves. Most end up in obscurity! Which begs the question, why do so many of our fans get a crush on such average players.....and believe them to be better than they really are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talk Of The Town Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Brett will ultimately fail at this level. I predict even if he goes to another championship club, he will go the same way as he did with us (bench warmer). He will then no doubt end up with a L1 club and do rather well there. (his level). Good player, but not nearly as good as some suggest. We seem to have a long list of past players that some on here rave about, rarely do they better themselves. Most end up in obscurity! Which begs the question, why do so many of our fans get a crush on such average players.....and believe them to be better than they really are? +1. I dont get the Pitman love fest. Hes from the David Seal/Tony Thorpe mould imo. Slow,poor touch with an average football brain. He will get you the odd goal at this level but he goes missing from games and doesnt put a shift in. Hence his move to a lower league club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammyOne Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Brett will ultimately fail at this level. I predict even if he goes to another championship club, he will go the same way as he did with us (bench warmer). He will then no doubt end up with a L1 club and do rather well there. (his level). Good player, but not nearly as good as some suggest. We seem to have a long list of past players that some on here rave about, rarely do they better themselves. Most end up in obscurity! Which begs the question, why do so many of our fans get a crush on such average players.....and believe them to be better than they really are? Good post. I think for a lot of people, they just like to cant 'Super super-Brett'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 8 seasons? Pitman's only 24 now so you're including 3 seasons when he was a youth of only 17/18/19 years of age? Your correct,it's 7 seasons,he started his 5th season at Bournemouth but moved to City very early during that season. He actually scored nearly as many in his 4th season at B/mouth as he had scored in total in the previous 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 +1. I dont get the Pitman love fest. Hes from the David Seal/Tony Thorpe mould imo. Slow,poor touch with an average football brain. He will get you the odd goal at this level but he goes missing from games and doesnt put a shift in. Hence his move to a lower league club. Poor touch? Average football brain? Great touch actually, look at his goal repertoire, so many of his goals are about his first touch giving him half a yard along with his movement/anticipation in the box - for which a good football brain is pretty useful. His problem is that he doesn't appear to work hard enough, lacks pace and as you say, go's missing. He will score goals for fun in league one. It's a good move for all. Another one surplus to requirements off of the wage bill and he gets to go home and play regular football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 The truth is that suddenly after all of the goals we scored earlier in the season, guess what they have surprise, surprise dried up and why?, because we have reverted to crap of the past 4 seasons, where we just leave 1 incredibly isolated striker up front and lump aimless balls either over his head or into the stands and if he is lucky and then he has a ball to hold it up until our lumbering midfield arrive and again if luck is on our side lay it off to our midfield and that's it attack over. Whoever that striker is will cut a very lonely figure up front and lose confidence, DMC will change them around of course, I think very soon we will actually see how good our strikers really are. So just be honest boys for once, over the past 4/5 years BCFC and the past 2 managers assisted by the 3rd have totally ****** 2 strikers and were well on the way to ******* a 3rd and maybe 4th before he left, so please explain why that won't happen again?, we are already playing 1 up front which along with a shitty midfield did for the others, what is so different this season?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 The truth is that suddenly after all of the goals we scored earlier in the season, guess what they have surprise, surprise dried up and why?, because we have reverted to crap of the past 4 seasons, where we just leave 1 incredibly isolated striker up front and lump aimless balls either over his head or into the stands and if he is lucky and then he has a ball to hold it up until our lumbering midfield arrive and again if luck is on our side lay it off to our midfield and that's it attack over. Whoever that striker is will cut a very lonely figure up front and lose confidence, DMC will change them around of course, I think very soon we will actually see how good our strikers really are. So just be honest boys for once, over the past 4/5 years BCFC and the past 2 managers assisted by the 3rd have totally ****** 2 strikers and were well on the way to ******* a 3rd and maybe 4th before he left, so please explain why that won't happen again?, we are already playing 1 up front which along with a shitty midfield did for the others, what is so different this season?. We have had 2 up front for almost all of our games this season and we have been slaughtered for it Blackpool we had one upfront got a result and almost all 3 points but for a coat of paint But you'd have to go to the game to see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 We have had 2 up front for almost all of our games this season and we have been slaughtered for it Blackpool we had one upfront got a result and almost all 3 points but for a coat of paint But you'd have to go to the game to see it This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 We have had 2 up front for almost all of our games this season and we have been slaughtered for it Blackpool we had one upfront got a result and almost all 3 points but for a coat of paint But you'd have to go to the game to see it Oh ok, so how many actual clear cut chances did we create during that game? apart from of course a dodgy penalty that gave us the lead before the coat of paint intervened?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Oh ok, so how many actual clear cut chances did we create during that game? apart from of course a dodgy penalty that gave us the lead before the coat of paint intervened?. Stead missed a sitter, Kilkenny hit the bar with a screamer, pretty sure we had a couple of decent chances from corners (for once) too. Not great, but to get the solidity we had we had to sacrifice a little in our attacking play. We need to find balance for now, and 4-4-2 ain't gonna give us that unless we stop playing with Wingers. I'd be content with dropping Albert for a few games and using him from the bench. 