Typical Johnson

[no_merde]

Youth budget doesnt count towards SCMP/FFP.

Bold statement, completely and utterly miles of course and target mind...

How is it miles off course? The academy has never and will never turn a profit. The money is better spent elsewhere.

[SecretSam]

How is it miles off course? The academy has never and will never turn a profit. The money is better spent elsewhere.

Where? On more "proven quality" players with no resale value and high wages?

Get an academy working and it's a superb generator of players...if you don't believe me, ask Southampton, Crewe, or maybe that Ferguson bloke who used to be at Man Utd, he liked playing the odd kid. Mind you, he was shit, wasn't he?

We don't know if our kids are any good because we never play the poor sods

[swampy]

I guessed when Yeovil made it above City some shallow comments would appear. A monumental achievement. Success next season for the Glovers = staying up. Smallest ground in the top 2 divisions. Smallest town population in all 4 leagues - 40 000. Same as Bedminster or Kingswood or Trowbridge/Westbury. Half the size of Bath. Fair play. It will be the season of memories for their fans even if they come straight back down again. Amazing to think some away sides could bring enough support to fill the ground - Leeds eg. No more sour grapes please - would rather Yeovil v Leeds or whoever than City versus ... On another note, Rovers v Newport next season - that is a tasty match!!

[hippy273]

Beacuse Yeovil can't afford it.

Its simple - as a club they turn over a bit more than we spend just on the academy.

They aren't alone, a lot of lower division clubs have been forced into this position by the stringent rules put in place by the FA.

Naff all to do with GJ.

Agreed, they have one of the lowest budgets in League 1 even, they might stay up in the Championship with GJ's thought out plans to scout out the cheaper and skilled players. He won't afford any Championship wages though, unless our lot were willing to take a pay cut to stay in the area and play Championship football next season.

[Webzcas]

For a Conference Manager Gary Johnson is not half bad.

If only we had him at our club, oh wait a minute.....

[Portland Bill]

Beacuse Yeovil can't afford it.

Its simple - as a club they turn over a bit more than we spend just on the academy.

They aren't alone, a lot of lower division clubs have been forced into this position by the stringent rules put in place by the FA.

Naff all to do with GJ.

Yes they could and yes they can,it only cost them 30k to run the COE,180k came from the FA.

When EPPP came in it did mean that it would cost more,about an extra 30k, but GJ stated that he would rather get loans in from other clubs.

I was at the meeting where he said this, the day after he closed the COE down.

Yeovil's loss is Exeter City's gain, they have been brilliant with all the lads who got shit on by Yeovil.

They have taken several into there academy, an academy that is going from strength to strength.

Yeovil, once the inevitable relegation happens will regret there short sighted decision.

[no_merde]

Where? On more "proven quality" players with no resale value and high wages?

Get an academy working and it's a superb generator of players...if you don't believe me, ask Southampton, Crewe, or maybe that Ferguson bloke who used to be at Man Utd, he liked playing the odd kid. Mind you, he was shit, wasn't he?

We don't know if our kids are any good because we never play the poor sods

All wonderfully emotive and subjective words there, but entirely based on fallacy.

Get in the real world where finance is all that matters.

We produce one quality player and sell them £2-3m. Whopppeeee. But we've spent 7-10 years developing them in an Academy that costs £xm per year to run.

Yeah, great business sense.

It's this kind of economic illiteracy that has got this county into the mess it's in today.

[havanatopia]

Perhaps the one good thing that will come out of McInnes stint, is that we may finally be attracting the right talent and more to the point coaching staff!

Who brought Spink in?

[LoyalRed]

The best managers in their respective divisions this season.

Sir Alex Ferguson named LMA Manager of the Year. Championship: Malky Mackay. L1: Gary Johnson, L2: Martin Allen

[Monkeh]

Yes they could and yes they can,it only cost them 30k to run the COE,180k came from the FA.

When EPPP came in it did mean that it would cost more,about an extra 30k, but GJ stated that he would rather get loans in from other clubs.

I was at the meeting where he said this, the day after he closed the COE down.

Yeovil's loss is Exeter City's gain, they have been brilliant with all the lads who got shit on by Yeovil.

They have taken several into there academy, an academy that is going from strength to strength.

Yeovil, once the inevitable relegation happens will regret there short sighted decision.

