Mrs Thatcher Dead

[NickJ]

As I Said he lives on Chelsea Road its his local.

Does he make a habit of sitting outside his local "minding his own"?

[NOTR]

Does he make a habit of sitting outside his local "minding his own"?

WTF

[NickJ]

WTF

I'm just trying to establish if Lifelong's son, what with all that charity work and social conscience, was there celebrating the death of a human being, or just got unlucky.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I agree about Gormless Brown, I am not making a political point, more a humanitarian.

Ummmm humanitarian, people who weren't even born having parties and dancing on the grave of somebody who has died, how does that come under a humanitarian banner? and the same people would probably get on their high horse about the North Korean or Syrian leader being taken out/executed, the problem is most of these people don't know what they stand for but take any opportunity to take to the streets and burn and loot other peoples property because they know there will always be people like you who will defend them as if it is their democratic right and not a criminal act.

PS:- You mentioned about 'is this the sort of country' blah blah, when complaining about the police, perhaps these people would like to act in this way in the countries that they claim to support and collect charity money for and see how many are returned home in body bags.

[uncle bad touch]

I'm just trying to establish if Super's son, what with all that charity work and social conscience, was there celebrating the death of a human being, or just got unlucky.

Thatcher was no human being.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Thatcher was no human being.

and nor is an IRA supporter.

[redfieldred]

The amount of argument in this post proves what a lucky politician Thatcher was. She got what she wanted. Huge tax cuts for the ultra-rich (i.e her and Dennis - who inherited a huge fortune - hard work that being born and getting married !) and the dividing and conquering of the working classes as a political force for greater equality. She was aided all the way by easy enemies who played into her hands - The Junta, Scargill, The USSR, Foot and Kinnock. She had the luck of the devil - I wonder why?

[uncle bad touch]

and nor is an IRA supporter.

And nor is a lowlife like you who praises a women who supported Apartheid, propped up genocidal dictators, and murdered a ship full of innocent children.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

And nor is a lowlife like you who praises a women who supported Apartheid, propped up genocidal dictators, and murdered a ship full of innocent children.

Well I don't think I have actually praised her, my views on Thatcher are balanced the bad was very bad but in amongst it there was much needed good after the pathetic Wilson, Heath, Callaghan governments who allowed the unions to walk all over them and hold the country to ransom. My problem is people holding celebrations it is pathetic and another embarrassment to our country.

Your anger should be turned on New Labour who conned socialist like yourself and then shat all over you and not only continued Thacterism but openly praised it as they tweaked it to suit their particular purposes, your last sentence looks like a condemnation of the US of A and Bliars unblinkered poodle like support of a country who still practice apartheid in much of their own country, continue to prop up genocidal dictators and earlier this week killed innocent women and children. new labour were a government who passed a record amount of laws through parliament and how many of them repealed Thatcher's anti union laws?, but they managed to take us into 1 highly illegal war and another unwinnable war and assist in bankrupting the world, ah but that's socialists for you.

[pongo88]

I'm not going to argue with you on the unions, as I've said elsewhere they need to accept their share of the blame for what happened both in the 70s and the 80s. The government reaction is another thing, but I guess we'll never know where a different path would have led

On the inflation of energy bills point, I don't understand the point you're making. Are you saying that energy bills have escalated below inflation? Or is that what they'd have been in a publicly owned utility regime? I'm not being arsey and I'm probably just being dense but I don't see what that proves. It certainly doesn't prove that we're getting a better deal now or indeed that we're getting a worse deal

The point I was trying to make about energy bills is today’s increases can’t all be blamed on privatisation. If nothing at all had changed and you paid £1,000 for gas in 1986, you would be paying £2,550 today, due to inflation (i.e. a 255% increase)

I don’t know what the actual increase is, but whatever it is, a large chunk is due to this inflation, plus increased world prices and drastically reduced North Sea production since the 80s.

The big question, which is impossible to answer, is, “what difference has privatisation made to prices” The pros for privatisation are competition between suppliers and greater efficiency compared to the old nationalised industries. The cons are the private companies pay their profits to their shareholders instead of the government and lack of storage capacity due to no longer term strategy.

