'gap Between Club And Fans As Wide As It's Ever Been'

[CotswoldRed]

I've heard that players head home early afternoon after training. Is this true? If the club are paying them they should be paying them for a full day's work, not for half a day's childish nonsense on their x box.

Get them down to local schools promoting Bcfc. Don't let the gits travel home until 5pm like the rest of us.

The players are taking the pi55.

[Abraham Romanovich]

To my mind the club lost its way with the fiasco over the new Stadium.

It represented a positive, a feel good factor something the whole of Bristol could be proud of.

It promised a higher profile, bigger crowds and at last a slumbering giant awakening, as we aimed for the Premier League.

Sadly this positivity has all but evaporated over the years as people now even question why a new stadium is even required.

The club from my perspective have always been on the back foot, time after time it appears that a small coalition of various factions ,Greens Nimbys and those with political axes to grind have run rings round us.

The club needs to rally the supporters, take a far higher profile and go on the offensive with the PR.

At the moment we get delay after delay with the club appearing to do nothing between judicial reviews etc(probably unfair But we are told nothing)

Sort the stadium issues give us all some HOPE that we are moving in the right direction and not this current inertia

[chinapig]

I said previously on this thread that the same concerns have come up over and over so there must be some substance in them. That is still true but I've been thinking about this.

On their own some points look a bit minor when you see them in black and white, but people are right, you have to experience them to get the full picture. Being held in a queue on the phone for tickets only to be cut off is frustrating if it happens once, but again and again? Wading through toilets which are awash with water, cold with no hot water or soap. If the club want to think of me as a paying customer I want to be treated like one.

We have put up with poor facilities for years, this isn't a recent thing.But maybe the 'paying customers' are fed up when we don't see progress on or off the field. We don't expect miracles, we are Bristol City fans after all but when you constantly see other teams improving their facilities or team, sometimes both we need a glimmer of hope now and again.

The manager or Chairman haven't got the personalities of our previous holders of the posts. Fine if they were doing a great job people would overlook that. I think it's hard to be a Manager without a certain amount of 'people skills' though, afterall he has to communicate with his players doesn't he? I'm not against Del, I'm really not, but like many others feel that the future of our club might be in someone elses hands. Have I got faith in the board to chose wisely, what real choice have we got but to back their judgement? In almost every other thing I can think of you can have a choice, from the shops you buy from to the schools you send your children, but supporting a football club is unique. But it doesn't feel exclusive in a good way at the moment.

So is the gap wider than it has ever been, yes, because the club has made it feel that way, sadly.

Well said. A Blackburn fan said on 5 Live last week that football fans are only customers in the sense that heroin addicts are. Clubs, including BCFC, know this whiich is why they treat fans as you describe, knowing you are not going to take your business to a competitor. I no longer attend due to health reasons but I am so sick of the culture of football clubs I would have stopped going anyway, after 45 years.

[Aizoon]

Well said. A Blackburn fan said on 5 Live last week that football fans are only customers in the sense that heroin addicts are. Clubs, including BCFC, know this whiich is why they treat fans as you describe, knowing you are not going to take your business to a competitor. I no longer attend due to health reasons but I am so sick of the culture of football clubs I would have stopped going anyway, after 45 years.

As I have, with rare exceptions, after 50 years. Sorry if this annoys people, but I still consider myself a City fan and I still hope for better things off the field. On the field? Well, I am a City fan, after all

[bucksred]

Lets hope Dave, that BCFC Plc does not extract the michael out of us ST holders next season, when the almost inevitable relegation happens and we as a club have to conform to new rules. This would be too much for a large and growing number of fans who are fedup with the farce that is BCFC in the last three seasons. Someone seriously needs to get a grip at BCFC, off the pitch and deffo on the "team", or you will haemorrage further support very quickly

[Mr Mosquito]

Lets hope Dave, that BCFC Plc does not extract the michael out of us ST holders next season, when the almost inevitable relegation happens and we as a club have to conform to new rules. This would be too much for a large and growing number of fans who are fedup with the farce that is BCFC in the last three seasons. Someone seriously needs to get a grip at BCFC, off the pitch and deffo on the "team", or you will haemorrage further support very quickly

Our record in the major Cup competitions during Steve Lansdown's tenure here as Chairman - and now club owner - is truely dreadful. Steve Lansdown is the common factor in all this and not any particular one of the managers he's appointed. I don't understand the bloke because if I owned a football club I'd be bloody fuming with how easily we always get knocked out of the major Cup competetitions. The leadership at this club have really lost the plot.

