Mrs Thatcher Dead

[WTFiGO!?!]

Enthralling reading. In terms of home policy, I believe that had she not carried on like such a non-negotiable tw*t there wouldn't be such strong feeling towards her. The 'mega-bitch on a mission' approach did her or us no favours.

Still, politics is a dirty business but someone has to do it.

If any good's come out of this personally, it will be that I'll take greater interest in the future so as to form an actual opinion. Swear I'm destined to be a middle-grounder in terms of political views, though.

I'm from a marginal left background but feel pretty central, tbh. Working with a South Wales socialist in the morning so that should be fun. Odds on he'll be hung-over to ####.

[uncle bad touch]

Proven the world over not to work. Outdated

Socialism and the redistribution of wealth is still with us.

The Chinese are beating the capitalists at their own game and are the money lender to the US. Not just a few millions but trillions.

Whilst Thatcher was de-industrialising the UK in the name of capitalism, other nations moved on leaps and bounds producing everything from paper clips to bullet trains.

Socialists are builders of countries and not wreckers of countries like Thatcher.

[Blagdon red]

"I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one - not even an enemy" - Martin Luther King

[uncle bad touch]

You can never really believe anything broadcast on the BBC propaganda newsagency channels these days. However, if toward the end, Margaret Thatcher was as anti Europe as an earlier BBC transmission said she was then she did have a good side after all.

The BBC's pro Thatcher vomit fest is hardly surprising, when you consider they just appointed Tory Lord Patten as the new boss.

BBC Radio 4 just broadcast a trailer saying the "compassionate" Margaret Thatcher came close to using nuclear weapons in the Falklands war''. .......reminded me of Orwell's 'double speak'.

What disgusted me was Ed Miliband's eulogie, sucking up to her. Isn't he supposed to be the opposition? No true Labour supporter would be caught dead praising Thatcher. New Labour = Red Tories.

[Brockleb]

Before praising this woman it would do well to remember what she wanted to do to the City of Liverpool and its citizens.

A nasty woman.

[Red Skin]

I suppose she was a superb and clever politician in exactly the same way that Hitler was a superb and clever politician. The sinking of the Belgrano was a war crime of the worst order, and she lied blatantly afterwards to try to get herself off the hook but was found out. Her aim was to crush the spirit of working people, and she achieved it. I'm amazed that anyone on a football forum has a good word to say for her.

Spot on, mate. She lacked humanity and deserves none now. Dying doesn't get you off the hook. My only dilemma is who I should hate now??? Actually, there's still Pulis.

[Red-Robbo]

First some corrections:

Destroyed lives, but also did a a lot of good.

I think it is sad people will demonise her in death, she worked damn hard from a working class baker background to get to where she did. The plummy voice all added after she got into politics because the institution would not accept her any other way, and took hell of a lot of abuse getting where she did, especially in the era she did it.

I can understand why a lot affected by her choices hate her, but I only wish we had politicians that stood up for what they believed and the backbone to stand up for theri country the way she did.

Not really "working class" was she, TRL? Her dad was a prosperous businessman, rotarian and JP. Lower-middle class perhaps. Plus she married a man who was heir to a multi-million pound company in her mid-20s. I don't think she had much of a struggle to get into politics - or ever had to worry for money.

(Not sure I can agree either that one can 'stand up for your country' by selling off its utlities so they end up in French, German and Spanish control!)

I don't think anyone is reveering her... Personally I have no Political positive or negative views on her. I just think respect should be shown. She was after all elected in, by a majority vote in this Country by 'the people'... the longest serving British Prime Minister.

Whether we agree with her deeds or views...she was no Hitler or Hussain. The very working class people who went to war during WW2 for our freedom would show respect... something this Country has lost. A person of her character and strength is missing big time in British Politics. We wouldn't be in the mess we are now for sure.

Lord Liverpool was the longest-serving British Prime Minister.Also in no general election was she elected by a 'majority of the people of this country' or even by a majority of voters. No--one has done that since the 1930s.

In my view, if she were leading the country now we'd be in an even bigger mess than we are. Her abandonement of regulation of city banks did, after all, pave the way for most of the economy's present travails.

I don't believe in all that afterlife malarkey, but should there be such a thing as reincarnation, it would be pleasing to think she could come back as a mother struggling to bring up two children on the minimum wage (a wage which of course she singularly opposed), or perhaps a disabled person having their benefit cut by her acolyte Cameron.

