nebristolred Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 My main gripe is that if this hadn't been a couple who were well educated and/or white, there would have been an investigation into the parents "neglect" of their children. They'd left those kids every night of the holiday so far I suspect, and someone had seen what they were doing, and saw their chance. I'm sure Madeline is dead (either that or Portugal has its very own Ariel Castro) and my hope is that this might eventually prove that I usually agree with most things you've posted on here but it appears I'm in the minority and I completely disagree I'm afraid. I'm pretty sure that no one here could find me a case of a similar situation where people have been convicted of neglect by leaving their kids in this way. Admittedly, that's partly because UK neglect law is very outdated, but on the whole it's not something that you would pursue in this situation, there would be little benefit. I'm not saying it's necessarily right, but I don't think there's any class prejudice here. And to people saying they should be charged with neglect, do you not think losing your child is enough punishment? They are paying the ultimate price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I usually agree with most things you've posted on here but it appears I'm in the minority and I completely disagree I'm afraid. I'm pretty sure that no one here could find me a case of a similar situation where people have been convicted of neglect by leaving their kids in this way. Admittedly, that's partly because UK neglect law is very outdated, but on the whole it's not something that you would pursue in this situation, there would be little benefit. I'm not saying it's necessarily right, but I don't think there's any class prejudice here. And to people saying they should be charged with neglect, do you not think losing your child is enough punishment? They are paying the ultimate price. Well they did Neglect the children didn't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Legally, as far as I know, no, they didn't. Well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Nonsense mate. If that was my kid I'd definitely still be pursuing it (assuming I didn't murder them of course). No idea how true it is, but from one of the links provided in this thread (the 100 reasons why Madeline wasnt abducted) it says the McCanns have never requested the re-opening of the investigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 No idea how true it is, but from one of the links provided in this thread (the 100 reasons why Madeline wasnt abducted) it says the McCanns have never requested the re-opening of the investigation There's also links on the Internet claiming that the McCann's rung Sky News half an hour before the Police, and that Maddie's blood was found in the McCann's car (which even if true, is easily explainable as a parent). I would take most of these "facts" with a pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Don't know how you could accuse the parents for the disappearance could you?? Yes, they shouldn't of left the kids but do you really think this was planned? I know some people do I think you should get in touch with crimestoppers then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The two points that are most alarming to me are: 78. Despite the Madeleine's disappearance looking like an inside job from the outset, the McCann's and their friends were happy enough returning their children to the MW creche just hours later, despite not knowing if any of the staff were involved 79. When Kate raised the alarm, she ran back to the table, leaving the twins in the apartment while not knowing whether the abductor(s) were still onsite If one of your children has just been taken, and you have no idea who by, surely you do not leave your other children with strangers? Infact surely you do not let them out of your site?! unless of course you know that the staff are innocent because you are infact guilty... And the second point there is the same. Your child has just been abducted, the abducter could still be around or in the area, so you leave the twins to raise the alarm?! do you hell! Another odd thing, but probably less notable really, is that Kate reportedly came back to the table and said "theyve taken her" - not distinguishing between which of their two daughters had been taken... that one is probably reading a little too much into something though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Legally, as far as I know, no, they didn't. Well played. Neglect means fail to care for properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted October 15, 2013 Admin Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 There's also links on the Internet claiming that the McCann's rung Sky News half an hour before the Police, and that Maddie's blood was found in the McCann's car (which even if true, is easily explainable as a parent). I would take most of these "facts" with a pinch of salt. The car they hired, after she was reported missing............. It was DNA trace not blood, but still somewhat suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The car they hired, after she was reported missing............. It was DNA trace not blood, but still somewhat suspicious. Not so sure about that. Contact trace DNA is exceedingly easy to leave. Anyone who you've ever shaken hands with is likely to have yours at their home, even if you've not been there. Just depends on how hard you look, which in this case would've been to the nth degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted October 15, 2013 Admin Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Not so sure about that. Contact trace DNA is exceedingly easy to leave. Anyone who you've ever shaken hands with is likely to have