'gap Between Club And Fans As Wide As It's Ever Been'

[Andy Horsman]

Words can lose their meaning on a forum, i should have elaborated more, but i was full of rage so i didn't.

I don't understand what some fans really hope for, all this talk of passion and commitment seems gibberish, . these a pro footballers, signed up to us, do you really think they want to play like an amateur to unimpress everyone?

'hey Dave, remember that shit game you had? 'yeah man it was awsome, i played so bad i was a pure embarrassment and we lost terribly and it was totally all my fault', Yeah man you sucked, at this rate you'll be playing for Barca!

No identity and piss the fans off? how would you suggest a players gains an identity with the club and fans? I simply don't believe fight and passion are in question, its rather trying to calm them down and not get book - any idiot can get sent off, there your fight, down to 10 men. but well done, you showed that you were committed to breaking his legs, Icon.

The only fix is to win games, you could be the nicest bloke trying your best, but if you don't win or play well you wont be remembered, now everyone wants to be remembered positively, so i just don't get the lack of commitment and passion gripe, unless there are other concerns unbeknown to us.

Its up to you how you support the club and what you even condier support, per head fans have little impact on the game, unless you are at the the game, then you really have a duty of support

High sheriff, i like that.

A 'duty of support'!! What a crock of shite!! The is EXACTLY the sheep-like psyche that means that club's can keep shafting their loyal support base by thinking that, or more generously in my part, taking for granted, that irrespective of the piss poor fare on offer on and off the pitch they'll keep turning up out of a 'duty of support'!!! If you genuinely believe that their is no lack of commitment or passion on display by our players at AG, I would suggest that you are in the minority and are easily pleased!! Perhaps if you are 'so full of rage' as you put it, you would re-read this thread and consider how frequently the same points are being made and consider that you may not be always right in your indignation.

[Andy Horsman]

Empathy with those prone to over-react at everything? It's a conspiracy, the club did it on purpose in an attempt to con the fans. No such thing as individual error, it MUST be the clubs fault.

I defended the club in the face of a pile of unnecessary and now proven to be baseless attacks. There of course will not be an apology to the club from the faceless few like the club did to the

*deleted*

[TRL]

Can the slagging stop on this thread and be taken to other threads or a new thread. Quite rightly, if this turns into a slagging match between posters, why would Dave want to read through it.

Everyone has an opinion of what is broke and what isn't at the club, can't it be left as that, and the slang fest reinstated elsewhere.

[Aizoon]

Can the slagging stop on this thread and be taken to other threads or a new thread. Quite rightly, if this turns into a slagging match between posters, why would Dave want to read through it.

Everyone has an opinion of what is broke and what isn't at the club, can't it be left as that, and the slang fest reinstated elsewhere.

+1

[mangogerry]

Dear Mr Lloyd,

Firstly, this is probably the best thread I have ever seen on OTIB, the responses to your statement are truly very passionate and very accurate.

May I suggest to start the ball rolling, you immediately sort out the East End, everyone is aware it's where the passion of the club is, where all the vocal encouragement comes from, however its the most discriminated against, so....

1. The away fans should be in the corner

2. Stewards should stop verbally, physcologically and physically assaulting the younger element of the EE, this thuggish behaviour cannot be tolerated any more.

3. Get us back behind the Goal

4. Get the surfer flag back immediately

There you go, something to act on ASAP, and it will not cost anything!

You may not agree with my comments, but remember, we may be in the cheap seats, with rubbish facilities, with a PA that does not work, monitored by bullies.......etc...but, it was the first place all the players came to after the POSH result to say thanks....nuff said

[Red Knowle]

I think city have moved too far away from supporters. BCFC should not all be about just the football and finances. The club should be attempting to be a big family. There has been a drip drip effect on fans with the incentives for fans buying season tickets being seen as a joke, the club shirt has been defaced with a tyre mark because somebody the fans never see thought it was good idea, the open day for the family was moved from a saturday for a smaller event barely publicised and as a man with a family it felt like city couldnt be that arsed with it anymore, the EE has been mucked about for years with a lot fans time and effort blown by the faceless people who just wheeled out Dl to talk for them after the event of changing the EE for advertising. The directors prefer adverts instead of fans passion and colour. The Gow testiomonial talking to those behind this fans had to to work far too hard to get it on as the people fans never see were dragging their feet and the game was eventually played with the club honouring this true legend by being on the whole in Scotland!!

