'gap Between Club And Fans As Wide As It's Ever Been'

[leader]

well its benidorm or blackburn answers on a postcard

[Br 1st ol]

With all due respect Dave, your response is not what is called for.

Passing on others views/comments on this appauling situation is no good at all.

SLansdown, K Dawe, D McCinnes have to face the fans and not behind a written statement

In fairness Arn, the response is exactly what is required at this stage. Ie no one needs a quick sound bite, or a knee jerk reaction. What is needed is a considered reaction, and that cannot be achieved in 24 hours.

Dave is right to collate the feedback, see how the comments can be categorised and grouped, to assess the importance and the priority and the implications and see if and how they can be addressed. Changing a culture is not a quick solution.

David is sincere and needs to be afforded time to get this right.

Keeping fans in the loop during this process is vital of course.

[Guest]

A clubs connection to its fans is always easier when things are going well on the pitch and probably the biggest factor in all of this disconnection is the fact that we've had 3-4 years of absolute rubbish served up on the pitch.

If you wanted to pinpoint a time I'd say we've never quite recovered from the Coppell disaster and perhaps even before that to the point when GJ left. At that point we had a very public chairman and manager. A manager who was well received in the national media and perhaps made us proud to be City fans.

Since then the club has seemingly stagnated - we've been in 3 relegation battles now, we've had 3 managers in 3 years. We've got nowhere on the stadium front (granted no fault of the club but it doesn't help the general feel around the place) and we've lost our two most vocal/public facing board members in Steve & Colin. Chuck in 3 horrible summers, a global recession and the general feel around the club is the worst I can recall in my 20 odd years of watching the club and that includes the Pulis era.

As many have stated the manager isn't particular fan friendly despite his best efforts, the board on the whole seem only to be pushed into making appearances on the website/media after the fans call for them to be and the players look like they couldn't give a toss if they win lose or draw. Again there is no connection with any of the players any more. We have no Orr's, Tinnion's or Murray's who you feel would run through brick walls for the club.

On a personal level I can't say I've feel more disillusioned with the club than I do now. I can't relate to players earning tens of thousands a week and simply not caring, I can't related to a club who got rid of most of its award winning media team when media is the most important connection between fans and the club throughout the week. I find myself lured more to Cricket in recent years - a complete (every game) membership for myself and my wife costs just £350 a season. That's less than what it costs one of us to have a season ticket at Ashton Gate. The whole organisation is a world away from AG despite them still having ground facilities not dissimilar comparison to AG. I can say with 90% certainty that this will be the last year that I hold a season ticket - I've simply fallen out of love with BCFC right now and generally I feel at times when I do drop into AG that I'm hatted by many many persons within the club from board level to club shop workers simply because I happen to be 'that wanker who runs that horrible message board'

If we lose today I see Del's position untenable and I would hope the club look at using this opportunity as a point to try and bring everyone together as we will may never recover from it.

[BCFC @ Herts]

Would it not be helpful if the club updated us on the likelyhood of the match going ahead today?

It is now past 11.00am, the last news from the club was nearly 24 hours ago "Groundstaff doing all they can to ensure Peterborough fixture goes ahead." That doesn't sound that promising to me. We don't all live in Bristol. I'm leaving my trip up from Dorset as late as possible, so a little reassurance would be good!

[Guest]

Would it not be helpful if the club updated us on the likelyhood of the match going ahead today?

It is now past 11.00am, the last news from the club was nearly 24 hours ago "Groundstaff doing all they can to ensure Peterborough fixture goes ahead." That doesn't sound that promising to me. We don't all live in Bristol. I'm leaving my trip up from Dorset as late as possible, so a little reassurance would be good!

They do, but only on twitter which obviously not everyone sees

[bristolcitysweden]

In a good relationship no one talk about communication but when it get's bad it's because "we don't talk to each other anymore". Nonsense. You just can't stand that person/lack of football anymore. In a good relationship sex life is 10 percent. In a bad relationship it's 90 percent. When a football club haven't got a clue about what football is people get frustrated. Who would care about pies, stewards or even communication if we were able to play attractive football climbing the football league.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

A clubs connection to its fans is always easier when things are going well on the pitch and probably the biggest factor in all of this disconnection is the fact that we've had 3-4 years of absolute rubbish served up on the pitch.

