Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well he maintains his innocence, so he wouldn't acknowledge he has done anything wrong - other than cheat on his gf and get involved in a sleazy drunken situation he now regrets. As he has been found guilty by a jury, we have to assume he is not innocent, but juries often get things wrong and I'm not going to say I have 100% confidence that this didn't happen in this case. i'm sorry RR but if that's the case as I said twice now, the legal system is not to blame in this particular case, it's his original defence team who clearly ****** up here, a team that has been sacked and another team employed and also as I said the fact that he and his co accused were incapable of getting their stories correct probably didn't help, again as I said it seems one of them was lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 i'm sorry RR but if that's the case as I said twice now, the legal system is not to blame in this particular case, it's his original defence team who clearly ****** up here, a team that has been sacked and another team employed and also as I said the fact that he and his co accused were incapable of getting their stories correct probably didn't help, again as I said it seems one of them was lying. I don't know enough about all the ins and outs of the case to make that judgement and I wasn't arguing that he is innocent Es, only that if you maintain you've been jailed in a miscarriage of justice then you are not going to be contrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I don't know enough about all the ins and outs of the case to make that judgement and I wasn't arguing that he is innocent Es, only that if you maintain you've been jailed in a miscarriage of justice then you are not going to be contrite. You seem to be saying that you are not 100% clear that there hasn't been a miscarriage of justice, IMO this case can never fall into that category because, his website appears to claim that new information has come to light that might throw the original decision into doubt, that is not a miscarriage of justice, it is appallingly bad/complacent work by his original legal team, which is clearly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 You seem to be saying that you are not 100% clear that there hasn't been a miscarriage of justice, IMO this case can never fall into that category because, his website appears to claim that new information has come to light that might throw the original decision into doubt, that is not a miscarriage of justice, it is appallingly bad/complacent work by his original legal team, which is clearly different. Either he's innocent or not, Es. If he went to prison because his legal team were shit, that's a miscarriage. I'm offering no opinion one way or the other, I haven't read enough about it, perhaps you have. I was merely commenting on why he hadn't admitted his crime. It's because he denies the girl's basic claim, that she was incapable of giving consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Either he's innocent or not, Es. If he went to prison because his legal team were shit, that's a miscarriage. I'm offering no opinion one way or the other, I haven't read enough about it, perhaps you have. I was merely commenting on why he hadn't admitted his crime. It's because he denies the girl's basic claim, that she was incapable of giving consent. Not a miscarriage by the system, the miscarriage is in the hands of the defence, the jury can only act on the evidence presented. Please remember this was pre planned, they were on the lookout for a female, Mcdonald took her back to the hotel and Evans managed to get a pass key and entered the room and the fact that Evans claimed that Mcdonald was there when she consented and Mcdonald claims that he wasn't, in fact his evidence tends to suggest a bit of self loathing by Mcdonald after the fact and he left immediately he was done by the front door and even asked the reception staff to keep an eye on her because he was concerned about her welfare, Evans by contrast made his exit via the fire escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 If it was me I'd ask the centre back to ensure he brings his daughter up as a lady, rather than the kind of girl that went to that hotel that night! Ahhhh the old she must have wanted to get raped theory..... get a grip ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Not a miscarriage by the system, the miscarriage is in the hands of the defence, the jury can only act on the evidence presented. Please remember this was pre planned, they were on the lookout for a female, Mcdonald took her back to the hotel and Evans managed to get a pass key and entered the room and the fact that Evans claimed that Mcdonald was there when she consented and Mcdonald claims that he wasn't, in fact his evidence tends to suggest a bit of self loathing by Mcdonald after the fact and he left immediately he was done by the front door and even asked the reception staff to keep an eye on her because he was concerned about her welfare, Evans by contrast made his exit via the fire escape. What I don't understand is was this girl drinking in the room after she'd had sex with MacDonald? If not, how was she sober enough to consent to him but not to Evans, later when alcohol would have started to leave her system? I've no argument with saying that what both players did was morally repugnant. That seems self-evident, as a judge would put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 CONVICTED RAPIST is the only fact. Why some people stick up for him God only Knows. I assume those that are don't have daughters, wifes or girlfriends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 It does make me laugh all this crap... the bloke has done his time...people hate him...he got put down for doing something despicable...imho, he will be aquited eventually. But non the less...as we stand, he is