'gap Between Club And Fans As Wide As It's Ever Been'

[bcfcsouth]

Also, the club have a habit, of doing something and then telling fans after about it.

E.G, doing something in the eastend and then telling fans about it.

Also, the cynic in me feels, that stating that fans can swap tickets from Wednesday games for tomorrow game, while tucked away in a news article wont open, is to try and get more money out of fans. Just by fans not noticing it. So when a fan goes, but i didnt know, you can go "But look, it was on the website", even though i doubt many saw it.

There should of been its owns news article for items like that.

[Guest]

There appears to be a big gap between club and fans.

Start with some basics.

Open the walkway behind the Atyeo at all times, allow the youngsters who used to collect autographs access to the players as they leave their cars, if necessary have a couple of stewards around to ensure the players aren't late into the changing rooms.

I believe Health and Safety was the reason given for the closing of the access, absolute nonsense. I used to queue to get Atyeo's autograph, he didn't always sign for everyone (me included), but getting up close to your hero as a youngster is something that makes you want to be a fan, and connects you to the players and club.

The Chairman is supposed to be the driving force in any organisation, ours is unknown to virtually all of the supporters, some kind of statement on the web site or in the programme before and after every game would be welcome...what's he thinking? What are his views? Was he at the game?

Encourage the local media to provide better coverage of the club, warts and all, if we're not doing well let them ask the questions the fans want answered, rather than the bland stuff we get now.

Try as you might you aren't going to please all of the fans, some of whom will have expectations beyond those that the average fan would consider reasonable, however at the moment, the club is going backwards at a rate of knots.

I was frankly both amazed, and pleased to see the opening post...it's a start

[paulcitymod]

Consultation on the shirt/kit? No of course not. IMO the worst design city have ever had and you cannot see the sponsor name, very poor choice

I have to come a long way to see games and I need my 12 year old son to be interested too so I can juggle family care. Since the awful Charlton game he says he won't go anymore, so that makes it very difficult for me to go. I wish I could say it was just the really poor effort of the team that day but it is more, a lot of small things making it less and less pleasant for him and me. God he used to love going to games

Sure a winning team and we forget the little details but when they don't the focus goes onto whatever enjoyment can be derived from the professional entertainment experience that we pay to go and see. There is little else to compensate

A dead atmosphere in the Dolman bar, and very angry booing the like I have never seen before at AG. It shows there is more wrong than just the pitch stuff

[Chivs]

As Supporter Liaison Officer, don't you think you should know the answer to this question?

Perhaps you are part of the problem rather than the solution. Where was your job advertised and how many were interviewed for it? When were you last in BS3 just before a game? You know, liaising with supporters....

Similarly, where was Jon Lansdowne's job advertised and who was interviewed for one of the most important jobs at City?

Having said that, at least I know Jon's name even if it's only because his father is the owner. I assume Jon still works for us. What do the other directors do? And are they planning on any type of communication with the "paying customer"?

Take a look at the official website. It used to be a to class series of articles and so on. Now, it's barely worth looking at. However, I have just visited to see about the refund policy for Watford game. It says "club's Supporters Services team will be able to issue a refund". WTF is the "club's Supporters Services team"???? I guess the Commercial Director could tell me in between visits to Arsenal games.

Finally, I used to get excellent service from Jayne Maggs in the ticket office. She helped me out on a couple of occasions. What happened to the top-notch personal touch that made me feel part of the Bristol City family? Perhaps the Chairman can tell me in between promoting the "brand".

You get what you sow.

[bristolcitysweden]

Board support the manager and intend to speak through football. Clearly does not work (for years and years). Could as well toss a coin. Set up a signing commission and include fans.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

The players are petrified of the supporters for some reason and don't properly acknowledge us at the end of games. I remember on a couple of occassions Gary Johnson sent injured players into the away end to sit with supporters for games. Now we're lucky if two senior players can be arsed to walk over and clap the support.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

As Supporter Liaison Officer, don't you think you should know the answer to this question?

Perhaps you are part of the problem rather than the solution. Where was your job advertised and how many were interviewed for it? When were you last in BS3 just before a game? You know, liaising with supporters....

Similarly, where was Jon Lansdowne's job advertised and who was interviewed for one of the most important jobs at City?