If you wanted to pinpoint a time I'd say we've never quite recovered from the Coppell disaster and perhaps even before that to the point when GJ left. At that point we had a very public chairman and manager. A manager who was well received in the national media and perhaps made us proud to be City fans.

Since then the club has seemingly stagnated - we've been in 3 relegation battles now, we've had 3 managers in 3 years. We've got nowhere on the stadium front (granted no fault of the club but it doesn't help the general feel around the place) and we've lost our two most vocal/public facing board members in Steve & Colin. Chuck in 3 horrible summers, a global recession and the general feel around the club is the worst I can recall in my 20 odd years of watching the club and that includes the Pulis era.

As many have stated the manager isn't particular fan friendly despite his best efforts, the board on the whole seem only to be pushed into making appearances on the website/media after the fans call for them to be and the players look like they couldn't give a toss if they win lose or draw. Again there is no connection with any of the players any more. We have no Orr's, Tinnion's or Murray's who you feel would run through brick walls for the club.

On a personal level I can't say I've feel more disillusioned with the club than I do now. I can't relate to players earning tens of thousands a week and simply not caring, I can't related to a club who got rid of most of its award winning media team when media is the most important connection between fans and the club throughout the week. I find myself lured more to Cricket in recent years - a complete (every game) membership for myself and my wife costs just £350 a season. That's less than what it costs one of us to have a season ticket at Ashton Gate. The whole organisation is a world away from AG despite them still having ground facilities not dissimilar comparison to AG. I can say with 90% certainty that this will be the last year that I hold a season ticket - I've simply fallen out of love with BCFC right now and generally I feel at times when I do drop into AG that I'm hatted by many many persons within the club from board level to club shop workers simply because I happen to be 'that ****** who runs that horrible message board'

If we lose today I see Del's position untenable and I would hope the club look at using this opportunity as a point to try and bring everyone together as we will may never recover from it.

Wow Tom. Brilliant post, very heartfelt, quite upsetting really looking at all these posts ...

How did it get this bad for everyone? Like a marriage on the rocks but both parties too proud to admit there is something wrong ....

[Mr Mosquito]

A clubs connection to its fans is always easier when things are going well on the pitch and probably the biggest factor in all of this disconnection is the fact that we've had 3-4 years of absolute rubbish served up on the pitch.

If you wanted to pinpoint a time I'd say we've never quite recovered from the Coppell disaster and perhaps even before that to the point when GJ left. At that point we had a very public chairman and manager. A manager who was well received in the national media and perhaps made us proud to be City fans.

Since then the club has seemingly stagnated - we've been in 3 relegation battles now, we've had 3 managers in 3 years. We've got nowhere on the stadium front (granted no fault of the club but it doesn't help the general feel around the place) and we've lost our two most vocal/public facing board members in Steve & Colin. Chuck in 3 horrible summers, a global recession and the general feel around the club is the worst I can recall in my 20 odd years of watching the club and that includes the Pulis era.

As many have stated the manager isn't particular fan friendly despite his best efforts, the board on the whole seem only to be pushed into making appearances on the website/media after the fans call for them to be and the players look like they couldn't give a toss if they win lose or draw. Again there is no connection with any of the players any more. We have no Orr's, Tinnion's or Murray's who you feel would run through brick walls for the club.

On a personal level I can't say I've feel more disillusioned with the club than I do now. I can't relate to players earning tens of thousands a week and simply not caring, I can't related to a club who got rid of most of its award winning media team when media is the most important connection between fans and the club throughout the week. I find myself lured more to Cricket in recent years - a complete (every game) membership for myself and my wife costs just £350 a season. That's less than what it costs one of us to have a season ticket at Ashton Gate. The whole organisation is a world away from AG despite them still having ground facilities not dissimilar comparison to AG. I can say with 90% certainty that this will be the last year that I hold a season ticket - I've simply fallen out of love with BCFC right now and generally I feel at times when I do drop into AG that I'm hatted by many many persons within the club from board level to club shop workers simply because I happen to be 'that ****** who runs that horrible message board'

If we lose today I see Del's position untenable and I would hope the club look at using this opportunity as a point to try and bring everyone together as we will may never recover from it.