[lifelong]

Ummmm humanitarian, people who weren't even born having parties and dancing on the grave of somebody who has died, how does that come under a humanitarian banner? and the same people would probably get on their high horse about the North Korean or Syrian leader being taken out/executed, the problem is most of these people don't know what they stand for but take any opportunity to take to the streets and burn and loot other peoples property because they know there will always be people like you who will defend them as if it is their democratic right and not a criminal act.

PS:- You mentioned about 'is this the sort of country' blah blah, when complaining about the police, perhaps these people would like to act in this way in the countries that they claim to support and collect charity money for and see how many are returned home in body bags.

Didn`t realise Guide dogs for the blind and Bernados were such vicious organisations.

i wasn`t speaking on behalf of the young when I said humanitarian just myself.

As far as North Korea and Syria are concerned send in the SAS and assassinate the pair of them, along with Mugabe, George W

and yes Maggie.

You really are something else by the way.

[Barrs Court Red]

And nor is a lowlife like you who praises a women who supported Apartheid, propped up genocidal dictators, and murdered a ship full of innocent children.

Ah there's that charming lefty response to everything, claim the moral high ground and thrn csll people names.

[JOSH17]

Which in many cases was us, for nationalised industries.

There was no doubt the mood of the country in '79 was for change. What it got was a reactionary government that set about it seemingly with glee. Union leaders sending their troops over the top for one last push, a state determined to crush them. You can guess who took the kicking.

Her legacy to me is summed up by this thread, and so many others like it. Some 30 years after she left power, the lovefest from some, and the wounds from others are still there to see. Still raw, so much passion still generated, after all this time.

Is that a healthy legacy?

No.

[Whoops]

Just seen the video of the wonderful next generation attacking the police in Bristol, virtually all of whom were not even born when Thatcher was in power, what are they protesting about FFS?, most of them have never had a job, never want a job or have any intention of getting a ******* job, as long as the state carries on sponsoring their alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, food and other necessities of life such as tattoos and piercings. The great unwashed FFS, Britain is really in safe hands, for those opposed to immigration, let's sort out our own house first.

Out of all the comments in this enjoyable to read thread, this one is completely and utterly spot on.

Big thumbs up sir, I thought I was the only one!

[marshy]

Which in many cases was us, for nationalised industries.

There was no doubt the mood of the country in '79 was for change. What it got was a reactionary government that set about it seemingly with glee. Union leaders sending their troops over the top for one last push, a state determined to crush them. You can guess who took the kicking.

Her legacy to me is summed up by this thread, and so many others like it. Some 30 years after she left power, the lovefest from some, and the wounds from others are still there to see. Still raw, so much passion still generated, after all this time.

Is that a healthy legacy?

When asked what was her greatest legacy she replied....''New Labour''. And she wasn't joking. You can draw your own conclusions as to the momentous changes she brought about in this country.

[Eco]

Out of all the comments in this enjoyable to read thread, this one is completely and utterly spot on.

Big thumbs up sir, I thought I was the only one!

EMB, of course, knows each of them personally, how else could he be aware of their age, job status etc ?

[cityexile]

_{Well, that was her view of course.}

_{It is difficult from this distance unless you were there, to explain the divisions she caused. She dispised the previous Tory 'one nation' approach, They pretty much got wiped out from urban areas and Scotland - indeed, I would say she put the very union at risk, as the scots looked at it and for many of them started asking themselves for the first time, if a UK government can be so detatched from our hopes and aspirations, are we better on our own?}

_{For some months, collections in Whiteladies, Park street for striking miners just over the bridge. Not that far from home. Supporting the boys in blue, right or wrong.}

_{I see no reason to gloat on the passing of an old lady. Frankly, if there was a minutes silence for her at a football game however, I would turn my back.}

_{As ever, they go over the top, but just see some of the emotion, and vitriol, coming through on the Liverpool forums for instance.}

_{http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,44629.0.html}

_{A hugely divisive leader. There are always some in any society throughout history, and we see them here, who stick up for 'strong leaders'. Give me modest ones any day of the week.}

[Mr Mosquito]

Well I don't think I have actually praised her, my views on Thatcher are balanced the bad was very bad but in amongst it there was much needed good after the pathetic Wilson, Heath, Callaghan governments who allowed the unions to walk all over them and hold the country to ransom. My problem is people holding celebrations it is pathetic and another embarrassment to our country.