Having said that, at least I know Jon's name even if it's only because his father is the owner. I assume Jon still works for us. What do the other directors do? And are they planning on any type of communication with the "paying customer"?

Take a look at the official website. It used to be a to class series of articles and so on. Now, it's barely worth looking at. However, I have just visited to see about the refund policy for Watford game. It says "club's Supporters Services team will be able to issue a refund". WTF is the "club's Supporters Services team"???? I guess the Commercial Director could tell me in between visits to Arsenal games.

Finally, I used to get excellent service from Jayne Maggs in the ticket office. She helped me out on a couple of occasions. What happened to the top-notch personal touch that made me feel part of the Bristol City family? Perhaps the Chairman can tell me in between promoting the "brand".

You get what you sow.

Excellent post

[BS15_RED]

The fact that most of the players are overpaid play boys who don't give a toss for the shirt they wear, football is sanitised and match days at the Gate are a prime example of this, most matches there's less atmosphere than on the moon. The fact that the clubs tries to rinse us for money on a regular basis, the latest batch of food vouchers being nothing short of insulting, 50p off a burger? No thanks! Maybe most if this is just exacerbated by the fact we've been in a relegation scrap for the last three seasons and relegation this season is starting to look inevitable, yes I know no team has ever been relegated in December, but I don't think this group of players have the ability or the heart to get us out of this sad predicament. The lack of clear leadership from the boardroom is also very concerning, the fact that we very rarely, if ever hear from the chairman is alarming in my opinion. Maybe none if the points I've made above are valid reasons, but it's why I feel seriously disenfranchised from the club I love. I will renew my season ticket in the summer, regardless of what ever division we are playing in come August.

[Simez]

I personally feel the players couldn't give a flying toss. They haven't won a game since I don't know when at home (I do really) and yet the players can't wait to get out on the lash in town. It's a time McInnes got a grip on the drinking culture like Johnson did.

You want to know how people feel, that's how I feel....

[BITW]

There appears to be a big gap between club and fans.

Start with some basics.

Open the walkway behind the Atyeo at all times, allow the youngsters who used to collect autographs access to the players as they leave their cars, if necessary have a couple of stewards around to ensure the players aren't late into the changing rooms.

I believe Health and Safety was the reason given for the closing of the access, absolute nonsense. I used to queue to get Atyeo's autograph, he didn't always sign for everyone (me included), but getting up close to your hero as a youngster is something that makes you want to be a fan, and connects you to the players and club.

The Chairman is supposed to be the driving force in any organisation, ours is unknown to virtually all of the supporters, some kind of statement on the web site or in the programme before and after every game would be welcome...what's he thinking? What are his views? Was he at the game?

Encourage the local media to provide better coverage of the club, warts and all, if we're not doing well let them ask the questions the fans want answered, rather than the bland stuff we get now.

Try as you might you aren't going to please all of the fans, some of whom will have expectations beyond those that the average fan would consider reasonable, however at the moment, the club is going backwards at a rate of knots.

I was frankly both amazed, and pleased to see the opening post...it's a start

Great points. Stop feeding the fans the same old scripted crap in every post match interview. Start asking the harder questions that us fans want to know about.

[BCAGFC]

It would be good if our current bunch of players actually admitted (through the media, club and personally to anyone who will listen) that the situation the club is in is mostly their fault through extremely poor performances.

I can take a few misplaced passes due to lack of confidence but I will not accept less than 100% effort from each player during the 90 minutes, IMO we are not getting that from most of the current bunch, especially when we play at home.

Players used to be accessable years ago, now all they want to do is jump into their Bentley and head off to their Portishead Penthouse or jump on the train to London for a jolly good night out in Annabells. The players christmas party was EXTREMELY poor PR for the club IMO.....it should have been cancelled by the management.

We have no figurehead at the club anymore since SL moved to Guernsey, at times like this we need leaders both on & off the pitch.

BCAGFC

[Rob k]

Dave, can I ask what your views on this are?

For me personally it makes me sick that this current squad cost 14 odd million to pay over the last year, I have absolutely no intention of paying upwards of £25 (yes I know EE is cheaper) to watch a team that IMO does not give a shit.

Whilst there is no leader on the pitch this will not change, I still back Mcinnes but he has to buy a few players who play like they care.

