Mike Litoris Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Sounds like the role of the fans representative rather than a liaison officer. Surely a liaison officer is a channel of communication? Isn't standing up to the club supposed to be what the Supporters Trust is all about? Well, nobody was communicated with on this, so clearly Dave must have been the last port of call for the board on this decision. I pray to god that when he read/was told of this ridiculous decision that he questioned it. Otherwise, what exactly is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Mods and admin can edit/remove anyone's posts yes. Why? http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/165169-club-kit-and-colours/ Will the "leak" above and BS / BCFC's decision be addressed by the Supporters club and trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 7, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/165169-club-kit-and-colours/ Will the "leak" above and BS / BCFC's decision be addressed by the Supporters club and trust? Would be intrigued what the "leak" was, many of us were on all the time on here about what the kit was to look like and people that were at the meeting consistently said they were not allowed to let anything out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/165169-club-kit-and-colours/ Will the "leak" above and BS / BCFC's decision be addressed by the Supporters club and trust? I have mentioned this to thatcham red (SC&T chair) for clarification, because as far as I was concerned, nothing about the leak had been mentioned before, nor had it been brought up at any FAN meeting since. Would be intrigued what the "leak" was, many of us were on all the time on here about what the kit was to look like and people that were at the meeting consistently said they were not allowed to let anything out Which was my point. I do not know of anybody in the room that evening who then "leaked" anything, hence my surprise at Dave L's comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Fans Advisory Network members. Will individuals who take part be discussing with BS/BCFC and Dave L why you are being held responsible [unfairly!], for the wider supporter base no longer having the same level of access to the kit decision-making process in future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset Red Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 The only bit of fan involvement they are concerned with is us buying the stuff they think we should be wearing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 The club's obsession with secrecy around topics best served by transparency is continually baffling. The design and quality of the kit will affect sales far more than some bollocks marketing drip feed publicity that serves only to annoy, and the fans input will improve the design immensely. Yeah, don't share commercially sensitive stuff, obviously. This isn't it though. Why can't we have people at the club that actually understand fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Fine. So why do you believe he thinks any different now? You seem to have a personal vendetta against him. In fact you complain about a lot! Ah that old chestnut. Why does criticism always get met with such a response? I think critical people clearly want what's best for the club in all situations and demand improvement... What exactly is wrong with that? What is wrong with not accepting failure, mediocrity and ineptitude? What is wrong with questioning bad decisions? I'd love to hear a decent answer to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I notice on the q & a page another posted asked a seperate question following on from mine about streaming FAN meetings. their question asked about streaming non confidential stuff as DL basically told me "no" about streaming. DL then just said "I've already answered that"; even though he hadn't actually. Without wanting this to become a witch hunt, I am pretty disappointed with him as fans liaison recently and find him a bit rude at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I notice on the q & a page another posted asked a seperate question following on from mine about streaming FAN meetings. their question asked about streaming non confidential stuff as DL basically told me "no" about streaming. DL then just said "I've already answered that"; even though he hadn't actually. Without wanting this to become a witch hunt, I am pretty disappointed with him as fans liaison recently and find him a bit rude at times. When your job is safe, why make the effort? If he was elected, or the fans had a say, he wouldn't ever be able to be rude, dismissive or petulant when criticised. I want to be clear, I think he's done plenty of good things, and having spoken to him in the past he's a very likeable person and forward with fans on a 1 to 1 level. I just feel its getting stale & comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 When your job is safe, why make the effort? If he was elected, or the fans had a say, he wouldn't ever be able to be rude, dismissive or petulant when criticised. I want to be clear, I think he's done plenty of good things, and having spoken to him in the past he's a very likeable person and forward with fans on a 1 to 1 level. I just feel its getting stale & comfortable. I agree, I almost feel he's seen as beyond criticism by some but still needs to be held accountable by the group he represents.. us. I have been disappointed by some of his interactions on here actually, especially in the QandA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Fine. So why do you believe he thinks any different now? You seem to have a personal vendetta against him. In fact you complain about a lot! It is unclear what Dave thinks now as he has not shared his view. There are a lot more complaints on the When the Moon Shines forum going back years from numerous posters. There is also a consistent theme present regarding the manner the club communicates with supporters. This topic highlights that theme again. A reaction to this theme is that fans who once actively involved themselves in fan / club initiatives are ceasing to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Fine. So why do you believe he thinks any different now? You seem to have a personal vendetta against him. In fact you complain about a lot! It is unclear what you are seeking to defend. Do you agree with the response of Bristol City, or BS, or both months after fans on a consultative supporter group revealed a shirt was red with a collar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 It is unclear what you are seeking to defend. Do you agree with the response of Bristol City, or BS, or both months after fans on a consultative supporter group revealed a shirt was red with a collar? No I don't particularly agree with the club's response. If they wanted a big surprise launch then they should have taken on board everybody's comments and wishes, then designed the shirt and not shown it to anyone until the launch date. If they start leaking information about it to anyone it will dribble out, so they should draw up a marketing launch that copes with that. But so long as the shirt is red and the shorts are white, I couldn't give a tinkers cuss whether it is retro, skin tight, nylon, cotton or whatever. If pushed I suppose I would like it to be wherever the leading edge of fashion is, in the same way that I would like the stadium to be a cutting edge design. However there is a risk that takes people out of their comfort zone. Asking for input from fans may throw up some new ideas, but people will ask for what they know, not what they don't know and so everything may be a bit safe. As for what I am defending, I think the abuse and criticism DaveL has received over this is completely unwarranted. He is the Liaison Officer which means he is the primary channel of communication between the fans and the club, he is not the fans champion. If, as a fan, I have a query over ticketing, stewarding, the stadium design and, yes, the shirt design I can ask Dave about it. I don't have to go floundering about trying to find the person in BCFC or BS who deals with whatever my issue is. He will know who deals with it and get a response