East End Stewards & Flags: Meeting

[EnclosureSurge]

That's too diplomatic WTMS

 

No, I disagree: knowing him as I do, he's actually trying to engage in the conversation whilst retaining a modicum of tact, discipline and thought.

 

Something lost in this post for a while...

 

Are there special force stewards trained in flag restraining tactics hidden under the netting now if any stray outside the yellow marked flag waving zone?

 

Anybody else got any more hilarious juxtapositions of a high-ranking authority figure, an inanimate object from the EE and an area of one of the terraces that they can mash together for a riotous laugh?

 

No, me neither. Shall we all agree to agree that this gag has been done now.

 

I started by relaying a message, asking not to be shot. I got shot (fair enough - that's a forum for you) and now we've all taken it to the nth degree by saying what next...? Permission to breathe, licence to scratch my ars*, passport to blah blah bloody blah.

 

Flippin' 'eck. I preferred it when me & Barrs Court were locking horns.

[EnclosureSurge]

This club - as well as being totally adrift in the 3rd tier of English football - is way behind the times and the big clubs with regard to allowing supporter flags.

 

Liverpool flags....

 

 

Arsenal flags.....

 

 

Chelsea flags....

 

An excellent point - actually moving the debate on!! And not attacking the OP.

 

Unfortunately, just as individual local councils have different council tax rates, different regs on public transport and parking etc, so they do on sporting stadia.

 

We all know what we think of Bristol City Council, so whilst other councils may allow flags of these size and number, our council, well, you know the rest.

 

Just the same abroad, so unfortunately saying that Borussia Dortmund (I think someone mentioned them) have loads of flags and standing etc is just because, well, they're in a different country basically, so a completely different set of rules, by-laws etc.

 

That doesn't excuse our club from 'reneging' on previous deals, as I am reminded herewithin - this is the downside (a massive, and at times futile, downside to those who have tried for years to get such things going in the EE).

 

I can't think of many clubs at our level who do have flags, though.

 

I appreciate many people's frustration at both the club's awful relationship with the fans and at being constricted by these seemingly irrelevant, arcane and pointless rules about when you can do what...

 

But maybe we should be aiming some of our ire at the mindless idiots from the 70s and 80s who gave our nation's game such an abysmal name and herded in these draconian measures. With the onset of the Prem League and anti-hooligan laws, we lost the right to do what we wanted inside the ground.

 

Yes the club act like ars*s, but it goes back further and wider than simply that.

 

Those ********* idiots from years back have left us sat in seats (unless you're in the EE, of course, and you have the correct permit to stand), paying over the odds and refrained from spontaneously doing much of what we want.

 

Good point Red Goblin, and cheers for moving the conversation on (hope I haven't just moved it back again?)!

[Mr Mosquito]

An excellent point - actually moving the debate on!! And not attacking the OP.

 

Good point Red Goblin, and cheers for moving the conversation on (hope I haven't just moved it back again?)!

 

Thank you Sir. I'd just like to add that Bristol is now about 30 or 40 years behind most other big cities with regard to sporting facilities in general. With regard to football, Bristol is where it was 30 years ago with one 3rd tier team and one 4th tier team. Bristol is now a true backwater with regard to its football league clubs and the heavy restrictions on flags is another facet of this fact. A great shame because the supporters who genuinely want to bring this club out of the gloom with a bit of flag waving are having their spirits mercilessly crushed by the people that run this football club.

[Mr Mosquito]

[WTMS]

An excellent point - actually moving the debate on!! And not attacking the OP.

 

Unfortunately, just as individual local councils have different council tax rates, different regs on public transport and parking etc, so they do on sporting stadia.

 

We all know what we think of Bristol City Council, so whilst other councils may allow flags of these size and number, our council, well, you know the rest.

 

Just the same abroad, so unfortunately saying that Borussia Dortmund (I think someone mentioned them) have loads of flags and standing etc is just because, well, they're in a different country basically, so a completely different set of rules, by-laws etc.

 

That doesn't excuse our club from 'reneging' on previous deals, as I am reminded herewithin - this is the downside (a massive, and at times futile, downside to those who have tried for years to get such things going in the EE).

 

I can't think of many clubs at our level who do have flags, though.