yours at their home, even if you've not been there. Just depends on how hard you look, which in this case would've been to the nth degree. They found it in the boot, under the mat, so maybe it was all by coincidental transfer, but I always had the feeling there was something 'dodgy' about the incident and nothing yet has led me to change my mind that there are still some revelations to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 They found it in the boot, under the mat, so maybe it was all by coincidental transfer, but I always had the feeling there was something 'dodgy' about the incident and nothing yet has led me to change my mind that there are still some revelations to come. You may well be right. I would imagine that the Met are keeping a more open mind than they'd have you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 They found it in the boot, under the mat, so maybe it was all by coincidental transfer, but I always had the feeling there was something 'dodgy' about the incident and nothing yet has led me to change my mind that there are still some revelations to come. Again, not sure how accurate this source is: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500712/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-detectives-knew-there-was-no-case-against-parents.html Suggests that the DNA trace in the car was a lie used by Portugese police to pressure the McCanns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I usually agree with most things you've posted on here but it appears I'm in the minority and I completely disagree I'm afraid. I'm pretty sure that no one here could find me a case of a similar situation where people have been convicted of neglect by leaving their kids in this way. Admittedly, that's partly because UK neglect law is very outdated, but on the whole it's not something that you would pursue in this situation, there would be little benefit. I'm not saying it's necessarily right, but I don't think there's any class prejudice here. And to people saying they should be charged with neglect, do you not think losing your child is enough punishment? They are paying the ultimate price. The pertinent point is that the complex they were staying at actually had a child/baby monitoring service, which they decided to ignore and just leave these children alone, it's not as of they never had choices. and as for the class issue, how many people in the same predicament manage an audience with the pope and not forgetting the incredible expense to tax payers of the UK police enquiry, I cannot recall a similar case where either of those two have previously issues occurred, class is an issue here no doubt about it. Yes they are paying the ultimate price a burden they brought upon themselves by their complete selfishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Again, not sure how accurate this source is: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500712/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-detectives-knew-there-was-no-case-against-parents.html Suggests that the DNA trace in the car was a lie used by Portugese police to pressure the McCanns A lie? I wish I could do that in interview! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Neglect means fail to care for properly. I'm fully aware of what neglect means ffs . The legal offence however is somewhat different, and refers more to neglect with regard to medical aid and nutrition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The pertinent point is that the complex they were staying at actually had a child/baby monitoring service, which they decided to ignore and just leave these children alone, it's not as of they never had choices. and as for the class issue, how many people in the same predicament manage an audience with the pope and not forgetting the incredible expense to tax payers of the UK police enquiry, I cannot recall a similar case where either of those two have previously issues occurred, class is an issue here no doubt about it. Yes they are paying the ultimate price a burden they brought upon themselves by their complete selfishness. I don't disagree with any of this post, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the point? I understand it's pretty unusual and incredible how this is still being investigated and portrayed in the media, and that may well be a class issue, but the original point was regarding why they weren't investigated initially, which I don't believe has any class relation whatsoever. Apart from that I agree with what you say, but I would add that a) as a taxpayer I personally am happy to be paying for the Met to continue investigating this and b) it was complete selfishness, but even that does not mean you deserve to have your kid taken away from you, though you weren't necessarily insinuating that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm fully aware of what neglect means ffs . The legal offence however is somewhat different, and refers more to neglect with regard to medical aid and nutrition. I agree that legal definition of neglect means that they cannot be prosecuted, however the fact is in some abuse/neglect cases it is often claimed that the parents lacked the intellect or parenting skills to fulfill that responsibility and often based on evidence from............doctors. I don't disagree with any of this post, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the point? I understand it's pretty unusual and incredible how this is still being investigated and portrayed in the media, and that may well be a class issue, but the original point was regarding why they weren't investigated initially, which I don't believe has any class relation whatsoever. Apart from that I agree with what you say, but I would add that a) as a taxpayer I personally am happy to be paying for