I don't celebrate anyone's death, but as many have said, I'd rather she had never been born.

[kevinmabbuttshair]

Socialism and the redistribution of wealth is still with us.

The Chinese are beating the capitalists at their own game and are the money lender to the US. Not just a few millions but trillions.

Whilst Thatcher was de-industrialising the UK in the name of capitalism, other nations moved on leaps and bounds producing everything from paper clips to bullet trains.

Socialists are builders of countries and not wreckers of countries like Thatcher.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

China? Really? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[JOSH17]

So what is good?

destroying trad unions and getting rid of the minimum wadge?

Being able to buy your council house and then not any more being built so a shortage of housing?

Going to war for oil?

TREATING FOOTBALL FANS LIKE ANIMALS?

Cutting mines?

Tuned the gas ,electric and water more expensive?

[Barrs Court Red]

Going to war for oil? I'd check your facts son.

[JOSH17]

Going to war for oil? I'd check your facts son.

There is oil under the islands it is just a matter of time why do you think we keep on fighting Argentina for them?

Ok the poll was fair early on in the year why could we not give them the vote instead of the war?

[JOSH17]

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-04/the-falkland-islands-brace-for-oil-wealth

[marshy]

I'm reminded of a scene in Solzenitzhin where the prisoners in a Siberian gulag are called together for an announcement by the camp commandant. "It is my painful duty to tell you that our Great Leader, Joseph Stalin, has passed away. Take off your caps, you scum. Show some respect!"

Three hundred caps are thrown in the air as one.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with this comment but I doubt you could find two leaders with such diametrically opposed views. I know which leader I'd prefer to live under, and it's not Stalin. Can't remember that scene from my reading of the Gulag Archipelago...is it from another book?

[marshy]

Post deleted

Well I was living and working in Barnsley at the height of the miners' strike. As a 'Softy Southerner' it was a bizarre experience. I remember what the country was like before she took office. The economy in a complete mess, double digit inflation, never a day without a strike somewhere by a bunch of workers that had the power to hold the country to ransom. She had the strength and vision to turn this country around and I can still see little wrong with her vision of a share-owning and home-owning democracy. People who keep trotting out the mantra of her quote "there is no such thing as society" never bother to go on to read the rest of the speech because it doesn't suit their purpose. At the time the pits were uneconomic, without some drastic change to pay and conditions, so how long should the taxpayer be expected to subsidise whole communities ?

Whatever you think of her she was British through and through and put the interests of her country above her own self-interest, unlike so many politicians around today. It would be unthinkable that she could have been involved in an expenses scandal for instance. I was against her at the time but over the years have come round to a grudging admiration for the way she gave this country a damn good kick up the backside and dragged it out of its downward spiral as ''the sick man of Europe''. Your last sentence is an absolute disgrace and one you should be thoroughly ashamed of.

[Cunnyfunt]

Blame the politics, not the person.

[chipdawg]

presenting a different slant to the shite you read in socialist worker: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3635244/Thatcher-always-honoured-Britains-debt-to-Pinochet.html

I don't see anything wrong in being socialist as such, but if you're so keen on being one then perhaps you should see first hand what living in a socialist country entails. Talk is already underway in Poland to build a statue for Thatcher, primarily because the people are ever grateful to her massive contribution to their eventual freedom. Their freedom from the politics you espouse that were responsible for untold suffering.

Oh my goodness me.... PINOCHET WAS HEAD OF AN UNELECTED MILITARY JUNTA THAT MADE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DISAPPEAR. Arguing that we 'owed him' or that 'he wasn't as bad as Castro' has nothing to do with the fact that he was a violent, repressive dictator. Given that Thatcher repeatedly refused to adhere to the boycotts of the Apartheid regime and referred to Mandela as 'a terrorist', it's hardly suprising she was keen on General Pinochet

Similarly, all the critcism of 'socialism' is ludicrous; I presume none of you who espouse to dislike it use the NHS? Or will claim your state pension? Or have claimed child tax credits? Or taken out a government regulated insurance policy? Or kept your money in a government regulated (admittedly not well regulated, though that was capitalism sticking it's oar in) banking system? These are all socialist principles or ideals. We live in an inherently socialist society, all of Western Europe is inherently socialist. It's ingrained to one level or another in all aspects of our society to the point that many if you obviously no longer recognise it as socialism. Indeed, even the least 'socialist' country in Europe, Switzerland, have social security and subsidised health care. All this talk of socialism being a failed experiment is bullshit; it's ingrained in almost every society in the western world

[chipdawg]

They got my support, but ask any Welsh miner of the time about Scargill's tactics...

