Robin1988 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Can you articulate what the dangerous effects have been of involving fans in kit selection and design in the past at Bristol City, and at the involvement of fans at too numerous to mention clubs in all four divisions? I'd give it a try, but I haven't said and don't believe it's dangerous. Do you have trouble reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'd give it a try, but I haven't said and don't believe it's dangerous. Do you have trouble reading? "It's a dangerous game this. Give an inch and people want a mile". What is dangerous about involving fans in kit design? What have been the negative effects at BCFC and other clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 "It's a dangerous game this. Give an inch and people want a mile". What is dangerous about involving fans in kit design? What have been the negative effects at BCFC and other clubs?It's not dangerous, that'll be why I haven't suggested it was. However, there's a lot of comments in this thread criticising that fans might not be involved closely every year; had this year's kits not gone through this route, it would be a different picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 In this case think the club has it's head firmly up it's own ass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 It's not dangerous, that'll be why I haven't suggested it was. However, there's a lot of comments in this thread criticising that fans might not be involved closely every year; had this year's kits not gone through this route, it would be a different picture. What was the dangerous game? Why shouldn't fans be involved in the kit design of what is supposed to be their club? What are the cons? Here is a pro - BCFC/BS were not loathe to use the above as a marketing narrative for this season kit. That story attached to the kit was deemed only to be of benefit by BCFC/BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 This is absolutely pathetic. This club literally cannot be serious can it? It has the most positive atmosphere within the support base in a decade and its scoring ridiculous and frankly thick own goals like this. I actually think Dave's tenure as 'fans liason officer' should end now. He's not interested in us, but the club and boards views. This position should be chosen by the fans as it is for the fans. Frankly, after his big 'olive branch' he's failed miserably. He's nothing but a mouth piece for the board. Not necessarily how fault, and he is certainly a very nice man. Just not got the correct priorities for the job he is meant to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 This is absolutely pathetic. This club literally cannot be serious can it? It has the most positive atmosphere within the support base in a decade and its scoring ridiculous and frankly thick own goals like this. I actually think Dave's tenure as 'fans liason officer' should end now. He's not interested in us, but the club and boards views. This position should be chosen by the fans as it is for the fans. Frankly, after his big 'olive branch' he's failed miserably. He's nothing but a mouth piece for the board. Not necessarily how fault, and he is certainly a very nice man. Just not got the correct priorities for the job he is meant to have.Whilst the club pay his salary he's not going to be too disruptive, is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Whilst the club pay his salary he's not going to be too disruptive, is he? Then his title should be changed to something more realistic 'Board spokesperson' might be sufficient. Liaison officer he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 What was the dangerous game? Why shouldn't fans be involved in the kit design of what is supposed to be their club? What are the cons? Here is a pro - BCFC/BS were not loathe to use the above as a marketing narrative for this season kit. That story attached to the kit was deemed only to be of benefit by BCFC/BS. Not really the point; whether they should or shouldn't, had it not happened this year, it not happening wouldn't be a big issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I actually think Dave's tenure as 'fans liason officer' should end now. He's not interested in us, but the club and boards views. This position should be chosen by the fans as it is for the fans Why should it? I demand to vote for the public relations staff at ASDA. After all, I shop there and they are there 'for the shoppers'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Then his title should be changed to something more realistic 'Board spokesperson' might be sufficient. Liaison officer he is not.'Human Shit Shield' is a suitable title. I think it's like this: The club want to give the impression that our opinions matter, and to an extent our views do matter and they know it. Where our collective view is acceptable to them, it is accommodated. Where our collective/or minority view is not acceptable to them, it is not accommodated. Dave is merely the communication line in that. He also does a lot of the supporter-specific stuff as witnessed at h/t on match day, community requests etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Why should it? I demand to vote for the public relations staff at ASDA. After all, I shop there and they are there 'for the shoppers'. I don't think that's the best example to use but understand your point. I think at a football club it is acceptable for the position to be voted for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I don't think that's the best example to use but understand your point. I think at a football club it is acceptable for the position to be voted for Both are essentially the same role, serving money-spending customers. City is a business, like it or not, they can employ who they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Not really the point; whether they should or shouldn't, had it not happened this year, it not happening wouldn't be a big issue. Consultation has been a topic for a significant period of seasons prior to the selection of this seasons kit. The club liaison addressed the topic here - http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/151327-your-views-response/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Both are essentially the same role, serving money-spending customers. City is a business, like it or not, they can employ who they want.You're wrong. Bristol City is an asset of the community in the same way that the Suspension Bridge or the Downs is. It warrants community protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 You're wrong. Bristol City is an asset of the community in the same way that the Suspension Bridge or the Downs is. It warrants community protection. The supporters club and trust are in the process of trying to register it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Both are essentially the same role, serving money-spending customers. City is a business, like it or not, they can employ who they want. The large factor seperating a football club from a supermarket is that it is part of the community and has emotional attachment whilst being a business. If I was unhappy with asda Id go to Tesco. Not the same here, I wouldn't support rovers or Yeovil if unhappy with City. they are radically different types of business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 The large factor seperating a football club from a supermarket is that it is part of the community and has emotional attachment whilst being a