You're a great lad Tomarse. For what it's worth, I appreciate you and all your behind the scenes efforts with this message board. In many ways it's only really this message board and the BCFC zider heads message board that continues to provide a real connect between the fans and the club.

[frenchred]

communication is key in all business life and unfortunately at BCFC its diabolical.

Stewarding is obviously a key topic, how bad it is only the fans know as you cannot see it and get a different perspective from the gold lined seats. Your latest blog just alienated even more fans as it was obvious those at the club blamed the fans in its entirety.

Ticketing and pricing is a shambles, no incentive when local football is postponed or the casual fan may want to attend.

Attracting the fans of the future is pathetic, nothing (or appears that way) done. I provided lots of inputs at the start of the season to t he club when 11 (ELEVEN!) junior tickets were not renewed due to the pricing - nothing done

Players, here's your biggest test, overpaid prima donnas out of touch with fans, do not care attitude. They don't even interact with the youngsters before a game, get the majority out and get in some good young ones and train them not only to play (although not sure if this is being done) but to be the face of the club

A manager just wandering through the season, here we are at Xmas and he still doesn't know his best team/formation, completely out of his depth

A faceless chairman that most wouldn't know if we queued alongside him in the superstore!

[wayne allisons tongues]

Use to have a season ticket and travel from Manchester to watch. Son plays footy Saturday mornings and potd prices are now ridiculous, not everyone can pay in advance and even in the atyeo when phase 1 prices are released there's no discount why?

Price of fuel now is putting me off traveling to home games and when you go to the game like Boxing Day and can't find a single piece of info anywhere about refunds apart from speak to supporter services -who are they.

Prices in ground for food is now extortionate sausage roll bag if sweets and a coke and water was £9.20 Wednesday, don't want to pay it but traveling on the motorway no option, it's now cheaper to buy in the services than at the ground.

[Aizoon]

Oh, and I just wanted to add that I have had stewards greeting me and saying 'enjoy the game' and suchlike . . . AT AWAY GROUNDS ..... !

Well said! A friend of mine is a steward at the Mem and she reckons the important thing is to establish friendly relations with the fans BEFORE the trouble starts. Mind you, she works for the Gas, not for Rent-a-thug...

[NVMal]

The players don't care, and are paid too much. It costs a lot to watch City, and the performances do not justify the expense. We never hear from our chairman. McInnes says the same things after every game and never seems to be as angry as the fans are. We can't even follow the club properly on the official website anymore without subscribing to BCFC Player or whatever it's called, which is more expense!

[charisma_cider]

Exactly the response we have come to expect, why post and then say your to busy to reply?

Unfortunately Dave I have no time for you, due to an east end situation earlier in the year, where you informed me the ee had not been sold out all year, despite the ticket office on two occasions telling me it was...,, but then again the club is behind the ee right?

Completely contradicting the above kind off, my only issue is the passion from the players, that's what will get me back down the gate, and unfortunately don't think you can help on that one!!

Ps, have you ever thought about visiting the lions, bs3 or robins before, during and after a game? A lot of your questions would be answered....

Give the bloke a break, it's matchday and he is going to have loads to do today. He's made the first step in trying to lift this gloom that's hung over the club since the final weeks of the GJ era.

The disconnect between the fans and the club? The story for me is as follows:

Our expectations, goals and vision became fuzzy after we over achieved in our first season of Championship football. so on the back of a playoff final, the vision of potentially repeating or improving on that was unrealistic considering the resources we had. The reality was, lower-mid table, mid-table would be more than an achievement for a club with our resources, so to compensate for this, we've been treated to plastic corporate spin to make out things are better than they are. The one that particularly summed up everything that's wrong with the club at the moment is "Big Names & Big Games" Big Names? No wonder we've got no connection with the majority of the players. We have nothing in common with them.

The only reason people are bringing up overpaid is to try and justify this disconnect. I don't think it's about money, I think it's a feeling of "we're better than you" which is throughout the club atm. We're better than you because we can use our clever marketing to outsmart you in handing over your money, and we're footballing big names, far superior to the likes of you, you and you.