Your anger should be turned on New Labour who conned socialist like yourself and then shat all over you and not only continued Thacterism but openly praised it as they tweaked it to suit their particular purposes, your last sentence looks like a condemnation of the US of A and Bliars unblinkered poodle like support of a country who still practice apartheid in much of their own country, continue to prop up genocidal dictators and earlier this week killed innocent women and children. new labour were a government who passed a record amount of laws through parliament and how many of them repealed Thatcher's anti union laws?, but they managed to take us into 1 highly illegal war and another unwinnable war and assist in bankrupting the world, ah but that's socialists for you.

Indeed, New Labour had 13 years in Government to re-open the coal pits and/or bring prosperity to the former mine working areas. New Labour did little or nothing. The truth about Labour is in the fact that prior to the 1984 miners' strike they closed more coal pits than the Tories had. Tony Blair especially idolized the idea of Thatcherism so that he could feather his own nest from the public purse and make mega bucks from the property market.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

EMB, of course, knows each of them personally, how else could he be aware of their age, job status etc ?

Just had a good look at the photos, videos etc. to have lived through the Thatcher years and to have been affected by it, you need to be into your 50's now (time flies) didn't see many if any of them in any of the news clips and as for job status, I admit just an educated guess, but come on be honest would you employ any of them?.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Didn`t realise Guide dogs for the blind and Bernados were such vicious organisations.

i wasn`t speaking on behalf of the young when I said humanitarian just myself.

As far as North Korea and Syria are concerned send in the SAS and assassinate the pair of them, along with Mugabe, George W

and yes Maggie.

You really are something else by the way.

Thank you and so are you somewhat confusingly.

[Mr Mosquito]

My salient views on Thatcher would be:

The way she humiliated the miners by sending in Gestapo Police against them was treasonous, then she had to repay those corrupt Police by covering up the Hillsborough disaster. On the plus side, I really liked the way she stood up to Argentina. With the help of Chile we could have taken Argentina and given them a taste of what it's like to be subjugated by an enemy alien foreign power.

Any damage that Thatcher may have done to the country simply pales into insignificance in comparison to the what Blair and Brown did. Tony Blair is now masquerading as a 'Middle Eastern peace envoy' and helping to start wars and strife throughout the Middle East. You just couldn't make it up.

[cityexile]

... I really liked the way she stood up to Argentina...

Did not take the new Argentinian pope long however to call in a favour from his boss...

[Mr Mosquito]

Did not take the new Argentinian pope long however to call in a favour from his boss...

Clever. Well, Maggie Thatcher has been about to croak for a long time now. I'm just surprised she's getting a state funeral where she'll be carried on a gun carriage - I thought that was only for people that had served in the military ????!!!! Did Maggie Thatcher serve in our Armed Forces?

[screech]

Personally I don't remember too much about the Thatcher years because I wasn't old enough to know better, but, even if you hated the woman as much as some do, dancing in the street and holding parties is just plain wrong. The people who are doing this are pretty sick in the head.

[Eco]

Should she get a minutes silence on Saturday as Whelan and Madjeski want ?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

My salient views on Thatcher would be:

The way she humiliated the miners by sending in Gestapo Police against them was treasonous, then she had to repay those corrupt Police by covering up the Hillsborough disaster. On the plus side, I really liked the way she stood up to Argentina. With the help of Chile we could have taken Argentina and given them a taste of what it's like to be subjugated by an enemy alien foreign power.

Any damage that Thatcher may have done to the country simply pales into insignificance in comparison to the what Blair and Brown did. Tony Blair is now masquerading as a 'Middle Eastern peace envoy' and helping to start wars and strife throughout the Middle East. You just couldn't make it up.

Do you know what RG I pretty much agree with everything that you say in this post, the miners is the only part I disagree with, not so much the police bit because that bit is true, on the other hand could you imagine the outcry had she used the military and not the police to control the miners?, be honest it was as close to civil war as you can come, But the miners pretty much had it coming they had and got away with thuggery to not only to get their own way but were being used as the military wing of the trade union movement in any dispute and had already humiliated 3 prime ministers and had held the country to ransom, she no doubt considered them to be enemies of the state and they were not going to humiliate her and the majority of the country was behind her, whatever anybody says.