[redsquirrel]

Hopefully Dave will read this soon.

can i ask please,

when you go in tomorrow,could you possibly pop in and see our chairman and ask him how much longer Mr McInnes has as manager, also if they have had any discussions about his performance as manager.

this is my only gripe now,ive given up on the players doing better,its obvious they cannot or will not do it under his leadership.

[pikeysrobins]

Hopefully Dave will read this soon.

can i ask please,

when you go in tomorrow,could you possibly pop in and see our chairman and ask him how much longer Mr McInnes has as manager, also if they have had any discussions about his performance as manager.

this is my only gripe now,ive given up on the players doing better,its obvious they cannot or will not do it under his leadership.

Agreed! I think the fans deserve to know! As things stand fans see the club staring down the barrel of relegation. What hope is there for us? New signings? New manager? What is going on? GIVE US HOPE!!!!!!!!

[Chivers_ctid]

this has been a great read and i would like to add my view: 1st regarding the web site as a user that uses the website via my mobile i have found that the newer updated website just doesnt work its slow laggs and is almost unusable on my mobile.. as for the the football we all can see the problems there and i think that all goes back to the sacking of gary johnson and bad choices back then.... ive seen a lot of fans on here saying let's drop back to league 1 and rebuild if we drop back to league 1 thats 6mil lost straight away and would we have the funds to build a squad good enough to get back in to the championship i dont think so! we need to make some good signing during jan and YES! we need that fans fav down the gate that scott murrray bell thorpe that colin cramb that we have been lacking over the last few years! another thing that i feel needs addressing is the lack of respect from the players to the fans i read yesterday how skuse was the only player who went over to clap the fans who made that long trip.. this was also the case when i went to birmingham only 3/4 players came over win lose or draw the players need to remember who pay there wages! del and who ever is captin need to ensure win lose or draw the fans are treated as no1 not there flash cars and tarts!

[Taylor10]

Hi Dave,

I think just about all my feelings have been expressed in some shape or form throughout this thread.

For myself, and my old man, other commitments mean commiting to a season ticket just isn't possible. We are both members. Sometimes, if we both want to go together we can't commit until match day itself. Match day prices are too high, and given the current state of affairs it's an awful lot to pay to watch some very average football.

As I have stated though, most of my views have been expressed at some point in this thread, so I won't make your job any harder.

Finally, thanks for all of your efforts. I appreciate your honesty and enthusiasm in trying to solve some of the problems our club has. It really is nice to know that someone, somehow, is trying to improve things.

Thanks again Dave, good luck, and keep up the good work!

[ollywhyte]

Similarly to RedRobin13's post, it's hard to criticise our league standing due to being a younger supporter, with one of my earliest memories of seeing us bottom of League 1, however as mentioned numerous times already there is a different feeling about our club than in years gone by.

That feeling, for me, changed following our play off defeat to Hull. That should of been the making of us, the club should of kicked on from there, but ever since it has felt like acceptance of mediocrity. Managerial appointments have obviously been a disappointment following Johnson's tenure, and for me this is the biggest factor.

Gary Johnson was the link between the club and the fans. He interacted with fans, providing us with 'bounce around the ground' etc, a real bond and connection, we felt valued, the club was a solid unit. Despite saying this the decision to sack Gary was the right one, but the replacement needed to be in the same categoryof management style. We all know what happened next Coppell then Millen etc... So I won't bore you with that, but my next point is what I feel needs to be addressed...

The board took the opportunity to appoint a young and promising manager in Del, a popular decision, welcomed by myself, I felt it was an inspired choice, moving away from obvious candidates and looking to be different. A bold statement, but this is as far as it goes, that feeling of positivity hasnt been continued, and that ties in to my view of settling for mediocrity. Im sure to get the job, del would have impressed, visions would have been set out, targets surely laid, where are they? Why can we not hear about them? Get the fans on board the vision, make us feel part of it, it could help us see del in a better light, you only have to look as far as Liverpool, Brendan Rodgers guided Liverpool to there worst start in god knows how many years, yet Liverpool fans are optimistic and excited for the future, all because clear aims of taking Liverpool back to the top added to the honesty of how hard it will be have been accepted. Whereas our club has held onto the tag 'premier league dream' lets get some real targets set down, and even if they are negative, release them, it's about time we gathered a clear visualisation into in Steve landsdowns words OUR club

Im not the best at getting my point across, but in a nutshell we need someone at this club to take authority and offer direct and honest insights, so we can begin to understand our clubs standing once again and build from there.

