'gap Between Club And Fans As Wide As It's Ever Been'

[Tom]

My advise is real simple, take this thread print it out and reply to every point, obviously you can't comment on allegations or wild accusations. The first rule of asking a public question like you have and you have an audience is answer the audience.

On to my next point. I am a die hard city fan I don't live in Bristol anymore but am here tomorrow and am going to the game with my 8 year old boy, I called the club to ask where they would recommend me taking him in the ground, I also asked if I could grab a beer inside, neither of these were answered with any real answer I'm still lost actually, I will reserve my judgement on the whole match day experience pre and post game til tomorrow.

So forum posters where wod you take your boy for the game and can I get a beer in the ground? Or where before with my little man cheers

I'd advise going in the Atyeo, maybe a bit further back in Block H. A block that not many people go in but I happen to think the view is quite good. You'll find beer a plenty in the substructural bar areas.

[Bubble]

Dave

I recently sent you an email discussing possible short term investment at AG. You informed me that you had passed that email on to Guy Price.

Over recent years I have worked tirelessly in my support of the new stadium trying to negate the arguments used by the opposition against it. I have attended all planning meetings, debates, ran the say yes to Tesco petition and spoken publicly at the council house. During that time I asked for and received no help from certain members at the club, all this has been done in my spare time.

To date I have not had a response from Guy Price about my email.

So in my opinion I would say that supporters are feeling used, because of very poor public relations.

But I will continue supporting my club.

[WTFiGO!?!]

There's a correlation between the law of the land and it's people, the two keep each other in check - or not as the case is here.

Now, sorry Dave, but think the consumer face of football has taken its toll on our Club. Hike the prices up: ''I'm not paying for other peoples football'', fine - when we're competing. Do feel the long-term, deep routed fan-base has been neglected/abused for years.

The Club's movement to treat it's fan base like shallow, X-Factor viewers was always destined to fail just as soon as the shit hit the fan, on the pitch.

Attitude towards the East End over the years isn't going to be a redeeming factor.

Time for the Club, at last, to listen to what the people who give a shit about this Club actually think. Humble pie time, if you will.

I'm not signing up to a rudderless ship next season, and I won't be the only one.

[Bubble]

Shaking my head. That's a PR disaster

Dave you need to treat this like an ask Steve and answer all of this in some capacity the lack of response since you asked the question is absurd

Here is the problem you asked the question NOW respond and quickly you are damaging the situation further without doing so, earn your corn take your crap but do something, your great approach at reaching out is commendable your lack of any comms since is embarrassing - who does your PR

[Pickled Onion]

Some great feedback above. From my perspective:

- lack of passion at the club (from players) and poor level of communication (from board and management) along with poor results on the pitch and insulting attitudes to fans (season ticket "extras") have combined to ensure every fan is struggling to be enthusiastic about the club or team.

- there seems to be little to zero liking or respect for fans from the players. I took my 6 year old to the open training session in the summer - whilst everyone could get an autograph there were no photos due to lack of time and the only team players to speak at all were Heaton and Gerkin, Stead and Woolford. Few of the others seemed able to or interested enough to even look up and speak to the fans or the kids that are tomorrow's fans. Surely a basic training and ability to represent the club well with both fans and the general public should be part of the job?

- The earlier post about opportunity to get autographs on way to ground is a great idea - at present the gulf between fans and players is huge and getting larger by the week as play on the pitch and behaviour off it suggests most players couldn't give a stuff for the club or fans. Players need to start building relationships - fast.

- lack of atmosphere - the tame walking out and shaking hands has killed a lot of excitement at the start of a game though not much you can do about that. Combined with poor results and ridiculous stewarding we are lucky to have any atmosphere at all.

- after Gary Johnson's rapport with fans, Millen seemed dull and McInnes, whilst undoubtedly passionate about wanting to succeed, rarely acknowledges the fans - there is just no connection. As someone has said previously it feels like he clearly can't tell us the story behind the scenes and the retrictions he's working to - cue more predictable post match interviews.

- lot said already about players' being unwilling to acknowledge supporters which I agree with - when the players come on the pitch most seem keen to wave to their families but seem loathe to acknowledge the fans. It's insulting.

- We have few players who love our club - Carey, Stead, Adomah the exceptions? We want the players to be proud and make us proud. The chant of "not fit to wear the shirt" applies to lack of passion and enthusiasm as well as ability.