Your analogy of Blair is spot on.

[Red-Robbo]

Just to be pedantic I think you'll find that Sir Robert Walpole was the longest serving British P.M. Besides I don't think that Derek Hatton, aka Lord Liverpool, ever made it to P.M., thank God ! Thatcher was certainly the longest serving in the 20th century and did a great job dragging this country out of the doldrums, from being the 'sick man of Europe' into a dynamic modern economy in which many hundreds of thousands of immigrants aspire to participate. If the Unions and the likes of Scargill had won we would certainly have been in a bigger mess, stuck with loss making, taxpayer supported industry and outmoded working practices.

Well, it's arguable. Walpole is listed as the first PM in many reference books, but he never actually used the title wheras Lord Liverpool (Robert Jenkinson not Degsy) did during his 1812-1827 administration. It would be better to think of Walpole as a politician who acted in a way slightly similar to modern PMs, although the role didn't really come into existence until Pitt the Younger.

Re: your other points. I'd argue that Britain became the "sick man of Europe" after the 79 election when unemployment grew 350% in 18 months and we saw urban rioting, decay, a huge boom in criminal offences and drug addiction, soaring balance of payment defecit and a large contraction in the British economy. Oh and more strikes than during the Callaghan years.

We only lifted ourselves out of that by creating an artificial credit bubble starting with the Big Bang, transforming ourselves into an economy where the entire country's interests were subservient to the financial sector in a way that has subsequently bitten us in the ass most brutally. And now, once again, we are the "sick man of northern Europe" - in recession when other economies are recovering.

I liken it to giving a toddler a sugary drink. Sure they'll run around like a maniac for a few hours, but then the big slump sets in.

It's interesting that our better performing northern European neighbours in the main didn't privatise utilities or let bedrock industries go to the wall. When the UK was shutting coal mines which were "uneconomic at the time" the Germans - under a centre-right Chancellor - were protecting their industry for strategic reasons. Now those German mines make money, Germany imports less coal than the UK, it has cheaper energy costs per unit to the consumer and (see where this is going) a stronger industrial sector.

[RedRock]

Scargill and the leftie Unions were on the verge of destroying the UK in the past, Thatcher and her right-wing banking and currency trading allies are on the verge of destroying the UK in the present.

**** the lot of them. Vote me

[Mr Mosquito]

It's interesting that our better performing northern European neighbours in the main didn't privatise utilities or let bedrock industries go to the wall. When the UK was shutting coal mines which were "uneconomic at the time" the Germans - under a centre-right Chancellor - were protecting their industry for strategic reasons. Now those German mines make money, Germany imports less coal than the UK, it has cheaper energy costs per unit to the consumer and (see where this is going) a stronger industrial sector.

I'm pretty sure that the German Unions were not seen as such a threat as ours were. The Thatcher regime geared economic policies to nulifying Union power via de-industrialization, privatization of state industries, council house ownership, and universal share ownership together with anti union legislation that the 'socialist' New Labour Party never repealed. The Western Germans also did not have to bear the cost of their defence as we did. Britain and the U.S. saw to the defence of West Germany so that the West German government had big money to invest in industry - unlike us.

[Red-Robbo]

I'm pretty sure that the German Unions were not seen as such a threat as ours were. The Thatcher regime geared economic policies to nulifying Union power via de-industrialization, privatization of state industries, council house ownership, and universal share ownership together with anti union legislation that the 'socialist' New Labour Party never repealed. The Western Germans also did not have to bear the cost of their defence as we did. Britain and the U.S. saw to the defence of West Germany so that the West German government had big money to invest in industry - unlike us.

I doubt the cost of the British Army of the Rhine explains why the UK lags so much.

You've hit the nail on the head by saying that unions weren't seen as a threat by German governments. They viewed industry from a collaborative point of view - workers are part of the company rather than mere raw materials. For how this approach should be adopted in the UK, read the late Sir John Harvey-Jones' excellent book All Together Now.