Ched Evans (Again)

[PHILINFRANCE]

What I've always thought with this case is it's surely both were guilty or neither? She was pissed when she got into the cab with McDonald, how can she be more so later on when Evans arrived? Also was the crime not reported for a number of days later, following some girl calling the girl concerned a "slag" in the street?

It's a case that as I say I'd hate to have been on a jury for. For those wanting the personal line, yes I'm the daughter of two girls and I'd pray to God they never put themselves in this position, but also I have picked up women in a club and slept with them when we've both been drunk. Where would I have stood if one regretted it later and said "I was to drunk to consent"?

At the end of the day, I feel the same as those who say, regardless of guilt or innocence, he's done his time. He has as much right to earn a living as - say - a bricklayer who has done similar.

I also am glad our club is not involved in all this.

 

Obviously a typo, but I know what you mean. I am also the father of two girls, both of whom are 'sensible' and, as their father, I just know they would never put themselves in such a position.

 

Like you, however, many years ago when I was single it was quite a frequent occurrence to 'pick up' a girl in a pub or night club and, both of us under the influence, to have sexual intercourse; the typical one-night stand. 

 

I truly believe, however, that the fact we were both under the influence, in a genuine if extremely short-lived relationship and there being no suggestion that I had taken advantage of her intoxicated condition, I was not (and never have been) guilty of rape. 

 

Notwithstanding the extremely sordid circumstances of CE's evening (it would seem that he indulged straight after his friend), I think a further incriminating factor was the fact that he was (relatively?) sober and, surely, was simply taking advantage of her intoxicated state - somewhat different to the two youngsters who have both had too much to drink and regret their actions the following morning.   

[Dollymarie]

What I've always thought with this case is it's surely both were guilty or neither? She was pissed when she got into the cab with McDonald, how can she be more so later on when Evans arrived?

I am guessing because she had willingly gone with McDonald, the jury felt they didn't have sufficient evidence to prove the rape conviction, whereas Evans showed up after they had had sex, and hadn't been the one who took her back to the hotel.

[Super]

fair play to her

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2830992/Sheffield-United-patron-Charlie-Webster-resigns-club-role-protest-decision-allow-convicted-rapist-Ched-Evans-return-training.html

[westred1]

fair play to her

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2830992/Sheffield-United-patron-Charlie-Webster-resigns-club-role-protest-decision-allow-convicted-rapist-Ched-Evans-return-training.html

You say that but she once tweeted:

"Just bumped into Mike Tyson in the hotel lobby as I was randomly talking about him! I chickened out on asking for a photo... Damn ;-)"

She has very strong views on Ched Evans' case and that's fair enough, and fair play to her for resigning but slightly hypocritical to tweet almost admiration for someone with the same conviction?

[spudski]

You say that but she once tweeted:

"Just bumped into Mike Tyson in the hotel lobby as I was randomly talking about him! I chickened out on asking for a photo... Damn ;-)"

She has very strong views on Ched Evans' case and that's fair enough, and fair play to her for resigning but slightly hypocritical to tweet almost admiration for someone with the same conviction?

Exactly... it's all been taken out of proportion by the media.

Tyson still gets treated like a Legend...as do many others that have been in Evans situation.

Take Jimmy Page and Led Zep for example... Gods to many... but hey 'screwing 14 year olds is so rock n roll... give me a break...you have to just roll your eyes and laugh at how inconsistent law is and how people jump on a band wagon

[Red-Robbo]

Obviously a typo, but I know what you mean. I am also the father of two girls, both of whom are 'sensible' and, as their father, I just know they would never put themselves in such a position.

Like you, however, many years ago when I was single it was quite a frequent occurrence to 'pick up' a girl in a pub or night club and, both of us under the influence, to have sexual intercourse; the typical one-night stand.

I truly believe, however, that the fact we were both under the influence, in a genuine if extremely short-lived relationship and there being no suggestion that I had taken advantage of her intoxicated condition, I was not (and never have been) guilty of rape.

Notwithstanding the extremely sordid circumstances of CE's evening (it would seem that he indulged straight after his friend), I think a further incriminating factor was the fact that he was (relatively?) sober and, surely, was simply taking advantage of her intoxicated state - somewhat different to the two youngsters who have both had too much to drink and regret their actions the following morning.

I think he claims to be drunk as well. Didn't his brother drive him to the hotel?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

I would rather BCFC not sign any convicted criminal.

 

The Ched Evans situation is now fast becoming the subject of mob rule and mass hypocracy. Charlie Webster is as bad as anyone on this- I heard her interview yesterday- she said if he signed a contract- she would resign but then resigned anyway. The cynic in me wonders how much of this is to do with a blaze of publicity. She did indeed tweet her lost Mike Tyson photo opportunity for which she says she is not proud. Despicable hypocrite.

 

If one of my mates goes for a walk through St Pauls at 2;00 a.m. wearing his new bling Rolex and gets mugged or wears a football top and walks alone through the City centre at 1.00 a.m. after a Saturday and gets beaten up- it doesn't make the crime ok but I am allowed to say- "well- you were sort of a bit stupid and you should know better than to put yourself in harms way". No one is going to vilify me and most would agree.