- I really don't understand the club's strategy anymore. When Steve L and Gary J were in charge we felt united and a team of players and fans together heading in a common direction. Now all information feels like spin - designed to get us off players'/manager's back or get more money out of us.

- offers around season tickets were a disaster - feels like marketing team thought they had got one over on us thick fans. Will take time and effort to build that trust again.

- no nominated representative that speaks to us regularly. Steve Lansdown - we miss you.

We are a long way down a dark path. Even if we start winning a huge amount of damage has been done. Glad that there finally seems some interest in what we fans have to say. Hope all this feedback will see a difference in attitudes to and communication with the fans.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

We have lost touch with the players, 5 years ago you could ask players for autographs before the game and there were loads of kids stood by the pitch infront of the dolman, nowadays you get nothing.

I do like the BCFCtweets giveaways i feel that has worked well so far, and was a good idea. Also the players in the community park before the games more stuff like this please.

Also make tickets cheaper for students and youngsters, as a thread already says not many people are going to pay £14 for an 4 year old cut it to £3 and more people will bite and more revenue.

[HomerRed]

Wow. If some of the passion in this thread could be reflected on and off the pitch on matchday that would be the battle half won.

I'd like to make a couple of points about the lack of communication.

There was about 36 hours notice (if that) when the club called annual fans meeting (formerly AGM). It seemed like a deliberate ploy to avoid a big crowd and a lot more awkward questions for Derek and the directors.

When it was an AGM for shareholders the club would have been obliged to give adequate notice. For many this is their one chance in the whole year to hold the club up to some scrutiny.

For me that whole episode summed up the club's current attitude to the supporters. (I have read above that even a senior Trust member whose main function is to bridge the club-fans gap could not make the meeting).

Despite that, actually seeing some quotes from the chairman and other board members reported afterwards kept me going for a few days and thinking that they are trying. Trouble is, it all dries up again.

Okay, the chairman Keith Dawe is not one for big speeches, but he could at least have a column in the programme or on the website (or both). Some sort of insight from the board would be welcome.

Oh, and I just wanted to add that I have had stewards greeting me and saying 'enjoy the game' and suchlike . . . AT AWAY GROUNDS ..... !

[marcofisher]

One thing I would like to point out is a huge mistake an could possibly lose you a good few hundred bums on seats is what I feel is a complete error by your ticketing team by having the age for a child under 16 rather than under 18. I was completely and utterly shocked this summer when I received a phone call when I was still 15 telling me that because I will be 16 during next season I cannot have an under 16 season ticket (£55) and that I have to pay for a student season card, which cost me the best part of 170 pound, this is ridiculous, at the age of 15 which Is below the legal working age are 15 year olds supposedly meant to magic up 170 pound, even if someone of 16-18 years of age was to have a job it would be on a mimimum wage. Obviously in the end I did have to buy a student season ticket, but I had to burrow the money from family and pay them back SEASON TICKETS ARE MEANT TO BE AFFORDABLE VALUE FOR MONEY. Even if 16-17 didn't have season tickets, they would still have to pay around 20 pound a match to get in(full adult prices I believe) which is absolute extortion for someone of that age, that should be the age you want them to be going and getting behind there team every week! Not forcing them out by making them pay adult prices!

[marcofisher]

Also I am not accusing the security guard of anything at all but at one moment in the derby match most of the eastend starting making gestures to the derby fans after they were singing about us, but out of all the big men standing up swearing and cursing across to the away supporters, the security guard delved into the crowd to pull out my small coloured friend who had made a quick hand gesture to the away fans and threatened to kick him out! Now obviously what he had done was wrong but it is quite amazing how with all the huge big men using the rudest language you can think of and making the rudest hand gestures that the security guard said nothing to him but went and delved into the crowd to pick out my coloured friend who was barely visible to yell in his face and threaten to kick him out! Now I wouldn't dare accuse the security guard in question of racism or being a bully for scouting out someone a lot smaller to yell at, I'm just going to put it to coincidence, but if it happens again it shall be very disappointing.

[cityloyal473]

Seriously, if this is your attitude, then get the **** out of our club,

What parts of my post do you disagree with?

Do tell.

[bcfcbs20]

The thing that pisses me off the most is every single player is paid very very well and with that you would expect every game those players would give everything they have got for 90+ minutes every single game. But for whatever reason they seem to roll over at ease something every Bristol City fan is not happy to see how can they be it doesn't say much when 90% of the crowd would play for the shirt with more passion and pride than the current crop of players seem capable of. We are Bristol City FFS put the shirt on and play with some f###ing pride if the players want to see what that means watch some re-runs of past City teams and then go out and do it on the pitch rant over.