guilty. Yet our own Bradley Orr, Steve Brooker and Scott Partridge all went down for Drunken Brawls and violence. Orr is a hero to many on here...yet one drunken punch in the wrong place...and he could have quiet easily been done for manslaughter...it happens. Yet according to many...he's a 'Top bloke'. Don't get it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 It does make me laugh all this crap... the bloke has done his time...people hate him...he got put down for doing something despicable...imho, he will be aquited eventually. But non the less...as we stand, he is guilty. Yet our own Bradley Orr, Steve Brooker and Scott Partridge all went down for Drunken Brawls and violence. Orr is a hero to many on here...yet one drunken punch in the wrong place...and he could have quiet easily been done for manslaughter...it happens. Yet according to many...he's a 'Top bloke'. Don't get it myself. So you don't see the difference between assault & rape..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 It does make me laugh all this crap... the bloke has done his time...people hate him...he got put down for doing something despicable...imho, he will be aquited eventually. But non the less...as we stand, he is guilty. Yet our own Bradley Orr, Steve Brooker and Scott Partridge all went down for Drunken Brawls and violence. Orr is a hero to many on here...yet one drunken punch in the wrong place...and he could have quiet easily been done for manslaughter...it happens. Yet according to many...he's a 'Top bloke'. Don't get it myself. The only thing I don't get is what possessed you to write this rubbish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 What I don't understand is was this girl drinking in the room after she'd had sex with MacDonald? If not, how was she sober enough to consent to him but not to Evans, later when alcohol would have started to leave her system? I've no argument with saying that what both players did was morally repugnant. That seems self-evident, as a judge would put it. The consent was made on her agreeing to go to a hotel room with Mcdonald, statiscally the alcohol starts to leave your system fairly fast in the first couple of hours and then that slows down incredibly to a very slow rate, but the alcohol drunk is still entering the blood system as the night wears on, which is why you can have a higher reading over an hour later from the first reading and can be even higher as a night progresses and still be well over the limit the morning after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 It does make me laugh all this crap... the bloke has done his time...people hate him...he got put down for doing something despicable...imho, he will be aquited eventually. But non the less...as we stand, he is guilty. Yet our own Bradley Orr, Steve Brooker and Scott Partridge all went down for Drunken Brawls and violence. Orr is a hero to many on here...yet one drunken punch in the wrong place...and he could have quiet easily been done for manslaughter...it happens. Yet according to many...he's a 'Top bloke'. Don't get it myself. of course he ******* guilty FFS a court, a jury and to 2 failed appeals are testament to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 The consent was made on her agreeing to go to a hotel room with Mcdonald, statiscally the alcohol starts to leave your system fairly fast in the first couple of hours and then that slows down incredibly to a very slow rate, but the alcohol drunk is still entering the blood system as the night wears on, which is why you can have a higher reading over an hour later from the first reading and can be even higher as a night progresses and still be well over the limit the morning after. It will build for an hour after the last drink and then start to decline whoever you are. These cases are very difficult I would have thought for juries: without having witnessed anything and on the basis of confused and contradictory testimony from a lot of people, most of whom were drunk, they have to decide if someone was competent to consent to sex based on one word against another. And beyond all reasonable doubt. Bloody glad the juries I've served on didn't have to make such a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 If it was me I'd ask the centre back to ensure he brings his daughter up as a lady, rather than the kind of girl that went to that hotel that night! I don't even know. Like seriously? This attitude. That it's the girls fault? You are everything that is wrong with this country. You're views are why so many rape cases don't even make trial let alone get a conviction. I pray that nobody you know falls victim to this vile act. Rape is just about the most disgusting abuse of a humans basic rights and you put blame at the door of the girl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I've said this before and I'll say it again Regardless of whether he thinks he is innocent or not, in the eyes of the law if a woman is not in a fit state to consent to sex, then IT IS RAPE. The jury and the appeal judges after that were all confident having heard all the evidence that his victim was not in a fit state to consent to sex, therefore convicted him. His victim has not sold her story, she is living under her 3rd identity away from her friends and family, while Evans continues to bleat about him being the victim, Any club who choses to sign him whilst he is still bleating his innocence should hang their heads in shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 It will build for an hour after the last drink and then start to decline whoever you are. These cases are very difficult I would have thought for juries: without having witnessed anything and on the basis of confused and contradictory testimony from a lot of people, most of whom were drunk, they have to decide if someone was competent to consent to sex based on one word against another. And beyond all reasonable doubt. Bloody