In the GJ era a player wasn't signed unless he agreed with GJ's way of thinking, which was in sync with what the fans wanted, and the overall vision of the chairman so immediately, you felt that this player was fighting for the manager, who seemed like he was fighting for us, to bring that vision to the chairman. Notice the syncronisation with all the parties working together? And how everyone was open with what that goal and vision was? I remember when seemingly "big name" targets were publically dismissed as they didn't fit in with that ethos at this club. It made me feel proud that not just anyone can walk into our club, you've got to be on the same page as us.

To fix this, this can't be a PR thing. The trust there is gone. The corporate/marketing/politics BS needs to die, this has to be men and women dealing with men and women as people now, face to face honesty. If this is going to be fixed Dave L, and fixed properly, it's going to be taking a lot of people in the club be it players or board out of their comfort zone and coming together with the fans head on. We're not animals, we don't need to be behind a screen to be talked to, or specially invited to a Q&A. We're not going to mob a club official should he step foot in BS3. Perhaps then everyone will understand a little more about the other.

[GrahamC]

Brilliant but very sad post, Tom.

[RedM]

I just want to echo many of the comments in this thread, so many points getting repeated that proves there must be major concerns.

i also want to add how thoroughly depressed i feel when reading all this. My club is dying.

[Aizoon]

The players don't care, and are paid too much.It costs a lot to watch City, and the performances do not justify the expense.We never hear from our chairman.McInnes says the same things after every game and never seems to be as angry as the fans are.We can't even follow the club properly on the official website anymore without subscribing to BCFC Player or whatever it's called, which is more expense!

Trust me, BCFC Player is total carp. I wonder if anyone at the club is aware of how unreliable and behind the play it is. Probably not, I fear

[CyderInACan]

For anybody yet to read it, "A message from our Chairman, Mr. Keith Dawe" on p57 of the current edition of The BOUNTYHUNTER is about as

clear a communication we have had from our board ever since SL pulled the ladder up and CS left to persue other projects.

Let no-one in charge at AG be in any doubt that we love what is in actual fact OUR club. It's a crying shame it just doesn't feel like it any more.

[Lordofthebling]

The players are petrified of the supporters for some reason and don't properly acknowledge us at the end of games. I remember on a couple of occassions Gary Johnson sent injured players into the away end to sit with supporters for games. Now we're lucky if two senior players can be arsed to walk over and clap the support.

God I wish this happened today. Anyone NOT in the match day squad should sit with the supporters on at least one occasion to see it from the other side of the fence.

I'd also extend this invitation to members of the board to spend a game a season in each stand not just in the safe perimeter of the hospitality suite or whatever it's called. And that includes you DaveL maybe you could communicate the views of the supporters better if you spent some time with, errr, the supporters?

[Lordofthebling]

Without sounding bad Dave, I know you are busy

probably helping out with the fans park, community trust thing; or mascots, the half time games etc etc...

Whilst this is all valuable and worthwhile work, I would suggest the Supporters Liaison Officer (or one of your colleagues) gets out there, introduces themselves and spends time in the bars, has a can of natch outside the newsagent by the park, talks to fans queuing up for tickets. Networking...

Not a bad job if you ask me. That's where the supporters are that need liaising with. Not all on otib.

We don't need entertainment at half time, just someone who is one of us and listens.

Oh and get Tom on the pitch at half time for a round of applause!!!

[Guest]

I'm still reading. Excellent thread.

I'm going to be really busy at work today, but I will find time to talk this through with colleagues. I will aim to sit down tomorrow and give a detailed and considered response to the many points that are being raised.

Hopefully that will be on the back of 3 points today.

We all hope it will be on "the back of 3pts today" and we blow bro right out of the water; the points made by many will still be relevant whatever the result, but dare I say your responses could well be influenced by that result.

Some of the posts show a truly alarming attitude by our club towards its own fans and for sure is the tip of a very large iceburg that could easily sink us down a lot lower than we are at present.

Things need to change and quickly.

I think we need some new news not old retoric and a significant move towards its fans by our club.

[gater2]

The Supporter Liaison Officer position has been introduced by UEFA primarily, seemingly, for leagues such as England where clubs have awful track records in recent years of involving fans in the club. While the role is to be welcomed, it is clearly something which will only serve to patch up the deeper problem at the heart of club-fan relations.