[Woolford's Hairband]

I used to be a regular at Ashton Gate and until this year had a season ticket since the 1999/2000 season. Other commitments meant that it wasn't worth me buying a season ticket as I would not get enough use from it. On the odd occasions I have been able to go to games there are a few things that I have noticed. The East End used to be full of noise and colour and excitement it all seems to have gone. I know the results don't help but surely the club should do whatever possible not just in the East End but around the whole ground to get the gate rocking again. The megaphone and the drum as much as some disliked them did help create and maintain an atmosphere. The flags and banners showed passion, the East End just seems so lifeless and it is such a shame to see.

I wanted to go to the Millwall game on New Year's Day looked at the coach prices and saw a £5 difference between members and non members prices. I know that there has to be some benefits to having a season ticket but surely making a £5 difference is a bit steep, it makes it feel like only season ticket holders are wanted and people who are non season ticket holders who fancy going away to support the team are being given a bit of a rough deal.

The media and communications department has gone drastically downhill in the last 12 months. I know that budgets etc were a part but it just seems that the good media team we had here has been broken up and replaced with a bunch of youngsters who do not have the experience or passion for the job. I have been on the site and seen spelling mistakes and other errors that make the site look amateurish. There are even some fellow City fans who have blogs that I enjoy reading and I find the quality of the work to be better than some of what is churned out by the media department.

There doesn't seem to be many friendly faces around anymore. People like Jayne Maggs who had a rapport with fans and spoke to people on a personal level made people feel welcome and that they were valued by the club. It may have only been the ticket office but it was nice to have that interaction a bit like a pub landlord with their regulars etc. It just seems that there is not a personal touch anymore at the club. The stewards particularly in the East End in my opinion even right from the beginning of the matchday experience, before any confrontations or annoyances are in some cases very rude and very unwelcoming. The body language, the way you are spoken to it reminds me of being back at school sometimes and that some of the stewards see themselves in the headmaster's role. A couple of years ago you could have a chat in there with them and they would do their job in a different way to what I have witnessed in there on the two occasions I have been in there this season.

The attitude of certain players is also a worry. I know gone are the days where access to the players was less restricted and there are reasons for that. However, when I see players come out of the dressing room and ignore children who are just after an autograph or a quick photo and have been waiting there for a while just seems a bit rude. Would it really hurt them to spend just a few seconds doing something like that before returning to their posh motor. The players don't seem to have that connection to the fans that there used to be. I know there are far less Bristolian players than in previous years but it seems that there is not much effort been made by the players to try and get the fans on side as such. Maybe if there was a bit more feeling that the players did connect with the fans it would help improve the atmosphere on matchdays. I feel that some players do make an effort and it was refreshing to see Jon Stead and Martyn Woolford on Twitter, it gave the fans a small link to the inside. It may have been trivial but things like Jon Stead's ' Cereal Combos ' and the ' Where's Wooly ' with Martyn Woolford did get fans involved and in turn I feel that especially Stead was received a lot better and became more of a ' Fan Favourite '.

On a similar note to player attitudes some advice to them on what is and isn't suitable behaviour on a Saturday night may not go a miss. I'm not saying that the players shouldn't have a social life but after a heavy defeat is it really wise that players should be out on the town as if they don't have a care in the world and in some cases behaving inappropriately. It does not go down well at all that having spent what seems to be an ever increasing amount of money to watch the team that they then go out after underperforming and act like ' Big Time Charlie's '

I know that football is more than ever a business but I just feel that in general that the club now is even compared to two or three years ago light years apart. The togetherness and spirit that was there has drastically gone. It seems that all the club is interested in is that they get us through the turnstiles then when that is done that the job is done and that there is nothing more that they have to do. I would love to see the Gate full of colour, noise, enthusiasm and passion from the top of the club right down. Positivity and an eagerness for things to improve on all levels filters down from the boardroom to the club staff, from the coaches and manager to the training ground, from the players to the fans. It is all one big chain and as soon as the wheels are put in motion, I hope that we will start to see improvements from all aspects of the club.

[Guest]

Personally, the enjoyment of watching City has faded out over the past 2 years or so.