These examples are just a few months worth where it feels the club has lost the sense of what it should be. Years back the Berly fudges of this world would care about the small and not so small things that give club the feeling it was our club.

[Johnny Casio]

There's a wealth of information to be taken from this thread.

For me it feels like we are focused on the b2b side of things above all else. That's all very well, we understand the club has to do all it can to get anywhere near the loses incurred on the footballing side by selling corporate opportunities.

But.

Is there anyone behind the scenes defining some kind of strategy for the most core consumers?

For example...Are there any objectives set to try and increase the average attendance? The club tried groupon and living social but why not do this offer through our own channels?

Why are we always comparing ourselves to other football clubs. Great PR for the club to offer the cheapest season ticket in the league but we should be looking at all forms of entertainment and adding to the experience and learning from there.

The food vouchers. Been talked about enough and I'm sure the message has got through. The second set were just as worthless as the first. Right idea to add value but 50p off something for a season ticket holder will always be compared to the hundreds spent on the season ticket. Not surprising this alienates.

We've been through the list of opportunities at our disposal before...as always, would be more than happy to act on these...

I do fear the the restructuring recently ate heavily into areas within the club that were excelling.

Also, credit where it's due, the programme is a great improvement this season to last in my opinion.

Thanks for inviting feedback Dave.

[phantom]

Dave

Would you be willing to post this topic on the Ziderheads site please?

There are a number of posters "over there", that don't post on OTIB.

I'm not sure if this is the place to raise this issue or not, I was going to email directly, but guess it won't hurt being posted on here.

On the way out of the ground on Saturday, a car was trying to leave the ground area from by the club shop when the walkways were full of people, a steward did try to stop the driver, but they continued to drive into a large crowd, a number of people were 'bumped', and to be honest this is not the first time that I have witnessed this.

In addition to the car park behind the EE, there are people are cars shuffling into the same spaces - it looks like an accident waiting to happen.The volume of people around the club shop area / back of the Williams stand leaving toward the Greyville Smyth park is always high, it seems crazy cars are allowed to drive through crowds of that magnitude.

I wondered why the cars were allowed to leave from these areas, when there are so many people on foot walking around. Most sporting venues not only keep the car parks shut for 10-15 minutes but also have some roads around their stadia clsoed off for a short time whilst crowds dispersed.

[Aizoon]

I think city have moved too far away from supporters. BCFC should not all be about just the football and finances. The club should be attempting to be a big family. There has been a drip drip effect on fans with the incentives for fans buying season tickets being seen as a joke, the club shirt has been defaced with a tyre mark because somebody the fans never see thought it was good idea

I knew that the new kit reminded me of something, but I couledn't put my finger on it. That was until I was in Broadmead before Christmas and saw some really slutty underwear in Ann Summers. Red with a black top - hot and bad in the language of lingerie

[East End Old Boy]

On the way out of the ground on Saturday, a car was trying to leave the ground area from by the club shop when the walkways were full of people, a steward did try to stop the driver, but they continued to drive into a large crowd, a number of people were 'bumped', and to be honest this is not the first time that I have witnessed this.

In addition to the car park behind the EE, there are people are cars shuffling into the same spaces - it looks like an accident waiting to happen.The volume of people around the club shop area / back of the Williams stand leaving toward the Greyville Smyth park is always high, it seems crazy cars are allowed to drive through crowds of that magnitude.

I wondered why the cars were allowed to leave from these areas, when there are so many people on foot walking around. Most sporting venues not only keep the car parks shut for 10-15 minutes but also have some roads around their stadia clsoed off for a short time whilst crowds dispersed.

I witnessed this, or a similar incident, which appears to happen most games and is the most blatant abuse of health and safety.

I would like to know who conducted the risk assessment to allow this?

[Drew Peacock]

Dave

Would you be willing to post this topic on the Ziderheads site please?

There are a number of posters "over there", that don't post on OTIB.