The biggest problem in English football is that it exists primarily for the owners and not us the fans. When clubs were formed in the 19th century they were formed as companies which technically could be bought or sold, and also money made from them. In Germany, this was not the case as regulation starts from the premise that clubs have to belong to the main stakeholders, the supporters: all clubs need to have at least 50+1% of the votes in supporters hands. This means clubs can't make decisions for the benefit of individuals over the fans: e.g. selling the ground, changing the colour of the kit (Cardiff), or moving the whole club (Wimbledon).

Supporter Liaison Officers will help improve the relationship between clubs and fans, but ultimately it won't do much. The best clubs are already liaising with their fans. For the worst clubs with absentee owners, there's nothing to say that clubs need to actually listen and take on board what the SLOs actually say. Can you imagine the Glazers taking the Man Utd SLO seriously??

Until football admits that we, the supporters, are the most important stakeholders in the game, nothing will change and we'll be having exactly this debate in 20 years. I can guarantee you this debate is not going on in the same way in any German clubs' message boards. that's because the supporters ultimately call the shots. And guess what, there has never been an insolvent club in Germany and you can get into Bundesliga games from around £10.

What we need in England is supporter representation on club boards with voting rights. However, there is far too much self-interest in the game to allow this to happen. Unless it does we'll continue to pay out of our noses for tickets, moan about bad atmospheres and poor relations with clubs and our clubs will continue to lose millions of pounds a year.

[Club and Country]

Above poster is right

When will club realise that people who use the forum/twitter etc, represents a small amount off our support?

Dave l, get down the pub and off licence by the park. That's we're you will find some views and opinions

[Club and Country]

Double post

[BrizzleRed]

First post of mine for ages, but whilst I agree with a lot of the points on here (re: food, fan interaction etc) I feel that there's a bigger issue and that is leadership and vision.

Even when things weren't rosy on the pitch, with Steve L's regular posts and fan interaction and Gary's interviews and exposure to his strategy (remember the personal targets stuff he did for each player?) we all understood that at least there was a plan and that there was a vision of sorts to believe in. Notably it was only when Gary failed to have a plan B that all things started to go sour.

Now it seems rudderless and there's ominous silence when strong leadership is most needed. I can't speak for everyone, but especially when things aren't going well on pitch, I need to have some justified faith that there is a plan or some safeguards to sort out the issues and move forwards. If there isn't, what is the point in putting up with the short term pain of what we see on the pitch?

We hear lots about vague mentions through informal channels about changes behind the scenes. What exactly has changed? How does this fit into a larger strategy? What is this strategy? What are the timelines for each milestone? How is it measured? All basic stuff that should be shared with the punters if you expect us to fund the ride.

What is the board prepared to do (and at what point) about our league position? What is Derek's overall plan? Has he ever had one? When he was interviewed as a promising young manager he must have shared some kind of vision with the board to inspire them enough to choose him. What was this? Because quite frankly right now I've no confidence that he knows what he's doing.

To be a good leader you need to have a clear vision, communicate that effectively and have a contingency in case things don't go well. That inspires confidence and results usually follow assuming the vision is sound and the person carrying out the vision is at least competent. Absolutely no evidence of this exists at the moment from either the board or Derek. And as such I can have no faith that we can turn this around in either the short term or more worryingly the longer term.

I've literally no vision to "buy into" and so therefore why would you expect me to keep on paying a relatively large amount of money to pay for it? Like it or not, you have to convince us paying punters to buy into whatever you're selling. Have a plan and communicate it. At least that way you'll appear part way competent. Having a board that are largely anonymous and a manager who doesn't appear to have a clue and who can't settle on a team, formation or tangible plan is not inspiring.

We've heard nothing but silence about the current position, let alone the bigger 'plan' and that's frankly arrogant or incompetent. If things are going badly for as long as they have then the board are answerable and should be doing everything in their powers to calm the fans and give them confidence that things are under control and issues are being addressed.

This is nothing about being short term glory-fan-boy who will only turn up if you can guarantee a win every match. This is about having faith in the leadership and ultimately watching something I can believe in. At present I can't. And judging from the amount of times I've seen "lost faith" written on otib recently I suspect I'm not alone.