It would also be nice for the club to directly involve the fans in decision making, things like a badge change, with the robin welcomed by many.

[RedTide]

I think it's about having something to look forward to - a future.

The future means youth - off the pitch, do we do enough? I bought both my daughters shirts online; they were delivered by mistake to an address 20 miles from where I live, but because whoever the postman offered them to signed the name the packet was obviously addressed to on the package, the city shop people just told me 'tough luck'. as far as they were concerned, they had the money. End of. No shirts for my daughters - two fans lost (and big loss of money and goodwill from me).

The future means youth - on the pitch, too. Bristol fans want Bristol players, or at least from the South West. The young players get as far as the bench sometimes but no further. Our record is abysmal in this respect. I'd rather see Reid, Edwards, J Wilson, Bryan and Lewis Carey in the team and us losing 4-0 than losing 2-0 with journeymen who've kissed the badges of ten other clubs before us. Del is supposed to be the saviour on this but as far as I can see the only player he rates is Bryan - and he signed Cunningham in his position, the only really good signing he's made. So we buy in a replacement for the one position we have a capable youth in?

The future means players who are City players: a team full of players on loan is not a base for the future. I'd rather see players who want to be losing 4-0 than a team that changes every week of other clubs' cast-offs losing 2-0.

The future means having something to look forward to: the stadium has been like a Xmas present promised and not delivered for a long time now. I don't blame the club for this, but the effect is like the rest of this post - reasons not to believe in the future... add to that the play-off disappointment... add to that Del promising we wouldn't be in this position again - only for us to be in a worse one... add to that a decade of miserable underachievement in cup competitions...

I think fans feel we're futureless. Not like, say, Swindon where di Canio gives reasons to hope, or Crewe where young players count, or Cardiff with big investment, or West Ham or MK Dons with new or improved stadiums to look forward to.

The future may be orange, but it doesn't seem red.

[redsquirrel]

cant you claim off the post office?

[CotswoldRed]

I think it's about having something to look forward to - a future.

The future means youth - off the pitch, do we do enough? I bought both my daughters shirts online; they were delivered by mistake to an address 20 miles from where I live, but because whoever the postman offered them to signed the name the packet was obviously addressed to on the package, the city shop people just told me 'tough luck'. as far as they were concerned, they had the money. End of. No shirts for my daughters - two fans lost (and big loss of money and goodwill from me).

The future means youth - on the pitch, too. Bristol fans want Bristol players, or at least from the South West. The young players get as far as the bench sometimes but no further. Our record is abysmal in this respect. I'd rather see Reid, Edwards, J Wilson, Bryan and Lewis Carey in the team and us losing 4-0 than losing 2-0 with journeymen who've kissed the badges of ten other clubs before us. Del is supposed to be the saviour on this but as far as I can see the only player he rates is Bryan - and he signed Cunningham in his position, the only really good signing he's made. So we buy in a replacement for the one position we have a capable youth in?

The future means players who are City players: a team full of players on loan is not a base for the future. I'd rather see players who want to be losing 4-0 than a team that changes every week of other clubs' cast-offs losing 2-0.

The future means having something to look forward to: the stadium has been like a Xmas present promised and not delivered for a long time now. I don't blame the club for this, but the effect is like the rest of this post - reasons not to believe in the future... add to that the play-off disappointment... add to that Del promising we wouldn't be in this position again - only for us to be in a worse one... add to that a decade of miserable underachievement in cup competitions...

I think fans feel we're futureless. Not like, say, Swindon where di Canio gives reasons to hope, or Crewe where young players count, or Cardiff with big investment, or West Ham or MK Dons with new or improved stadiums to look forward to.

The future may be orange, but it doesn't seem red.

Legally it is the retailers responsibility until the items reach YOU. Their responsibility does not end when they hand it over to a courier or royal mail.

Remind them of this then pursue it.

You card issuer should back you on this. I imagine Money Saving Expert will have some good advice.

[Aizoon]

I bought both my daughters shirts online; they were delivered by mistake to an address 20 miles from where I live, but because whoever the postman offered them to signed the name the packet was obviously addressed to on the package, the city shop people just told me 'tough luck'. as far as they were concerned, they had the money. End of. No shirts for my daughters - two fans lost (and big loss of money and goodwill from me).

