Jan Transfer Window

[Monkeh]

Must have been a different Millen who went on and on that summer about not being able to sign the likes of Dawson and some one else who went from PNE to West Brom (Jones?) amongst various others.. So exactly the same as McInnes down to the same excuses and then going out and signing strikers and er, wingers

one winger and 2 strikers the same two strikers who have scored 15 goals between them (half of all out goals scored this season),

The same two strikers who have scored the same number of goals as our top scorer last season (maynard)in less then half of the games,

The same two strikers who are better then any striker we've had in the last 10 years,

those two strikers?

[Monkeh]

As before - the Board is committed to reducing annual loss from £14.4M last season to £10M this - if this is to come from wages alone then a saving of well over 20% is required. Several top-earners have moved on but at least two fairly high earners have come in. By my very rough estimation, the turnover of permanent signings so far might have saved as much as £3M (if we were able to include for the Stewart pay-off in last year's accounts) leaving another £1M to find. If this is correct, we cannot afford to match last season's expenditure on loans. It is in my opinion wishful thinking to assume that the expiry of a number of current loans and a short-term contract will enable each of the players to be replaced, because this assumes the loan expenditure to date (extrapolated over the rest of the season) fits within the available budget - I think this unlikely as if anything loans so far have exceeded last season.

I acknowledge that the Board has stated it will support DM in the transfer market but quite frankly I am not sure what else it could say in public. Even if Championship survival is priority 1 (as I am sure it must be unless SL has had enough) then meeting (or getting pretty close to) FFL target must be a pretty close second priority. Given this constraint any substantial squad improvement next month will, although not impossible, be quite an achievement.

I'd wager that the players who came in during the summer are on no where near the same amount as our previous high earners,

I suspect if we took a snapshot of the wages today it would be at least 2 million less then the amount published at the end of may,

Its work in progress but it must be coming down as the board would support or fund loan signings let alone back him in the summer or in the jan transfer window,

[Murraysrightplum]

Millen knew where City were weak and tried to address it but came out with exactly the same platitudes as McInnes has when they both failed to strengthen the squad.

In defense of McInnes he did manage to balance the squad which Millen had failed to do but despite that we are now in the same position as we were when Millen was sacked. Its been pointed out already on here that McInnes's record is actually worse than Millen's was.

You say we 'aren't a million miles away'. I'm not so sure. We have a decent strike force, weak midfield and poor defense and no depth within the squad. We might just avoid the drop if McInnes gets his act together and signs some quality during the window. I just hope he doesn't make the same errors of judgement then as he did during the summer.

Err we were bottom with Millen. Del Boy saved our ass. I think he will come good, judging by his planning for the future (signing mostly young players who are starting/on the bench) and sorting out the academy

[Timbo7]

I'd wager that the players who came in during the summer are on no where near the same amount as our previous high earners,

I suspect if we took a snapshot of the wages today it would be at least 2 million less then the amount published at the end of may,

Its work in progress but it must be coming down as the board would support or fund loan signings let alone back him in the summer or in the jan transfer window,

I suggest you re-read my last post as we seem to be in agreement - you have said "at least £2M" and I said "might have saved as much as £3M". We are therefore agreed that good progress has been made but there is still some way to go. Further progress means a net reduction in the monthly wage bill in February compared with December - i.e. more out than in AND/OR avoiding repeat or equivalent of the Wood/Davies/McManus/Amougou/Ephraim loans in the Spring.

[Kibs]

people keep banging on about needing to sign quality.

On paper, most of what McInnes has signed and some of what Millen signed appears to be quality.

They nearly all have what you might call "a proven track record" whether it be playing in Europe, the SPL, proven in the Championship, International / Ex International.....

I myself have been pretty pleased and certainly positive (beforehand) with nearly all the new signings but if we are being brutally honest, only a few have lived up to the hype which is why we tend to see so many of his "quality" signings on the bench.

With confirmation of our shocking finances released again, can we afford to go on signing "quality", costing a fortune and then failing?