 

But if I dare said to my female friend , Well if you get legless on a cocktail of coke and booze and then............

 

No crime is justifiable crime but this whole thing has lost any sense of proportion or equity

[Red-Robbo]

I am guessing because she had willingly gone with McDonald, the jury felt they didn't have sufficient evidence to prove the rape conviction, whereas Evans showed up after they had had sex, and hadn't been the one who took her back to the hotel.

But my point Dolls was she'd have had more alcohol in her bloodstream when she met McDonald whatever she told him. She'd have been slightly more sober when Evans appeared.

Whatever the facts I'm readily admitting I haven't followed every intricate twist and turn of the case and AFAIC he's guilty as that is what the jury - who had heard more - found him.

But if you accept Lee Hughes - who left a man to die - can play football after he's served his time, then you have to accept Ched Evans can.

As Nibor said though, I wouldn't want him at my club though.

[Dollymarie]

I wouldn't want anyone convicted of a serious crime at my club playing.

[spudski]

I wouldn't want anyone convicted of a serious crime at my club playing.

You didn't want Brooker or Orr here when they played?

[WTFiGO!?!]

So now being mugged in the street is on a level with being raped? That because one person shows hypocrisy re Mike Tyson the rest of us are band-wagon jumpers for suggesting Ched Evans should be denighed his previously privileged life? That a mutual passing of ships in an alcohol heavy environment is the same as calculated rape? - the judge and dury didn't agree.

This is from usually sensible posters. Think City need to lose so a sense of normality and sanity can return.

[Monkeh]

You didn't want Brooker or Orr here when they played?

I personally think the crime has to be taken into account and whether remorse is generally shown,

In Brooker and Orr's case there was a great deal of remorse,

In Evans case there isn't,  if it get overturned on appeal what he did was still very wrong in my eyes,

[cidered abroad]

Rape is in some ways, worse than murder because a murder victim does not have to live the rest of their life with the memory of the abuse.

My first wife was raped at the age of eight by her father and it haunted her until she decided at the age of fifty four to end it.

Mr Evans has served his time and is now entitled to find work and continue his life. But surely natural justice says not as a high profile, well paid professional footballer. Unpaid charity work would be more suited?

[Monkeh]

Rape is in some ways, worse than murder because a murder victim does not have to live the rest of their life with the memory of the abuse.

My first wife was raped at the age of eight by her father and it haunted her until she decided at the age of fifty four to end it.

Mr Evans has served his time and is now entitled to find work and continue his life. But surely natural justice says not as a high profile, well paid professional footballer. Unpaid charity work would be more suited?

I know where you are coming from but I have to strongly disagree with that, Murder is murder you've ended someones life, there is no chance to move on and it can distroy familys,

 

not that I'm defending rape, that in itself is a awful crime and one where mandaroty castration would solve it,

[cidered abroad]

I know where you are coming from but I have to strongly disagree with that, Murder is murder you've ended someones life, there is no chance to move on and it can distroy familys,

not that I'm defending rape, that in itself is a awful crime and one where mandaroty castration would solve it,

Sorry, I was not trying to make light of murder and totally acknowledge that murder and all forms of physical abuse involve many more than the immediate victim. As you rightly say, family's lives are soured and in many cases, destroyed by such acts.

[Monkeh]

Sorry, I was not trying to make light of murder and totally acknowledge that murder and all forms of physical abuse involve many more than the immediate victim. As you rightly say, family's lives are soured and in many cases, destroyed by such acts.

I didn't think you were, I did get your point you were making,

[Dollymarie]

You didn't want Brooker or Orr here when they played?

 

 

I personally think the crime has to be taken into account and whether remorse is generally shown,

In Brooker and Orr's case there was a great deal of remorse,

In Evans case there isn't,  if it get overturned on appeal what he did was still very wrong in my eyes,

 

Exactly this.  They showed remorse and admitted their guilt.  Plus a drunken fight is very different to rape.  As I said, a serious crime and I wouldn't want them here.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

So now being mugged in the street is on a level with being raped? That because one person shows hypocrisy re Mike Tyson the rest of us are band-wagon jumpers for suggesting Ched Evans should be denighed his previously privileged life? That a mutual passing of ships in an alcohol heavy environment is the same as calculated rape? - the judge and dury didn't agree.

This is from usually sensible posters. Think City need to lose so a sense of normality and sanity can return.

 

Now- be fair- that is not remotely what I said .

 

Just about any one sentence in my post if taken out of context could be misconstrued. My point was about proportion and the inequity of mob rule.

 

I have made my position quite clear on this thread and more so the last one.

 

I might just suggest you're playing to the gallery....

[WTFiGO!?!]

Now- be fair- that is not remotely what I said .

 

Just about any one sentence in my post if taken out of context could be misconstrued. My point was about proportion and the inequity of mob rule.

 

I have made my position quite clear on this thread and more so the last one.