the Met to continue investigating this and b) it was complete selfishness, but even that does not mean you deserve to have your kid taken away from you, though you weren't necessarily insinuating that. and neither do I, but I wonder how many have or ever will be afforded that privilege?. it was worse than selfishness bearing in mind Madeline's plea to her parents that night it was callous selfishness, nothing or nobody was going to interfere with their holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Zero sympathy for the Mccanns. They disgust me with their care free attitude towards their kids. I wouldn't pop to my mums house 5 doors away with my kids left alone let alone go out for dinner in a foreign country. Madeline Mccann deserved better parents than those two, they should have had their remaining kids taken away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 My main gripe is that if this hadn't been a couple who were well educated and/or white, there would have been an investigation into the parents "neglect" of their children. They'd left those kids every night of the holiday so far I suspect, and someone had seen what they were doing, and saw their chance. I'm sure Madeline is dead (either that or Portugal has its very own Ariel Castro) and my hope is that this might eventually prove that So true, I personally am sick to death of hearing about this one child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 So true, I personally am sick to death of hearing about this one child. +1 50 posts on here as well ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Zero sympathy for the Mccanns. They disgust me with their care free attitude towards their kids. I wouldn't pop to my mums house 5 doors away with my kids left alone let alone go out for dinner in a foreign country. Madeline Mccann deserved better parents than those two, they should have had their remaining kids taken away from them. And overreaction of the year goes to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 And overreaction of the year goes to... Ah yes but you admitted you are in a minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Zero sympathy for the Mccanns. They disgust me with their care free attitude towards their kids. I wouldn't pop to my mums house 5 doors away with my kids left alone let alone go out for dinner in a foreign country. Madeline Mccann deserved better parents than those two, they should have had their remaining kids taken away from them. Had they not been doctors then their remaining kids may well have been taken away from them. Were the children sedated with drugs so the parents could enjoy their carefree night out? Quite rightly in my opinion, the Portuguese Police made Mr and Mrs McCann prime suspects in all this. I still don't understand how the McCanns can be fully eliminated from the Police enquiries. Maybe they haven't been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 And overreaction of the year goes to... The British Press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markman Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Thought it was only me - sort of comforting to see a lot of people think as I do about this case as I thought I was a bit "mean" in my views It is kind of like a car accident in that you have to look when new stuff comes up - but I looked last night and this "revelatory new evidence" seemed to end with me thinking we are looking for a Fair Haired Man (or men), A Brown Haired Man, A Black Haired Man and an identikit of the same man that looked so unalike it was laughable - how this moved anything forward God only knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I find it incredible that they left their kids alone not because I think they would get abducted but for normal reasons a parent stays in and cares for their kids, be it on holiday or at home. What if they wake up scared, a fire, a break in etc Whilst I find it difficult to say they deserve it I think they shoulder a huge amount of blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I find it incredible that they left their kids alone not because I think they would get abducted but for normal reasons a parent stays in and cares for their kids, be it on holiday or at home. What if they wake up scared, a fire, a break in etc Whilst I find it difficult to say they deserve it I think they shoulder a huge amount of blame. This was totally standard when I was a kid. Butlins would announce over the tannoy "Baby crying in chalet number.." in the bar. This recent obsession with continually watching over your kids seems to have sprung from nowhere in the last twenty years, in this respect the McCanns are following thousands of years of human history in thinking they can leave sleeping children unattended. They were incredibly unlucky but they were not neglectful. What if a Russian satellite crashes through the roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markman Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 This was totally standard when I was a kid. Butlins would announce over the tannoy "Baby crying in chalet number.." in the bar. This recent obsession with continually watching over your kids seems to have sprung from nowhere in the last twenty years, in this respect the McCanns are following thousands of years of human history in thinking they can leave sleeping children unattended. They were incredibly unlucky but they were not neglectful. What if a Russian satellite crashes through the roof? Not sure about this - they said the night before Maddie asked where they were when the twins were crying - yet they still went out the next few nights - very odd - I went to Butlins and can't remember being left totally alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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