glad the juries I've served on didn't have to make such a decision. Not so unfortunately. http://www.breakingthecycles.com/blog/2010/02/23/why-bac-can-keep-rising-after-a-person-stops-drinking/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I don't know enough about all the ins and outs of the case to make that judgement.......... . Unfortunate choice of words in the circumstances - but strangely enough they sum up the situation for all of us, non of us know enough of the details to judge. As things stand though post court case and sentence we have no choice but to assume guilty until proven innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Unfortunate choice of words in the circumstances - but strangely enough they sum up the situation for all of us, non of us know enough of the details to judge. As things stand though post court case and sentence we have no choice but to assume guilty until proven innocent. Which I do. It's a troublesome case though and one I'm glad I didn't have to make a decision on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted November 11, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans As Red-Robbo has said, I wouldn't have liked ro make a judgement on this, it all seems to hinge on the girls ability to consent and I am not sure how anyone in the court can decide that, especially seeing as the morning after alcohol tests were not showing a high level. That said, impossible to make judgement without sitting through it all and even then it must be a tough decision making process. I can understand why he has shown no remorse, if he feels that he had consent. I am not going to judge him on his morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I've said this before and I'll say it again Regardless of whether he thinks he is innocent or not, in the eyes of the law if a woman is not in a fit state to consent to sex, then IT IS RAPE. The jury and the appeal judges after that were all confident having heard all the evidence that his victim was not in a fit state to consent to sex, therefore convicted him. His victim has not sold her story, she is living under her 3rd identity away from her friends and family, while Evans continues to bleat about him being the victim, Any club who choses to sign him whilst he is still bleating his innocence should hang their heads in shame. totally agree with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans Not screaming re-trial is it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Not so unfortunately.http://www.breakingthecycles.com/blog/2010/02/23/why-bac-can-keep-rising-after-a-person-stops-drinking/ That doesn't disprove what I've said. You metabolise about a unit per hour on average, you don't suddenly stop burning up alcohol and become more drunk hours after the last drink. If Evans appeared a few hours after she'd stopped drinking she'd have had less of an alcohol reading than shortly after she entered the room with McDonald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted November 11, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Not screaming re-trial is it... Its not black and white though is it, surely it all came down to opinion, was she in a state to consent or not and without being in the room at the time, no one can 100% judge that either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 This had nothing to do with parole boards, whatsoever, he served the time of his sentence, within the terms of the present laws of the land and as long as his prison behaviour was good, he is entitled to be released, without any intervention from parole boards or any other authority, whether he be a danger or not, whether he shows remorse or not. Parole boards are mainly full of gullible Liberals who make their decisions but safe in the knowledge that they will never have to answer for that decision when it goes wrong, because that is what Liberals do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Its not black and white though is it, surely it all came down to opinion, was she in a state to consent or not and without being in the room at the time, no one can 100% judge that either way. rightly or wrongly i trust the justice system, the jury found him guilty 12 ordinary people i'm happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted November 11, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 rightly or wrongly i trust the justice system, the jury found him guilty 12 ordinary people i'm happy with that. In general I trust the justice system, but there have been some monumental miscarriages of justice, as well as minor ones, so I like to keep an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 The apple has fallen very far from the tree Mr Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 The apple has fallen very far from the tree Mr Clough. Very true indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 That doesn't disprove what I've said. You metabolise about a unit per hour on average, you don't suddenly stop burning up alcohol and become more drunk hours after the last drink. If Evans appeared a few hours after she'd stopped drinking she'd have had less of an alcohol reading than shortly after she entered the room with McDonald. Ok i'm with you now, yes of course she is burning up the alcohol but at a very much slower rate 10% an hour or so, it would appear that in the last hour in the nightclub she necked a fairly substantial amount, so during the first hour alone with Mcdonald her blood alcohol content was still rising and pretty much the time that Evans appeared on the scene probably coincided with the height or close to the height of her intoxication. Anyway even though her intoxication was slowly going down, it doesn't follow that her cognitive state was improving in fact almost certainly the opposite, as most people who have ever been roaring drunk will testify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.