 

I appreciate many people's frustration at both the club's awful relationship with the fans and at being constricted by these seemingly irrelevant, arcane and pointless rules about when you can do what...

 

But maybe we should be aiming some of our ire at the mindless idiots from the 70s and 80s who gave our nation's game such an abysmal name and herded in these draconian measures. With the onset of the Prem League and anti-hooligan laws, we lost the right to do what we wanted inside the ground.

 

Yes the club act like ars*s, but it goes back further and wider than simply that.

 

Those ********* idiots from years back have left us sat in seats (unless you're in the EE, of course, and you have the correct permit to stand), paying over the odds and refrained from spontaneously doing much of what we want.

 

Good point Red Goblin, and cheers for moving the conversation on (hope I haven't just moved it back again?)!

 

Sorry fella Wrong again.

 

There are clubs at every level who allow more than four flags - two at the back, and in differing sports. It is BCFC who make up their own rules regarding the flags in question. These arrangements/rules alter depending on the view of each new individual responsible for safety. 

 

I would suggest if individuals are going to take it up themselves to represent others they establish a factual narrative. The above was requested to do so and chooses not to. The above was also asked to use WTMS forum  to establish a factual narrative with those who bought the flags in question, this hasn't happened.

 

Saturday there was another miscommunication. After taking time to put flags out. Flags were then moved off the no smoking signs. The same no smoking signs we had been told could be covered this season previously (Dave L).

 

 

There is a website here for this topics purpose. 

 

These miscommunications could be answered without yet more meetings, taking time off work etc. Do you really have to attend a meeting like schoolchildren to be told how many flags you can use? 

[EnclosureSurge]

Now you are saying the council are banning flags, not the club?

 

Why meet with the club then?

 

You are not explaining this well. By this logic this is why we have so many stewards and daft division netting - are you trying to tell us the new "flag furore" is actually Council driven, not BCFC.

 

Why on earth is anyone even bothering to "talk". Just wave the bloody things. If they try to take them away, I would suggest the club would be laughed at all over the world!

And if they do - so frickin what. Clubs loss.

We should really decide what we want at AG - EU style thought police or Football.

If its the latter - speak with your wallets.

Don't buy the merchandise there, don't buy the food and drink - support the generous local pubs that are doing what makes football a great day out. Get there at 2.55. The club HAVE to resort to "Quick, open the bloody gates - heath and safety" - play by their rules. They have already show utter panic about getting this fixed so turn up late and you will get your flags.

Just play the game your way, not turn up at meetings like a kicked puppy looking for left-over scraps. Oh and then don't big-note yerself on here, as you saw - it doesn't work like that.

Here we bloody go again...

 

It's quite simple.

 

The govt runs the country. They pass local govt on to local councils. They set things like safety certificates and standards. Individual clubs and organisations and stadia have to abide by these.

 

No-one's banned any flags - no wonder you think I'm not explaining this well! Point to where I said, flags are banned !!

 

The simple fact is there are rules about what you can do in a stadium with a potentially dangerous object (I defy anyone to come on here and say a ten foot pole isn't a dangerous object!! I'm not saying anyone would use it thus, but again, we've got the hooligans of the 80s to thank for that. Maybe some on here are too young to remember that).

 

Don't you think there might be a rule or a regulation about bringing a gun into the EE? Stupid comparison? Don't think so. Ask Liverpool fans what they used as 'weapons' when they returned from Europe in the 80s wearing their stolen Sergio Tacchini trackies, or Leeds fans coming back from Paris in 75 when they were subsequently banned for 4 years, or Millwall fans from any game early 80s to ... whenever. 

 

That's just 3 examples off the top of me bonce. Without even thinking.

 

Legacy - that laminated A4 sheet on the turnstile door you probably walk past every Sat as you go in the EE. It says don't do this, you can do that...

 

And you're having a pop at me?!! Bleeding hell.

 

Some people seriously need a history lesson, a civic lesson and a thinking skills lesson.

 

As for Why on earth is anyone even bothering to "talk" - cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese, I refer you to all my previous comments on an anarchic EE and how far that would get us, if you've even read more than one line of one post? Let's just wave the bloody things then. next game? No flags. Kick off again? Reduced capacity in the EE. Next? No more EE in this last year we can stand there. So, you decide.