No they couldn't thats why they got rid of it, I would of thought Yeovils board and managers know more about their budgets then you do

[no_merde]

The best managers in their respective divisions this season.

Sir Alex Ferguson named LMA Manager of the Year. Championship: Malky Mackay. L1: Gary Johnson, L2: Martin Allen

Haha - what muppets we are. Had our own Ferguson but booted him out because we thought we knew better!

[RedM]

It seems we have had our academy for a number of years now without ever using it properly, it has just been 'there', a sort of status symbol maybe? Managers have come and gone, on the whole dismissed what it has produced and chosen to spend money elsewhere. Mainly buying or loaning someone else's unwanted players who were on the downward path of their career. Of course there are a few exceptions to this but mainly we've been a rest home for journeymen, or that's what it feels like.

I think Del recognised the benefit of having an academy and lots of changes to staffing were made during his time here. Well he had to if budget cuts had to be made, and severe ones at that i understand. Looking back now I think he tried to do too much with that side of things and neglected first team business, maybe the help and support wasn't there for him, or pressures of time scales were just unrealistic.

I think we are at a real turning point, we've invested too much to bin the academy, yet not enough spent or effort in making it pay or be of any real use. We seem to develop players who go on to some success with someone else, usually at a lower level, but that is where we find ourselves now. So we should benefit at last?

As for Gary J, very happy for him and Yeovil. Not sure how he will do when he has to spend money in the championship as he seems one of those managers who do better with no money. I don't know if he still has family ties with his brother scouting for him either which I don't think was healthy, obviously Lee is his own man now which is best for both of them. Loans between clubs maybe?

[Jordan Tansley]

Strong words, completely baseless. as well. Never made a profit... So it comes down to money rather than you know actual development of players and saving us paying transfer fees in the future, progression and the possibility of making sales.

I've already noted Cotterill for £2.2million quid. I'm not sure what else you want from it, as developing players and setting them up with the tools to play pro football whether it be for us (as ideally it should be) or elsewhere is much more important, but completely lost on you it would appear

Not often I say this, but good post Ralph! Agree 100%

[Threshersleftboot]

Gary Johnson is by far the best manager we have had since Alan Dicks,Im'e sure if we had stuck with him we would be playing in the premiership instead of grubbing about in the lower league's.

[SecretSam]

Haha - what muppets we are. Had our own Ferguson but booted him out because we thought we knew better!

Yup, and we could have had Martin Allen as well, he would really have fitted in, must be a genius if he's mentioned in the same sentence as SAF

The on-going love in for GJ on here is baffling, a large majority of us wanted him gone and he went. End of.

[SecretSam]

All wonderfully emotive and subjective words there, but entirely based on fallacy.

Get in the real world where finance is all that matters.

We produce one quality player and sell them £2-3m. Whopppeeee. But we've spent 7-10 years developing them in an Academy that costs £xm per year to run.

Yeah, great business sense.

It's this kind of economic illiteracy that has got this county into the mess it's in today.

I'm an accountant

That's not how you measure value

You also take into account opportunity costs/benefits ie if you develop a young player for nothing (apart from the cost of the academy), you compare this to the cost of bringing a player through

A lot on here seem to forget that in our darkest days, back in the 80s, it was kids that saw us through, mind you, players like Newman were utter shit, weren't they...oh, hang on, they weren't...

[Portland Bill]

No they couldn't thats why they got rid of it, I would of thought Yeovils board and managers know more about their budgets then you do

They got rid of it because they have a manager who doesn't believe in youth development.

The previous managers DID, that's why they had a youth development set up when they were there.

Next you will tell us all that it is just a coincidence that the Yeovil COE was started when GJ left Yeovil, then closed when he returned!.

You know nothing about what went in at that club, unfortunately for you, i do.

[SecretSam]

They got rid of it because they have a manager who doesn't believe in youth development.

The previous managers DID, that's why they had a youth development set up when they were there.

Next you will tell us all that it is just a coincidence that the Yeovil COE was started when GJ left Yeovil, then closed when he returned!.

You know nothing about what went in at that club, unfortunately for you, i do.

Exactly

GJ believes that developing youth is other team's jobs

I disagree, and it would seem that our board do, too

[Esmond Million's Bung]

They got rid of it because they have a manager who doesn't believe in youth development.