I'm not sure if this is the place to raise this issue or not, I was going to email directly, but guess it won't hurt being posted on here.

On the way out of the ground on Saturday, a car was trying to leave the ground area from by the club shop when the walkways were full of people, a steward did try to stop the driver, but they continued to drive into a large crowd, a number of people were 'bumped', and to be honest this is not the first time that I have witnessed this.

In addition to the car park behind the EE, there are people are cars shuffling into the same spaces - it looks like an accident waiting to happen.The volume of people around the club shop area / back of the Williams stand leaving toward the Greyville Smyth park is always high, it seems crazy cars are allowed to drive through crowds of that magnitude.

I wondered why the cars were allowed to leave from these areas, when there are so many people on foot walking around. Most sporting venues not only keep the car parks shut for 10-15 minutes but also have some roads around their stadia clsoed off for a short time whilst crowds dispersed.

Thoroughly agree with this, have said so for a long time. I think it is a police issue though. So nothing will be done about it.

[Drew Peacock]

But this ill-feeling is not the makings of an over imaginative support base but a catalogue of errors from the club in its approach to the fans.

It is because we aren't winning and also the way we are losing.

Put in a winning run, get out of relegation and so many of the moans will fall away.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Empathy with those prone to over-react at everything? It's a conspiracy, the club did it on purpose in an attempt to con the fans. No such thing as individual error, it MUST be the clubs fault.

I defended the club in the face of a pile of unnecessary and now proven to be baseless attacks. There of course will not be an apology to the club from the faceless few like the club did to the supporter.

JT it might bore YOU to death, but whether you like it or not, this minor incident is just symptomatic of the wider issues with the club and in particular ticketing/pricing. The person who implemented the £4 fee must have got that information from somewhere or did he/she just make it up?, so where did it come from?, the guy questioned the fee but was obviously assured that it was correct. if we ignore the playing side, which DL obviously has no influence over that whatsoever, ticketing/pricing and the hidden charges and fees are one of 3 biggest complaints over the years people find it confusing and occasionally find the ticket staff less than helpful, some of our ticket pricing leaves a lot to be desired and with such high prices especially for kids, you have to wonder sometimes if more was done in it's pricing it might even improve gates and even encourage parents to bring their kids.

The other 2 main complaints are stewarding and catering, all 3 of these complaints crop up quite often and none have ever been properly addressed apart from as I have said before a corporate/businessman party line about what a wonderful job is being done and what a great business arrangement we have with these parties, clearly many of the fans don't agree.

The stewarding and catering issues are very easy to sort, unannounced and incognito and with a couple of sensible fans with gripes over the 2 issues, get one or two of the board members to have a proper match day experience in various parts of the ground over a period of time.

I actually believe DL is a good man and extremely brave to take on a job that I doubt many on here would want or do any better at, he will never win but I suspect even he knows especially after this thread all is not well.

and as for over reaction, we all have things we would like improved and to some they might seem trivial but obviously not to the poster, like peoples polarised opinions regarding for instance of Ryan Taylor and even his half time substitution against Derby and the said conspiracy theories and then we learned he was injured.

OTIB was asked the question by DL and are now airing their views, I have never been one to say about an injustice or an obvious mistake 'oh well that is trivial, i'll ignore it' because that is how it is allowed to become the norm.

Edit:- As a small addendum to this it's the little things like NTTDS plea over match DVD's, I/he/we can understand why they are not available (they are not cost effective) but surely for a guy who has invested more into his club than most (especially recent players) they could find a way of getting him a DVD of each game that he requests?, after all over the past 4 years the players have had 100's which they clearly have never watched and perhaps even at the beginning of the season if he was to give them say 48 DVD's (that's 46 league games and our customary 2 cup games) they could just burn him off 1 extra copy and we know if they want a nominal payment from him to cover costs he is more than happy to oblige.

[REDOXO]

Empathy with those prone to over-react at everything? It's a conspiracy, the club did it on purpose in an attempt to con the fans. No such thing as individual error, it MUST be the clubs fault.

I defended the club in the face of a pile of unnecessary and now proven to be baseless attacks. There of course will not be an apology to the club from the faceless few like the club did to the supporter.