So here is my moan,

1) POTD tickets are ridiculously priced. Even advance tickets are harsh on those who can't afford £22-30 every saturday. 5000-8000 empty seats a game = £0 Revenue, and looks awful.

2) You do little to encourage youngsters and students to get involvled and attend games. What happened to the student rate we once provided?

3) EastEnd: Besides this stand being the best for atmosphere IMO,

• The divide between fans is too large.
• Un-offensive banners/flags should be allowed in the stand (My friend recently was told he would be ejected from the stadium if he did not put a medium sized banner of an england flag with Bristol City written on it, away because it was a hazard :S
• I know a few die-hards who would love to bring a speakphone in the stand to get the fans going, could that ever be considered?
• Most fans stand in EE, so I hope you're considering safe standing rail seats in there.
• Away fans should be bunched up, so our fans can be behind the goal.

4) The players: They don't seem to have a passion or fight in them to win a game, one goal goes in and our heads drop.

5) I don't think many of us are looking forward to another 'relagation battle' this year!

I've probbably, quoted a lot of posts, but I couldn't be bothered to go through them all!

Thanks, XJAP.

Good post this and sums it up so far, points also made;

re the physical gate barriers between players and fans, there must be a way to get these down, for many young ones the "going up to players as they got out of their cars was a highlight of their day"

We know the catering brings in a good contract but linleys or whoever dont pay, we do, when we buy from them, see what you can do?

More "deals" could be done to get more bums on seats re reduced admission, as its surely better to have more fans in.

The E.E problems should be attended to as a matter of urgency, squash the away fans up, City behind goal,relax restrictions, open to all for every game give home fans first choice of tickets, bend health and saftey "rules"

Directors need to be more visable and a perm q and a should be run on here.

Most fans do feel allienated and detatched from their club sort out the above and you will go a long way to reversing that.

If not for the fans do it for season ticket sales which will drop alarmingly unless changes occur.

[Never to the dark side]

I think Gary Johnson had those barrier gates implemented.

Because players were arriving late for roll call after signing thousands of autographs

Well I don't think any footballers know what a clocking on machine looks like

and its not as if they are in a factory production enviorment making nuts and bolts

Like Regan said to Gorbachev

TEAR DOWN THESE GATES

[Jon atyeo is my dad]

My reason for not being valued is as follows :-I have supported City since the 60's and have been attending with my son for the last 20 years.I have not lived in Bristol for 40 years but still attend almost every match home and away.We used to have season tickets in the Platinum part of the Williams but when these were removed I had many calls from the Club almost begging me to move to the Premier Seats.Reluctantly I agreed a five year deal for us both but only as this was a way of retaining my Car Park Ticket which I had held or many years and was useful for a quick getaway.After a few games as my son did not like the dress code of the Premier I agreed with the Club for his package to be downgraded which meant he could keep the seat but not use the Club facilities.We carried this on fo a further 6 years and although I had access to the facilities I rarely used them as preferred to drink at BS3! During this period I was paying between the 2 of us around £1800 a year for the 2 tickets which were good seats located on the half way line.However, this summer I was told by Oli Barton who I don't even know if he is still at the Club? that even tough I was prepared to carry on paying this extortionate amount that the seats were too good for us as we were not paying for the full Premier facilities for my son and that they should be relinquished and made available only to Corporate fans ie those fans that never go away or go to the odd ocasional home game!My point is that I supported the Club by paying silly money for the last 6 years I support them home and away every week despite the financial climate, they however, felt I was not worthy of a seat on the half way line!

I find that completely shocking and the clubs back room staff total idiots in suits if these facts are true.

[Dolman Block B]

Arn

I've read your posts for years never commented. You are spot on

That's kind mate and thanks

The unrest and bad feeling amongst fans is the worst I have ever known

I have four mates upy local who are season ticket holders who have not bothered with the last four home games and have no intention of renewing again

Myself and wife no longer get that " buzz" for match days in fact we have found ourselves offering our season tickets to others as we can't be bothered

Sadly most of the time "others" don't even want the chance of a freebie!!!

What's the answer?

Well oviously some success on the pitch for a start but communication from the board to the fans would help.

I really hope Steve Lansdown reads this thread and addresses it with something to give the fans some optimism for the future of the club.

Other than that bringing in someone who can.

As for he players?

Once again, less bull and more passion needed.

The football is dire and new players who can help retain our championship status is a MUST in Jan.

[Manon]

The club is faceless, from board level, right down through the manager to the players.