Many people have said it in the past but surely we should be looking at young(ish) hungry players from the lower divisions wanting to prove themselves?

Arguably our best player in recent seasons, Albert Adomah we signed from Barnet.

If we are looking at the lower leagues then we certainly have trouble identifying the ones who "might" be good enough.

[Garland-sweden]

Fontaine's dip in form was unforeseen but you are forgetting just how influential Cisse was in providing that extra protection to the back 4 last season. He hasn't been replaced. Elliot is not up to the task and Skuse has been injured. Kilkenny is too slow on the ball and hardly tackles anyone so currently there's no-one capable of playing that defensive midfield role. That's a huge factor in City not being able to manage a clean sheet all season.

We hoped that Morris would take over that role but we've barely seen him so he's another signing that seems like a waste of money.

Think you are right there. Cisse did a massive jobb to help the defence last season. A good def mf is a must if the defence should be ok. Maybe we can look abroad in the jan window. Dont think that players in other europe leauges earn so mutch money as in England.

[Robbored]

Yup,with the addition of all these goals, it has been amazing. We have 2 points less than this time last year.

Exactly right. When Millen was in similar dire straights he was getting incredible stick with seemingly many fans calling for his head. They argued that a change of manager would make all the difference. They should have more careful about what they wished for.

Now with McInnes in charge City are in a worse position despite him having balanced the squad and having the luxury of off loading the dead wood and bringing in his own players.

I argued back then that City should have stayed with Millen and that a new manager wouldn't necessarily guarantee success. With the same argument I would say that sacking McInnes now would not be the right call. City have to stick with him at least until the New Year. That would give him the rest of December and the xmas fixtures to turn things around.

[Murraysrightplum]

Exactly right. When Millen was in similar dire straights he was getting incredible stick with seemingly many fans calling for his head. They argued that a change of manager would make all the difference. They should have more careful about what they wished for.

Now with McInnes in charge City are in a worse position despite him having balanced the squad and having the luxury of off loading the dead wood and bringing in his own players.

I argued back then that City should have stayed with Millen and that a new manager wouldn't necessarily guarantee success. With the same argument I would say that sacking McInnes now would not be the right call. City have to stick with him at least until the New Year. That would give him the rest of December and the xmas fixtures to turn things around.

Absolute rubbish. We were bottom with Millen and would have been relegated. At that point we didn't know who the new manager would be. We changed manager and stayed up. You can't use McInnes's failings to back up your argument about keeping Millen. We are not worse off.

[Robbored]

Absolute rubbish. We were bottom with Millen and would have been relegated. At that point we didn't know who the new manager would be. We changed manager and stayed up. You can't use McInnes's failings to back up your argument about keeping Millen. We are not worse off.

Thats not my argument at all. I'm say that changing the manager doesn't always mean that things will improve and McInness's appointment proves that. If you want further proof just take a look north of the river.

I also said that McInness shouldn't be sacked yet. Give him more games to repair the hole he's got us into.

[Murraysrightplum]

Thats not my argument at all. I'm say that changing the manager doesn't always mean that things will improve and McInness's appointment proves that. If you want further proof just take a look north of the river.

I also said that McInness shouldn't be sacked yet. Give him more games to repair the hole he's got us into.

I agree that changing the manager does not guarantee success. My point is that we are better off without Millen! How you can say we have gone backwards since then is a joke. The only way down from bottom of the championship is league 1 and we ain't there yet. McInnes didn't create the hole (a combination of GJ, Coppell, Millen and a weak board did) - it's just deeper than we thought.

[eric04]

I don't know how you reckon McInnes has improved the squad.

The problem is that he and Millen before him have not strengthened adequately with enough quality ( who btw cost money in fees and wages). They both made signings but City are still struggling. That's a reflection of just how poorly they assess a player.

To me McInnes has made two decent signings - Davies and Baldock. The rest are average at best.

Cunningham surely.

[Murraysrightplum]

Have posts been deleted here? It seems so.