business. If I was unhappy with asda Id go to Tesco. Not the same here, I wouldn't support rovers or Yeovil if unhappy with City. they are radically different types of business Having an emotional attachment and dictating who is employed by the club are a gulf apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 communication or cooperation which facilitates a close working relationship between people or organizations. It's not dictating employees, it's communicating who we want to cooperate with the board. Hence... liaison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 communication or cooperation which facilitates a close working relationship between people or organizations. It's not dictating employees, it's communicating who we want to cooperate with the board. Hence... liaison. Well that's something entirely different and I don't disagree. But it's not what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Having an emotional attachment and dictating who is employed by the club are a gulf apart It feels a bit like you are disagreeing for the sake of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well that's something entirely different and I don't disagree. But it's not what you said. http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/165169-club-kit-and-colours/ This highlights that the club liaison is not always working closely with fans, or has not been allowed to be. The last response is from a member of the Supporters Club and Trust, and the Fans Advisory Network. The Fans Advisory Network is chaired by Dave L. If Dave L was working closely with either the Supporters Club and Trust, or the Fans Advisory Network there would have been no "surpise". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Here we are Top of the League! We are selling out the stadium, people are buying shirts in various colours in huge numbers and I read that due to someone spilling the beans about the design or element of one of our shirts the club no longer wants early input from the very people who are going to buy the god damn things. Did Prada knock it off, did DG take production to China, did Adidas get wind and invoke a clause that disallowed the club from taking the business away as they had been complete crap!? Who the hell knows! So what do I read into the Statement made on behalf of the club! Dear All, you know that shirt we want you to buy, ( well we actually want you to buy a home and away for yourself...fatty...plus the same for all your horrible little sproggs that happen to be the paying customers of the future, that you have blinded to common sense and told them they will go to hell if they don't support City) we don't want your input anymore because one/two of you pissed someone off in marketing. Many thanks for buying the Purple shirt until we had none left, it was a great idea of yours, but please allow us to know what's best for you sad little people in future! Best Wishes on behalf of BCFC. XXXX X NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 However, there's a lot of comments in this thread criticising that fans might not be involved closely every year; had this year's kits not gone through this route, it would be a different picture. Nay ... When City had the Adidas bog roll arm kit and the star trek kit fans were saying similar .. Fakt. Then the sketch rolled out was fans could not be involved as it was contractual. No excuse now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Well that's something entirely different and I don't disagree. But it's not what you said. No it's not different at all. That is the definition of Liaison. David is either failing in that role, or his job description is not compliant with the definition of liaison in which case he should have it changed. A fans liaison officer should be chosen by the fans. I have never been given the option to declare that David is fit to represent me, or liaise on my behalf. He is the boards liaison officer. Not mine. Whether or not the club pay his wages is irrelevant, too. If his job is to ensure communication and cooperation then he should do that. Standing up to the club when they are making a howler should pretty much be the be all and end all of such a position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 No it's not different at all. That is the definition of Liaison. David is either failing in that role, or his job description is not compliant with the definition of liaison in which case he should have it changed. A fans liaison officer should be chosen by the fans. I have never been given the option to declare that David is fit to represent me, or liaise on my behalf. He is the boards liaison officer. Not mine. Whether or not the club pay his wages is irrelevant, too. If his job is to ensure communication and cooperation then he should do that. Standing up to the club when they are making a howler should pretty much be the be all and end all of such a position. A fans liaison would have already been more proactive beyond "the leak!", explaining what the consequences were as soon as "the leak" occurred, what the benefits of not having fans involved in the kit design of their club are, and acting as a go between fans and club. Dave L is obviously not being allowed to focus on solutions. Its a pity that obvious marginal improvements fans cannot be explored here with supporters via their "fans" liaison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 No it's not different at all. That is the definition of Liaison. David is either failing in that role, or his job description is not compliant with the definition of liaison in which case he should have it changed. A fans liaison officer should be chosen by the fans. I have never been given the option to declare that David is fit to represent me, or liaise on my behalf. He is the boards liaison officer. Not mine. Whether or not the club pay his wages is irrelevant, too. If his job is to ensure communication and cooperation then he should do that. Standing up to the club when they are making a howler should pretty much be the be all and end all of such a position.He's the board's liaison officer with the fans, no shit. They employed him and pay his wages. It's liason WITH fans [or not as it is with this issue], so of course that's what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 He's the board's liaison officer with the fans, no shit. They employed him and pay his wages. It's liason WITH fans [or not as it is with this issue], so of course that's what it is. That is a baffling mixture of words, BUT what does it really mean? I dunno. What I do know is that this Dave L coves job description mentions Fan Liaison and so he could explain a little more about Leakgate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 That is a baffling mixture of words, BUT what does it really mean? I dunno. What I do know is that this Dave L coves job description mentions Fan Liaison and so he could explain a little more about Leakgate. He won't. We'll get some more patronising bullshit like every other time Dave's authority is questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Standing up to the club when they are making a howler should pretty much be the be all and end all of such a position. Sounds like the role of the fans representative rather than a liaison officer. Surely a liaison officer is a channel of communication? Isn't standing up to the club supposed to be what the Supporters Trust is all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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