 

Riot! Let's not talk any more! Do what we want! We're all anarchists! Anarchy in the U- wait a minute the X-Factor's on, I'll join in next week, yeah?

 

F* me it's like banging your wotsit against a brick wotsit.

 

WOT'S NOT TO F* GET?!!! LET'S ALL HAVE A DISCO DOESN'T WORK!!!!!

 

Sorry, don't mean to have a go, but, honestly. Eeeee me grapes :#

[EnclosureSurge]

Sorry fella Wrong again.

 

There are clubs at every level who allow more than four flags - two at the back, and in differing sports. It is BCFC who make up their own rules regarding the flags in question. These arrangements/rules alter depending on the view of each new individual responsible for safety. 

 

I would suggest if individuals are going to take it up themselves to represent others they establish a factual narrative. The above was requested to do so and chooses not to. The above was also asked to use WTMS forum  to establish a factual narrative with those who bought the flags in question, this hasn't happened.

 

Saturday there was another miscommunication. After taking time to put flags out. Flags were then moved off the no smoking signs. The same no smoking signs we had been told could be covered this season previously (Dave L).

 

 

There is a website here for this topics purpose. 

 

These miscommunications could be answered without yet more meetings, taking time off work etc. Do you really have to attend a meeting like schoolchildren to be told how many flags you can use? 

No. But we did.

[EnclosureSurge]

No. But we did.

I'm not representing anyone. When have I said or even intimated I am? What I have said, however, is that I went along to hear what the club said rather than get it second hand as I have done till now. I can't see much wrong with that.

 

The facts presented to me - and I am sure others will argue the facts have been presented differently to them, a possible result of changing personnel - were that the restrictions in the ground are not set by the club but by local council safety rules for sporting stadia and music concerts etc.

 

Does anyone think we can have 10,000 people in one place and not have a set of fire regs for example, as some are seeming to imply by their we'll do what we want attitude. Does anyone think they could just turn up to the Fleece & Firkin for a gig or the O2 and just waltz in with whatever they want - a jet-pack, a water pistol, a firework... and no-one would say a thing?

 

Let me be clear.

 

I'm not on the club's side. I'm not even on any fan-group in the ground's side. I'm just on my side and the team's side.

 

No-one knows all the facts. No-one. No-one can. They've been told here to this person by someone at one point, told over there to someone else by someone else at a different time etc.

 

Again, zzzzzzz, I just relayed what was said.

 

If anyone thinks that's turning up like school-children, fair enough, but as PLENTY of others have messaged and posted, if anyone thinks this is daft: get down AG v Sheff U, come down the front and wave as many **** flags as you want!!! Do what you want. Act how you want. No problem.

 

I just showed an interest. Turned up. Relayed what was said.

 

What's wrong in that?

 

(Apart from the fact I keep repeating myself and boring everyone silly ad nauseum, ad infinitum, Adge Cutler; offended a few people [apologies Barrs Court and ZX559 or whatevs yr hard-to-remember name was!] and got a few things wrong - wa-hey: admittance of self-error, the first step to staying up in League One)

 

And now, to the football...

[EnclosureSurge]

Now you are saying the council are banning flags, not the club?

 

Why meet with the club then?

 

You are not explaining this well. By this logic this is why we have so many stewards and daft division netting - are you trying to tell us the new "flag furore" is actually Council driven, not BCFC.

 

Why on earth is anyone even bothering to "talk". Just wave the bloody things. If they try to take them away, I would suggest the club would be laughed at all over the world!

And if they do - so frickin what. Clubs loss.

We should really decide what we want at AG - EU style thought police or Football.

If its the latter - speak with your wallets.

Don't buy the merchandise there, don't buy the food and drink - support the generous local pubs that are doing what makes football a great day out. Get there at 2.55. The club HAVE to resort to "Quick, open the bloody gates - heath and safety" - play by their rules. They have already show utter panic about getting this fixed so turn up late and you will get your flags.

Just play the game your way, not turn up at meetings like a kicked puppy looking for left-over scraps. Oh and then don't big-note yerself on here, as you saw - it doesn't work like that.

Doesn't it? Seems to, to me!!

[EnclosureSurge]

Doesn't it? Seems to, to me!!

PS big-note. What does that mean?

[EnclosureSurge]

PS big-note. What does that mean?