[Robbored]

I agree that changing the manager does not guarantee success. My point is that we are better off without Millen! How you can say we have gone backwards since then is a joke. The only way down from bottom of the championship is league 1 and we ain't there yet. McInnes didn't create the hole (a combination of GJ, Coppell, Millen and a weak board did) - it's just deeper than we thought.

You seem to have a love in with McInnes.

Look at the situation now to when he took over. Are we not still deep in the shite? He record is worse than Millen's despite ( as I posted earlier ) having the luxury of off loading dead wood and bringing in new players of his choice last summer. Against Wolves he played only 5 of his own signings and 6 inherited - that says everything about the faith he has in players he signed.

Last summer he virtually had a clean slate and the chance to build a decent squad and he failed miserably. No matter how you dress it up,the hole we are in now is down to McInnes

[Murraysrightplum]

You seem to have a love in with McInnes.

Look at the situation now to when he took over. Are we not still deep in the shite? He record is worse than Millen's despite ( as I posted earlier ) having the luxury of off loading dead wood and bringing in new players of his choice last summer. Against Wolves he played only 5 of his own signings and 6 inherited - that says everything about the faith he has in players he signed.

Last summer he virtually had a clean slate and the chance to build a decent squad and he failed miserably. No matter how you dress it up,the hole we are in now is down to McInnes

I don't have a love in with Del at all, I simply maintain that we are better off now than under Millen. I don't like the way that every thread you comment on turns into how you were right about Millen and everyone else was wrong. The facts are we were bottom with 6 points under Millen, we aren't anymore.

In terms of McInnes, the squad in terms of quality is better in my opinion so the coaching has to be seriously questioned.

[bearded_red]

We aren't a million miles away but unfortanitly where we are weak is pretty key postions, you can't tar mcinnies with the same brush as millen like robbo is trying to do, mcinnes knows where we are week and has tried to address it, (monk, gerrard Keogh are proof of this) where as Millen didn;t have a clue

That summer weren't we linked with such players as Billy Jones, Gareth McAuley, Craig Dawson, Andrew Taylor and Bradley Johnson?

If interest in these players was true (I believe it was confirmed in the cases of Taylor and Jones) Millen can of course be criticised for chasing unrealistic targets, but unless you have more inside knowledge than the rest of us it would be unfair to say he didn't even try and address it.

[Robbored]

I don't have a love in with Del at all, I simply maintain that we are better off now than under Millen. I don't like the way that every thread you comment on turns into how you were right about Millen and everyone else was wrong. The facts are we were bottom with 6 points under Millen, we aren't anymore.

In terms of McInnes, the squad in terms of quality is better in my opinion so the coaching has to be seriously questioned.

You obviously consider facts not to be important when sticking up for McInnes. Then you say its not the players he's signed that are poor, its the coaching that needs to be questioned but virtually all the backroom and coaching staff have been recruited by McInnes. So if its not his fault, whose is it?

[Murraysrightplum]

You obviously consider facts not to be important when sticking up for McInnes. Then you say its not the players he's signed that are poor, its the coaching that needs to be questioned but virtually all the backroom and coaching staff have been recruited by McInnes. So if its not his fault, whose is it?

I do question him, that's why I'm questioning the coaching! i.e. I'm proving that I haven't got a 'love-in' with him.

You on another thread have proved my point about turning every thread into a "I was right about keeping Millen" thread. Thanks for that.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

You obviously consider facts not to be important when sticking up for McInnes. Then you say its not the players he's signed that are poor, its the coaching that needs to be questioned but virtually all the backroom and coaching staff have been recruited by McInnes. So if its not his fault, whose is it?

The coaching has been poor for nigh on 10 years, with a slight break of 2 years in the middle.

Given time I expect to see results under the new regime, I could never see that under the the previous set up.

[Nogbad the Bad]

The coaching has been poor for nigh on 10 years, with a slight break of 2 years in the middle.

Given time I expect to see results under the new regime, I could never see that under the the previous set up.

That can't be right - Keith Millen was coaching for a huge of chunk that time and he'd passed lots of coaching exams.

Really nice bloke too.