This is the time for leadership if ever there was a time, yet there is none whatsoever. The board need to stop hiding, stand up and lead by example. Maybe then the players will follow suit.

Mcinnes pulled off a rather miraculous houdini escape last season, but not this time. Not saying I've completely given up, but I fully expect us to be playing league 1 football next season.

[stroudy]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for coming on here and asking what must be a difficult question with some great responses.

I dont however buy into the board and not being able to communicate properly. These guys are highly successful business men and would have had to speak to big groups of people.

Perhaps the issue is either a lack of footy knowledge or they just dont want to speak to us.

I think some of the issues stem from small things such as not being involved in kit selection process as others have said. Although this is a small suggestion many fans dont like most of the recent kits and this loses money for the club.

The set up of the open day this year also doesnt help. Something a lot of fans look forward to is meeting the new players the day after a home game at the start of a season, not on a weekday when most fans are working.

Most important is the fans no longer feel listened to, hopefully this will resolve some of it.

There just doesnt seem to be enough communications on relevant topics.

Who knows whats happening with the stadium anymore or player recruitment.

We've heard lots of times regards players "i dont want to reveal as other clubs may scupper any moves".

This statement seems irrelvant as we dont get the players we want anyway!

Hope this doesn't seem like a rant as its not meant to come across like that.

There has been lots of good responses and i hope some are taken onboard.

[Andy Horsman]

My reason for not being valued is as follows :-I have supported City since the 60's and have been attending with my son for the last 20 years.I have not lived in Bristol for 40 years but still attend almost every match home and away.We used to have season tickets in the Platinum part of the Williams but when these were removed I had many calls from the Club almost begging me to move to the Premier Seats.Reluctantly I agreed a five year deal for us both but only as this was a way of retaining my Car Park Ticket which I had held or many years and was useful for a quick getaway.After a few games as my son did not like the dress code of the Premier I agreed with the Club for his package to be downgraded which meant he could keep the seat but not use the Club facilities.We carried this on fo a further 6 years and although I had access to the facilities I rarely used them as preferred to drink at BS3! During this period I was paying between the 2 of us around £1800 a year for the 2 tickets which were good seats located on the half way line.However, this summer I was told by Oli Barton who I don't even know if he is still at the Club? that even tough I was prepared to carry on paying this extortionate amount that the seats were too good for us as we were not paying for the full Premier facilities for my son and that they should be relinquished and made available only to Corporate fans ie those fans that never go away or go to the odd ocasional home game!My point is that I supported the Club by paying silly money for the last 6 years I support them home and away every week despite the financial climate, they however, felt I was not worthy of a seat on the half way line!

In a single word, 'staggered!' such poor judgement on the club's part. Loyalty clearly is a one way street at BCFC!

[Dollymarie]

Dave

I recently sent you an email discussing possible short term investment at AG. You informed me that you had passed that email on to Guy Price.

Over recent years I have worked tirelessly in my support of the new stadium trying to negate the arguments used by the opposition against it. I have attended all planning meetings, debates, ran the say yes to Tesco petition and spoken publicly at the council house. During that time I asked for and received no help from certain members at the club, all this has been done in my spare time.

To date I have not had a response from Guy Price about my email.

So in my opinion I would say that supporters are feeling used, because of very poor public relations.

But I will continue supporting my club.

Rich, considering all you did for the club, without being asked, and simply because you (as do many of us) love our club, the lack of response is nothing short of shameful.

[Dave L]

I'm still reading. Excellent thread.

I'm going to be really busy at work today, but I will find time to talk this through with colleagues. I will aim to sit down tomorrow and give a detailed and considered response to the many points that are being raised.

Hopefully that will be on the back of 3 points today.

[Club and Country]

Dave,

The club is dying, theres no spirit, no togetherness, nothing.

Poor PR, faceless people running the club.

Players don't give a toss, that much is blatantly obvious. Seeing money that WE as fans put into the club being wasted on uncommitted, overpaid dross is galling.

As a supporter i feel like i'm just a cash machine for the club, put your money in and keep your mouth shut.

The run down facilities don't help either.

If the club was a dog, they'd have put it down a long time ago.

I've totally fallen out of love with the club.

The club has a massive, massive job on its hands to correct the disconnect with the fans.