Jordan

This is Nuts! French Red is not prone to over reaction and I always thought he was a good solid overseas poster!

'The club did it deliberately to con the fans'...Oh come on as has been implied its just another issue that the club is having to face, David Lloyd did not start this thread for nothing, he needs to know whats going on, thats the point of the thread!!!!

'It must be the clubs fault' Yes clealy at least one person at the club got it wrong!

'Baseless attack' The club said sorry it was our fault...!

'An appology from the faceless few' For What! Stating a problem on a forum to the point it was seen and dealt with!

Jordan! Get some help son, this stuff is going to start messing with your head more seriously than it is already is. The rest of us are not bogeymen and to be honest the latitude you often get is because you are one of us!

RedOXO

[Simez]

Minor EE related niggle I've always had, whilst we want the atmosphere to be loud, to be on our side and to spur City on wherever possible I want the opposite of the away fans- please stop the likes of Blackpool bringing that bloody drum in! We don't want the away fans spurring their team on, get the minibus load of Blackpool fans shoved up in the corner without their drum and get the East Enders behind the goal!

[Clevedoncity]

Minor EE related niggle I've always had, whilst we want the atmosphere to be loud, to be on our side and to spur City on wherever possible I want the opposite of the away fans- please stop the likes of Blackpool bringing that bloody drum in! We don't want the away fans spurring their team on, get the minibus load of Blackpool fans shoved up in the corner without their drum and get the East Enders behind the goal!

We need to make Ashton Gate a fortress and the starting point is making a atmosphere positive for the home team. Sometimes it must feel like an away game when things aren't going our way and there is a quite crowd. We need to make the experiences of the away team and supporters that Bristol City are a club that don't allow the away fans to support their team vocally. The more frightening we are the better we will be able to support our team.

As for the EE behind the goal, the atmosphere when they where behind the goal for the two games at the end of last season made a substantial difference.

[Jordan Tansley]

Jordan

This is Nuts! French Red is not prone to over reaction and I always thought he was a good solid overseas poster!

'The club did it deliberately to con the fans'...Oh come on as has been implied its just another issue that the club is having to face, David Lloyd did not start this thread for nothing, he needs to know whats going on, thats the point of the thread!!!!

'It must be the clubs fault' Yes clealy at least one person at the club got it wrong!

'Baseless attack' The club said sorry it was our fault...!

'An appology from the faceless few' For What! Stating a problem on a forum to the point it was seen and dealt with!

Jordan! Get some help son, this stuff is going to start messing with your head more seriously than it is already is. The rest of us are not bogeymen and to be honest the latitude you often get is because you are one of us!

RedOXO

Calling a mistake, which was fixed within 24 hours, a disgrace is an attack.

Going on about shoving the money accidentally taken up the asses of the board is an attack.

Saying they won't bother attending any more because one guy made a cock up.

All of that is an over reaction. The thread was not the only way which the club would have noticed, bitching on a public forum is probably less likely to achieve a positive result than an email inquiry to the commercial director or fans liaison officer.

I've made a pretty extensive post on this very thread outlining problems I can see, An honest mistake like that is the least of the clubs worries. It should also be the least of the fans worries.

An apology was made, good. That should be sufficient and the club should be praised for swiftly dealing with the situation despite the fan not following the most productive route to achieve that ends. Instead people still feel it is a disgrace...

We have problems, massive ones. Many are consistent throughout all of English football. A ticket office cock up that was hastily amended is not one. Hanging on to such a minor issue belittles the true problems the fans have...

[screech]

A thread which started off well has quickly descended into a shopping list and the usual point scoring. Marvellous. This was a great thread about how fans have been left with a club that feels alien to them, what is happening now is the pointless point scoring crap is watering down 6 pages of fans input. Ffs do it by pm or meet up and discuss it elsewhere.

[REDOXO]

Calling a mistake, which was fixed within 24 hours, a disgrace is an attack.

Going on about shoving the money accidentally taken up the asses of the board is an attack.

Saying they won't bother attending any more because one guy made a cock up.

All of that is an over reaction. The thread was not the only way which the club would have noticed, bitching on a public forum is probably less likely to achieve a positive result than an email inquiry to the commercial director or fans liaison officer.