To me this is basic schoolboy stuff and the fact that neither the board nor Derek seem to grasp this is nothing short of criminal. And to me, this must be sorted out before the other important hygiene stuff such as player media behaviour, catering, bookies, flags or stewarding are addressed.

Hope this helps, but given the current board/management I doubt anything will change since they are responsible for the above.

Edit: note that the teams that have 'over performed' in the last few years - Swansea (passing football) and Blackpool (attack!) had a gameplan that was communicated and clear. Fans could buy into that and were even willing to be patient when the results took a little while to come to fruition. I've literally no idea what strategy our current board/manager has - it certainly isn't shoring up the defence. It isn't all out attack. It isn't youth. It isn't getting experienced Championship players in. It isn't utilising lower league talent. It isn't anything!

Absolutely brilliant post and I can relate to every single part of this

As many have said, we really are a rudderless ship and apparently racing towards the waterfall that is League 1 and to us fans, it appears all at this club are standing around and looking at each other and just waiting for the inevitable drop to come!

I have never seen this club with such a lack of direction at all levels, right from the Chairman and board, right down to non-existent 'captaincy' on the field. The most depressing thing is, with our lack of leadership being so obvious to all the unfortunate fans who regularly follow this club, it's no surprise we are now propping up the rest of the teams in the Championship and I for one have lost any hope of us pulling out of it. The lack of any crumb of comfort about a plan for this club means us fans just don't have anything to hang our hope on. I think this is why the atmosphere is so dire at the Gate at moment ......... the fans just don't believe anymore and are just expecting the inevitable defeat, which the gutless players on the pitch are duly providing to the home fans, while showing precious little passion or fight for the cause

I think my belief finally evaporated when the glaring deficiencies in central defence and midfield that the fans have been aware of and deeply concerned about for years have been largely ignored. We've again chosen the sticking plaster route of bringing in players like McManus who doesn't look any better than what we already have. Neil Danns is quality, but only a short term addition, which is another of the problems as far as I'm concerned. We are making short term loans instead of building for the future and I'm now beginning to suspect the club is already resigned to the drop and are making sure they don't take on more players with Championship level contracts that will have to be financed at League 1 level. There is some financial sense if this is the case, but does highlight a dangerous lack of ambition within this club, which I fear has finally been realised by the majority of fans.

I think we fans have been admirably restrained in showing the current crop of players how we feel about how they are performing for our beloved club, but I fear this won't last much longer. The leaders at BCFC need to act fast and at least give us some reason to start believing again, because I sure as hell can't find any!!!

[Lordofthebling]

Above poster is right

When will club realise that people who use the forum/twitter etc, represents a small amount off our support?

Dave l, get down the pub and off licence by the park. That's we're you will find some views and opinions

It's a sad state when people are asking advice from a very small representative of the fan base.

My old man has been a supporter for 40 odd years, he wants his say - but do you think he uses twitter or otib?

He struggles getting into the ground every week with their machines!

Get out and meet the fans. Don't hide behind websites, blogs, twitter and emails.

[Fiale]

With all due respect Dave, your response is not what is called for.

Passing on others views/comments on this appauling situation is no good at all.

SLansdown, K Dawe, D McCinnes have to face the fans and not behind a written statement

Well that's just nitpicking. It's a match day so of course he is going to be busy - we ask for people to be honest and when they are we say "not good enough". Dave will read the thread, talk to various people at the club about it and views opinions, compile a outline of a plan and come back to us with a post with some feedback - it's a good start.

For me the club is still suffering from the loss of Gary Johnson and our successful promotions to the Championship (including a brush with the Premiership). The reason that a mostly league 1 side was able to perform so well is that you felt each and every player would die for the club. They put their heads, feet and bodies into tackles and blocks - also looked to get back, no situation lost or unrecoverable - now a lot of our players looked dis-interested, stand and watch as a runner darts towards goal - not even try as the ball whizzes towards our net - it's a totally different team/player mentality and to be honest it stinks of indifference on their behalf.

McInnes will never be a Gary Johnson in regards to his personality - and we are still awaiting to see if he can perform as a manager - but his changing of formations and players (when the club need to keep things simple and grind out a result) does not help. Some say we need to use squad rotations etc - but we are not playing games in the league, 2 cups, and europe at the same time - we should have a best 11 and they should be playing week in/week out unless out of form when the subs get their chance to shine and claim a place - that does not seem to exists at the club.