As much as I dislike Thatcher, Scargill was in some ways worse. The TUC encouraged the NUM under Scargill into making a stand to maintain the status quo, with Arthurs prize being hero status. They were fully aware that by staying out of the mines for an extended period, many of them (more than Thatcher proposed to shut) would never be able to be worked again. This is especially apparent in that the mine engineers union repeatedly pleaded with the NUM to be allowed through the pickets to ensure that the mines could be kept in working order and were repeatedly refused. He has as much responsibility on his shoulders as Maggie IMO

[phantom]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22077072

Seven police officers were injured when violence flared at a gathering in Bristol to celebrate the death of Margaret Thatcher.

Police were called to Chelsea Road, Easton, shortly after midnight where about 200 people had gathered.

The force said one person was arrested on suspicion of violent disorder. Bins were also set on fire.

A gathering was also held in Brixton in south London by people who said they were celebrating the death.

It attracted a heavy police presence and led to small scale acts of vandalism and graffiti.

'Pelted with bottles'

A Bristol police spokesperson said the protesters refused to leave peacefully and bottles and cans were thrown at officers.

The demo was advertised on social media websites where people were invited to converge upon Chelsea Rd between the two pubs - The Chelsea and The Plough.

Ch Insp Mark Jackson, of Avon and Somerset Police, said: "It seemed to be a street party which people had pulled together in relation to the death of Baroness Thatcher.

"It occurred during the evening and was just a normal peaceful party but at about half past ten it expanded somewhat and there was 150 to 200 people gathered in the street.

"They had set fire to bins and had loud music playing and were being generally quite unruly.

"As you can imagine, the local residents were quite upset by this and wanted something done about it.

"They were asked by officers to end the party and turn the music off but that unfortunately just led to hostilities and officers were pelted with bottles and cans.

"So far it appears seven officers were injured. One of them is still in hospital receiving treatment."

Police are conducting house-to-house inquiries.

[Kid in the Riot]

I do not get this 'do not speak ill of the dead' nonsense. She was a horrible woman who ruined the lives of many. She lacked compassion. So why should we be compassionate towards her?

Now is the time to mourn the victims of Thatcher, not attempt to rewrite history just because she's dead.

[chipdawg]

I do not get this 'do not speak ill of the dead' nonsense. She was a horrible woman who ruined the lives of many. She lacked compassion. So why should we be compassionate towards her?

Now is the time to mourn the victims of Thatcher, not attempt to rewrite history just because she's dead.

History is written by the victors and as successive governments reaction to the banking crisis, i.e. Protect those who caused it lest they run away with all the tax money they don't pay anyway, the people that Thatcher's policies subjugated are yet to taste victory

That said, I don't really agree with getting together for a party and fighting with the police or setting stuff on fire. To an extent, that kind of behaviour helps to justify her opinion of the 'working classes'

[marshy]

First some corrections:

Not really "working class" was she, TRL? Her dad was a prosperous businessman, rotarian and JP. Lower-middle class perhaps. Plus she married a man who was heir to a multi-million pound company in her mid-20s. I don't think she had much of a struggle to get into politics - or ever had to worry for money.

(Not sure I can agree either that one can 'stand up for your country' by selling off its utlities so they end up in French, German and Spanish control!)

Lord Liverpool was the longest-serving British Prime Minister.Also in no general election was she elected by a 'majority of the people of this country' or even by a majority of voters. No--one has done that since the 1930s.

In my view, if she were leading the country now we'd be in an even bigger mess than we are. Her abandonement of regulation of city banks did, after all, pave the way for most of the economy's present travails.

I don't believe in all that afterlife malarkey, but should there be such a thing as reincarnation, it would be pleasing to think she could come back as a mother struggling to bring up two children on the minimum wage (a wage which of course she singularly opposed), or perhaps a disabled person having their benefit cut by her acolyte Cameron.

I don't celebrate anyone's death, but as many have said, I'd rather she had never been born.

Just to be pedantic I think you'll find that Sir Robert Walpole was the longest serving British P.M. Besides I don't think that Derek Hatton, aka Lord Liverpool, ever made it to P.M., thank God ! Thatcher was certainly the longest serving in the 20th century and did a great job dragging this country out of the doldrums, from being the 'sick man of Europe' into a dynamic modern economy in which many hundreds of thousands of immigrants aspire to participate. If the Unions and the likes of Scargill had won we would certainly have been in a bigger mess, stuck with loss making, taxpayer supported industry and outmoded working practices.