We also have never replaced GJ in terms of how good he was with the fans/media and others have alluded to SL moving to guernsey IMO has made people feel uneasy as to weather he's still in it for the long run.

Rumours are left to fester and are never quashed by the club, ie the stadium, the fans don't have a clue what's going on and that comes from having a chairman that never speaks, in fact how many fans could point Keith Dawe out in a crowd and I would also bet a fair few fans would not even know who our chairman is.

[paulcitymod]

Gotta keep bumping this up. Great posts and as Dave L is asking, he may actually pass it on to someone who may actually read it who matters. Bump

[simonwheeler]

My two penny worth is as follows. I have to agree with so much that has been previously stated. Most of the players (Albert, Cunningham and perhaps Stead perhaps) look like they couldnt give a toss about the supporters or playing for the shirt and talking of shirts this brings me on to my MAIN POINT. As I was bored (Like so many others) during the second half of the Derby game I took the time out to count how many fans were actually sporting this seasons AWFUL home shirt? From my position I could find less than 2 dozen. Now not so long ago most City supporters essential wear for home games was wearing the shirt - But not now it appears. I wonder why??? Price or just simply its horrendous (And also I often wonder if these shirts have played a part in our awful season? If I struggle to pick out our players then I can only presume that the players also struggle to pick out their own team mates).

Also like a lot has previously stated apart from Marina Dolman and yourself (Who are both excellent ambassadors for the club, with clearly the clubs best interest at heart) who else ever takes the time out to try and communicate with the fans? In days gone by I have even caught Steve Lansdown actually sitting in the Williams pre game and enjoyed good natured banter - Today I cannot remember the last time I saw SL at the Gate. Players used to be happy to throw their shirts to the crowd at the end of the game (Bradders and Jamal Campbell-Ryce for example). Sadly those days have long since gone.

Even the simple entering into the ground I cannot remember the last time I got a simple Good Afternoon / Evening. No normally there are over officious stewards pretending that they are "Ron and Ron, The Management" and then when you finally get past "The Doormen" theres a young girl sitting behind the turnstile texting / yweeting her mates on which club they are going to later.

Im sorry but like most on here Bristol City will ALWAYS be my team and I will follow through thick and thin, but, loyalty should be a "two way" thing and it would be nice to see the management and players at least showing they care, rather, than putting in another awful performance but still driving away in their £80 grand plus motors.

Performance related pay anyone???

IM PROUD TO BE A BCFC FAN AND LIKE MOST SUPPORTERS I WOULD GIVE A LOT JUST TO PLAY 10 MINUTES IN A BCFC SHIRT, UNFORTUNATELY THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN BUT I WILL CONTINUE TO GIVE 100% SUPPORT FOR AS LONG AS MY / OUR SUPPORT IS WELCOMED AND RECOGNISED.

[bristolcitysweden]

Who cares about communication. We are rock bottom wasting money for years and years

[cityloyal473]

Dave,

The club is dying, theres no spirit, no togetherness, nothing.

Poor PR, faceless people running the club.

Players don't give a toss, that much is blatantly obvious. Seeing money that WE as fans put into the club being wasted on uncommitted, overpaid dross is galling.

As a supporter i feel like i'm just a cash machine for the club, put your money in and keep your mouth shut.

The run down facilities don't help either.

If the club was a dog, they'd have put it down a long time ago.

I've totally fallen out of love with the club.

The club has a massive, massive job on its hands to correct the disconnect with the fans.

[BS15_RED]

Dave,

The club is dying, theres no spirit, no togetherness, nothing.

Poor PR, faceless people running the club.

Players don't give a toss, that much is blatantly obvious. Seeing money that WE as fans put into the club being wasted on uncommitted, overpaid dross is galling.

As a supporter i feel like i'm just a cash machine for the club, put your money in and keep your mouth shut.

The run down facilities don't help either.

If the club was a dog, they'd have put it down a long time ago.

I've totally fallen out of love with the club.

The club has a massive, massive job on its hands to correct the disconnect with the fans.

That is it in a nutshell.

[REDOXO]

I've seen this phrase crop up quite a bit recently, and as Supporter Liaison with a responsibility for bridging that gap, I clearly have to take it seriously, and I do, as does everyone who works at the club.