3 in the middle, Danns playing as our attacking midfielder and one of Davies, Stead and Baldock playing off of Taylor. Go a bit more direct in our passing (not long ball, but feeding Taylor earlier) and getting him to bring the midfield and his partner into play from higher up the pitch. That formation requires a lot of discipline at full back though, you'd have to play a very flat back four and tell the full backs to not overlap and commit too much down the flanks. Baldock is the only player we have who runs into channels and likes to stretch the play, with Kilkenny, Danns and Pearson under direct instructions to look for that through ball in behind a bit earlier Baldock will have something to feed off. We'd all love for us to play some slick, possession football, and I still think that's the way forward long term, we need to keep the thing longer to stop our defence being under such long periods of pressure, but with our midfield that's just not possible. Elliot couldn't pass wind and Adomah is far too direct whilst Pearson and Kilkenny take one too many touches at times too. Until we can sort that area out I think we need to go a touch more direct and try keep thing up the other end a bit longer. Tactically is a tough one, we've got too much variety in midfield, one injury means we need a new approach as we don't have players who can deputise the same roles as the first choice players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'd say Brett is the most natural and prolific of the five strikers I would say that Brett Pitman is the least natural footballer I've ever seen. Can anyone else name a footballer more ungainly and less athletic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I would say that Brett Pitman is the least natural footballer I've ever seen. Can anyone else name a footballer more ungainly and less athletic? Matt Le Tissier Bas Savage (sorry you said footballer) Jon Parkin Ade Akinfenwa I could go on , but you get the picture !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm just reading the Danny Wilson thread and it's saying we have signed him on loan as he is good but hasn't been given a chance in the first team as others are infront of him. That's just the same situation that we have here. Pitman though had the chance to really grab his place under at least 2 managers and for whatever reason they looked elsewhere. As harsh as it is that's football. After all when he arrived he must of pushed someone else out and now on loan he will too. It's frusreating when you see talent not being used, but it must be more than frustrating for Del and his staff too. Sometimes another player is the answer, not better or worse just different. Right player wrong team maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 http://www.bournemouth.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=300516 60K that can't be right surely? As has been mentioned elsewhere, transfers are often paid in instalments over the period of the contract, as are signing on fees. Judging by the value of his transfer here, we could still owe Bournemouth anything between £50k-£150k which will now be written off. Add to that the wages we will save over the next 6 months (if rumours are to be believed he's on at least ten large per week), then we could also be saving anything up to £250k by him not being here. So, £60k now plus savings of anything up to £400k or let him go for nothing in the summer having spent this £400k instead. I think we're doing alright out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Today in the B'mth Echo. Article by Neil Perrett (edited by me for the BCFC forum) neil.perrett@bournemouthecho.co.uk Pitman Primed For Championship Return Brett goes on to say the usual regarding not playing much for us........ I thought I did well when I got the opportunities at Bristol City but, this season, I hadn't had any so it was time to move on Then Brett as reported by Neil............... Eddie coming back was a massive factor. I don't think there is an secret about our relationship. We got on and there is no denying we work well together so ,hopefully, we can do that again. " The main reason for coming back was to play football. I love the club and I like living here but, most importantly, the people here are ambitious and I really think we can go to the Championship this season." ------------- So for me I think we as a club failed to build around Brett(?) He did not help when things did not go his way and there might have been a cake & eat it hope from him? He likes living down here (Dorset) and he probably(?) won't do as well as Charlie Austin will in the long run (Jesus Charlie even played for Poole Town FC..... just wanted to play.... totally committed to any club he plays for) I liked Brett and really had a hope that he would do good for us.... We might have failed him but I think in the end Brett's heart was not in it for us and I would guess that's what our Managers saw. I think Brett wants the comfort of being back home(?) possibly with less pressure and people that understand him better(?) Good luck to Brett & AFC B'mth......... but "UP THE CITY!" If Brett would like to set me right on a few things, if I have the general feel wrong, then he can always PM me here. Again good luck Brett........ you are a good player! ----------- P.S details reported: Terms agreed on a three year deal , Nominal fee believed to be around £60,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Stead missed a sitter, Kilkenny hit the bar with a screamer, pretty sure we had a couple of decent chances from corners (for once) too. Not great, but to get the solidity we had we had to sacrifice a little in our attacking play. We need to find balance for now, and 4-4-2 ain't gonna give us that unless we stop playing with Wingers. I'd be content with dropping Albert for a few games and using him from the bench. 3 in the middle, Danns playing as our attacking midfielder and one of Davies, Stead and Baldock playing off of Taylor. Go a bit more direct in our passing (not long ball, but feeding Taylor earlier) and getting him to bring the midfield and his partner into play from higher up the pitch. That formation requires a lot of discipline at full back though, you'd have to play a very flat back four and tell the full backs to not overlap and commit too much down the flanks. Baldock is the only player we have who runs into channels and likes to stretch the play, with Kilkenny, Danns and Pearson under direct instructions to look for that through ball in behind a bit earlier Baldock will have something to feed off. We'd all love for us to play some slick, possession football, and I still think that's the way forward long term, we need to keep the thing longer to stop our defence being under such long periods of pressure, but with our midfield that's just not possible. Elliot couldn't pass wind and Adomah is far too direct whilst Pearson and Kilkenny take one too many touches at times too. Until we can sort that area out I think we need to go a touch more direct and try keep thing up the other end a bit longer. Tactically is a tough one, we've got too much variety in midfield, one injury means we need a new approach as we don't have players who can deputise the same roles as the first choice players. My point is and will always be that a bright start to the season was allowed to deteriorate into chaos because of some very bad transfer decisions made in the summer and the failure to strengthen the 2 areas that actually did need strengthening and then waiting far too long to actually react to the impending chaos and had those 2 areas been properly addressed we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation about playing 1 up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Blimey, it's been a while since we had a player who so clearly polarised opinion among the fans. Apart from Trundle, but then - he WAS shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Oh...and this (thanks BCFC jordan) He's a natural finisher, nothing else to his game, put the ball near him in the box and let him do the rest. Good luck, Brett, please don't score against us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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