[lifelong]

History is written by the victors and as successive governments reaction to the banking crisis, i.e. Protect those who caused it lest they run away with all the tax money they don't pay anyway, the people that Thatcher's policies subjugated are yet to taste victory

That said, I don't really agree with getting together for a party and fighting with the police or setting stuff on fire. To an extent, that kind of behaviour helps to justify her opinion of the 'working classes'

My son lives on Chelsea road and was battoned by the police for trying to return to his house. As for the demonstration it was all peaceful until Police in full riot gear appeared, nothing sinister or dangerous.

[chipdawg]

Just to be pedantic I think you'll find that Sir Robert Walpole was the longest serving British P.M. Besides I don't think that Derek Hatton, aka Lord Liverpool, ever made it to P.M., thank God ! Thatcher was certainly the longest serving in the 20th century and did a great job dragging this country out of the doldrums, from being the 'sick man of Europe' into a dynamic modern economy in which many hundreds of thousands of immigrants aspire to participate. If the Unions and the likes of Scargill had won we would certainly have been in a bigger mess, stuck with loss making, taxpayer supported industry and outmoded working practices.

Perhaps it would have shown more foresight to modernise those industries and support them with infrastructure and political muscle rather than destroy them to such an extent as they could never operate again? Perhaps then, our "modern, dynamic" economy wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now....

[TRL]

Perhaps it would have shown more foresight to modernise those industries and support them with infrastructure and political muscle rather than destroy them to such an extent as they could never operate again? Perhaps then, our "modern, dynamic" economy wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now....

Where was the money coming from to modernise? How can you modernise when the Unions take people out on strike at the drop of a hat, they held this country to ransom for too long. If any sort of modernisation was to take palce, and yes that would have meant job cuts, guess what, the Unions are out on strike again.

At the end of the day, the unions had it coming and shat on their members from a great height. if they truly worried about their members, maybe the harsh end game played out by Thatcher and her party would not have been so brutal.

I am no Thatcherite, I do respect some of the things she did, disagreed with a lot that she did. She killed a lot of our industry, but I believe she just quickened it, it was already on its arse diing a horrible death at the hands of the unions.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

If the Unions and the likes of Scargill had won we would certainly have been in a bigger mess, stuck with loss making, taxpayer supported industry and outmoded working practices.

Yes, that's exactly what Thatcher and her cronies wanted you to believe. The point though is that what she was frightened of was working people in this country having a collective voice, and people like Scargill and Hatton made her job easy for her, as did the willingness of the British populace to buy anything she said, however ludicrous. She portrayed the fight against the Unions as a fight against militant extremism, but the majority of Trade Union members were not militant extremists, but ordinary working people fighting for their rights. The small extreme left of the Trade Union movement in the 1980s quite deliberately wanted conflict with Thatcher because it believed, naively, that it could create chaos and ultimately revolution that way. The Militant Tendency in particular wanted to create anarchy, and this played into Thatcher's hands. But in destroying the trade union movement, what she was trying to do was to remove the working people's voice, so as to undermine Labour's core support. The notion that Scargill or Hatton would have run the country if she hadn't done what she did is completely fanciful. The Militant Tendancy, and Hatton in particular, was largely hated within the Labour movement, and the Stalinists represented by Scargill were bound to die out eventually (and they did).

[lifelong]

Where was the money coming from to modernise? How can you modernise when the Unions take people out on strike at the drop of a hat, they held this country to ransom for too long. If any sort of modernisation was to take palce, and yes that would have meant job cuts, guess what, the Unions are out on strike again.

At the end of the day, the unions had it coming and shat on their members from a great height. if they truly worried about their members, maybe the harsh end game played out by Thatcher and her party would not have been so brutal.

I am no Thatcherite, I do respect some of the things she did, disagreed with a lot that she did. She killed a lot of our industry, but I believe she just quickened it, it was already on its arse diing a horrible death at the hands of the union

Well for a start there was the Billions of North Sea Oil revenue which was wasted paying out huge sums of benefits in the 80s to all the poor bastards she put out of work!!

[marshy]

Perhaps it would have shown more foresight to modernise those industries and support them with infrastructure and political muscle rather than destroy them to such an extent as they could never operate again? Perhaps then, our "modern, dynamic" economy wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now....