[glynriley]

That can't be right - Keith Millen was coaching for a huge of chunk that time and he'd passed lots of coaching exams.

Really nice bloke too.

And he know's a good player when he sees one - apparently !

[Murraysrightplum]

The coaching has been poor for nigh on 10 years, with a slight break of 2 years in the middle.

Given time I expect to see results under the new regime, I could never see that under the the previous set up.

Exactly

[Robbored]

I do question him, that's why I'm questioning the coaching!

So its not the fact that McInnes has signed too many average players ( many of whom he won't play) its the coaching that's the problem.

I've seen some extreme excuses on here over the years but this one has to be the most misguided..

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So its not the fact that McInnes has signed too many average players ( many of whom he won't play) its the coaching that's the problem.

I've seen some extreme excuses on here over the years but this one has to be the most misguided..

Like this one? Millen knows a good player when he sees one.

Pitman, Killkenny and Woolford?.

[Robbored]

Like this one? Millen knows a good player when he sees one.

Pitman, Killkenny and Woolford?.

Pitman never really got chance under McInnes but his overall goals per minutes played was excellent. We saw how good Woolford could be at the start of this season in the games against Cardiff and Palace. Since then he's been injured/ill. I'll admit that Kilkenny was a poor signing but he still gets games under McInnes.

Millen is a very well qualified and excellent coach. Maybe not managerial material but he'll never be out of work in football.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Pitman never really got chance under McInnes but his overall goals per minutes played was excellent. We saw how good Woolford could be at the start of this season in the games against Cardiff and Palace. Since then he's been injured/ill. I'll admit that Kilkenny was a poor signing but he still gets games under McInnes.

Millen is a very well qualified and excellent coach. Maybe not managerial material but he'll never be out of work in football.

You love to re-write history don't you Pitman didn't get too much of chance under Millen either and if a return of 2 good games in 2/3 seasons is considered a good return, let's bring back little Lee.

[Monkeh]

You love to re-write history don't you Pitman didn't get too much of chance under Millen either and if a return of 2 good games in 2/3 seasons is considered a good return, let's bring back little Lee.

ahh robbo was right about our best manager in recent years Johnson (after 4 years of sucsess) and now he's right about millen (one of the worst in recent years)

and of course right about McInnes who dispite our poor perfomance and form 80% of fans still back to the hilt,

For the record pitman is not a good striker he was given a chance and never took it thats why he's loaned out to Bournmourh, Taylor has been given a chance he's taken it and stays in the side.....

[Robbored]

ahh robbo was right about our best manager in recent years Johnson (after 4 years of sucsess) and now he's right about millen (one of the worst in recent years)

and of course right about McInnes who dispite our poor perfomance and form 80% of fans still back to the hilt,

Its strange that so many fans seem to back McInnes whose record is worse than Millen's and yet yet didn't back Millen.

I'm not for or against McInnes. I prefer to take an objective view and when you look at the hard facts he's not any more effective than Millen was. The bottom line is that City are still struggling.

[glynriley]

Its strange that so many fans seem to back McInnes whose record is worse than Millen's and yet yet didn't back Millen.

I'm not for or against McInnes. I prefer to take an objective view and when you look at the hard facts he's not any more effective than Millen was. The bottom line is that City are still struggling.

[Monkeh]

yea thats the funniest joke I've heard in a while Glyn

[Gazred]

Its strange that so many fans seem to back McInnes whose record is worse than Millen's and yet yet didn't back Millen.

It's not strange, its called not being short sited. If we adopted your attitude we would be changing managers every year. Someone needs to be given a chance to rebuild the club and the playing squad. Millen, as likeable and as qualified as he was never filled me with confidence as a leader. McInnes on the other hand feels like a manager, there are no guarentees in football but im happy to put my support behind DM, i really belive he will turn things around for the better in time.

Nothing wrong with a couple of below par seasons during the rebuilding process if they come back stronger. DM's instruction this season must of been to secure Championship football for another season and no more. I think thats achievable and im certain that would of been the seasons target no matter who is in charge.