I've made a pretty extensive post on this very thread outlining problems I can see, An honest mistake like that is the least of the clubs worries. It should also be the least of the fans worries.

An apology was made, good. That should be sufficient and the club should be praised for swiftly dealing with the situation despite the fan not following the most productive route to achieve that ends. Instead people still feel it is a disgrace...

We have problems, massive ones. Many are consistent throughout all of English football. A ticket office cock up that was hastily amended is not one. Hanging on to such a minor issue belittles the true problems the fans have...

Get a Grip!

[Cowshed]

I feel that away from the football that the new influx of new directors has compounded certain long standing issues. Directors who are not fans, and who in some cases are not from the West Country are not going to share the same culture and experiences of supporters. These directors do not have a lifetimes commitment to BCFC, so while attempting to commercilise/modernise their actions can appear indifferent, or disrespectful to the clubs and fans history.

[Maesknoll Red]

There does seem to be a couple of consistent themes, a couple of which I can't really comment on as I haven't been in the East End for many years, not have any desire to do so. The stewards in and around the Dolman seem to be pretty miserable and unfriendly, but then again, I have never spoken to one and maybe thats their perception of fans like me as well.

I have long held the view that as a share holder, City Society (or is it City 2000 now?) member and season ticket holder, that its pretty poor to be asked to pay to see highlights and interviews relevent to my club. I have never and will never subscribe to City Player. Continuing with the media theme, I have a twitter account I set up when I was off work, recovering from an operation and bored, I don't log on to it now, so any twitter feeds will pass me and many others by. The website (I know its a league thing) is now a shambolic piece of work, that looks like the draft effort of the remdial computer class at school.

I can share the views of others, that familiar and friendly faces, who were the consistent and human face of the clubs interface with fans have now gone. Can I make a comparison to high streets, in my youth there were many small and independent retailers, from green grocers and bakers, to Bedminster Sports, who had a personal touch and remembered customers, often going the extra mile with customer service and even helping out those down on their luck. The high streets are now full of charity shops and chains, so they all look the same. The football club (and maybe not just this one) are in danger of doing the same, how will fans of the future gain their loyalty and life long unshakeable associaton with one club, if there is no individuality, no initiative that isn't stamped out by the health and safety taliban or deemed inappropriate to 'modern' football.

I also doubt that we'd get so many complaints if we were in the top 6, playing with style and panache, but we have endured, many seasons of dross, at the end of Wilson's reign it seemed that the players ruled the roost and they gained a unenviable reputation of being drunkards, culminating in the imprisonment of players and the much quoted incident on the waterfront. If what I heard was true, Tinnion tried to correct this, but was struggling, Johnson seemed to clean up the club, we accepted the bad medicine, but after the playoff defeat, all his work seemed to unravel. I'm not convinced that removing an excellent media team and then having such as Jody Morris (from the posts I've seen on here)and Scott Murray's rants representing the club have adequately replaced them. I was in no doubt it was time for Johnson to move on, but changing the Manager surely has to be to see some improvement and we have seen no improvement on the pitch and a massive decline in the relationship with the fans.

I'm sure if you were to look back over the previous season or so's match reports and Managers comments, there is nothing new or inspiring. The same old excuses and promises wheeled out week after week, if necessary, let the Manager have 24 hours to make his comments, he might then be able to think with a clearer head about the message he wants to get across.

Catering, well I haven't bought any food in the ground for years, so can't comment on the quality or lack of it, but I do feel aggrieved at paying £3.30 for a can of Bass, it hardly needs the skills of a master cellarman, nor does it have a short shelf life. The vouchers, well they will remain attached to the email, no use to me at all. I'd have rather had one voucher for a free pint or pie redeemable at any game.

Were we spoiled in having Steve Lansdown as Chairman? With his highly public profile and hands on approach, I have no experience of other clubs to say how often the Chairman or board members speak, or how recogniseable they are to their fans, so I'm really not sure if our board are faceless grey men in suits or if most boards are like it. But, following Steve (and even Colin, as he wasn't a shrinking violet) is proving to be a tricky job and if fans feel they want to hear from the board and them to become familiar faces rather than mystery men, perhaps they should listen.