Players and the club need to get out and about more. Is there any reason why players can not have in their contracts that one night (or day) a month they attend a meet the community event (a few hours a month is not a lot to ask) with 20+ odd players that's over 200 events in schools etc each year, turn up for school Sports lesson - talk and participate with the youngsters - whats it like to be at City, a professional footballer etc... and promote the club (hand out some freebies pens etc (cheap marketing).

Attend the Sunday Downs and 5 aside leagues.competitions. Give some unsold tickets to schools, work places (NHS/Police/Ambulance/community carers), clubs (scouts/cadets) a week before the match (we know you can give 2-3000 tickets for most games - get these people down the club (it looses no revenue for you and will hopefully snare at least a few into the BCFC community - worst case scenario you make a few thousand £ on selling drinks/food). And do not do this every blue moon, but week in, week out - we have a population of 250,000 - 300,000 we should be able to get more people down the gate.

As to some fans, I remember not long ago they complained about the board, Colin and Steve always giving interviews etc - saying that they should take a back seat, that the Manager should be the face of the club etc.... and now we have people saying they want to see the board more - so it seems a no win situation (I suspect born out of our league position and last 3 years worth of dire football). John did a good interview only just over a month ago that was well rec'd by those that saw it (judging by comments on here though a lot of people missed it) - which leads to

Having to actively look for information as opposed to it being fed to us. Not everyone knows how to use twitter and the clubs website is.... well less said the better. So how about making a BCFC card to hand out at matches (and player meet community events) on what twitter is and how to set up a twitter a/c or get player / onto the website - mobile phone text alerts - link the videos and interviews so more people can see them.

The biggest thing is of course success - if we start winning, if Ashston Vale starts to be built and we feel a surge in forward momentum again a lot of this frustration from fans/players and club will no doubt lessen - Fans are not customers, the stadium would be empty if they were as customers do not tolerate shoddy service/results/items. They require a different sort of hospitality, clean, honest, simple and above all acknowledgment - waking up, leaving the girlfriend/wife/kids, getting to the gate to getting cold/wet/bored watching a great/ok/awful match week in, week out regardless for years - Sporting clubs are lucky to have this type of supporter, as outside of Apple I can think of nowhere where people would put up with the sort of experience many get.

Sorry for the ramble..........

Fiale

[Aizoon]

There's no real contradiction between wanting the manager to be the voice of the club and wanting to hear more from the board and the executives.

The fact is that we have a manager who seems incapable of communicating with the supporters and seems intent on keeping himself to himself. That's OK in itself, but we need someone at the club to communicate - in BOTH directions!

[Aizoon]

Sporting clubs are lucky to have this type of supporter, as outside of Apple I can think of nowhere where people would put up with the sort of experience many get.

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Pure class, sir. I used First Bus as an example of carp customer service, but Apple is even better.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

First post. Read this board for years. Feel inspired to post (as do many others, clearly).

Supported City since I was 5 (1974) and remain the only football club I care about (along with Bristol FC (as the rugby club should be known) and Gloucestershire CCC).

Have lived away from Bristol for 10 years and confess to a) not going to games anymore and b) being disenchanted with football in general.

Whats wrong? Most things by the sound of it and given my lack of proximity, don't feel qualified to comment on the specific points raised by many on this thread.

However, in a broader sense (and City seem to be an exaggerated version of this at the moment), I feel the problem is (and this maybe ludicrously romantic, but hey ho) the change from football clubs being run as the centre point of their communities, to being run as businesses. The irony here, given the losses incurred, is football clubs make banks look like doyens of caution and far sighted management. I.e. not only has the essence of what a 'club' is been lost, they're also poorly run in their new guise as businesses.

As a result, 'supporters' have become 'customers' and whereas in (true) business, there's probably (rightly or wrongly) an acceptance that as a customer you're being squeezed for profit via cunning marketing and so on, that's not how people feel about football clubs (or at least supporters of City, Arbroath, Stockport et al, where clearly you're not it in for the glory of Champions' League finals etc). Therefore spin and soundbites are never going to be received well and resentment of high ticket prices, poor value food/drink etc and players apparently not caring, despite earning (earning in the sense of being paid, not in the sense of receiving a sensible return for their efforts) ludicrous amounts can't be a surprise. As has been highlighted by many other posters, this will always be worse when things are going badly on the pitch, but I remember walking home unhappy, but content, many a time (very many a time give the unholy trinity in question) after watching one of my teams lose, but give everything.