Oh and then continually sending yourself replies isn't funny.

 

Like a kicked puppy.

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Robin1988]

Fair play to you Surge. The thread sums up the passive aggressive nature of BCFC fans.

 

The 'players should inspire the fans, not fans inspire the players' argument that seems to justify why AG is such a library is summed up perfectly. People would rather sit back and snipe for two pages than go out and see what they might actually do to help, all the while lauding themselves about what a great job they did back in the day.

[cider head]

Sit here doing nothing?? the magic fairies design, raise money, buy and put the flags out and away do they??

 

I have emailed the site manager (as I always do) asking when it is appropriate for the flags to be moved up and down the segregation line and going to AG in person to do this (sometimes taking time out from work to do it) who else is doing this? NO ONE ELSE!! apart from 2 people and if your all saying that I am a idiot for piping up on this thread then it's down to spending lots of time and effort for what at times is very little return (from comments in this thread)  been to more meetings that I care to remember and at times feel like I have got nowhere but still like a mug doing it, yes I don't have to but I do but by Christ it is getting tedious now.

 

Bloody hell it's flags how hard should this be?? what sort of football club is this now?

[Guest]

Sit here doing nothing?? the magic fairies design, raise money, buy and put the flags out and away do they??

 

I have emailed the site manager (as I always do) asking when it is appropriate for the flags to be moved up and down the segregation line and going to AG in person to do this (sometimes taking time out from work to do it) who else is doing this? NO ONE ELSE!! apart from 2 people and if your all saying that I am a idiot for piping up on this thread then it's down to spending lots of time and effort for what at times is very little return (from comments in this thread)  been to more meetings that I care to remember and at times feel like I have got nowhere but still like a mug doing it, yes I don't have to but I do but by Christ it is getting tedious now.

 

Bloody hell it's flags how hard should this be?? what sort of football club is this now?

  Sorry CH head and brick wall come to mind.

 

We have gone way to far down the P.C/H&S road i.m.o,  you and a few others have battled endlessly for the the rest of supporters and the clubs benefit for many years now, I can only add as well  "what sort of football club is this now"

 

The old tin shed has given me many great memories in it, for dozens of years and a few recently thanks to you and a few others  and since the 70 or so of us went back in for N.County 5-0 ? (was it, memory).

 

I am not interested in hatched areas or yellow lines myself and hate being told what to do, the EE is being slowly stabbed to death ffs please let it end, knock it down BCFC and get your New Gate Stand built a.s.a.p.

You can take the fan out of the Eastend but not the Eastend out of the fan.

 

BTW when CH speaks everyone should take note

[Mad Cyril]

[quote name="SX225" post="1914683"

We should really decide what we want at AG - EU style thought police or Football.

If its the latter - speak with your wallets.

Don't buy the merchandise there, don't buy the food and drink - support the generous local pubs that are doing what makes football a great day out. Get there at 2.55. The club HAVE to resort to "Quick, open the bloody gates - heath and safety" - play by their rules. They have already show utter panic about getting this fixed so turn up late and you will get your flags.t.

[Libertine Dream]

Not knocking the op or anyone else but someone said not many other teams at our level have flags. Can't get a link but a quick google search for Oxford utd, York city, accrington, followed by the word ultra will show some of the great displays that these lower level and smaller clubs have. In recent years when these teams were on our level Middlesbrough red faction and homesdale fanatics have some great displays aswell. I expect there is plenty more ultra groups across te country these are just ones I've seen on twitter.

[RedM]

I just had a quick look at the online megastore. The club actually sells a mega flag, 5' x 3'. So what do they expect people to do with it??? Ok it has no pole included so maybe drape only. Yes it's smaller than the flags we have already. But as I said before smaller maybe more manageable ( and cheaper). It looks bloody hard work waving a massive flag on a ten foot pole. Would the club be more accommodating if you went to them with smaller flags and therefore smaller poles. I understand why they are stating H&S but have there been incidents involving flag poles at Ashton Gate, I don't remember any?

I just want to make it clear that I am in no way belittling anyone's efforts, just saying as some of the photos on this thread shows that obviously the more flags we have the more visual and spontaneous it is. Maybe Liverpool don't need flags as they are the masters of scarf holding aren't they, that's their thing.