So can I ask those who hold that view to expand on it a little? What do you mean? How do you perceive that gap? Can you quantify it in any way? Is it a gap that exists at other clubs, or is it unique to Bristol City? If you know of a club where that gap doesn't exist, what is it that they do that we don't? What can we do to bridge that gap that we're not doing already?

I'd sincerely welcome any suggestions you might have. Constructive feedback and suggestions will be more than welcome.

Dave

David

Directors are employed to decide on strategy within any organization in conjunction with the chairman and executives.

Within a football club there are dynamics you dont see within other organizations, however leadership is paramount! Who is the leader of our football club?

Since SL and subsequently CS left there has been no discernable leadership on or off the field.

1 Liam Fontaine is not a captain. His form has suffered terribly since the appointment and there is no one else near the first 11 that could possibly take on this role (LC doesn't play enough... so who would you pick?)

2 This lack of viable leadership on the field is mirrored off it. I would bet many supporters of this club couldn't even name the chairman and all that most will know is that some how SL thought it a good idea to put his son on the borad. The directors have said nothing tangible about our position that any of us will remember and their silence has been mirrored by yours over the season so far. This adds up to a void between the fans who pay and the club who take there money with impunity, while serving up a product that frankly stinks

3 If you were a semi-skilled worker at RR or Filton what possible draw does AG have. 35 quid for garbage!! Persistant hammerings at home and an infrastructure at the club from the board to the boot room that has no idea how to stop it. I would rather go to Forrest Green and many have I understand.

4 The club apears to have taken the stance approved by the board and Chairman that Mr McInness should come in make a clean sweep and fire anyone that had any relationship with our club and our team and our fans...How can you seriously ask why people feel there is a void between the club and its supporters when we have no real clue who does what or any one left that the fans feel is empethetic with them (nearly..Murray excluded), we have employed a lot of McInness men who have no discernable attachment to our club to see us drop to the bottom of the league and the board say nothing directly themselves or through you.

The fact that after a half a season of bloody awfulness we are asking these questions probably goes to the core of the problem...We Dont Know What We are Doing!!

In conclusion!! The board is silent, poor and lacks a leader while our club hurtles backward. Our club is a shadow of what it should be in respect of having senior members of staff having an affinity with the club not just ex pro's that know McInness. Our supporters money has been stolen (yes stolen) by the club with promises of 'lets us entertain you' when nothing could be further from the truth. Rich men continue to take money from those who continue to go out of a loyalty to a club/board that has no clue how to repair the damage that they agreed should be done.

If it walks and talks like a duck it is almost certainly a duck! We are bottom of the league leaderless on the playing field in the boardroom and clueless in the management of the playing side. Many people feel the club has put itself in this ludicrous position by trusting this guy (DM) without any track record at this level and their silence and yours speaks volumes!

Hope this helps!

Reccomendations

1 SL takes temporary control as chairman

2 Manager states his strategy to get us out of this or gets fired after losing tomorrow to Posh!

3 If we are that clueless about playing matters at board level bring in a Joe Royal for example to act as advisor to the Chairman

4 Make a statement from the board that actually appreciates the hole McInness and the board have put us in....Or resign as failures!

5 GIVE US SOMETHING TO HANG ON TO....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chalky]

Derek hardly acknowledges the supporters, I appreciate he's no Gary Johnson in the charisma stakes, but maybe clapping each stand wouldn't go a miss.

All communicatons are done through twitter/rubbish website/you tube this may be the modern way but has no soul.

People don't drink in the exhibition hall as its over priced, stinks like chip fat, has no bookies and 100 Tvs and only one playing football. You can drink and meet friends bedminster for half the price.

Regardless of your opinions on the steward situation Dave, I'm certainly not one to cause trouble and attend with my girlfriend but seriously the stewarding is very poor, I've never felt so unwelcome at a football match, as if our presence there in the EE is an irritant. After all we're paying customers and appreciate some basic level of customer service. This has to be addressed. Being refered to ad a vandals didn't impress me much, I'm a supporter not a criminal.

Finally sort the speaker/tanoy out in the EE its broken and we can hardly hear the music played, I've quite enjoyed Tims Pre Match playlist just wish we could hear it.

Cheers for inviting questions and opinions

Please don't sort out the tannoy!! It used to be blaring and you couldn't hear yourself think let alone chat to your mates at half time. There should be no music played 15 mins before KO anyway to allow fans to sing.