The previous managers DID, that's why they had a youth development set up when they were there.

Next you will tell us all that it is just a coincidence that the Yeovil COE was started when GJ left Yeovil, then closed when he returned!.

You know nothing about what went in at that club, unfortunately for you, i do.

Can't and won"t argue with the 1st sentence.

Funnily though the previous manager is still at the club as GJ's assistant, so does he a) agree with GJ on this matter. b) disagree with GJ but dosen't have the balls to speak up or c) just taking the money and couldn't give a shit.

GJ does not own the club, he can say "I want this, I want that" but only the owners can implement it, your anger is directed at the wrong people.

[Opeth67]

Gary J was a good manager for City - in his first few years, but then he completely lost the plot both on field and in the dressing room. The board made exactly the right decision by letting him go. The big mistake was the board taking on Coppell and the fiasco around that, then the knee-jerk reaction on giving the job to Millen.

Back to Gary - anyone here forget the cock up he made of his job at Peterborough? Of - and now I'm forgetting too - what happened at Northampton?

One final thing - too many people are saying Yeovil have "gone above us". No - they haven't - they went up and we went down. We have ended up as much below them as they ended above us.

[Portland Bill]

Can't and won"t argue with the 1st sentence.

Funnily though the previous manager is still at the club as GJ's assistant, so does he a) agree with GJ on this matter. b) disagree with GJ but dosen't have the balls to speak up or c) just taking the money and couldn't give a shit.

GJ does not own the club, he can say "I want this, I want that" but only the owners can implement it, your anger is directed at the wrong people.

The previous manager was involved big time in the COE, as was the other coach ( who had the bad injury) whose name escapes me at the moment.

Edit, Darren Way.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The previous manager was involved big time in the COE, as was the other coach ( who had the bad injury) whose name escapes me at the moment.

Edit, Darren Way.

and now they are not, but still at the club, sounds like they must be happy or without any principles, so a, b or c Bill?

[RedM]

and now they are not, but still at the club, sounds like they must be happy or without any principles, so a, b or c Bill?

It can be argued that they've put all their energies and resources into gaining promotion. It's worked, short term anyway. It seems Gary has that returning hero status at the club and seen as a father figure to both Skiverton & Way. Would they question his decisions anyway? They both have been at the club for the bulk of their careers and have secured jobs after ending their playing days, they now have the greatest success in the clubs history, they aren't going to rock the boat.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

It can be argued that they've put all their energies and resources into gaining promotion. It's worked, short term anyway. It seems Gary has that returning hero status at the club and seen as a father figure to both Skiverton & Way. Would they question his decisions anyway? They both have been at the club for the bulk of their careers and have secured jobs after ending their playing days, they now have the greatest success in the clubs history, they aren't going to rock the boat.

Ummmm, well that to me sounds exactly like the sort reasoning many on here put forward when we appointed Millen in my view spineless jelly fish type, who if true just allowed GJ to carry out his reign of terror unchecked, in my book worse than the bully himself, managers, assistants and coaches should be a little bit more principled than that, no wonder BCFC is in such shit.

[beaverface]

I'd just like to make the point that it's not just City who are throwing money into the Academy, but also all the many hundreds of City fans who also buy into the Academy by subscribing to the City Trust - where a certain % goes towards the academy.

The Academy isn't just a club vision, but a vision held by a lot of our fans also.

[no_merde]

I see you arent responding to me, when I've complete destroyed your discussion

Seeing things from a fiscal point of view, and only a fiscal pov is horrendously short termist and missing the point.

Going from what you have said, you would rather the club that is already deep in debt, ditch the academy which is a cost effective way of bringing new players through when we play them, to limiting our options going forward as we are capped by SCMP etc

The academy doesnt count towards SCMP. The horrendous wages and fees etc have contributed to where we are now and you wish to continue this insanity in favour of ignoring producing in house players which is of massive benefit to us and other clubs by association to having no developed players. Because we are limited to whatever percentage of turn over, this will severely limit our options when it comes to building a team and means we can have no progression without buying in and spending more to do that. Because that is tied in with SCMP, you are advocating us effectively minimising any flexibilty with in SCMP confines by using all the money on players that have got us in this fiscal mess in the first place, as opposed to a sustainable organic club which doesnt need to buy in and spend and develop from within

Madness, complete and utter madness.