I'm not suggesting the Eastend buys from the club shop by the way, that defeats the whole object of uniquely designed flags.

[Red94]

I just had a quick look at the online megastore. The club actually sells a mega flag, 5' x 3'. So what do they expect people to do with it??? Ok it has no pole included so maybe drape only. Yes it's smaller than the flags we have already. But as I said before smaller maybe more manageable ( and cheaper). It looks bloody hard work waving a massive flag on a ten foot pole. Would the club be more accommodating if you went to them with smaller flags and therefore smaller poles. I understand why they are stating H&S but have there been incidents involving flag poles at Ashton Gate, I don't remember any?

I just want to make it clear that I am in no way belittling anyone's efforts, just saying as some of the photos on this thread shows that obviously the more flags we have the more visual and spontaneous it is. Maybe Liverpool don't need flags as they are the masters of scarf holding aren't they, that's their thing.

I'm not suggesting the Eastend buys from the club shop by the way, that defeats the whole object of uniquely designed flags.

So does that mean we can take flags in without poles and hold them up etc? Without getting bombarded by the stewards?

[EnclosureSurge]

Definitely a mixed message here at times.

 

Other clubs do have flags, lots of'm but mostly hung up like at the back of the EE/Atyeo. The google images appear to be perhaps one-off flag days in some cases at other clubs? (I better be careful with me facts, get the Fact Police a-knockin' on me door, or else.)

 

I was talking about flags on poles, being waved, not 'static' (!?!) ones or ones laid over netting, fire signs or no-smoking wotsits. Please no gags about flags on Poles.

 

If some people have been thinking about flags (sans poles) being waved about, let's get RIGHT on with it. I'm all for chaos with that, but I was only talking about ten foot poles. Again, please no jokes about ten foot Poles. Unless it's a reeeaaally good one.

 

And yes, apologies, SX, I think I may have been. Or just in a state of extreme coma-something or other.

 

Excellent point Mad Cyril, once again: never mind listening to CH (who obv talks sense, respect brother) but it's the past that is catching up with us. the knock-on effect of the 80s hasn't hit us that hard until now.

 

As for all the talk of the EE dying a death, that's a fair point esp from the 70 or so (and I wasn't one of them), but from my ST point of view since 2007, I reckon it's been pretty good, all in. Usually I am a pessimist, but since seats were introduced we could have totally lost any atmos we ever had. We didn't and it's been electric at times, par at others and quiet at further times.

 

To sum up: we live in a pc world (no, that's curry's) and whilst it's fun battling against that there are limits to what can be done in the name of anarchy. I'm willing to give it a try down the front though for Sheff U, so just ask for Tone. That apart, genuine respect to all those who have put loads of effort in (lots done behind the scenes, not big-noting themselves like me) cos without you it would be very quiet and dull. I don't know everything, I've just got caught in some crosswire/crossfire and look forward to a cup of Bovril with whoever may so wish at our last remaining games in the EE.

 

What say we just get behind the team?

 

You Reds! Two clean sheets and unbeaten in 4 years...!

[phantom]

 

Other clubs do have flags, lots of'm but mostly hung up like at the back of the EE/Atyeo. The google images appear to be perhaps one-off flag days in some cases at other clubs?

Surge, they aren't one off days these are fans that have the backing of their clubs to generate noise and colour

 

I am surprised that the club actually met with someone different on this topic, I know of the lads that have attended numerous meetings with the club way back before the EE was actually opened.

 

But am assuming this was arranged with the reps for the Fans Parliament from the EE?

 

 

PS, stop rambling and get to your point, I've just lost half an hour of my life reading your postings

[Rich_s]

I attend AG but don't use the EE so stop reading now if you want. I have no vested interest either way.

If I'm reading this correctly the staff at AG are only enforcing legislation laid down by the local authority so they can maintain the various health and safety certification. Local authorities interpretation can vary.

My query is what specifically does the legislation say that are guiding discussions between fans and club staff?

[Swindon8er]

You go to football and look forward to it at the weekend, to get away from all the BS you suffer in your job and daily life, looks like football is going the same way.

 

Very depressing thread in my opinion, credit to the eastend boys this season, without you lot Ashton Gate would have been a laughing stock atmosphere wise, love you're passion - 4 flags in yellow markings? speechless.