Exactly the above

[MC RISK77]

That's kind mate and thanks

The unrest and bad feeling amongst fans is the worst I have ever known

I have four mates upy local who are season ticket holders who have not bothered with the last four home games and have no intention of renewing again

Myself and wife no longer get that " buzz" for match days in fact we have found ourselves offering our season tickets to others as we can't be bothered

Sadly most of the time "others" don't even want the chance of a freebie!!!

What's the answer?

Well oviously some success on the pitch for a start but communication from the board to the fans would help.

I really hope Steve Lansdown reads this thread and addresses it with something to give the fans some optimism for the future of the club.

Other than that bringing in someone who can.

As for he players?

Once again, less bull and more passion needed.

The football is dire and new players who can help retain our championship status is a MUST in Jan.

Arn, many thanks for this as it reflects exactly how i feel about things.....Up until this season i had a season ticket for the previous 3 years. Going to Ashton Gate was a chance for me to catch up on a regular basis with some of my close friends who i used to play football with on a saturday, once we all packed up playing.

Under Johnson it was a great experience, a togetherness "We always believe" players who had not as much ability as others in the championship but who would fight like mad for the shirt (Basso,Adebola,McCombe,McCallister,Johnson,Mcindoe), somehow the management team and the fans made them believe they could achieve something special, and they so nearly did.

I remember the games where we would be losing but you always felt we could come back (wolves 2-2, plymouth 2-2, etc) and then walking out of the ground to "drink up thee cider" feeling like you had been entertained and the players cared as much as you.

Parking up Chessel Street and then walking up for a full english at Tasty Stop, putting the bets on at Corals, then onto BS3 for a few beers a smoke and a good time, looking around and seeing people anticipating City putting up a fight against the bigger sides with the better players, the banter with opposing fans, the noise of Ashton Gate....those tuesday nights under johnson when we first came up, im sure no opposing side enjoyed coming to Ashton Gate.

I cant put my finger on where and why it was lost, but Millen was a poor appointment and for me the fight had been lost with the team he put together, the players drifted away from the fans, i briefly got it back when McCinnes first got appointed, he managed to get albert and maynard to play beautifully together and we crafted some results. However i went to the forest home game last year which ended 0-0 which was back in December, and finally that day i lost the buzz.

I sold my s/t for the rest of the season, and for the last 5 games traded it in for free gardening the rest of the summer.

Steve Lansdown is now a silent voice, he has done so much for this club in his backing, buying the land to build the stadium we all crave, but i wish he was back running the club full time again. He was a personable chairman, influential, and gave us a much higher profile in the media.

I have a ticket bought for me today and i really want to go and meet up with the lads again, but it is more of a chore rather than a labour of love to drive all the way from Emersons Green to go and watch those limp wristed players let the fans down again.

I have total admiration for any fan who travels to every home game from outside of Bristol....these are tough times but the saddest thing is for me, is that im watching a team sink without even putting up a fight.

[Dolman Block B]

I'm still reading. Excellent thread.

I'm going to be really busy at work today, but I will find time to talk this through with colleagues. I will aim to sit down tomorrow and give a detailed and considered response to the many points that are being raised.

Hopefully that will be on the back of 3 points today.

With all due respect Dave, your response is not what is called for.

Passing on others views/comments on this appauling situation is no good at all.

SLansdown, K Dawe, D McCinnes have to face the fans and not behind a written statement

[Dolman Block B]

Arn, many thanks for this as it reflects exactly how i feel about things.....Up until this season i had a season ticket for the previous 3 years. Going to Ashton Gate was a chance for me to catch up on a regular basis with some of my close friends who i used to play football with on a saturday, once we all packed up playing.

Under Johnson it was a great experience, a togetherness "We always believe" players who had not as much ability as others in the championship but who would fight like mad for the shirt (Basso,Adebola,McCombe,McCallister,Johnson,Mcindoe), somehow the management team and the fans made them believe they could achieve something special, and they so nearly did.

I remember the games where we would be losing but you always felt we could come back (wolves 2-2, plymouth 2-2, etc) and then walking out of the ground to "drink up thee cider" feeling like you had been entertained and the players cared as much as you.

Parking up Chessel Street and then walking up for a full english at Tasty Stop, putting the bets on at Corals, then onto BS3 for a few beers a smoke and a good time, looking around and seeing people anticipating City putting up a fight against the bigger sides with the better players, the banter with opposing fans, the noise of Ashton Gate....those tuesday nights under johnson when we first came up, im sure no opposing side enjoyed coming to Ashton Gate.