for me and he seems pretty good at doing that and the Q&A section set up on here has made it even easier. Whether I, you or anyone else likes the answer or not is another matter, but it is not Dave's opinion he gives out, it is the club's response. Dave may agree with it or he may not, that is irrelevant. When the answer, from the club, is one such as has been received to the shirt enquiry feelings are such that it merits further quizzing and discussion - but isn't that what the FAN is for? It certainly doesn't merit abusing and criticising Dave for passing the response on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Your last question would be almost impossible for the club to answer. They could not unequivocally state that the match will not be moved. The only thing they can say is that they won't be moving it, which we all know to be the case as the last day of the season all matches are played at the same time so the only people that might move it would be the Football League. The question mentions probability. High chance = Think of alternatives, don't risk anything financial. Low = Serious thought can begin now. A 24hr difference does not have to be problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 The question mentions probability. High chance = Think of alternatives, don't risk anything financial. Low = Serious thought can begin now. True enough, but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. You should be asking the question of the Football League, because by asking Bristol City you are merely setting them up as a scapegoat should anything go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 True enough, but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. You should be asking the question of the Football League, because by asking Bristol City you are merely setting them up as a scapegoat should anything go wrong. Bristol City can also apply to alter their fixtures themselves. Setting them up? Scapegoats? All that is being asked for is information on a "possible" fixture inconvenience around a fans event nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 8, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 True enough, but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. You should be asking the question of the Football League, because by asking Bristol City you are merely setting them up as a scapegoat should anything go wrong. Bristol City can also apply to alter their fixtures themselves. Setting them up? Scapegoats? All that is being asked for is information on a "possible" fixture inconvenience around a fans event nothing more. Of course in this instance being the last game of the season BCFC won't have any say in moving their fixture away from the rest of the league. Pretty sure that no games are shown on the last day of the season from League 1, only the Championship have this delight. So apart from being moved to a different time slot I believe it is 99% sure that the Walsall game will be played on that date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 No I don't particularly agree with the club's response. If they wanted a big surprise launch then they should have taken on board everybody's comments and wishes, then designed the shirt and not shown it to anyone until the launch date. If they start leaking information about it to anyone it will dribble out, so they should draw up a marketing launch that copes with that. But so long as the shirt is red and the shorts are white, I couldn't give a tinkers cuss whether it is retro, skin tight, nylon, cotton or whatever. If pushed I suppose I would like it to be wherever the leading edge of fashion is, in the same way that I would like the stadium to be a cutting edge design. However there is a risk that takes people out of their comfort zone. Asking for input from fans may throw up some new ideas, but people will ask for what they know, not what they don't know and so everything may be a bit safe. As for what I am defending, I think the abuse and criticism DaveL has received over this is completely unwarranted. He is the Liaison Officer which means he is the primary channel of communication between the fans and the club, he is not the fans champion. If, as a fan, I have a query over ticketing, stewarding, the stadium design and, yes, the shirt design I can ask Dave about it. I don't have to go floundering about trying to find the person in BCFC or BS who deals with whatever my issue is. He will know who deals with it and get a response for me and he seems pretty good at doing that and the Q&A section set up on here has made it even easier. Whether I, you or anyone else likes the answer or not is another matter, but it is not Dave's opinion he gives out, it is the club's response. Dave may agree with it or he may not, that is irrelevant. When the answer, from the club, is one such as has been received to the shirt enquiry feelings are such that it merits further quizzing and discussion - but isn't that what the FAN is for? It certainly doesn't merit abusing and criticising Dave for passing the response on. I broadly agree with your comment, however the problem is this! A liaison with a customer (in this case football supporters) must have the confidence of the people he is liaising with. I'm not saying that Mr. Lloyd should never deliver unpopular news, but the club should be mindful that if Mr. Lloyd is to deliver unpopular or in this case accusatorial rhetoric regarding the leaking of the colour or design of a RED SHIRT then it is Mr. Lloyd that is going to take the brunt of any backlash/negative response! If there was a problem with an individual or individuals who had something to do with the design of the shirts etc that should be dealt with by the Club and the Trust and if something was leaked the people responsible asked to stand down from that committee. This would be the way a situation like this would ordinarily be dealt with, unless the club has suffered a large revenue loss due to a leak, then clearly other more direct action would rightly be taken, up to and including possible action against individuals....Please do not miss understand me I am not saying the club should sue individuals, but those individuals if seen to be responsible should be reminded of the position they have put themselves The trust and The Club in (if a leak did actually occur) Mr. Lloyd's letter on here is petulant and unnecessary and would be seen by many as him being told what to say from authority's within the club. This lowers Mr. Lloyd's stock and damages relations across the board for no gain and as I understand it to date little tangible loss!!! Also for the record. In general I have found Mr. Lloyd to be a very nice helpful man and I appreciate the position exists....But I hope the club don't **** it up after all the hard work to get the supporters on side with the running of the club ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Very well said RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Thanks Robin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I see people currently have the option to vote on millwall's next away kit from a choice of four.... http://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/article/vote-for-millwalls-201516-away-kit-2003693.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I see people currently have the option to vote on millwall's next away kit from a choice of four....http://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/article/vote-for-millwalls-201516-away-kit-2003693.aspx I like the pink one, we could have that as a third next time. Home will always be red, away purple and lime as it's earned a place and pink as it's what you get if you mix red and white together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have mentioned this to thatcham red (SCT chair) for clarification, because as far as I was concerned, nothing about the leak had been mentioned before, nor had it been brought up at any FAN meeting since. Which was my point. I do not know of anybody in the room that evening who then "leaked" anything, hence my surprise at Dave L's comment. What was the response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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