[Dave L]

Thanks very much to those supporters - ES included - who took the time and trouble to come along and have a proper face to face discussion on Saturday. We achieved more in fifteen minutes than any amount of anonymous accusations and counter accusations on an internet forum will ever do.

 

I'd like to try and clarify a few points if I can.

 

• The local safety authority are responsible for making sure that all aspects of current government legislation are enforced.
• They make regular inspections of the ground, announced and unannounced, and we have to make sure that we are fully compliant with the regulations.
• We don't make the rules, but we do have to abide by them. If we don't, then we run the risk of having capacity reduced in certain areas of the ground, or even stands closed.
• Nobody at City wants that to happen.
• The yellow hatched area at the back of the EE is a designated emergency exit route. As such it has to be kept clear at all times.
• That's why we need to restrict the number of large flags waved in that hatched area during the game
• We welcome the colour and the atmosphere that the EE brings to the ground, but we cannot allow a free for all. The 70's were the 70's, and like it or not, we live in a very different world now. To re-iterate - we don't make the rules, but we do have to abide by them.
• We would welcome smaller flags such as shown in some of the photos. In fact, this was discussed at the meeting on Saturday and I'm surprised it's not been raised. We agreed that they would be fine as long as they had a suitable plastic pole, and one of the fans who came to the meeting was going to look into it and get back to us.
• Personally I think a whole end of flags being waved would look great, and we're happy to work with fans to see how that can be achieved.
• As I have said a hundred times before, I am always available to discuss any aspect of the football club and how it's run. Call me on 0117 963 0683. Email me at david.lloyd@bcfc.co.uk. Come and find me on a matchday. I am now based in the sales office in the Williams Car Park, so come and have a chat if you are around during the week. I will be in the away end at Tranmere on Saturday - come and say hello.

COYR

[Jordan Tansley]

This club - as well as being totally adrift in the 3rd tier of English football - is way behind the times and the big clubs with regard to allowing supporter flags.

Liverpool flags....

Arsenal flags.....

Chelsea flags....

'Pool fans aren't allowed to wave those flags during a match though.

[Swindon8er]

Is it me though or is common sense never involved in rules? They say they are blocking a fire exit, but if a fire broke out they wouldn't keep standing there waving the flags it would be clear1?

[Dave L]

Not this forum. There are others. Been invited many times over the last few years but doesn't bother.

 

 

Unbelievable comment. I take it you are the same kevinmabbuuttshair that had as his signature on Ziderheads 'David Lloyd is a c*** (no asterisks)? I then contacted you - in May - and offered to meet up for a chat and discuss why you thought that and to see if we could find some common ground. You declined, presumably because you're happier having anonymous pops at me from the safety of your keyboard.  So having already established that you are a troll and a coward, you are now proved to be a liar as well.

 

I am always happy to debate with anyone, and I will take any fair criticism on the chin, but I will not stand by and let people get away with posting rubbish like this.

[phantom]

Thanks very much to those supporters - ES included - who took the time and trouble to come along and have a proper face to face discussion on Saturday. We achieved more in fifteen minutes than any amount of anonymous accusations and counter accusations on an internet forum will ever do.

 

 

Just out of interest, were those people that had numerous meetings with the club about the EE and all that in it invited to this meeting?

Trying to work out who attended and how it was decided they would meet with the club?

[phantom]

'Pool fans aren't allowed to wave those flags during a match though.

 

Don't they get waved when Liverpool score?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Don't they get waved when Liverpool score?

 

Arsenal started doing that now, as soon as they score.. a couple of people wave these huge flags behind the goal.

[phantom]

 

I am always happy to debate with anyone, and I will take any fair criticism on the chin, but I will not stand by and let people get away with posting rubbish like this.

 

Without wanting to get caught up between you guys, the thing that I find personally frustrating is that you will reply to a post (like this) but then see nothing for another week ten days.

 

Is there a way an "Ask Dave" section could be set up on here (maybe Ziderheads pushing it to far), so people can ask questions AND get replies with fact rather than 20 people going off on a tangent and the facts getting muddled like Chinese Whispers.

 

Going from personal experience, maybe with the SC/ST, knowing how succesful they have been in the past could something be set up in one of the local pubs etc again?