---

That is shocking but not, alas, surprising.

CotswoldRed is dead right about the legal position. Its up to the vendor to sort it out with the courier. Mind you, a caring club would see you right, anyway.

There's too much of the "we've had your money, now **** off" about the whole setup these days.

[RedTide]

Thanks to those who have replied to this: What the club said to me, after I had proved to them from the Royal Mail tracking service that the shirts were delivered 20 miles from the address I live at, to someone with a different name, was that I had to take it up with Royal Mail. Royal Mail in turn said they delivered it to the address they were told, and they could do no more. Club said they didn't care.

I promised myself I'd never buy any club merchandise again, but of course I have, 'cos I love my team. That's why the 'gap is wider than ever,' and the fact that Dave L has not responded to this also really disappoints me.

Still, I'll wander in the club shop before today's game, and cheer on the lads as ever after.

[TRL]

Thanks to those who have replied to this: What the club said to me, after I had proved to them from the Royal Mail tracking service that the shirts were delivered 20 miles from the address I live at, to someone with a different name, was that I had to take it up with Royal Mail. Royal Mail in turn said they delivered it to the address they were told, and they could do no more. Club said they didn't care.

I promised myself I'd never buy any club merchandise again, but of course I have, 'cos I love my team. That's why the 'gap is wider than ever,' and the fact that Dave L has not responded to this also really disappoints me.

Still, I'll wander in the club shop before today's game, and cheer on the lads as ever after.

The club have the contract with royal mail, not you. You are entitled to get another shirt, the club will then have to chase royal mail for compensation. You have the proof you need, threaten the club with action if I were you, they may get off their arses and chase up royal mail and get you a shirt.

Piss poor customer service from both companies

[CotswoldRed]

Thanks to those who have replied to this: What the club said to me, after I had proved to them from the Royal Mail tracking service that the shirts were delivered 20 miles from the address I live at, to someone with a different name, was that I had to take it up with Royal Mail. Royal Mail in turn said they delivered it to the address they were told, and they could do no more. Club said they didn't care.

I promised myself I'd never buy any club merchandise again, but of course I have, 'cos I love my team. That's why the 'gap is wider than ever,' and the fact that Dave L has not responded to this also really disappoints me.

Still, I'll wander in the club shop before today's game, and cheer on the lads as ever after.

BCFC are LEGALLY OBLIGED to ensure it reaches you. Any case to be taken up with Royal Mail is their case, not yours.

If they won't listen, make then aware that you are shouting it from the rooftops and making the whole forum know.

If you can be bothered, root out the definition of your consumer rights where this applies.

This is truly shocking. Crap service and illegal to boot.

Edit: try this page a few paragraphs down

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/delivery-rights

[bucksred]

Dave,

summat for thought. Once we suffer our more increasingly likely relegation back to League 1, lets hope we dont as long suffering season ticket holders & POTD'ers alike dont find any significant increase in ticket prices to offset FFP in L1 now... Just to increase funds for more poor players to join us....

[Dave L]

Thanks to those who have replied to this: What the club said to me, after I had proved to them from the Royal Mail tracking service that the shirts were delivered 20 miles from the address I live at, to someone with a different name, was that I had to take it up with Royal Mail. Royal Mail in turn said they delivered it to the address they were told, and they could do no more. Club said they didn't care.

I promised myself I'd never buy any club merchandise again, but of course I have, 'cos I love my team. That's why the 'gap is wider than ever,' and the fact that Dave L has not responded to this also really disappoints me.

Still, I'll wander in the club shop before today's game, and cheer on the lads as ever after.

Smiler. Sorry you haven't had the response you were looking for. As I said on the other thread, I'm not going to turn this into an open Q and A for the same reasons that 'Ask Steve L' was discontinued. However, I would agree that this needs looking into. Please drop me an email at david.lloyd@bcfc.co.uk with your personal details, and I promise I'll investigate properly for you.

[CotswoldRed]

Smiler. Sorry you haven't had the response you were looking for. As I said on the other thread, I'm not going to turn this into an open Q and A for the same reasons that 'Ask Steve L' was discontinued. However, I would agree that this needs looking into. Please drop me an email at david.lloyd@bcfc.co.uk with your personal details, and I promise I'll investigate properly for you.

Well done Dave.

It's a shame those responsible are so belligerent when they don't know what they are talking about.

It pushes well meaning fans into accepting poor service.