What's the solution? Difficult, but I think the only option is to be radical. There are increasing numbers of homogenous, mid ranking clubs in bland new stadiums with marketing departments obsessing about how much more they can squeeze from 'customers', in order to continue to afford to pay amounts of money to players that they simply don't need/deserve ("it's a short career"; not that many jobs for life for anyone these days - adapt, spend afternoon's doing something marginally more worthwhile than XBoxing or whatever).

I hanker after standing on cold terraces, drinking weak tea (admittedly in a state of alcohol induced disrepair) at Springfield Park etc, watching Dave Smith or whoever giving their all. Romantic, probably, but feeling that everyone cares about a collective ideal, can go along way towards creating something that isn't reliant purely on results as a definition of success.

Just watched a short piece on Sky Sports about Queen's Park. One of the biggest (the biggest?) clubs in the world in their hey day (admittedly the 19th Century) and influenced the game hugely (allegedly at least) inventing cross bars, half time and free kicks! Now languishing in Scottish League 3, normally watched by just a few hundred. But... have stayed true to their ideals, remain strictly amateur, see themselves as developing players who will go on to other things and 'play the game for the game's sake'. I'm not suggesting City turn amateur and attendances of 372 are what we're after, just that there are others ways of doing things and potentially more honest and honourable ways - passion to serve sounds trite, but it would make a welcome change from the 'take whatever we can' approach that seems prevalent (admittedly in society, not just football).

Reconnecting with supporters doesn't need a marketing campaign, it requires a change of purpose, redefining what BCFC is here for (maybe just going back to what it was here for). There's a huge opportunity to be different and becoming something that is central to the community and not reliant on one man's largesse, but that may require the owner/management and supporters to take a view of success that's quite different to how (most of) the rest of football/the media define it currently (as per the Queen's Park example, it's not impossible to be different - and, I suspect, feel quite good about it).

Apologies if overly romantic, but I don't believe for a minute that football is about hard headed business acumen, rather it's about blood, sweat and tears for the collective cause and that deep down there's a core part of humanity that's about giving - whether that be support or effort on the field - for a cause that fires the heart.

[Olé]

Every example of the distance between fans and the club comes down to one thing, and one thing alone - leadership.

There is a lack of leadership in the players on the pitch for the supporters to identify with. There is a lack of leadership of the team and its selection, tactics and discipline week to week (and I'm a Del supporter - but we're just not punishing bad performances or rewarding good ones), and there is a lack of leadership top down in the club to articulate a single vision and ambition and means of executing that, for EVERYONE (players, employees, fans) to buy into and be jointly committed to, and for supporters to identify their role within.

A good business has a single leader who sets the overall strategy and vision of the organisation and helps people at every level achieve that. Arguably we got close to that with Lansdown and Johnson. Right now we have total disconnect, at times we have a "vision" from the marketing department in the guise of a call to action to fans, silence from the club leaders themselves about what strategy this might relate to, and then an increasing number of well paid players floating about on the pitch apparently with no serious objective to achieve.

This is without even speaking about the stadium bid, and how that fits into things (and even if you run that through a separate business entity, it should still fall out from an overall strategy of the club, otherwise why bother). It's this leadership to reenforce a single unifying strategy, explain how difficult decisions (ie staff cuts and changes) fit into that plan, and keep everyone focused on the goal, which is totally missing and why supporters have fallen out of love with the club. Supporters are "followers" but those at BCFC have no leader.

As an aside, it's sad to hear that Tom feels disliked by many at the club for running this forum, but that again would easily be remedied by leadership as it was in the days when Lansdown and Johnson legitimised the forum and everyone else at the club fell in line with that. Are we or are we not a faceless organisation, who's going to take on the mantle of inspiring and encouraging all inside and outside the club - it can be chairman, it can be owner, it can be manager, it doesn't really matter, it just a leader where currently there's none.