I don't envy you this task Dave, as you have many to try and please, I have no interest in seeing the players before after the game going into or out of the stand, but can fully empathise with those that have youngsters that want to. Exactly the same with East End banners and flags. How do you deal with the moans about players flash cars and high wages - without them we wouldn't have players, as that is the standard they now expect from a Championship club, but it should be reiterated to them, the standrds of behaviour and attitude expected in return, as the perception, rightly or wrongly, seems to be that they are not meeting those standards.

Some of the complaints will be universal to all clubs, as football has changed and evolved, some of us who have been watching a long time don't like all the changes, some seem to be devout luddites (but they can use a keyboard) and therein lies your problem, 12,000 fans and nearly as many opinions, although there are some common threads. I guess in years gone by, when football was more the domain of the man who worked in the factory or other manual jobs, women weren't so commonplace in the ground and the Green 'Un was the mainstay of information about the club it was easier to manage.

Looks like you've got a busy week ahead Dave, formulating your responses and trying to improve, what is without doubt a rocky romance between 'The Club' and 'The Fans'. For all our sakes, I wish you luck and hope you can succeed in creating some feeling of unity again.

[REDOXO]

Maybe time to lock the thread - DL and the club has enough to read through with most points being covered time and again.

Gets my vote!

[Tom Fleuriot]

Before it gets locked, for my two pence worth.

I think one stated mission of the club should be to get as many fans into the stadium as possible.

The atmosphere last season vs Coventry and West Ham was phenomenal. While our tickets are cheapest than most, would it be even better to charge 30% less and get 50% more people in the ground? I can see several advantages. The ground becomes more intimidating to away teams. If fans were less pissed off about how much they'd paid, they'd feel less aggrieved when we pay poorly. You'd start creating the groundswell necessary to fill the new stadium when we move in. People would have more money in their pocket to spend on programmes and catering. It would be easier to convince a mate to come along. With near sell-outs each week, more people would join databases or members lists, giving you more access to fans. Most importantly, people would be able to afford going to watch their team play.

If you implemented this now, you'd have to give season ticket holders something; I'd suggest a hundred quid off next season's ticket (which would be about seventy quid less anyway). This would mean that you retain a lot of the people who aren't planning on renewing.

if we're getting sell-outs, you'd also probably want some kind of system whereby if a season ticket holder is not planning on using their seat they can text the club, allowing the club to know tickets are available.

You should sort out your fan database, and ensure city are running off a single database for all operations. It took about four attempts for me to notify you of a change of address that stuck to everything.

There are several other points I agree with (like the comparison with Swansea and Wigan in terms of clear vision for the club, media, and a clear communication outlet), but I thought the above point wasn't made in depth.

[Dave L]

Looks like you've got a busy week ahead Dave, formulating your responses and trying to improve, what is without doubt a rocky romance between 'The Club' and 'The Fans'. For all our sakes, I wish you luck and hope you can succeed in creating some feeling of unity again.

Great post Chris. Thanks for your thoughtful input and to everyone else who has taken the time and trouble to post their thoughts.

This thread has occupied much of my waking (and some sleeping) time over the last few days as I read and re-read all the responses and start to write my reply (it won't be a brief read, I warn you). I really do appreciate the variety of views and the depth of feeling that have been expressed, even those that have had a go at me. I shouldn't be doing this job if I'm not prepared to accept constructive criticism.

If we can achieve one thing, it will be to stop talk of 'The Club' and 'The Fans'. We are all part of the club, and together we must try and arrive at a situation where we cease to make that distinction. 'The Club' is all of us, players, staff and fans alike, and that's what we should be working to try and achieve. Hopefully this will be the first stage in that process.

Lock the thread if you feel it necessary, but I am more than happy for it to be kept open as long as people still feel they have something constructive to add. I'll just ignore the playground stuff.

Just a couple of things in advance of my reply. Kevin Smith and I will be getting the coach up to Blackburn on Saturday and watching the game from the away end. If anyone would like to meet for a chat either at the ground or at an away friendly pub, I'm more than happy to do that. I also plan to watch a game from the East End in the near future.

Happy New Year!