Well firstly I personally don't believe that it's the Govenment's job to modernise industry. That's best left to industrialists rather than Government employees who generally don't have a clue. Secondly any attempt at change was met with resistance by the Unions who were only interested in the short-term benefits they could screw from their employers. Now if they could have behaved with a more mature attitude and taken a long-term view as to supply side reform, as did the Unions in Germany for instance, then perhaps we might have had a stronger industrial base today. As it is our economy isn't in quite the mess you portray as we seem able to absorb vast numbers of workers from abroad who find working here a far better option than staying at home.

[chipdawg]

Where was the money coming from to modernise? How can you modernise when the Unions take people out on strike at the drop of a hat, they held this country to ransom for too long. If any sort of modernisation was to take palce, and yes that would have meant job cuts, guess what, the Unions are out on strike again.

At the end of the day, the unions had it coming and shat on their members from a great height. if they truly worried about their members, maybe the harsh end game played out by Thatcher and her party would not have been so brutal.

I am no Thatcherite, I do respect some of the things she did, disagreed with a lot that she did. She killed a lot of our industry, but I believe she just quickened it, it was already on its arse diing a horrible death at the hands of the unions.

Don't get me wrong; the unions played their full part in this. Scargill was as much to blame for what happened in places like Worsborough Bridge and Grimethorpe, Rhonda and Wigan. He put his agenda ahead of the best interests of the people he represented knowing full well that he was signing the closure papers for more collieries than Thatcher originally wanted to shut. But the horrendous lack of foresight she displayed at that time is one of the things that has choked our economy 30 years later. That government had money from selling off many other utilities (BT had gone before the miners strike for starters) and she never went to the unions and said "I'm prepared to invest in a sustainable mining industry, some people will lose their jobs but you'll still be here in 30 years". What she did was fixate on the politics of the issue and damn the future health of our economy. I admit that hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we're the ones left trying to prosper in an unbalanced, hamstrung economy that she created

[TRUEBRIT66]

Where was the money coming from to modernise? How can you modernise when the Unions take people out on strike at the drop of a hat, they held this country to ransom for too long. If any sort of modernisation was to take palce, and yes that would have meant job cuts, guess what, the Unions are out on strike again.

At the end of the day, the unions had it coming and shat on their members from a great height. if they truly worried about their members, maybe the harsh end game played out by Thatcher and her party would not have been so brutal.

I am no Thatcherite, I do respect some of the things she did, disagreed with a lot that she did. She killed a lot of our industry, but I believe she just quickened it, it was already on its arse diing a horrible death at the hands of the unions.

I disliked Thatcher with a vengance, I will never forgive her for the poll tax. I was recently married when it was brought in and our first child had been born, our rates went from £180 per year too £220 for both myself and my wife who was obviously not working or claiming any benifits other than child benifit, every month became a huge struggle.

But then I detest the unions I worked for the NHS recently and I could not believe the way they dictate, and no joking, put lives at risk for their petty agendas.

[Red Skin]

Well I was living and working in Barnsley at the height of the miners' strike. As a 'Softy Southerner' it was a bizarre experience. I remember what the country was like before she took office. The economy in a complete mess, double digit inflation, never a day without a strike somewhere by a bunch of workers that had the power to hold the country to ransom. She had the strength and vision to turn this country around and I can still see little wrong with her vision of a share-owning and home-owning democracy. People who keep trotting out the mantra of her quote "there is no such thing as society" never bother to go on to read the rest of the speech because it doesn't suit their purpose. At the time the pits were uneconomic, without some drastic change to pay and conditions, so how long should the taxpayer be expected to subsidise whole communities ?

Whatever you think of her she was British through and through and put the interests of her country above her own self-interest, unlike so many politicians around today. It would be unthinkable that she could have been involved in an expenses scandal for instance. I was against her at the time but over the years have come round to a grudging admiration for the way she gave this country a damn good kick up the backside and dragged it out of its downward spiral as ''the sick man of Europe''. Your last sentence is an absolute disgrace and one you should be thoroughly ashamed of.

I was living in Newcastle during the miner strike and she won't have many friends up there. Paolo Di Canio will be off the hook for a little while at least in Sunderland.

I stand by my last statement (now deleted). It's how I feel about the woman. You can choose to be offended by that if you wish, but what gives you the right to tell me how I should feel? You gonna tell me what to think next to? Its just opinion and mine is no more or less valid than anyone else's. Get over it.