Agree with you on the stewards though. Can't remember the last time I was shopping (a customer) and staff/security were so unfriendly/unwelcoming etc.

[City1984]

Some great points above and there are countless more but my main grip with all things bcfc and football in general is the match day day expieriance is completly dead. Your not allowed to show passion on any level any where in the stadium and that includes the ee. Over zelous stewarding and staff that cannot comunicate or treat you like a human or indeed a loyal paying customer. You ask us to get behind the team after charging us 30 quid ago but then kill any attempts of atmosphere creation with bull shit. i liked to expand a bit more but i aint so good with the words and would probably land myself in trouble if I told exactly how it is but i think you get the idea. Stop the sanitisation of football and treat us all with a bit more respect and maybe we can help this great club of ours find its soul again.After all, no fans = no club. I think you have forgotten that somewhere along the way.

[bcfcsouth]

It would be good if you could enter the game with a bit of politeness from the stewards.

Why when I put my season ticket in the machine, I just get a blank look, sometimes I feel like I'm doing too much when I say "thank you", maybe I'm too polite.

Ban all phones and mp3 players from the turnstile staff, teach them some customer service skills.

A simple, thank you sir/madam I hope you enjoy the game. Isn't hard is it, I see the same people game after game but have never heard half of them speak.

When I pass my season ticket to the checkers in the Eastend, it's not "thank you", it's a simply handed back to me to assume I can go into the ground.

[tiz]

I am someone who still has deep faith in del and the directors and to a lesser extent the players but feel the gap is the lack of information and communication coming out of the gate. I see the whole we are all in this together thrown at us the fans but seeing little evidence of it in the players. I see del going nuts. One word passion that is whats missing most . I see it in del but from hardly any of the players. I dont see enough evidence of passion from the board in terms of communication with us fans. I will get slated for this but feel the only eliments showing any passion or fight are most of the fans and del.....most of them losing faith in del. The club directors need to understand we are all in this together. Time to roll some sleeves up show some grit and passion and it has to start with the players. Most passionate thanks to us city supporters from a player was bradley orr ......playing for bkackburn

[REDOXO]

I am someone who still has deep faith in del and the directors and to a lesser extent the players but feel the gap is the lack of information and communication coming out of the gate. I see the whole we are all in this together thrown at us the fans but seeing little evidence of it in the players. I see del going nuts. One word passion that is whats missing most . I see it in del but from hardly any of the players. I dont see enough evidence of passion from the board in terms of communication with us fans. I will get slated for this but feel the only eliments showing any passion or fight are most of the fans and del.....most of them losing faith in del. The club directors need to understand we are all in this together. Time to roll some sleeves up show some grit and passion and it has to start with the players. Most passionate thanks to us city supporters from a player was bradley orr ......playing for bkackburn

Passion! Maybe.

Personally I think its frustration that he has been found wanting pretty much every week since August!

[tiz]

People above are right. Del thanking the fans is missing. Its the only thing he falls down on but its that lack of communication thing again

[Timbo7]

My own feelings of alienation can be attributed to:

1. as a shareholder - I am aggrieved at the loss of the AGM - this was made abundantly clear at each of the last two AGMs and was met with - we hold the majority vote and we can and will do what we like
2. the adoption of modern soundbite marketing - telling the customers what you want them to hear rather than sharing (albeit no more than cosmetically) the burden of caring - SUPPORTERS ARE NOT CUSTOMERS - IF THEY WERE THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN THEIR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE SOME TIME AGO
3. economy of truth regarding plans (particularly commercial and financial) for Ashton Vale - the biggest step in every supporters' lifetime - we want to feel involved and understand what's planned

Om top of this the careless contracting-out of security has the potential to be a massive own-goal - supporters are to typically to some extent self-policing in their own ground this could well be lost

Having said all of this - it should not be overlooked that much (if not all) of the current dissatisfaction stems from years of under-performance on the park. It is easy to love the players and the manager when they are confident, fighting for everything and delivering positive progress - in these circumstances much of what was wrong with the club could be overlooked. In my experience, every time our team (and probably everyone else's team) goes through a long period of failure, confidence and self-belief drain away and players seem to shirk responsibility - plainly this creates a vicious circle and seems to indicate lack of passion, caring and to some extent talent. You don't need to spend long on here to see how difficult many find it to love the players when this starts to happen.