[Guest]

Before more and the thread descends into more slanging, agree with others,maybe time to call a halt now.

[Dollymarie]

Dave, as you started this thread, I guess it has to be up to you if you feel you have enough things to respond to, and you would like it locked?

[Maesknoll Red]

I'm not going to lock it, as maybe some who have been occupied over Xmas still have inputs to make, but please keep posts relevent and on topic, or I'll have a 'clean up'.

Blimey, posted at the same time as Marie.....

[Dave L]

Dave, as you started this thread, I guess it has to be up to you if you feel you have enough things to respond to, and you would like it locked?

Thanks Marie, but it's not my forum and not my call. I agree with Chris though - keep it open and tidy as necessary :-)

[Chivs]

Great post Chris. Thanks for your thoughtful input and to everyone else who has taken the time and trouble to post their thoughts.

This thread has occupied much of my waking (and some sleeping) time over the last few days as I read and re-read all the responses and start to write my reply (it won't be a brief read, I warn you). I really do appreciate the variety of views and the depth of feeling that have been expressed, even those that have had a go at me. I shouldn't be doing this job if I'm not prepared to accept constructive criticism.

If we can achieve one thing, it will be to stop talk of 'The Club' and 'The Fans'. We are all part of the club, and together we must try and arrive at a situation where we cease to make that distinction. 'The Club' is all of us, players, staff and fans alike, and that's what we should be working to try and achieve. Hopefully this will be the first stage in that process.

Lock the thread if you feel it necessary, but I am more than happy for it to be kept open as long as people still feel they have something constructive to add. I'll just ignore the playground stuff.

Just a couple of things in advance of my reply. Kevin Smith and I will be getting the coach up to Blackburn on Saturday and watching the game from the away end. If anyone would like to meet for a chat either at the ground or at an away friendly pub, I'm more than happy to do that. I also plan to watch a game from the East End in the near future.

Happy New Year!

Dave,

Like others, I thank you for your initial post (and subsequent ones). This is especially admirable given the time of year!

It's clear from your final paragraph that "the club" is already starting to listen.

I think that the responses in this thread can be summarised by 3 major issues and a host of individual, "minor" issues. Leaving aside the latter (which hopefully you will respond to individually), I can see some ways of resolving the 3 major issues (communication, EastEnd, players disconnected from fans).

Do you want some suggestions put here? You could justifiably say that I don't have any knowledge of the budget, resources etc available to BCFC so any proposals may be pie-in-the-sky but also they may just hit on something that you overlook.

Anyway, leave it up to you. A host of suggestions may "muddy the waters" when you wanted to know the issues so I'll understand if you dont want this thread to go in a different direction.

[Red Exile]

I'm in the "been away for the holidays" camp...so my thoughts.

First - this can be a fine club. When my brother died a few months ago it was great to read condolences on here from Dave L alongside fellow forum members. Reminds you that there is a big City family that we can all feel part of. It's included all the members of my close family over the years and City matches have often bonded us together when we were geographically far apart.

Second - it doesn't feel like a fine club most of the time at the moment. For all the reasons above there is a gap between the supporters and club officials and players...I certainly feel one. I can't identify with the lifestyle of our players and I feel no real connection to the club directors who seem to live in a different world to me and don't seem motivated to be involved with Bristol City for the same reasons as the fan base. It appears either a job or a personal investment which will one day offer a return. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't relate to it at all. I did relate to the warmth of the lovely Beryl Fudge and the ever helpful Jayne Maggs.

Third - the bizarre thing is that the club does know how to do this stuff well...and in the GJ years did it brilliantly. I well remember Steve doing a Q&A in a pub before the Palace away match 5 years ago. Lots of folk on here were there. It was great stuff. The problem is that so little of what he seemed to be promising has come to pass. Five years on the entertainment on offer is very poor. I'm sorry to say that I'm not attracted to the matches. The cost far outweighs any enjoyment.

I'd suggest that the club takes a long look at what was working on and off the pitch 4 or 5 years ago and asks what needs to happen to get back to those times.

I know that there are City fans with considerable professional experience in PR and media. Would it not be a good idea to ask whether anyone in the fan base with such experience could help Dave L in the task he's undertaken?