I cant put my finger on where and why it was lost, but Millen was a poor appointment and for me the fight had been lost with the team he put together, the players drifted away from the fans, i briefly got it back when McCinnes first got appointed, he managed to get albert and maynard to play beautifully together and we crafted some results. However i went to the forest home game last year which ended 0-0 which was back in December, and finally that day i lost the buzz.

I sold my s/t for the rest of the season, and for the last 5 games traded it in for free gardening the rest of the summer.

Steve Lansdown is now a silent voice, he has done so much for this club in his backing, buying the land to build the stadium we all crave, but i wish he was back running the club full time again. He was a personable chairman, influential, and gave us a much higher profile in the media.

I have a ticket bought for me today and i really want to go and meet up with the lads again, but it is more of a chore rather than a labour of love to drive all the way from Emersons Green to go and watch those limp wristed players let the fans down again.

I have total admiration for any fan who travels to every home game from outside of Bristol....these are tough times but the saddest thing is for me, is that im watching a team sink without even putting up a fight.

Nothing more to add!!!!!

[Jon atyeo is my dad]

That's kind mate and thanks

The unrest and bad feeling amongst fans is the worst I have ever known

I have four mates upy local who are season ticket holders who have not bothered with the last four home games and have no intention of renewing again

Myself and wife no longer get that " buzz" for match days in fact we have found ourselves offering our season tickets to others as we can't be bothered

Sadly most of the time "others" don't even want the chance of a freebie!!!

What's the answer?

Well oviously some success on the pitch for a start but communication from the board to the fans would help.

I really hope Steve Lansdown reads this thread and addresses it with something to give the fans some optimism for the future of the club.

Other than that bringing in someone who can.

As for he players?

Once again, less bull and more passion needed.

The football is dire and new players who can help retain our championship status is a MUST in Jan.

Spot on

[Jon atyeo is my dad]

Arn, many thanks for this as it reflects exactly how i feel about things.....Up until this season i had a season ticket for the previous 3 years. Going to Ashton Gate was a chance for me to catch up on a regular basis with some of my close friends who i used to play football with on a saturday, once we all packed up playing.

Under Johnson it was a great experience, a togetherness "We always believe" players who had not as much ability as others in the championship but who would fight like mad for the shirt (Basso,Adebola,McCombe,McCallister,Johnson,Mcindoe), somehow the management team and the fans made them believe they could achieve something special, and they so nearly did.

I remember the games where we would be losing but you always felt we could come back (wolves 2-2, plymouth 2-2, etc) and then walking out of the ground to "drink up thee cider" feeling like you had been entertained and the players cared as much as you.

Parking up Chessel Street and then walking up for a full english at Tasty Stop, putting the bets on at Corals, then onto BS3 for a few beers a smoke and a good time, looking around and seeing people anticipating City putting up a fight against the bigger sides with the better players, the banter with opposing fans, the noise of Ashton Gate....those tuesday nights under johnson when we first came up, im sure no opposing side enjoyed coming to Ashton Gate.

I cant put my finger on where and why it was lost, but Millen was a poor appointment and for me the fight had been lost with the team he put together, the players drifted away from the fans, i briefly got it back when McCinnes first got appointed, he managed to get albert and maynard to play beautifully together and we crafted some results. However i went to the forest home game last year which ended 0-0 which was back in December, and finally that day i lost the buzz.

I sold my s/t for the rest of the season, and for the last 5 games traded it in for free gardening the rest of the summer.

Steve Lansdown is now a silent voice, he has done so much for this club in his backing, buying the land to build the stadium we all crave, but i wish he was back running the club full time again. He was a personable chairman, influential, and gave us a much higher profile in the media.

I have a ticket bought for me today and i really want to go and meet up with the lads again, but it is more of a chore rather than a labour of love to drive all the way from Emersons Green to go and watch those limp wristed players let the fans down again.

I have total admiration for any fan who travels to every home game from outside of Bristol....these are tough times but the saddest thing is for me, is that im watching a team sink without even putting up a fight.

Great post

[Club and Country]

I'm still reading. Excellent thread.

I'm going to be really busy at work today, but I will find time to talk this through with colleagues. I will aim to sit down tomorrow and give a detailed and considered response to the many points that are being raised.

Hopefully that will be on the back of 3 points today.

Exactly the response we have come to expect, why post and then say your to busy to reply?

Unfortunately Dave I have no time for you, due to an east end situation earlier in the year, where you informed me the ee had not been sold out all year, despite the ticket office on two occasions telling me it was...,, but then again the club is behind the ee right?