I return to where I started - the club is in trouble and most of us would like to help if/where we can BUT instead we only ever hear:

1. next (this) season will be better - with some breaks we can challenge
2. the manager will be backed in the window
3. great things are happening behind the scenes

I for one welcomed the Chairman's heartfelt message at the end of Not the AGM - he thought it was going to be tough (as did I), it's going to get tougher BUT there will be no shirking. This is the honesty that helps maintain a bond - although it was sad to see that as soon as his words were reported, some felt it appropriate to complain that they had been misled into buying season tickets etc.

When things are not going well - the Board is between a rock and hard place - being human, I guess a fair number of us simply want reassurance (even if founded in straw) rather than facing the harsh reality BUT the longer the truth is left hidden the worse it will smell when it is exposed to the air. I think our failures on the park since September have been exactly that - all that is rotting and has been left hidden and starved of the oxygen of publicity is now there for all to see!

GIVE US A BELIEVABLE PLAN - WARTS AND ALL - AND I FOR ONE WILL BACK IT - WE ARE ONLY GOING SOUTH UNTIL WE FIND ONE

[when i was a lad]

Linking to the offers for this season and the vouchers. When the ST went up on sale last season the club said if you order a ST before 25th of May you get all these benefits including bring a friend for free. When I finally got the ST and read the letter I found out that the bring a friend offer is only available to people who ordered their ST before 2nd of May. That is a big gap which wasn't mentioned before the ST got sent to people. That was probably the best offer available as part of the package, and it was changed without telling anyone, meaning I couldn't use that benefit. That definitely doesn't help making the club and fans feel closer.

i got stung by that argued like mad with the ticket office about it but they dont seem to give a **** either

[TRL]

Openness from the Directors and manager, None of the down right lies we have been fed. For example, everyone saying we are pushing fro promotion at the start of te season (usuale hyperbole), then to be told the absolute opposite from DM at the QA session.

Less of the PR based great deals for the fans, when in truth it is a hotchpotch of money making schemes trying to scam your own fans.

Some decent communication from all levels of the club. After all fans are interested in the "Club" not just the team

At the end of the day, don't treat your captive audience with such disregard and disdain, because as you are finding now, that audience is not quite so captive as you might think.

I don't give two hoots about what is going on, on the pitch, that is all the standard ebb and flow of most teams, going from good seasons to bad seasons.

I want trust honesty and up frontedness from the club. We all prefer honesty over the the silence or smoke screens the club throws us.

[tiz]

Redoxo i understand where you are coming from but feel its the players letting him down. But that is only my opinion. Passion is what is missing. Last season i think it was worst as there was no energy .

[jfkerton]

The biggest thing that is wedging this gap is the players. When the game was called off on boxing day, the watford players came out to the away fans and started messing about, sliding on the pitch and giving the fans who had made the journey something to laugh about - building rapport with the fans in the process. The City players just stood about clapping half heartedly and some even walked up to the half way line and beyond. We fans would not mind Bristol City being bottom of the league half as much if our players built rapport with the fans. The only Players i can think of to do this is Albert and Stead who like to have a bit of a giggle in interviews, every other player is straight faced and down right boring baring no resembelance to the common fan. I think this could be rectified by the manager asking the players to play for the fans, not their pay packet. If Del was to say to the players - You're not getting paid this week lads, go out and play for the fans enjoyment, and theirs alone i can imagine only the two mentioned above and maybe skuse would agree. Get them to go out inot the community and converse with the fans. I saw Scotty Murray in cabot last night with his kids, he was happy as larry and was happy to chat with everyone who said hi. That is what we should aim for, for all of the playing squad.

3 POINTS TOMMOROW THOUGH. COME ON YOU REDS!!

[fatman]

Bcfc south you have got to the core. Make match day a good experience and maybe fans will be more forgiving to the shortcomings on the pitch. At the moment it's not a good experience from start to finish.overpaid players taking the mick, useless management unable to communicate their goals and aims, invisible board unable to explain the vision. ' I HAVE A DREAM' not a plan, not a strategy, not a business proposition....A DREAM ..... Am I the only one?