 

I might just suggest you're playing to the gallery....

Would I do a thing like that? [insert angle emoticon]

To be fair, in this thread before I did question the girl's lack of responsibility in getting so shitfaced that she leaves herself vulnerable to such a crime.

Appropriately, when I was younger I was twice violently mugged, once at knive point. Certainly on one of the occasions the question was raised as to what the **** I was thinking putting myself in such a vulnerable situation in the first place. I have now become far more vigilant and responsible but that is beside the point.

I am not psychologically effected in any comparable way to the people I have known who have been victims of sex crime. There is something absolutely vile an abhorrent about sex crime and even in prison, sex criminals are at the bottom of the pecking order.

I mainly, though, took objection to being called a band-wagon jumper for being part of the majority who think convicted rapists should be vilified in football.

[Monkeh]

Would I do a thing like that? [insert angle emoticon]

To be fair, in this thread before I did question the girl's lack of responsibility in getting so shitfaced that she leaves herself vulnerable to such a crime.

Appropriately, when I was younger I was twice violently mugged, once at knive point. Certainly on one of the occasions the question was raised as to what the **** I was thinking putting myself in such a vulnerable situation in the first place. I have now become far more vigilant and responsible but that is beside the point.

I am not psychologically effected in any comparable way to the people I have known who have been victims of sex crime. There is something absolutely vile an abhorrent about sex crime and even in prison, sex criminals are at the bottom of the pecking order.

I mainly, though, took objection to being called a band-wagon jumper for being part of the majority who think convicted rapists should be vilified in football.

While i do agree slightly with that, a real man or gentleman will make sure that girl gets home instead of taking advantage of them,

[LondonBristolian]

You say that but she once tweeted:

"Just bumped into Mike Tyson in the hotel lobby as I was randomly talking about him! I chickened out on asking for a photo... Damn ;-)"

She has very strong views on Ched Evans' case and that's fair enough, and fair play to her for resigning but slightly hypocritical to tweet almost admiration for someone with the same conviction?

 

It's not necessarily hypocritcal.  She apologised once it was pointed out. She would have been very young when Mike Tyson was convicted - she genuinely might not have rememebered his conviction.  And, from memory, hasn't Tyson shown remorse, which at least makes it slightly different to Evans?

[Jesus]

She looks fine here! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1127850/Surveillance-drunken-girl-allegedly-raped-Ched-Evans.html

[Super]

She looks fine here! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1127850/Surveillance-drunken-girl-allegedly-raped-Ched-Evans.html

 

Tells you nothing.

[Monkeh]

looking fine and being fine are two completely different things, I look fine and can still walk quite well when I'm wasted, but I don't know what the **** I'm doing

[Sir Colby-Tit]

I just had a look at Ched Evan's website & there are some interesting things on there, like the fact the girl involved deleted all her facebook messages to her mates around the time the incident happened, and tweets bragging about how she would spend any cash gained.

 

I don't suppose anyone except those there at the time will ever know the whole truth, but I can't help feeling that Evans might have been stitched up here.

 

In any event, I feel he should be allowed to resurrect his career after serving his time, and mob justice shouldn't be allowed to prevail.

[Monkeh]

I just had a look at Ched Evan's website & there are some interesting things on there, like the fact the girl involved deleted all her facebook messages to her mates around the time the incident happened, and tweets bragging about how she would spend any cash gained.

 

I don't suppose anyone except those there at the time will ever know the whole truth, but I can't help feeling that Evans might have been stitched up here.

 

In any event, I feel he should be allowed to resurrect his career after serving his time, and mob justice shouldn't be allowed to prevail.

is there any proof of that or are you simply taking Evans word over the victims?

[Sir Colby-Tit]

is there any proof of that or are you simply taking Evans word over the victims?

Have a look yourself

 

http://chedevans.com/

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Have a look yourself

 

http://chedevans.com/

 

if he was stitched up it was by his original defence team, who if you believe the propaganda on this site, royally ****** up at ****** at the original trial, by missing all of these 'new' revelations and of course not having the wit to get his story straight with Mcdonald didn't help a lot, I suppose.

[Monkeh]

Have a look yourself

 

http://chedevans.com/

Thats just one side trying to clear his name,

he was found guilty in a court of law while his co defendant was aquitted, he was denied an appeal by a 3 judge panel at the court of appeal which upheld his convition,

he then changed his legal team,

 

The facts are he's a convict trying to change peoples mind on the advice of his legal team who want to overturn his conviction so they can earn their cash,

[sodburyred]

How can anyone look at a completely biased website for evidence is beyond me. The Judge and Jury would have sat through every shred of evidence. Having been on Jury duty last year for a fairly big case I was shocked by how much detail they go into. They would of had witnesses and a run down of every stage of his night in the build up to the attack. They would of known how he was acting and what sort of person he was on the night.

 

In a crime that is notoriously hard to prove guilt, the Jury find him unanimously guilty. That says all you need to know. 

The victim hasn't sold her story or courted the lime light but has had to go into hiding 2 separate times. Why are people sticking up for him?