Completely contradicting the above kind off, my only issue is the passion from the players, that's what will get me back down the gate, and unfortunately don't think you can help on that one!!

Ps, have you ever thought about visiting the lions, bs3 or robins before, during and after a game? A lot of your questions would be answered....

[dafarms]

For me it's the players attitude to the fans. I can remember going to my local or into town with quite a few of the City players over the years. They loved having a drink and having a laugh with the fans, the last being the likes of Cramb, Murray, Plumber, Nugent etc..

The players now would not lower them selves into coming into local pubs and meeting supporters, they all seem to want to be in their little V.I.P areas away from us, the fans. This was evident last year, when my old man, a well known City supporter went into a Italian restaurant last season, after we had just won a game and was told by another City Suppporter, that there were three of City's players in there.

He went over to them and congratulated them on a good win, and this was all he said. The players caled the manager over to ask him to ask my old man to go away. Says it all about professional football players today, and this is why I don't like the game anymore, but I still buy my season ticket, and go every game, but do not enjoy it anymore.

[newboy]

First post of mine for ages, but whilst I agree with a lot of the points on here (re: food, fan interaction etc) I feel that there's a bigger issue and that is leadership and vision.

Even when things weren't rosy on the pitch, with Steve L's regular posts and fan interaction and Gary's interviews and exposure to his strategy (remember the personal targets stuff he did for each player?) we all understood that at least there was a plan and that there was a vision of sorts to believe in. Notably it was only when Gary failed to have a plan B that all things started to go sour.

Now it seems rudderless and there's ominous silence when strong leadership is most needed. I can't speak for everyone, but especially when things aren't going well on pitch, I need to have some justified faith that there is a plan or some safeguards to sort out the issues and move forwards. If there isn't, what is the point in putting up with the short term pain of what we see on the pitch?

We hear lots about vague mentions through informal channels about changes behind the scenes. What exactly has changed? How does this fit into a larger strategy? What is this strategy? What are the timelines for each milestone? How is it measured? All basic stuff that should be shared with the punters if you expect us to fund the ride.

What is the board prepared to do (and at what point) about our league position? What is Derek's overall plan? Has he ever had one? When he was interviewed as a promising young manager he must have shared some kind of vision with the board to inspire them enough to choose him. What was this? Because quite frankly right now I've no confidence that he knows what he's doing.

To be a good leader you need to have a clear vision, communicate that effectively and have a contingency in case things don't go well. That inspires confidence and results usually follow assuming the vision is sound and the person carrying out the vision is at least competent. Absolutely no evidence of this exists at the moment from either the board or Derek. And as such I can have no faith that we can turn this around in either the short term or more worryingly the longer term.

I've literally no vision to "buy into" and so therefore why would you expect me to keep on paying a relatively large amount of money to pay for it? Like it or not, you have to convince us paying punters to buy into whatever you're selling. Have a plan and communicate it. At least that way you'll appear part way competent. Having a board that are largely anonymous and a manager who doesn't appear to have a clue and who can't settle on a team, formation or tangible plan is not inspiring.

We've heard nothing but silence about the current position, let alone the bigger 'plan' and that's frankly arrogant or incompetent. If things are going badly for as long as they have then the board are answerable and should be doing everything in their powers to calm the fans and give them confidence that things are under control and issues are being addressed.

This is nothing about being short term glory-fan-boy who will only turn up if you can guarantee a win every match. This is about having faith in the leadership and ultimately watching something I can believe in. At present I can't. And judging from the amount of times I've seen "lost faith" written on otib recently I suspect I'm not alone.

To me this is basic schoolboy stuff and the fact that neither the board nor Derek seem to grasp this is nothing short of criminal. And to me, this must be sorted out before the other important hygiene stuff such as player media behaviour, catering, bookies, flags or stewarding are addressed.

Hope this helps, but given the current board/management I doubt anything will change since they are responsible for the above.

Edit: note that the teams that have 'over performed' in the last few years - Swansea (passing football) and Blackpool (attack!) had a gameplan that was communicated and clear. Fans could buy into that and were even willing to be patient when the results took a little while to come to fruition. I've literally no idea what strategy our current board/manager has - it certainly isn't shoring up the defence. It isn't all out attack. It isn't youth. It isn't getting experienced Championship players in. It isn't utilising lower league talent. It isn't anything!