What is the point you'd like me to respond to?

The Academy isn't a cost effective way of bringing new players through - I've already proven that with the rather basic arithmetic earlier. It's horrendously narrow minded view - just becuase we don't write a big fat cheque for the player doesn't mean we haven't paid for them. The staffing, infrastruture, maintenance costs etc. all need to be absorbed and when you consider that every 5 years it might produce a player who we can sell for £2-3m it doesn't make financial sense.

Far better for us to plug into the foreign eastern-european / emerging world scout networks and bring players in that a relatively proven who are hungry to establish themselves in the UK league.

You know I'm right, because the market tells you so: If these academies were so worth their salt why are the majority of football clubs closing theirs down? And if they produced

such great product why have all of our previous 5 managers not deployed any of it?

SCMP is a complete red herring as all clubs are laboring under the same issue.

Finally, on our financial mess - remember it takes two: the creditor and the debtor.

[bucksred]

The problem with what GJ has done at Yeovil is that he's destroyed that clubs future.

Yes,great achievement getting promotion, but all Yeovil now have is a 1st team. No reserves,no youth team and no centre of excellence,nothing.

When the inevitable happens and Yeovil come back down,the club is going to fall like a stone because there is no back up.

He's put all his eggs in one basket,you can only do that short term,you have to have a long term plan ( this is partly why City have struggled,because GJ didnt put any long term plan in place, it was all now now now) City are big enough to come back, but, in 2 years time Yeovil could well be in free fall.

Top top post..people forget this fact all too quickly. The very average sides he assembled although very hard working and fit teams simply were not good enough for the Championship here at the Gate. His loan signings here were very avery average and they helped consign us to our current state. Will be very interesting to see how Yeovil cope. They wont be able to offer massive wages for loanees or signings.

But look on the plus side for City (and unfortuneately Rovers too) this is a MASSIVE incentive to pull their socks up and at least match Yeovil.

We might at least see some youth players or academy players coming through now his (and bloody Millen too) baleful influence is gone. Where will Yeovil be able to find their next generation? The Savage's, the Akinde's

[Gol]

Haha - what muppets we are. Had our own Ferguson but booted him out because we thought we knew better!

Quite an exaggeration fergie has built a lasting legacy including an excellent academy. Johnson gave us two fantastic seasons but laid the foundations for the decline we are in now by advising the board to give large long term contracts to players who's ability did not merit these. In his 3 seasons in the championship we finished 4th, 10th and when he left we were 15th with the cracks starting to show. Admittedly managers since have not addressed the problems from johnsons days couple that with the championship becoming much more competitive have seen us to where we are now.

With regards to the academy I had a mate who was there at the time in the under 18s n he said that Johnson showed little or no interest in their development. To say it hasn't produced as Cotterill goldbourne n joe Edwards off the top of my head came through n will be playing at higher level than us next season whilst we will be playing a number of our former academy product in the next season. I find it ironic that the people on this thread moaning about the academy on other threads moan about not having enough young home grown youngsters. To produce these surely you need an academy or COE.

[bucksred]

Ummmm, well that to me sounds exactly like the sort reasoning many on here put forward when we appointed Millen in my view spineless jelly fish type, who if true just allowed GJ to carry out his reign of terror unchecked, in my book worse than the bully himself, managers, assistants and coaches should be a little bit more principled than that, no wonder BCFC is in such shit.

Millen SHOULD have got the bullet when Tinnion got his. I never cease to be amazed he didnt. Probably explains why GJ kept him on as a doormat to wipe his feet on. Millen has significantly added to BCFC's woes in his own right anyways, quite apart from the shared woes with Johnson.

[bucksred]

This quote from Redoxo really excited me, really really really hope its true:

"Gary Johnson looks to raid old club Bristol City for Fonts (apparently he's keen for as new challenge and to work with GJ again) and Kilkenny."

Oh ******* yesssssssssssss!!!!! I'll drive the useless ***** there meself, and no I wont ask for petrol money, no honest I insist. I might be on the rock n roll but it will be a ****** pleasure drivin those two useless ***** there, it would be so worth it!.

Gerkin, & Nyatanga could also find a home there n all

Somehow dont think Sproule, Orr, Noble, McIndoe, Keogh, or Basso will though.......